![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 7 to 31 of 36. Go back in thread:
Posted by Greg on June 16, 2003, at 17:21:31
In reply to Re: I'm scared, please help, posted by kara lynne on June 16, 2003, at 16:34:09
Kara,
We’ve never spoken before, but I have read your posts and you don’t come across as hateful or hideous to me. These types of fights where one blames the other for their lot in life can be nasty to say the least. You can rest assured that you aren’t to blame for the bad choices he’s made in his life. Quite simply, you don’t have that power. But it is easy for him to make you the scapegoat, especially if he thinks you will buy into it.
It always hurts to lose a relationship, it’s never easy if there was love there. But it sounds like to me that this one is poisoning you, and that’s never a good thing. I’m hoping that you have a safe, secure place where you can go, hopefully with a friend or family where you can get some unconditional love that you deserve. I doubt that you’re the bad person that you think you are, but when we’re told that long enough, we begin to believe it. I have a feeling that you’re one of the many loving and caring people on this board who wouldn’t hesitate a moment to reach out her hand to someone who needed help.
Kara, you have important things in your life that you need and want to do. Step away from these distractions, however painful that might be, and take care of you. Remember that no matter what happens, in order to survive our disorders, we have to make our own well-being the number one priority in our lives.
The next time you look in the mirror, try to see the person that the others here see, a worthwhile human being. You have to see with better eyes. You’re worth it.
Wishing you all the best,
Greg
Posted by Dinah on June 16, 2003, at 19:06:07
In reply to I'm scared, please help, posted by kara lynne on June 16, 2003, at 11:53:30
Kara Lynne, what he said spoke volumes about him, but very little about you. Please don't believe what was spoken in anger by a vitriolic soul. You deserve so much better.
Posted by wendy b. on June 16, 2003, at 21:16:45
In reply to I'm scared, please help, posted by kara lynne on June 16, 2003, at 11:53:30
Kara,
Pardon me for butting in, but I have read your posts, and have been feeling bad for you for weeks, so I feel I may have some words to help you feel better - at least I hope so...
For people like your BF, just substitute pronouns: everytime he said "you," he really meant "me," etcetera.
I know it's kind of a platitude, but it seems these people have so little self-regard or self-worth that they lash out at the person who was supposed to "be" and "do" everything for them (because they have so little to give back). So as Greg says: his remarks speak volumes about himself, but have very little -- or even nothing -- to do with you. (I know, it seems like they do, after all, he's talking to you! but they don't!) The REAL you, the Kara Lynne who is supportive and kind to many people here, and I'm sure to others in your life.
I used to do this myself (lash out), before meds and therapy. I work hard not to any more... The Blame Game always makes the other person the bad guy ("You have made me feel this way!"), rather than each person accepting responsibility for the way they themselves feel, and making the effort to do something about it if the way that one feels isn't good. Far easier to see the things the other person does wrong than what we ourselves are doing. And he is just blaming you for his own feelings of inadequacy... nothing more, nothing less. Don't buy into it...
Cooked for him more?? C'mon, this is just a raft of bulls___. (Pardon my blankety-blanks!)
You are not, nor will you ever be, hateful and hideous, and you will find love and you will get all the good things you deserve - what he says about all that is just projection (and hateful in ITSELF). So, thank god, he has exposed his true nature, and there are no more illusions you could ever have about this guy. You are too good for him, and he will never know it, but it's not your problem any more. And in case you don't remember how horrible you were feeling being with him, just go back and read some of your posts of the last few weeks - it seems very clear...
Still, I'm so sorry. It never feels good to have this kind of thing happen, and a relationship lost is something you have to grieve, and it takes time to feel better. Just listen to the wise sages here on PSB, and you will be all right, and remember that studying for your boards is top priority. Letting him win this (i.e., if you end up internalizing the crap he's thrown at you) would be a huge injustice. I wish you the best of everything, and hang on, ok?
Wendy
Posted by Emme on June 16, 2003, at 22:44:29
In reply to I'm scared, please help, posted by kara lynne on June 16, 2003, at 11:53:30
Kara Lynne,
I was just about to write exactly what Dinah wrote when I saw her post. She is right.
