![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 28. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by obSession on March 13, 2004, at 17:35:14
who here admits to stalking u T?
Posted by toomuchpain on March 13, 2004, at 23:40:25
In reply to admiting to stalking u T, posted by obSession on March 13, 2004, at 17:35:14
ok ok ok ok i found out where my Ex t lives and have drove past there a few times ... i have also made reasons up to go in the building where his office is just for the chance to run in to him !! i have went to where he eats lunch at only 2x though ...i havent done that in while though and i havent been past his house in awhile ..
i have stopped doing all of that cus i felt bad ...i sorta felt likei was crossing boundries even though he never knew about it...
i guess i was kinda wondering what kind of house he lived in and things like that ... but now that i know the curiousty isnt there no more ... how about u guys ????
Posted by bell_75 on March 14, 2004, at 0:32:04
In reply to Re: admiting to stalking u T, posted by toomuchpain on March 13, 2004, at 23:40:25
hmmm I try to but no luck lol he's too good.
Posted by obSession on March 14, 2004, at 13:42:56
In reply to Re: admiting to stalking u T, posted by toomuchpain on March 13, 2004, at 23:40:25
u lucky thanks for sharing...i full on stalked him with no intentions to harm him,we discuss it and im known as the stalker his ENTIRE family know who I am and that I am stalker....I have done soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much!
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 14, 2004, at 15:40:58
In reply to Re: admiting to stalking u T, posted by obSession on March 14, 2004, at 13:42:56
Share the details :)
Posted by Dinah on March 14, 2004, at 16:10:25
In reply to Re: admiting to stalking u T, posted by obSession on March 14, 2004, at 13:42:56
Does he mind? Does his family mind? What does he say about it?
Are you talking about curiosity and googling and things like that, or illegal restraining-order type things?
Posted by toomuchpain on March 15, 2004, at 10:37:18
In reply to Re: Your therapist knows? » obSession, posted by Dinah on March 14, 2004, at 16:10:25
heyyyy ob ... share some details i would really like to know
Posted by pegasus on March 15, 2004, at 13:34:21
In reply to admiting to stalking u T, posted by obSession on March 13, 2004, at 17:35:14
OK, I've done some things that would normally be considered stalking, I suppose. But they didn't hurt anyone, and he didn't know about most of them, and I would never actually peek in someone's windows or anything. But publicly available information is, I think, fair game. So here's what I've done:
1. Googled him, of course, several times.
2. Checked out web sites of organizations he belongs to (discovered via google).
3. Searched the internet to find out where he's going when he goes to "conferences" - I always found out too. :) And they weren't always conferences per se.
4. Walked by his house. (But this was by accident! We live pretty near each other, and his house is on the path of a walk my husband and I often take - even before I met my T. But I recognized the car.)
5. Looked him up in the phone book (to confirm that that was really his house).
6. And the coup de grace - when he decided to move away and put his house on the market, I found the listing on the internet, and actually got to look at pictures of the house, including of many of the rooms. He doesn't live there any more. But I think this is the worse stalking-type thing I did. Nevertheless, it was really comforting in the midst of a very tumultuous early termination of therapy.So, how bad am I? I hope to god he never reads this, or he'll never talk to me again!
- p
Posted by Dinah on March 15, 2004, at 18:01:46
In reply to Re: admiting to stalking u T, posted by pegasus on March 15, 2004, at 13:34:21
I don't think I would consider googling or researching publicly available information (including a publicly listed home) as stalking.
But I don't think I'd consider genuine stalking all that amusing. I've never been on the receiving (or giving) end, but I imagine it must be frightening and terribly unpleasant, even if the stalker meant no physical harm. I wouldn't like to think of my therapist having to go through that (or gardenergirl or apperceptor or emmy or anyone else), or consider that the rules that protect ordinary people don't apply to therapists or their families - or actors and their families or politicians and their families.
Nothing I've done would get me a knock on the door by the local gendarmes. But stalking of therapists really does happen. So perhaps we ought to think of a different word for the googling type thing.
My therapist is more laid back than some about privacy. He figures it's normal for clients to be curious about an important person in their lives. He even gives out his home address on his bills. But he's stated (in general discussions on the topic - not specific to me) that harassment or stalking would constitute grounds for termination if the client wouldn't stop.
