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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 30. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by baseball55 on March 27, 2014, at 20:09:06
Okay. So I have been living with my husband for 36 years, my entire adult life - and his. I found out he is cheating on me and he said, when I confronted him, some pretty harsh and hurtful things. We went to see my proc (the only person he would agree to meet with) and it was horrible. My p-doc, who is sympathetic to my husband after all I put him through with a deep, dark depression that lasted almost four years, was shocked by him. Said he was narcissistic and self-absorbed and seemed to be oblivious to the hurt he caused me.
I went and stayed in a short-term rental for a week and am now back and feeling I need to leave permanently. But he is confusing me. He is loving and kind in many ways, more so than he ever has been. He doesn't want me to leave. But he doesn't want to change his behavior either. Everything is fine for him, but not for me.
I'm lost. Do I leave a person with whom I've spent my entire adult life, with whom I have adult children we both love? Or do I stay in what feels an intolerable situation?
I don't know what to do. The financial issues overwhelm me. Together, we are in good shape. Separately, we are broke.
Posted by alexandra_k on March 27, 2014, at 21:18:14
In reply to divorce?, posted by baseball55 on March 27, 2014, at 20:09:06
well... i don't know.
i have come to see the sense in the notion of arranged marriage. the idea being that once the endorphin rush fades... the passion... what is left is... compatibility or not... friendship or not... the ability to come to a mutually acceptable compromise on various things or not...
some women do decide to put up with cheating. others don't. some do - but grudgingly. they aren't happy about it. others don't mind so much. sometimes their husbands turn out to be total *ssh*l*s in not being accepting of their decision to pursue alternative romantic relationships at that point... lol... othertimes some sort of mututal discretion... keeping up appearance thing seems to sort of work... i guess it is an individual thing, i mean to say.
in ways... i think guys and girls do think / feel differently about sex. it means something different - i mean. i don't deal with hypocracy of okay for me but not for you... but aside from that... there are evolutionary explanations at this point... that sorta do make some sort of sense... but whatever...
the financial thing is hard. i don't know what to say about that. that was what sent me into my first episode, honestly. the need to end a relationship and i had no idea how to survive with the loss of it. only found myself out of it by way of hospital... then supported living... i'm sorry things are hard.
Posted by gadchik on March 28, 2014, at 6:26:46
In reply to divorce?, posted by baseball55 on March 27, 2014, at 20:09:06
Hello, my mother in law just went thru this over the past months. Been married 33 yrs, and her hubby decided to get a girlfriend, and wanted her to accept it,and finally, she just couldn't take it anymore, it was eating her up. She kicked him out, filed for divorce, and he agreed to all her financial requests. She was quite broken for a time. We worried about her a lot. She thought she was going crazy for awhile...but then, things got better. She is happier w/o him. She looks wonderful, glows almost. Its a very difficult decision to make, and I wish u peace, in the end, whatever you decide.
Posted by gadchik on March 28, 2014, at 6:40:18
In reply to divorce?, posted by baseball55 on March 27, 2014, at 20:09:06
And I want to tell you my own story, which ends quite differently from my mother in law's. After 11 yrs of marriage, my hubby cheated. Ive been married now 22yrs to same man. I went thru hell and back during that period. I ranted and raved, thought I was losing my mind, but I kept myself in check, mostly because my son was 11 yr old at the time. Financial aspect weighed heavily on me, and I was still very much in love as well. I decided to stay in my marriage, but made it clear that I would put up with no cheating, no girlfriend. I do realize, Im at risk of this happening again. My son is now in college, so if it happened again, I would end the marriage, just because hubby saw how much it hurt me, and do that to me again? No way would I stay. So, over the yrs since, we've been close, happy, make sure to do fun things together, try to understand each other, compromise. Im in love, still. So, that's a diff ending and I hope to always be with my husband.
Posted by Partlycloudy on March 28, 2014, at 7:11:40
In reply to divorce?, posted by baseball55 on March 27, 2014, at 20:09:06
Oh, this sounds so familiar, except for the infidelity issue. My husband is "just" a jealous, antisocial person, and very controlling. He's now in therapy. We faced the same dilemma of financial insecurity for both of us if divorce was the choice.