He is cruel - what he said to you should never be said to anyone. He attacked you about things you feel sensitive about, and even wanted you out in the middle of the night!! Nothing this guy says deserves any credibility. I know it's hard, but fight your best not to internalize what he said about you. YOU DO DESERVE LOVE AND ALL GOOD THINGS. (I'm seething on your behalf.)
Emme
Posted by wendy b. on June 17, 2003, at 7:05:46
In reply to Re: I'm scared, please help » kara lynne, posted by Emme on June 16, 2003, at 22:44:29
Emme & Kara,
> He is cruel - what he said to you should never be said to anyone. He attacked you about things you feel sensitive about, and even wanted you out in the middle of the night!!
Yes, that is the other atrocity, and I forgot to mention it... When they go for your jugular by listing the "faults" you have explained to them as"illness" (not that they get it), that is the WORST thing any significant other or family member can do. The absolute worst thing, playing off your own insecurities, the ones you've shared in a moment of intimacy or difficulty. i.e., you might say, wanting reassurance: "I withdraw when I'm depressed..." And then they attack on that point. It's been done to me soooo many times, by experts in the field of projection and lashing out...
>Nothing this guy says deserves any credibility. I know it's hard, but fight your best not to internalize what he said about you. YOU DO DESERVE LOVE AND ALL GOOD THINGS. (I'm seething on your behalf.)
Christ, so am I. No one deserves this kind of cruelty. I'm just so glad he has "revealed" himself for what he is, and you can move on in your life.
best wishes, and have a good Tuesday, Kara Lynne...
Wendy
Posted by Giget on June 17, 2003, at 7:16:25
In reply to Re: I'm scared, please help » Emme, posted by wendy b. on June 17, 2003, at 7:05:46
Kara,
I hope you are feeling better today. It is going to take a while, but take it hour by hour.It was wronge of him to take your insurcurities and put them against you. It does not matter that you listened on the phone, the fact is you heard what he felt of you. We look to these people to be our support, to be someone we are so close to that you can tell anything. You tell them your fears, hopes, dreams and faults.
It is completely arrigant for him to talk to you that way. I am sure you can pick him apart and just do things to hurt him, but you are a better person. You take what he said to you about himself personally and would not hurt him by it. Yes we all have times we get angry and say things we did not mean, but this is over that limit, to be talking to someone else about it!
I had a wonderful session with my therpist last night.... but that is another thread....
Take some time to do something for yourself... get a pedicure, take a walk to your favoirte spot, meditaton... anything that will make you smile, and realize you are a good person. Everyone has flaws... that is life.
Take care, and email if you need anything!
Posted by kara lynne on June 17, 2003, at 12:08:33
In reply to Re: I'm scared, please help, posted by Giget on June 17, 2003, at 7:16:25
Thank you all so very much. I will write more later when I'm out of the house, and he's not around. He came in at 5am this morning and we haven't spoken.
I am leaving now to look for an apt. I am trying with all I have not to ruminate in the horrible things he said about me yesterday. I told him it was a wake up call to hear what he really thought of me and he just threw it back on me saying I get angry too, and he's sure I talk to my friends the same way. I have never spoken such cruel words to him or ripped apart his entire character to anyone else.
It is so hard for me to let go of trying to get him to see me differently. The person he described on the phone yesterday was a pathetic loser. I keep trying to see how that is a projection, because he is so successful at work. But listening to you all and my counselor I am beginning to understand. There are other areas where I guess he is in denial. Still it's hard, because he's picked on areas I feel so damaged in. But why would he have to be so heartless about them anyway, if he truly loved me? The last thing I heard him discussing was that I was definitely not an asset to his work. He said I might very well be a deficit, but he had to consider that for a moment--surely I was not an asset.
I'm sorry to be redundant. He just had a laundry list so long and devastating, down to the most personal moments we have together. I guess it was neccessary to hear so that I don't consider staying like I have too long already.
Again, I am just so grateful to you all for responding.