Posted by pegasus on March 16, 2004, at 16:54:43
In reply to Re: admiting to stalking u T, posted by Dinah on March 15, 2004, at 18:01:46
No, I agree. Real stalking, where you follow them around or call them all the time when they ask you not to, or peek into their windows, or trespass etc. would not be amusing. And I wouldn't blame a T that terminated a patient for that. Because, how would they know that it wouldn't turn dangerous? And how could they ever feel like they had real privacy? Those are really important things.
I'm not very proud of even the mini e-stalking that I've done. And yet I'm trying to see the logic of it, the limits I have, and not beat myself up over it. In my mind, there is a distinct line between perusing public information and actually walking into their backyard (or whatever). Personally, I did feel a little over the line when checking out the interior of his house online. Even though anyone in the world could have seen the same pictures if they had looked. But the thing is that I'm sure he didn't expect or want clients to see those pics.
- p
Posted by Dinah on March 16, 2004, at 17:14:36
In reply to Re: admiting to stalking u T » Dinah, posted by pegasus on March 16, 2004, at 16:54:43
Ah Pegasus, don't feel guilty about that. He knew he had clients. And it's not a requirement to post your house on the internet. He chose to do that.
I wouldn't feel particularly guilty about that. I probably would even admit to it. Of course, mine gave out his home address. :)
Posted by Courtney on March 17, 2004, at 23:17:03
In reply to Re: admiting to stalking u T » pegasus, posted by Dinah on March 16, 2004, at 17:14:36
I'm curious, mostly because she seems so fcking COOL! Man if I even came remotely close to being like her... I LOVE stalking!! I admit it. But I consider it a challenege to do so limiting myself to the net and other public resources. I really don't want to know anything she doesn't want me to know. It's easy to respect those limits of you recall exactly how it feels to have such limits violated by others (has anyone ever read your diary or journal?). And it's just more fun to be a clever detective, with limits, than a self-loathing creep without limits.
Posted by lonelygirl on March 19, 2004, at 2:36:33
In reply to Re: admiting to stalking u T, posted by pegasus on March 15, 2004, at 13:34:21
Ooooh... Thanks for admitting this :) My turn:
1. I, too, Google. Who doesn't? Unfortunately, there's not much out there about him. I also did google-research into things like the college where he got his undergraduate degree.
2. I have found his address and phone number. He lives in an apartment, and I drove past the complex ONCE. I didn't even stop or try to figure out which was his. Just drove past. I have been very tempted to call his home during the day (while he is at work), but I am worried that he could have caller ID, so I have managed to restrain myself from calling.
3. He got his Ph.D. at my school. Doctoral theses are available in the campus library. I looked his up.
4. I noticed a journal of which there are many issues on his desk and bookshelf, which leads me to believe that he subscribes. I have looked up the e-journal online. It's pretty boring, though :)
I think that a "real" stalker works differently... I would never do anything where I could really get caught doing something wrong -- like following him around. I think "real" stalkers, though, do not have a sense of what is and isn't appropriate, and they are not ashamed to be seen following the victim around, calling his home, etc.
I do not think there is anything wrong with 1, 3, or 4. These things are not illegal, not really private, and readily available to the public. 2, yes, I am ashamed that I drove past his apartment; I shouldn't have done it, and I won't do it again. I have done some reading on stalking, and there is not much in the way of advice for the stalker, but a lot on the victims. I have read that therapists are at high risk to be stalking victims, and I have read about how horrible it is for them to go through that. Reading about it from the victim's perspective made me feel really awful about just driving past his apartment, especially because I like him so much and the LAST thing I would ever want to do is hurt him in any way or make him uncomfortable.
Posted by obSession on March 19, 2004, at 15:59:18
In reply to Re: admiting to stalking u T » pegasus, posted by Dinah on March 16, 2004, at 17:14:36
hi guys thanks sooo much for replying to my post.
well i actually have been termed a real stalker, i have had times invaded his boundries many times , but he knows about it all and when ever i do anything i tell him no matter how bad it is, and we deal with it. he helps me work threw it , ive done some hectic stuff in my time, ive even had some shrink fantasies come true due to my stalking, and by the way i dont have erotic transferance but if i did , i would probably be in jail by now.
i would never harm my therapist or his family and he knows that and that is one of the key elements for him which is that i am not dangerous....email me if u want more details like very intense ones as cant say the hectic stuff on here, incase he reads it paranoid due due to reasoning if i can find him online he could find me :P
i have been proud to be his stalker yes as i have had the oppurtunity of going to places on many levels that his other patients havent and he knows this!