Our compromise so far has been for me to carve out my own space and private time as I deem necessary. I realize you have a serious issue facing you with the extra person involved!!!
It has been helping me to separate the problems as what he has to deal with, and what I am dealing with. (I think I got off easy.)
Feel free to babble mail me if you want to Talk about it.
PC
Posted by Phillipa on March 28, 2014, at 9:54:58
In reply to Re: divorce? » baseball55, posted by Partlycloudy on March 28, 2014, at 7:11:40
I do not envy you at all. Been there done that. At first the divorce was fine as I did have another man who I met shortly after the decision to divorce had been made by me. My ex also wanted to continue the marriage but still have his girlfriend (who has been his wife now for a good 15 years or more). So since I had known something was going to happen I had gone to RN school, and had a way to support both myself and kids. And having another man who supported me through it was fine. Now years later I wish somehow we could have worked it through as we have the three kids together all grown and miss the old memories. You have a difficult situation. I am deeply sorry for this. Each situation is so different and the people involved also. Would your husband agree to not seeing this woman ever again and agree to start all over again? If so I might give it another try. Phillipa
Posted by Willful on March 29, 2014, at 13:56:23
In reply to divorce?, posted by baseball55 on March 27, 2014, at 20:09:06
Hi baseball,
I'm so sorry to hear that you're going through such a grueling experience, especially with your decision somewhat clouded by the financial issues,
I wish I could even begin to advise you, none of us can do more than try to listen while you sort this out.
Ne can really solve such a dilemma of love or lack of love and abandonment from the outside.--even if we were there, it would be so driven by our own personal experience, values, and needs that we would be doing you a terrible disservice. Plus, in the end, you'll have to live with any choice-- with starting over, with him or alone-- especially in difficult economic circumstances.
But it might help if you wrote out what you're thinking and feeling-- either to post here, or not, as it feels best. Because I"m sure your mind is in a whirl of comflicting thoughts and feelings-- some rational, some not-- but just too much to encounter rationally at first.
If your husband is being kind-- but thinks it's okay to continue the affair, while you stay with him, I have to quesiton how deep this kindness is-- and whether it isn't manipulation, -- and I wonder how long-lived it would be should you stay.
You probably could benefit from talking to him about how to resolve the financial issues-- as the groundwork for moving on to the emotional ones. And maybe you can talk with your pdoc more intensively until things become more clear.
Sounds like your husband has an agenda-- so I hope you can get clear on what's best for you-- because it may be hard to untantle when you're in such a conflicted state.
I have a friend going through a very painful breakup-- and after watching her struggle to a somewhat better place, I have a lot of hope that you will get though this--. and hope that you'll move into a better situation, and find your answers soon,
Posted by Angela2 on March 29, 2014, at 19:24:31
In reply to divorce?, posted by baseball55 on March 27, 2014, at 20:09:06
Hey Baseball, I'm sorry that this has happened. Your husband is a jerk for cheating on you. I'm not in the same situation, but I know what it's like to find it hard to leave a situation because of the emotional ties, and you don't want to feel pain. Hugs to you, in your time of need. Angela
Posted by baseball55 on March 29, 2014, at 20:49:19
In reply to Re: divorce?, posted by Angela2 on March 29, 2014, at 19:24:31
My husband and I spent three hours talking tonight. This is all so sad and painful. I have not been a perfect wife and he had not been a perfect husband. Yet we were perfect parents, or as close to perfect as parents can be. We have made one another unhappy, have stymied one another because of our emotional limitations. He was kind, loving, talked through this. But unwilling to change. So what do I do? I can't figure out a workable budget that would allow me not to live on rice and beans and never travel - even to visit my daughter - or eat out or whatever. I am so sad about this. Sad, sad, sad. Boston is so expensive. I earn a good income, but not good enough to have a comfortable life in Boston. I can't move, because my job is here. Ughhh! I am so confused and conflicted right now.
Thank you all for your support.