Posted by giget on June 17, 2003, at 12:27:19
In reply to Re: I'm scared, please help, posted by kara lynne on June 17, 2003, at 12:08:33
Kara you have to understand that no matter how many times you explain to him how you feel, or how many different ways you approach it he will not understand.
It is not a problem with you not communicating how you feel, he will always see it the same.
That took alot of time and money with the theripst to understand and believe.... You will get there, hang in sis....
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on June 17, 2003, at 13:59:46
In reply to I'm scared, please help, posted by kara lynne on June 16, 2003, at 11:53:30
> Here is the problem. I believe it. Somewhere deep down I believe every horrible thing he said to me.
----------------Yes, that is exactly the problem. Consider that it's possible that you chose this particular guy because he reinforces views that you hold about yourself. It's not a concious decision, but it makes sense in a way. If you hold X to be true, you're not going to believe someone who doesn't, and you'll respect the person who agrees with you.
Much like experiencing problems with drugs or alcohol, it might make sense for you to take this opportunity to abstain from dating for a while, and get your bearings (so to speak). Surround yourself with more positive people, such as those on PB. Work with your therapist, if you have one. Identify the relationships in your life that have contributed to your harsh self-identity and recognize that they were lying, and probably in pain themselves. Above all, though, you likely need to culture a more realistic perception of yourself before you can be in a position to have an equal relationship with someone.
And yes, drop that guy with conviction.
Posted by kara lynne on June 17, 2003, at 18:31:44
In reply to Re: I'm scared, please help » kara lynne, posted by Eddie Sylvano on June 17, 2003, at 13:59:46
for an apartment today. Everyone is telling me to move immediately, even though I have this test coming up in a week and a half. I do not see how I will have the strength emotionally and physically to get it all together, but if they ok my application I guess I will start the process.
I was told not to say anything to my ex, write him a note if anything and say I would be out the 1st. My name is on the lease, but I was told just not to pay any attention to that right now and let him deal with it.
Sickenengly still, I want him to love me again and make it better somehow. I am only saying that so that I don't let my feelings interfere with moving foreward. I'm so scared I won't, because I've let this go on so long. It's just my pattern to stay, and he's banking on that--I overheard him say yesterday that he thinks I'm too afraid to really move.
In the meantime I don't know what I'll do when I see him. If he says, "We need to talk", or anything like that. My counselor says not to engage at all--do you really think that's possible? It's like a nightmare being there right now. I don't know how I'll get through this move, but I'm going to try.
Posted by kara lynne on June 17, 2003, at 20:27:55
In reply to Re: I'm scared, please help, posted by wendy b. on June 16, 2003, at 21:16:45
Wendy,
I just wanted to tell you how much I appreciate hearing from you. I often feel connected to the things you say, and I am so glad you took the time to say them to me now.I will read your's and all these posts over and over to try to get through this. I'm still in disbelief. Right now I'm hoping I'll get this apartment and be able to move forward without engaging in any more battle. The trick is getting through these next couple of weeks, and I'm just going to have to take it moment by moment.
Thank you for your strong, clear and caring words.
Posted by kara lynne on June 17, 2003, at 20:38:43
In reply to Re: I'm scared, please help » kara lynne, posted by Greg on June 16, 2003, at 17:21:31
Greg,
I have been thinking of how to respond to you and feeling awkward about doing it. I was really touched by your post. It meant something special to me in all of this, that it came from an intelligent and insightful man. It comforts me to know that you are out there.Maybe one day I will feel deserving enough to be in a healthy relationship. I'm dismayed that it has taken me this long, and that once again I've found myself in such ruins. But I just wanted to let you know that your words were beautiful and healing, and I thank you for them.
Posted by kara lynne on June 17, 2003, at 20:57:47
In reply to Re: I'm scared, please help, posted by Giget on June 17, 2003, at 7:16:25
Giget,
Thank you for your supportive messages. I don't know if I will ever get over hearing him say those things about me. It's running in my head day and night, over and over. Down to the most intimate details he revealed to this stranger--I was crushed that he could stoop so low.You're right. I could launch quite a character assasanation against him, and it is very tempting. I'm a little afraid that the temptation will get the best of me and I'll find myself back in a losing battle with him. It's so hard to get that it really is an inside job. His view of me is so twisted, his perception so skewed that there really is nothing I could say or do that would ever change that. I am trying to understand that this does not really have anything to do with me, but it is so hard when he picks at all the areas I have the most fear and judgement about myself. And there is something about just taking that---walking away and knowing that that is how someone thinks of you, in the most ugly way imaginable--someone who has been telling you he loves you for the past five years. Telling you that you are the love of his life, ever since college when we first met over 20 years ago.