Posted by lonelygirl on March 19, 2004, at 20:20:39
In reply to Re: admiting to stalking u T, posted by obSession on March 19, 2004, at 15:59:18
Oh... That is too bad, but it is nice that he is understanding about it. May I ask what he does to help you through it (I apologize if I am prying)? And why do you say you are you proud to be his stalker?
I kind of have a history of "stalking" guys I like. I think the worst thing I have done to anyone was drive past his house a lot. I always get the urge to see where people (i.e., guys I like) live. I have been caught only a couple of times, and it always makes me stop immediately. I have no desire to do it any more once I have been caught.
I also like to find out what cars they drive. Actually, my current psychologist once told me that he had bought a car the previous weekend. I immediately thought of going to the parking lot and finding the brand new car so I could figure out which was his, but I didn't do it because I thought it would look suspicious for me to be looking around the parking lot like that (there are a lot of car thefts on campus, so if someone got the wrong idea, I could have been in real trouble). I was really terrified that he might actually somehow see me, and get freaked out, and I would lose him. So I did not do it.
One time in high school (I attended an all girls school), I had a crush on a male teacher (actually, he is one of the ones who later caught me driving past his house -- and he was not very understanding about it). When it snowed, I used to find his car in the parking lot and brush it off after school. Oddly, a lot of my classmates knew about this and even joked about it (in a holiday gift exchange in one of my athletic teams, I received an ice scraper). I believe at the time that I thought he had no idea it was me, but in hindsight, if all of my classmates knew, he obviously did too!
I have also been guilty in the past of calling just to hear their voice mail greeting. I did that recently at my job, to call a coworker I had a crush on, when he was on vacation. But what I didn't realize was that it recorded my name (since I was calling from my own extension), even though I hung up before it started recording (I now know that one must press 9 to prevent it from doing that). Then he called me from home, saying that he got a blank message from me, and asking what I wanted! Luckily, I sort of had an excuse for calling him anyway, but D'OH!!!
I have also, once or twice, given anonymous gifts. I once snuck into the teacher's lounge to put a Valentine's Day gift in the mailbox of another teacher (not the same one as above). Another time, when I was 14 or 15, I bought a birthday present for a guy I liked (who was about a year younger than me), and I rode my bike to his house and put it on the doorstep (along with a helium-filled mylar balloon and a card). I rode my bike past his house again later to see if he had picked it up, and his MOTHER saw me from the window and ran out the front door chasing after me, saying she was going to call the police (even though she knows my family and we went to the same church). It may have been the most humiliating moment of my life.
Anyway, I have inexplicably gotten much better about this. I still sort of want to, but I just don't have much difficulty stopping myself from doing it. Perhaps it was just that I have been caught enough times to give me an aversion to it. Or maybe it's just gotten so much easier to find "safe" ways of finding information (like Google) that it's not worth it to risk getting caught. Also, like I said before, I have read about stalking from the victims' perspective. For some reason, this really affected me, especially with the psychologist. It just made me feel so bad to think of causing him stress or fear. His job is already kind of stressful as it is, and I know that he needs to have a boundary between that and his personal life.
Posted by Still Hurting on March 19, 2004, at 22:44:17
In reply to Re: admiting to stalking u T » Dinah, posted by pegasus on March 16, 2004, at 16:54:43
Hey Guys,
I stalked my therapist for 7 months and she won a protection order against me last month. I'm surprised that you guys missed it, cause I posted it in here.
These are the ways I stalked my therapist:
1. phone calls (either calling and talking or calling and hanging up)
2. email letters (whether addressed by me or some fake name)
3. driving by her workplace
4. driving by her house
5. sitting outside her house
6. walking up to her house (i was going to flatten her tires many nights. I got real close but I just couldn't)
7. checking out the apt adjacent to her's.
8. looking up public information on her, her children, her parents.
9. talking to others to get info about her, her children, her parents.
10. search engines on the internet
11. calling psychics, spiritualists, etc.