Posted by alexandra_k on March 29, 2014, at 23:00:12
In reply to Re: divorce?, posted by baseball55 on March 29, 2014, at 20:49:19
if he isn't going to change... he isn't going to change. there isn't really anything that you can do about that.
is there some stuff that you might want that he isn't so keen on? i mean... one option is basically to continue to live together... as house mates. which bedroom do you want? etc...
you might be surprised at how you manage to adapt to less money. in the sense that whenever i find myself with more i wonder where on earth it goes... having less money can be easier to deal with than you might think... but it is a bitter pill to swallow, i hear you on that.
Posted by baseball55 on March 30, 2014, at 19:40:31
In reply to Re: divorce?, posted by alexandra_k on March 29, 2014, at 23:00:12
> you might be surprised at how you manage to adapt to less money. in the sense that whenever i find myself with more i wonder where on earth it goes... having less money can be easier to deal with than you might think... but it is a bitter pill to swallow, i hear you on that.
>
>
>I know I got by on way less money for years. But I've been doing budgets. Everything is so expensive here - much more so than it was when I was younger. Housing and utilities will eat up half my after-tax income. Wi-fi is expensive. Cell phones too. Can I get by without either of these?My husband makes twice as much as I do. I told him I would want alimony - not a lot, just enough to make the numbers work. He became angry and hostile and threatened to quit his job rather than pay alimony. I had thought that, at the very least, we could manage to separate amicably But apparently not.
>
Posted by Phillipa on March 30, 2014, at 20:16:08
In reply to Re: divorce? » alexandra_k, posted by baseball55 on March 30, 2014, at 19:40:31
I'm sorry. I don't what to say. Phillipa
Posted by alexandra_k on March 31, 2014, at 5:44:44
In reply to Re: divorce? » alexandra_k, posted by baseball55 on March 30, 2014, at 19:40:31
But you get the master bedroom - right? I mean, if he is going to sleep around, that is only fair. You make him get tested? For the both of you? That is only fair, too - right?
Ahahahahaha how much you think international communications costs in the *southern hemisphere*?
I know, it is all relative... But, again, it might just surprise you how well you can adjust... Housing and utilities simply will... That's how come they get to be 'necessities'. Things like cable and phone and travel are more negotiable... Not just black and white... Sometimes it is more a matter of cutting back / seeking out cheaper plans... Isn't there pretty much free wifi almost everywhere? Do you pay when people call you? Things like food are pretty negotiable, too.... There is a saying... Something along the lines of 'needs must'. That's how come more money often doesn't translate into improved quality of life. One feels richer so one simply loses money due to less scrupulous planning. Less money *is* hard, I do understand that. I just think that it often turns out to not be quite as important as people fear it is, though. But perhaps my priorities are different... I don't know...
What is the price / cost of freedom?
?
Posted by gadchik on March 31, 2014, at 5:59:16
In reply to Re: divorce?, posted by alexandra_k on March 31, 2014, at 5:44:44
If it's a situation that is eating you up, driving u insane, I would kick him out first, worry about money later. However, I know that worry about the money well. You're in a very tough spot. Anyone that's married could get into same situation at any time. But you must keep urself well, keep ur wits about u. I remember feeling as if I were on the verge of sliding down a mountain, grasping at tree limbs to hold me steady. I had no one to talk to about it.
Posted by baseball55 on March 31, 2014, at 19:18:07
In reply to Re: divorce?, posted by alexandra_k on March 31, 2014, at 5:44:44
Things like: the only housing I can afford is in less desirable areas with no public transportation. Which means I need a car, though my husband does not.
I just took the car to the dealer for, what I thought would be, a simple issue. It turned out to be $2500 worth of repairs. With our current expense structure, this is a drag, but not devastating. On my own, it would break me financially. And I will need a car. Insurance alone is $200/month.
Posted by baseball55 on March 31, 2014, at 19:25:40
In reply to Re: divorce? » alexandra_k, posted by baseball55 on March 30, 2014, at 19:40:31
then there's the $1200 dental bill, even after insurance. I have a whole head of rotted teeth. years of going to dental school clinics -- the only dental care I could barely afford - made everything worse -- extractions that should have been root-canaled, root-canels left without posts or crowns until the tooth deteriorated and needed to be extracted (because I couldn't afford the post and crown). On and on. The big bills never end. I can see how I can manage to cut back and afford the routine bills. But the $500 there and $1200 there.