But the truth has been festering for a long time, and I have avoided it. I don't know if it's because I'm truly weak, or I truly believed somewhere that love would prevail. The most important thing for me now is to make sure not to let those thoughts seduce me again and keep me from making this move.
Thank you again for all your support--I have never needed it so much.
Posted by kara lynne on June 18, 2003, at 0:27:22
In reply to Wendy, posted by kara lynne on June 17, 2003, at 20:27:55
Wouldn't you know, the part about the cooking really got to me. First of all he made it sound like he cooked five course meals for us all the time, and he's rarely home. When we first moved in together I said I wanted us to cook and eat healthier, and walk more and support each other in that (I was interested in starting to cook more). But right off the bat he was coming home most nights between 2 and 6am, and we were so remote from each other I lost the desire.
In the last few months we had dinner together a couple of nights a week, usually taking in from a couple of decent places. The other night he said that by him having to bring home food or prepare it, that he was assuming a feminine role. Therefore he naturally couldn't switch over to a masculine role and feel like making love to me. He launched into a tirade about how I've never cooked one meal for him (not true) and I started crazily thinking that my not cooking was the reason for the relationship's demise. I said, "Gee, I know a beautiful woman who doesn't cook at all, and has lots of sex and is getting married, why do you think that is?" He answered, "Maybe it's because she's beautiful."
So below the belt doesn't even begin to describe it. I guess this is his way of denying the reality that he is an overweight, diabetic, virtually impotent man with an almost non-existent libido. He has never made sex or communication around it a priority in the relationship. I really tried, but he could always use how difficult the subject was for him as an excuse not to do anything about it. It was plenty difficult for me too, but his denial controlled us.
I just got a message from him. He said he was sorry for saying hurtful things to me, but he just wasn't strong enough not to. He said we needed to talk because there were some "things going on". I'm sure it's that he's moving into this gorgeous new house and he needs to tell me so I can find somewhere to go.
The final humiliation. He gets to move into this unbelievable house, because he can afford it. We had originally looked at it together when we were still thinking about living together. What I get to move into is a step up from completely depressing. It just seems like he gets rewarded, somehow. For him it's all about the image. He can have his people over and impress them all and get some hot babe to cook for for all his off beat, artsy, Hollywood business contacts. I will be obsessively watching mindless television and doing nothing with my life.
That he did this to me less than two weeks before my exam blows my mind once more. Now he's trying to be civil, but I still don't know how to react. Mostly I don't want to go into desperation when he tells me he's going, which I know he is counting on. He likes to leave his women whimpering in his wake.
Whew. Didn't foresee the rant. Thanks for letting me carry on.
Posted by wendy b. on June 18, 2003, at 7:48:21
In reply to Wendy, also...., posted by kara lynne on June 18, 2003, at 0:27:22
> Wouldn't you know, the part about the cooking really got to me.
Yeah, that was a ridiculous ruse if I ever heard one... But so, I don't know, particularly male and sexist. Remember, if you turn the situation around, i.e., if YOU were leaving and YOU said to HIM: jeeze, I think you suck and I think you're hateful, and the reason is because you never once cooked a meal for me, and I have had to change my sense of sexual selfhood because of it... (blah blah)... Now that just wouldn't ever happen, would it? Just never in a million years would a female say that to a male...
>First of all he made it sound like he cooked five course meals for us all the time, and he's rarely home.
What, he says HE cooked a lot? How can he do that if he's not home til 2 to 6 am??
>When we first moved in together I said I wanted us to cook and eat healthier, and walk more and support each other in that (I was interested in starting to cook more).
That was a good impulse, it's nice to share those things with your sig. other...