12. calling her friends for info.
13. meeting her ex-husband for info.
14. driving by her mother's house
15. using other extensions to forward calls to her
16. talking to her other clients to see if they felt the same way I did.
17. calling government depts to find out info on her.God I had it reallll bad. I've never seen this side of me in any relationship. I truly appreciated this woman in my life. Not only as a therapist, but she was really a great person. Our intellectual knowledge seemed to ignite the room. She was a blessing. Unfortunately, she realized my attachment to her and kicked me to the curve. But the termination bought out the worse in me and I behaved accordingly. I believe that if she talked to me about the attachment it would have been better eliminated. In a way I'm glad she's won the order because this helps me to say good-bye to a dead relationship.
And I hope that you guys too can say good-bye to a never satisfing relationship and hello to people out there that really want to love you and will.
Posted by obSession on March 21, 2004, at 13:00:58
In reply to Re: admiting to stalking u T, posted by Still Hurting on March 19, 2004, at 22:44:17
oh my word.......okay those things that u listed .... U R FIRST PERSON I KNOW IN ENTIRE WORLD TO HAVE GONE THROUGH SAME THINGS AS ME. U THINK EXACTLY LIKE I DO I HAVE CROSSED BOUNDRIES IN THOSE EXACT SORTA WAYS TO THE EXTREME.. IVE BEEN JUGGLING RESTRAING ORDER THREATS FOR YRS AND YRS....sorry u lost ...
pls pls email me [email protected]need to speak to u ................ive also done hectic stuff and know his entire family and their history and am not just a "google searcher" that to me is amatuer stuff no offense to anyone else ...would never harm or hurt T but have taken things in extreme forms exactly like u and u only person i know who has done things to the same extent as me driving past house once or twice is not constituted as stalking to me standing outside his house for ages is normal to me SO U CAN IMAGINE THE LENGTHS I HAVE BEEN TO ...... pls mail me pls pls pls pls pls
need to talk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!thanks :)
Posted by lonelygirl on March 27, 2004, at 4:52:47
In reply to admiting to stalking u T, posted by obSession on March 13, 2004, at 17:35:14
I am so desperate to find a picture of him that I have been googling and googling some more and taking every possible branch to find more on him. Well...
I feel like an idiot now because I had somehow managed to overlook the information that HE IS TEACHING A CLASS THIS SEMESTER!!! I can't believe I missed that before! So now I know when and where this class is (not only that, but I know where his self-esteem group meets immediately before the class), and I am going to have a really hard time staying away. What I do is, I picture him seeing me, realizing that I am there to see him and being totally horrified, and then me having to face him on Tuesday. See, there IS an advantage to "jumping to conclusions" (#5 on the list of 10 ways of distorted thinking, which is his favorite thing ever so I memorized the whole list, in order, just on the off chance that I will get an opportunity to impress him).
But OMG is it ever tempting, just to stand outside the room and hear his voice for a minute. Maybe I can just go in after the class and just hold the chalk that he had in his hand or something.
(And maybe I should think about going to bed before 4:00 AM, considering that I got about 3 hours of sleep last night and I can barely keep my eyes open long enough to finish this sentence.)
Posted by fallsfall on March 27, 2004, at 7:33:33
In reply to Re: admiting to stalking u T, posted by lonelygirl on March 27, 2004, at 4:52:47
Lonelygirl,
I really can understand how tempting it would be to stand outside his class and hear his voice.
I have had the experience of violating my therapist's boundaries (well, she felt they were violated, honestly I didn't do anything wrong, but that didn't matter. What mattered was that SHE felt that her boundaries had been violated). It may have been the worst experience of my life. She was mad, she was disappointed, she put a wall up to protect herself (and usually she was SO open). I had worked so hard to be the perfect patient, to please her, to make her proud. Having her angry at me was absolutely excruciatingly devistating - and then she pasted a smile on her face and lied to me that she wasn't angry, that she wasn't happy with what I had done, but she "understood". She wanted to think about it for a week, and when I came the next time we would talk about whether we could continue therapy. That was a hell week. She decided that we could coninue. But I was still feeling like she was mad at me. Three weeks later she did admit that she had been angry.
Some of this was transference, but some of it was not. This friction between us is what forced me to find a new therapist. The agony was incredible. It still is. I left her 8 months ago.