Don't see how I can manage.
Posted by gadchik on April 1, 2014, at 6:33:10
In reply to Re: divorce?, posted by baseball55 on March 31, 2014, at 19:25:40
I hear ya, baseball. You just tell yourself, you'll get through this, over and over. Am I understanding that he wants to be able to have a girlfriend and be married too? A lot of men see nothing wrong in this. Most women, horrified by it. Seems as if you only have the choice to stay and put up with his selfishness, or leave and be financially wrecked. Very difficult. In your mind, do you really think he'd quit his job to avoid alimony, or could this be a tactic to get you to stay?
Posted by baseball55 on April 1, 2014, at 19:53:39
In reply to Re: divorce? » baseball55, posted by gadchik on April 1, 2014, at 6:33:10
> I hear ya, baseball. You just tell yourself, you'll get through this, over and over. Am I understanding that he wants to be able to have a girlfriend and be married too? A lot of men see nothing wrong in this. Most women, horrified by it. Seems as if you only have the choice to stay and put up with his selfishness, or leave and be financially wrecked. Very difficult. In your mind, do you really think he'd quit his job to avoid alimony, or could this be a tactic to get you to stay?
It's worse than just his cheating, but I don't want to get into all the details. It's not a tolerable situation for me. I don't think he'd quit his job (biting off his nose to spite his face, as the saying goes), but I do think he might bankrupt us both in legal fees. I was surprised by this actually.
When we met with my p-doc and I told him I would probably want to separate, he said he would want everything to end amicably and not get into money conflicts and remain friends, etc. But, as soon as I mentioned alimony (as well as splitting all the 401k money 50-50), he became incensed.
Just $600 a month in alimony would put me over the top financially. He makes twice what I do and can easily afford it.
It's all so ugly. Not what I would have expected after 36 years together.
Posted by gadchik on April 2, 2014, at 7:34:47
In reply to Re: divorce?, posted by baseball55 on April 1, 2014, at 19:53:39
Def, not what you'd expect after so much time with a person. I hope this will end in a way that can allow you to live securely and then find a way to thrive. You will have to find a new normal. Ive thought of this many times, what would my plan be should something cause the failure of a 20+yr marriage? And when Ive ventured to think of it...I feel sooo destabilized, like I'd go insane, but I have to consider that it could happen. I would just have to carry on, stay sane, and find a new and diff life. Im thinking of you.
Posted by Partlycloudy on April 2, 2014, at 13:48:05
In reply to Re: divorce? » baseball55, posted by gadchik on April 2, 2014, at 7:34:47
> Def, not what you'd expect after so much time with a person. I hope this will end in a way that can allow you to live securely and then find a way to thrive. You will have to find a new normal. Ive thought of this many times, what would my plan be should something cause the failure of a 20+yr marriage? And when Ive ventured to think of it...I feel sooo destabilized, like I'd go insane, but I have to consider that it could happen. I would just have to carry on, stay sane, and find a new and diff life. Im thinking of you.
Me too.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 2, 2014, at 15:06:49
In reply to Re: divorce?, posted by Partlycloudy on April 2, 2014, at 13:48:05
I'd talk to a lawyer about what seems likely with respect to asset splitting / alimony. If he isn't planning on giving you much in the way of anything -- then you don't have anything to lose with respect to worrying about lawyers fees etc.
Money brings out the worst in people. Always.
It sounds like you basically have made a decision... It is just about logistics...
It is worth figuring transport costs into accommodation. The *true cost* of accommodation, if you like. Cars are very expensive to run. The money I'd save on having a large commute in I would end up spending on public transport or on fuel, parking, insurance, depreciation etc etc etc. Not to mention the time taken to commute and the commuter rage which would take years off my life...
How do most people do it? They make payment plans. Pay things off over a couple / few years - depending on the expense. I think dentists and mechanics etc can have good plans (and you aren't likely to be a sucker) since their services are fairly necessary.