> But right off the bat he was coming home most nights between 2 and 6am, and we were so remote from each other I lost the desire.That's just unacceptable behavior. I'm sure he justified it by saying it was work-related, but how could he even think he could carry on a relationship with you (with anybody) with those kinds of hours? It's just going to make it impossible. I think you should turn it around and mention this to him when you talk... That this is a MAJOR reason the relationship failed, not YOUR supposed failings.
> In the last few months we had dinner together a couple of nights a week, usually taking in from a couple of decent places. The other night he said that by him having to bring home food or prepare it, that he was assuming a feminine role.
As we say in the business: "bull___"
> Therefore he naturally couldn't switch over to a masculine role and feel like making love to me.How the he_ does this follow? This is totally ridiculous after-the-fact justification for his behavior, i.e., inattentive and un-loving. Either you feel like making love and your libbido is healthy and in sync with your mate, or it's not. Sounds like he knows he has sexual problems, but he'd somehow like to blame you for them. Sweet.
>He launched into a tirade about how I've never cooked one meal for him (not true) and I started crazily thinking that my not cooking was the reason for the relationship's demise.
Uh oh, he got you to buy into it for a second, but wait:
>I said, "Gee, I know a beautiful woman who doesn't cook at all, and has lots of sex and is getting married, why do you think that is?"This was a great response, so you didn't actually buy into it after all...
>He answered, "Maybe it's because she's beautiful."
Low blow, totally unfair, he should have been told to go to his corner and not come out until he was ready to have a fair discussion. Like some 4-year-old in nursery school. What a total pig. Sorry, but this is just horribly cruel. (Hmmm, I can see it now: Dr Bob giving me a PBC because I'm not being supportive of your boyfriend and calling him names... I'm only partly joking, heh heh... )
> So below the belt doesn't even begin to describe it. I guess this is his way of denying the reality that he is an overweight, diabetic, virtually impotent man with an almost non-existent libido.
Hey, tell it like it is. He is justifying his own problems by saying YOU had something to do with them. How about HIM taking responsibility for his own physical and emotional bankruptcy?
>He has never made sex or communication around it a priority in the relationship. I really tried, but he could always use how difficult the subject was for him as an excuse not to do anything about it.
So he needed to go get some help about it. I mean, it's not just Kara Lynne who needs meds and therapy (I assume, maybe wrongly, you've done both... At least, as a denizen of psychobabble, you have an interest in both...) Calling you the problem is just like I said: substitute pronouns...
>It was plenty difficult for me too, but his denial controlled us.Welcome to the human race, though, Kara. I commend you for your kindness, though maybe now you see that was kind of passive, and he was able to slide along for a good long time before things just got really bad and he lashed out at you. But you're the type of person who, if you see somebody's having a problem with something, you don't want to rub his face in it, because you're in fact a NICE PERSON. (As opposed to the way he did actually rub your face in your own emotional issues/difficulties.)
> I just got a message from him. He said he was sorry for saying hurtful things to me,Good.
>but he just wasn't strong enough not to.
Bad. An excuse for his own rotten behavior.
> He said we needed to talk because there were some "things going on". I'm sure it's that he's moving into this gorgeous new house and he needs to tell me so I can find somewhere to go.This is fine... He can go live in a beautiful house, and have an empty life and wreck some other relationships further down the road, and carry on as before. You don't have to live in a "house, not a home," as diva Barbra Streisand once crooned... (I don't think I ever quoted her before... Arggghhh! What's happening to me?? But you know what I mean: without love there, it's just an empty shell of a living situation, and he certainly can't give you love, he's too messed up.)
> The final humiliation. He gets to move into this unbelievable house, because he can afford it. We had originally looked at it together when we were still thinking about living together. What I get to move into is a step up from completely depressing. It just seems like he gets rewarded, somehow.
Kara, he will reap what he sows, as we all do. I'd rather live in a hovel (and believe me, I have, to get away from rotten men), than accept this kind of bargain. You will get your reward, and you don't need him to make that happen for you.
>For him it's all about the image. He can have his people over and impress them all and get some hot babe to cook for for all his off beat, artsy, Hollywood business contacts.