Please, please understand that your relationship has boundaries, and that they are there both for your therapist and for you. You can do all sorts of awful things, and tell your therapist about them and your therapist will look concerned and nod and help you. But when you violate their boundaries, it becomes personal to them and they (at least my therapist did) lose their professional perspective. I felt that I hurt her as a person very deeply - that I hadn't respected or honored her. That was a terrible feeling.
BUT - If your therapist is a professor, wouldn't his picture be in a yearbook? I bet the library has a copy. Look through all of the school's publications (newspapers, Alumni magazines, yearbooks, course catalogs, pick up one of everything at your admissions office - he'll be there somewhere.)
No matter how scared you are to ASK for a picture, the "punishment" if he didn't want to give you one would be much more bearable than if he caught you spying on him. Because if you ask for a picture in a session, you are explaining a need that you have (which is what you are supposed to do in a session). If he says no, then he'll need to help you deal with that no. If you spy on him, then you are probing at him when he doesn't have the protection of his professional persona - and that persona protects YOU as well as him.
You don't WANT him to be angry or hurt.
You can tell him what you WANTED to do, but that you DIDN'T do.
I honestly understand the compulsion for more connection. I HAVE more connection with my current therapist because we have TALKED about it. Please try to talk about it with him, rather than acting on it.
Good luck.
Posted by noa on March 27, 2004, at 11:16:32
In reply to Re: admiting to stalking u T, posted by Dinah on March 15, 2004, at 18:01:46
I think that there is also a difference, perhaps only as a matter of degree, between trying to satisfy curiosity and stalking. To me, accessing public info or even going by a house once out of curiosity isn't really stalking (BTW, I have a hard time understanding why some therapists don't take advantage of either unlisted numbers or omitting their street address from the listing, which is an option). Stalking, to me, has a connotation of repeated behaviors, and a connotation of repeatedly acting on curiosity or obsessive feelings, and perhaps escalation---minor testing of boundaries at first, followed by bigger and bigger boundary violations.
I guess to me, the important thing is to ask yourself if you feel you can control acting out the longings. Can you satisfy your curiosity and then stop acting it out, even if you are feeling it very strongly?
I agree with fallsfall who recommends talking about the feelings in therapy, even expressing the desire for a photo, or talking about the temptation to get close to the therapist in real life. That way you are keeping it in the therapy session and it can be worked on. I think talking about it IN therapy can actually help develop more self-control so as not to act on the feelings in real life.
I drove by my therapist's house two times early in the therapy. I confessed it immediately because of several reasons: first, I usually can't lie or decieve my therapist--it just would feel awful. Second, I felt like it would be a relief to talk about it in therapy rather than be plagued by the temptation to do it again, and three, I knew it was important for my treatment to talk about the feelings that made me so curious about him and his life. He was very understanding and did not show any sign of feeling threatened when I told him. We processed the feelings and he helped me feel so much less ashamed of the longing that led me to drive by his house. I think I must have talked about feeling afraid that I might not be able to control such urges, because I remember that he did say something about seeing me as a person with good boundaries so he wasn't worried about me violating his boundaries, or something like that. I don't know if he would feel differently if he didn't see me as someone with good boundaries. Maybe he would have reacted differently. I also think he was reinforcing the good boundary part of me by saying that, of course.
Posted by lonelygirl on March 27, 2004, at 13:19:27
In reply to Re: admiting to stalking u T » lonelygirl, posted by fallsfall on March 27, 2004, at 7:33:33
Well, like I said, I am trying not to do it... Thank you for your story, because that is sort of what stops me. For example, one time, he mentioned that he bought a new car the previous weekend, and I was very tempted to go to the parking lot and look around for the brand new car so that I could figure out which was his. But I kept imagining him walking out of the building as I was in the parking lot and seeing me and being totally horrified.
So, what I am imagining right now is all the ways that it could go wrong if I go stand outside of his classroom... All the times that he could potentially see me (and I am kind of hard to miss), or maybe that someone in his class could notice me standing around and realize that it's weird (people tend to be afraid of me as it is, since I am so ugly) and telling him about it. I have been "caught" a couple of times with other people (just going past their houses) and I know how humiliating it is, and I couldn't handle that from him.