Posted by baseball55 on April 2, 2014, at 19:49:33
In reply to Re: divorce?, posted by alexandra_k on April 2, 2014, at 15:06:49
> It is worth figuring transport costs into accommodation. The *true cost* of accommodation, if you like. Cars are very expensive to run. The money I'd save on having a large commute in I would end up spending on public transport or on fuel, parking, insurance, depreciation etc etc etc. Not to mention the time taken to commute and the commuter rage which would take years off my life...
In Boston, any housing on public transportation and with access to stores, etc, on foot, is unaffordable, much more costly than the additional costs of owning a car.
As far as payment plans go, one thing I don't want to do is build up consumer debt. Been there, done that. The monthly payments soon eat up your monthly earnings and you can never get out from under. I want to put aside some of the equity in our home as savings - rather than use it all as a downpayment, even if this means a higher monthly mortgage - so I have a cushion and can avoid building up debts. That's also why I want some alimony. It would give me enough money every month so I could set some aside for large, less predictable outlays.
It's all weird. I've haven't had a separate bank account or credit card for 34 years. Everything is joint. I need to open a bank account and apply for a new credit card. Little things like that. All the utilities are in my name, so we need to redo all that.
In the meantime, when we're not on this subject, we get along beautifully. In fact, he has never been as sweet and affectionate as he has been over the last few months, since all this started.
Thanks to all of you. Your support is really helpful.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 2, 2014, at 20:34:19
In reply to Re: divorce?, posted by baseball55 on April 2, 2014, at 19:49:33
you are very smart. much smarter than me about money matters... sounds like you are figuring things out... sounds like... things haven't really been that great between you guys for a while now? you seemed to move pretty swiftly into wanting to leave and figuring out those logistics... he might be feeling better now that he's been open about things. that he isn't being deceptive anymore. i think that on some level all but the most psychopathic don't like being two-faced... it takes it's toll...
really talk to a lawyer about what seems likely... to help you figure / plan logistics. of course you might end up settling out of court for a bit less (and a lot less court costs) but a genuine threat of whatever can be most helpful in getting the ball rolling in that direction...
Posted by baseball55 on April 2, 2014, at 21:57:12
In reply to Re: divorce?, posted by alexandra_k on April 2, 2014, at 20:34:19
> you are very smart. much smarter than me about money matters... sounds like you are figuring things out... sounds like... things haven't really been that great between you guys for a while now? you seemed to move pretty swiftly into wanting to leave and figuring out those logistics... he might be feeling better now that he's been open about things. that he isn't being deceptive anymore. i think that on some level all but the most psychopathic don't like being two-faced... it takes it's toll...
Good point. Hadn't thought of it that way, but it makes sense.
>
> really talk to a lawyer about what seems likely... to help you figure / plan logistics. of course you might end up settling out of court for a bit less (and a lot less court costs) but a genuine threat of whatever can be most helpful in getting the ball rolling in that direction...
>I think we need to meet with a lawyer together so he can understand what the courts would probably rule. This is a community property state -- everything split down the middle, no-fault divorce. Alimony likely given length of marriage and difference in earnings. If a lawyer explained this, he might settle down.
But after that, everyone tells me we should hire a mediator to negotiate final terms. Less expensive, less conflictual. Then hire a lawyer jointly to file all the paperwork.
Having two lawyers - one apiece - to conflict and negotiate and represent us in hostile court proceedings - is a great way to eat through our savings.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 2, 2014, at 22:52:40
In reply to Re: divorce? » alexandra_k, posted by baseball55 on April 2, 2014, at 21:57:12
I think part of the thing about money is that nobody likes to feel ripped off / taken advantage of / like one is being taken for a fool.
The idea about you both sitting down with the same lawyer sounds to me like a great one. That way the lawyer can indeed convey what would likely happen / be considered fair. That never occurred to me, actually, I was thinking more that each would have one to represent their own interests. Which sounds like a... Really great way to chew through everything in lawyers fees... Not in either of your best interests for that to happen.
A knowledgeable 3rd party independent seems like the ideal way to go. To at least start from there.
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