That's fine, like I said. But that's HIS problem, and you have to just use the ON-OFF switch in your head and turn it to OFF when you start thinking in this kind of obsessive pattern...
> I will be obsessively watching mindless television and doing nothing with my life.
Again, switch it to OFF. This isn't helping you feel better, it's just sinking into despair. You don't want to fit in to his H-wood crowd, remember? How many nights did you stay home because you thought you didn't fit in, and that's fine, too. Maybe your friends (now and in the future) are a little more modest, are a little more meaningful, have some real things to talk about, etc. Everybody's different, and you didn't fit in there because you didn't WANT to. And that's ok, that's fine.
> That he did this to me less than two weeks before my exam blows my mind once more.I didn't mention this before, but I meant to... You are absolutely right, it's sabatoge. But also, these things all happen at once sometimes, and you sound healthy enough to make it through all of this, even though it WILL be hard. Your posting here and getting confirmation for your feelings is a real sign of strength, even though it may not feel like it. Trust me, it's a very good sign of your basic emotional health...
>Now he's trying to be civil, but I still don't know how to react.
Yes, you do... See the next line:
>Mostly I don't want to go into desperation when he tells me he's going, which I know he is counting on.
So DON'T give him this trump card. Just keep your reaction business-like and low-key. It's all just about leaving the situation with dignity and self-respect, and tell him that. Don't get enmeshed in conversations about HIS problems and his justification for being a toad to you. Just stay clear of that...
>He likes to leave his women whimpering in his wake.
Have you seen this before in his past relationships? Or has he told you? Interesting. Don't be like everyone else, though. Tell him you're focusing on your exams and finding a decent place to live. That's all. Everything else will have to wait, including heart-to-heart talks. You can't expend energy on this right now, even though I'm sure you feel sorry for him in a way... It's kind of pathetic how he is behaving.
> Whew. Didn't foresee the rant. Thanks for letting me carry on.
So please, don't focus on this house he's probably going to live in. A relationship isn't built on a nice place to live (although it helps), it's built on love, common interests, and mutual respect. That's what you need, Kara, and that's what you deserve, and that's what you will get, once you decide you're worth that (and we know you are).
Thanks for letting ME rant, too. (Ahhhh, I feel better). I know his type, and it's best just to run far far away from him.
love ya,
Wendy
Posted by giget on June 18, 2003, at 8:15:33
In reply to Re: Kara, also.... (long), posted by wendy b. on June 18, 2003, at 7:48:21
Kara,
This is all so familiar, we seem to be in the same situation.
He is trying to blame you for everything that has gone wronge since you have been together. That is not right, he was a player in the relationship also. His problems are just that.... something he sees as wronge with himself.
Please don't go back to him. Stand strong. You do NOT need him, I know that you feel that right now. Would you rather be the married couple that everyone looks at the womyn and can not believe she takes his crap.
Love is extrememly important, but for right now focus on the good things, like getting through the test that is something to accomplish. A new place is a new start. Do not take anything that is really meaningful from him into the place... that was part of my problem. No matter where I looked he was all around. Think of this place as a fresh, second chance to be who you are and live the way you always wanted to.
Friends will be there for the late night calls, and the times you just want him to be there. Depend on them, don't call him. He will only trap you into his world again. I have seen to much of this lately, where my ex just used me because he knew I was so in love and would do anything to get him back.
Take the time right now to focus on something else. I know people are going to be mad for me saying this,.,.. but throw yourself into something else. Get so involved that you don't have the time to think about him, at least for the next couple of weeks. Don't take his calls, delete the messages before you listen to them!
I am only giving you advice on how I delt with the situation, nothing else. I do get heated about men using womyn though....
Take it day by day, it will get easier.
Just think this is your chance to find someone who will love you for who you are... they will love you for your faults also. Don't let anyone else push you down again, or you might drown...
Posted by Tabitha on June 18, 2003, at 13:12:52
In reply to I'm scared, please help, posted by kara lynne on June 16, 2003, at 11:53:30
wow, he sure likes to kick women on his way out the door. don't buy into it. it's his stuff, not yours.