Anyway, he is not really a professor; he just teaches one class and I think he is considered an adjuct professor. He is not even listed in the department where he teaches (believe me, I have scoured their web site). I have had adjunct professors for classes in my department, although they were brought in from corporations, not from another on-campus non-academic department like my psychologist, and they are not really considered part of the department.
Anyway, I'm not sure if my school even has a yearbook. I have never heard of one! Do most colleges have them? I go to a very large state school, so I don't think it's all that likely that he would be pictured in any of these publications (though I have looked through things like psychology department newsletters, programs for conferences where he has presented, etc., and found NOTHING).
I still do not feel comfortable in asking him for a picture or telling him about my feelings for him. No matter how professional I'm sure he would be, I know that his PERSONAL, internal reaction would be disgust and revulsion, and I can't stand knowing that. Plus, he is bound in large part by counseling center policies, which he does not decide, and it could be that their policy in a case like this would be to switch the person to a different therapist.
Thanks...
Posted by lonelygirl on March 27, 2004, at 13:44:17
In reply to Re: curiosity vs. stalking, posted by noa on March 27, 2004, at 11:16:32
I have driven past his apartment complex once (never told him, though!)... I used to be a lot worse about things like this. I literally could not stop myself from driving past the houses of guys I liked, fairly often. But in recent years, I have noticed that for some reason, while the desire is still there (I even get directions to their houses from Expedia), I usually manage to stop myself from doing it. This was actually the first time in a few years that I have actually done it.
I think part of it is that it's 15-20 minutes away, and he lives in an apartment complex, so it's not like I was going to see him there! I didn't even know which building he lives in. I thought briefly about getting out and sort of snooping around the complex (seeing if I could find his mailbox or something), but that was not something I really consided doing. It's sort of like how I am tempted to get a plane ticket to Kansas City and go to the conference where he is presenting next weekend, but obviously I know that is completely ridiculous and I'm not going to do that. Anyway, I still feel a strong desire, on occasion, to go drive past the apartment complex again, but logic wins out (except for the first time) and I realize that it's not even worth it. I guess that means I have managed to satisfy my curiosity and move on.
It is a little harder when I live on campus and pass the health center on my way to class every day (I have class in a building adjacent to the health center). I sort of consider the campus "my territory" -- he just works there. I have a reason to be on campus all day and all night. I could be on my way to the library while he is on his way to his class, and we could cross paths, and I would have a good reason for being there. But, I wouldn't do that anyway, because I want to see him, but I don't want him to see me. I wish I could be literally invisible (I already am, figuratively!) so I could watch people whever I wanted without having them see me.
Posted by lonelygirl on March 27, 2004, at 15:11:30
In reply to Re: admiting to stalking u T, posted by lonelygirl on March 27, 2004, at 4:52:47
I hate being so obsessed with him! I can't think of ANYTHING else! My thoughts are just totally consumed by him, every waking hour. It is driving me insane. I want to die just to make it stop. I am so mad that they made me go to counseling and they assigned me to him. My life would be so much easier if I had never met him. I have been obsessed with people before, but I can't remember it ever being this intense and all-consuming. I HATE FEELING LIKE THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Dinah on March 27, 2004, at 20:25:45
In reply to obsessed, posted by lonelygirl on March 27, 2004, at 15:11:30
It's a shame you won't be seeing him much longer. You describe a situation that is ideal for using transference to work through. You have become obsessed with people before, but you can't process that in the real world with the people you're obsessed with. But therapy is just the place to do that (if the therapist is aware of the dynamic of course).
Posted by lonelygirl on March 29, 2004, at 15:40:57
In reply to Re: admiting to stalking u T » lonelygirl, posted by fallsfall on March 27, 2004, at 7:33:33
The class he teaches is Monday afternoons. I went to the building where the room of his class is to "stake it out." But when I got to the room, I realized that it has a big, heavy door, and no windows facing the hallway, and I couldn't even tell if there was a class in the room at the time or not! So, although I probably shouldn't have done it, I am glad I did because now I realize that it wouldn't even be worth it to go over there. I wouldn't be able to see him anyway, because any time I could see him, he would be able to see me, which would be bad, and I wouldn't even be able to hear him through the door anyway, so why risk getting caught -- especially when I am going to see him tomorrow afternoon anyway?
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