Posted by kara lynne on June 18, 2003, at 13:32:12
In reply to Re: Kara, also.... (long), posted by wendy b. on June 18, 2003, at 7:48:21
Wendy,
You're a peach. Thank you for telling me exactly what I need to hear. Everything you said is right on (except for the part about feeling sorry for him--I wish I were there, but he's being so unbelievably arrogant that it's difficult to feel anything but anger and hurt).He didn't come home at all last night. I know this was designed to make me wonder and obsess, and it worked. I woke up constantly during the night, walking out in the hall and checking to see if he'd come home. Then of course wondering where he was, who he's with. I don't want to make the mistake of showing him how effective his ruse is.
I got the apartment. I'm on my way over to give them a check and sign a rental agreement. Maybe the universe is helping me out by keeping him away. If I could just get out by tomorrow it would be so swell. But I'm just appalled by how much junk I have--and I don't have the luxury of time to sort it out and throw away what I don't need. Plus I'm moving into a much smaller space--downgrading.
Of course you're right that the house doesn't make the relationship. When he was considering it I was asking why he wanted it, and the best I could make out was that it was unusual and it would impress people. I even said to him I would rather have a good relationship in a not so good house than a house that "impresses" and a not so good relationship. The words just blew right past him. He's not picking anything for the benefit of the relationship even though he would tell you otherwise. My counselor says it's as if my life has to depend on his moods, his decisions, his weaknesses. He's just decided to move his office to his home (his office will be a separate space in back) so that the temptation of drugs won't be an issue as it is now (available right near his office).
So once again it looks like I'm leaving right when he'll be home more, which is what I've always wanted more of, and not using drugs. At least he seems to making a show of an effort in that direction, going to NA meetings and such. I need to hear how that's an illusion, things between us still wouldn't be better. But I still wonder--well what if he *was* home more...maybe everything would finally work out. It seems like I'm really being tested here somehow. But I just have to remember him on the phone with that guy, discussing whether I was just not an asset, or a true detriment "to his work"--as if I were a stock investment, or something. I would probably exist there once again entirely in relationship to his work--having to be ready to entertain people for dinner when he had them over to impress.
Anyway, I'm so exhausted. Thank you for reminding me that these things do happen in clusters; honestly the strength to do this will have to come from somewhere up above, 'cause I sure don't got it.
I really hope Dr.Bob doesn't PBC you about anything, maybe it would help if he knew you were helping me save my life by saying those things. I need to keep hearing them over and over and saying them to myself.
Thanks so much, (((wendy)))
Posted by kara lynne on June 18, 2003, at 13:35:53
In reply to Re: I'm scared, please help, posted by kalyb on June 16, 2003, at 15:24:44
Kaly,
I wanted to thank you for writing me--I keep meaning to answer you on the address you gave me which is why I haven't here, but I'm so overwhelmed with the task in front of me that I haven't yet. I still plan to though, when I get a minute to breathe. Hopefully within the next week I'll have my computer set up in my new residence, where I can start over.I hope you are well, you sound like your are. Aso--could you please give me the title of that book again? Thanks so much kaly, and I'll be talking to you soon.
(((kaly)))
Posted by kara lynne on June 18, 2003, at 13:59:56
In reply to Wendy re: Kara (long), posted by kara lynne on June 18, 2003, at 13:32:12
but important for me somehow. When I say tested, I almost mean tortured--like after all that verbal abuse he's moving into this "ideal" situation. But I'd be such an obvious fool to speak another word to anyone who treated me so horribly. He did make sure to sabatoge it; I wonder what in heaven he expected I would do after saying such things to and about me. If I did move in with him it would be giving him permission to treat me worse than a dog. But why does it all come at the same time--the end of the line and the promise that all would have been better. I don't know what I'm saying anymore, I'm delirious from lack of sleep. I will try not to obsess it out so much on this board!! Thanks.
Posted by noa on June 18, 2003, at 16:57:09
In reply to I'm scared, please help, posted by kara lynne on June 16, 2003, at 11:53:30
Kara, I'm so sorry. It sounds like he said those things for maximum damage effect, knowing that he was pushing your buttons and kicking you in the sore spots.
But it doesn't make any of it true!!
how about just trying to just tell yourself (over and over if you have to) to delay thinking about whether you feel that what he said is true or not. Right now you need to go into COPING mode and take care of yourself. Right now you are vulnerable, and it would be hard to not be susceptible to thinking badly of yourself, because you are hurting. Anyone would.
Take care of yourself.
Posted by shar on June 18, 2003, at 18:48:31
In reply to Re: I'm scared, please help » kara lynne, posted by noa on June 18, 2003, at 16:57:09
K-
I am shocked and horrified! I cannot add much, but I can agree that this was much more about HIM than you! Relationships are complicated, more than cooking and cleaning. I know people, in spotless houses, who are terribly unhappy; and good cooks!I'm so sorry this comes right before your boards. I had a similar expierence before my final orals for my doctorate. My then-spouse really went off the deep end about everything that was wrong with ME, and the RELATIONSHIP, and other things...but he missed the part about HIM. He was terribly threatened.
I do hope you will believe your therapist, and that part of you that says 'surely I can't be THAT bad!' and ignore the outbursts of this person.
And, good luck on your boards. I don't know what boards they are, but I bet you'll do fine. Surely it does not feel that way now, but you just wait and see. Oh, and, if HE's so unhappy, he should move out, not you. You have boards to study for!
Take good care!
Shar
Posted by lostsailor on June 19, 2003, at 13:55:07
In reply to Wendy re: Kara (long), posted by kara lynne on June 18, 2003, at 13:32:12
I haven't been posting for a lot of reasons, but have been wanting to on this topic more than any. I did not want to say anything while having tons to say. I just wanted to stay off it when you were still full of ambiguity and uncertainty. At the risk of a PBC, get the hell away from him and tell him to kiss your ass as you bolt the door of your own place.
You are an "asset" here, as I'm sure you are in many places. You may be an asset to his life, but more as a trophy. A detriment? What a testament!!!! You to help entertain and be by him makes you a valuable investment--a good part of a business portfolio, but part of the reason this is such a seemingly viable/valuable investment is that he has thought you were stable and non-fluctuating. You could crash like a china doll in private and he can bitch at you about it; he can grumble to pals and those he rubs elbows with at work to be known as a patron saint for helping the helpless ("learned" helpless, perhaps, if I may)
Like Lot fleeing Sodom and Gomorrah, don't look back at the risk of becoming a pillar of salt--one of sterling crystal, though:)
You are best for him because I don't think anyone would allow him to get away with what he has for only the 6 months or so of reading your posts. I am fairly certain that all was not roses before I picked up the book. I would predict that when you are gone, he will return. He may beg, grovel and ask forgiveness. I can't say what you should do, as your heart is in this, and I am an observer, but it seems like it's your turn to have the upper hand. Not for spite but don't let him win, when this may just begin again.
Play it safe; play it right. Ask the cats when in question: they always fall paws side down.
~t
Posted by waterlily on June 19, 2003, at 19:29:44
In reply to Wendy--correction, sort of. , posted by kara lynne on June 18, 2003, at 13:59:56
^I don't know what I'm saying anymore, I'm delirious from lack of sleep. I will try not to obsess it out so much on this board!! Thanks.
Obsess about it all you want on this board. I'm sure you are a strong person in many ways, but you may need the constant positive reinforcement the people on this board give you so that you will not go back to your ex-boyfriend.
We all have our flaws. It's part of being human. Give yourself permission to be imperfect, but do not believe that your imperfections define you. Your ex-boyfriend has his own problems - like feeling so inadequate that he needs to take strength away from you to have it for himself. Pity him and get on with your life.
Posted by kara lynne on June 19, 2003, at 23:46:05
In reply to re: been biting my tounge---Kara , posted by lostsailor on June 19, 2003, at 13:55:07
I know I say it again and again, but I can't thank you enough. This board is helping me get through one of the toughest moments in my life.
I will be moving tomorrow and I don't think I'll be able to set up my internet for a few days. I'll try to go to work and use that computer. Just wanted to let you know--I'll report back when I've settled in. Thank you for being a lifeline.
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