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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 14 to 38 of 45. Go back in thread:
Posted by terramiller on October 8, 2002, at 22:52:26
In reply to Re: just wanted to wish you luck » judy1, posted by Lorelai on October 4, 2002, at 6:53:15
hope i'm not butting in here.... but i wanted to suggest that you ask alice what she wants to do... which i bet you already have. but in case you haven't.... i bet you alice knows who you can trust and who you can't. and i bet you that if alice doesn't trust the therapist, there's no way that you are going to go deep. if they can't win over alice, forget it. just a thought. because it sounds like alice is pretty good at her job of taking care of you and she's going to keep doing that job until she feels like someone more trustworthy can step in and help. it's a beautiful thing when someone inside who helps us decides the therapist knows what he's doing and can be trusted.... then that one who has been so helpful finally gets the rest they need. could be alice wants to rest, too. could be alice has some things she wants to talk about but she's waiting until she can find the right therapist to tell.
take care.
terra
Posted by Lorelai on October 8, 2002, at 22:59:22
In reply to Re: Disassociative Disorder/Alter Egos » Lorelai, posted by terramiller on October 8, 2002, at 22:43:31
> hi. i keep trying to post and have no idea what to say. sorry. i read a really helpful article, but i can't remember where i read it. i know i gave my therapist a copy of it, so maybe he'll know. the point was the mpd isn't what people always thought it was and that for the majority of people, it doesn't present like personality A and personality B set in stone kind of thing..... well, anyway, when i can pull my thoughts together i'll try this again.
>
> other random thoughts: you are you and alice is you, but it's normal for alice to feel like alice. that's when it just takes time, especially when alice has alice's own opinions. also, if alice helps out then alice is cool and will continue to be alice until she's not needed anymore/you are able to do what she does and then you and alice will just be you... but an incredibly wellrounded you. and... it's normal not to want to tell anybody, or to feel like you're crazy, or that you want to hide, or that you are the only one. that's totally normal. it's amazing how the support comes out once you talk, which is very cool.
>
> take care, terraThanks, terra. I appreciate that you took the time to post. I just happened to be up late and caught this post right away! I saw my new therapist on Monday and she was very reassuring. I told her I was feeling booted by my old pdoc, even though the old one had told me she was still wanting to see me to check on my progress. Once I got that resentment out of the way and into the open, things started to feel a lot better. I'm just having such a weird time lately, wondering how much to actually tell people (like my best friend, who is extremely understanding. I worry I'll drive her away, though deep down I know nothing could make that happen. Still, abandonment is a very real concern of mine, I guess). My parents are in their 70's and I have hinted about things to them recently, but have never gone into much detail. They realize I'm in therapy, know I have some pretty bad problems, but I don't feel comfortable letting them in on things that have gone on with me since I was a child. I know this is going to sound strange maybe, but I've always felt that there are just some problems I couldn't share with anyone. Not my best friend, not any of my husbands (ex, I mean). No one. The only reason all this has come to light is because I nearly ruined yet another longterm relationship and this time I just suddenly realized I didn't want to go through another heartbreak. I finally trusted someone enough to tell him and things have progressed from there. There are times when I feel resentful of the whole therapy process, the meds, all of it, but then I stop and think that I need to do this for myself, for my kids and for the man in my life. Wow, said another mouthful. Whew! Thanks to all who posted and thanks again, Terra, for your kind words.
Best,
Lorelai
Posted by Lorelai on October 8, 2002, at 23:14:46
In reply to Re: just wanted to wish you luck » Lorelai, posted by terramiller on October 8, 2002, at 22:52:26
> hope i'm not butting in here.... but i wanted to suggest that you ask alice what she wants to do... which i bet you already have. but in case you haven't.... i bet you alice knows who you can trust and who you can't. and i bet you that if alice doesn't trust the therapist, there's no way that you are going to go deep. if they can't win over alice, forget it. just a thought. because it sounds like alice is pretty good at her job of taking care of you and she's going to keep doing that job until she feels like someone more trustworthy can step in and help. it's a beautiful thing when someone inside who helps us decides the therapist knows what he's doing and can be trusted.... then that one who has been so helpful finally gets the rest they need. could be alice wants to rest, too. could be alice has some things she wants to talk about but she's waiting until she can find the right therapist to tell.
>
> take care.
> terra
No, you're not butting in (: I appreciate the comments very much! And I have to agree that it's going to take finding someone very trustworthy/comfortable. alice and I had an argument over finally telling Doc S and then being "dumped" for this other shrink. But it was ME who was pissed at alice. I told her she'd really done it now. So now I'm looking at that and I realize it's alice that wants to be discovered. I've always been the one to want her hidden from the world. Even so, at this point, alice is a little leery. What's she want to do? I guess the best word is she's ambivalent. She has days where she wants the pdocs to leave well enough alone, but then something else has been going on (memory glitches that interfere with my life in a more damaging way), so she seems more open to this process. Still, there are certain things she/I refuse to talk about. I know this is maybe detrimental to therapy, but I don't WANT to remember certain things, yet I do remember them, at least I sort of remember things in a haze (weird stuff from childhood), yet I will NOT talk to anyone about them. I can't bring myself to. So then I feel guilty about that, like I'm hiding something that could be very key to this whole thing. But alice says no friggin' way, and I never say anything. Well, I'm blabbing. Sorry!
~L
Posted by terramiller on October 9, 2002, at 22:30:08
In reply to Re: just wanted to wish you luck » terramiller, posted by Lorelai on October 8, 2002, at 23:14:46
Hi. I do understand that conflict of do you tell or not... and sometimes it's too scary or makes you too sick to even think about talking about it. Somehow, if it is necessary you will talk about it. I have a running joke now with my therapist. If I remember something difficult, I call ahead and tell him to make sure the wastebasket is empty so I can puke in it if I throw up in session. I never have, but I feel like I will all the way up to the session and having that bucket next to me makes it easy for me to talk. That's just what I do. You'll find a way when you are ready. My therapist has another helpful saying: He says that what needs to come up will, and what doesn't need to come up he doesn't think he needs to go fishing for. He trusts my head because I've lived this long and done a pretty good job at that considering. Same with you. It sounds like you had a really good meeting with your therapist. I'm happy that you got some of that out. I understand the abandonment issues. Take care, Terra
Posted by Lorelai on October 10, 2002, at 14:26:13
In reply to Re: just wanted to wish you luck » Lorelai, posted by terramiller on October 9, 2002, at 22:30:08
> Hi. I do understand that conflict of do you tell or not... and sometimes it's too scary or makes you too sick to even think about talking about it. Somehow, if it is necessary you will talk about it. I have a running joke now with my therapist. If I remember something difficult, I call ahead and tell him to make sure the wastebasket is empty so I can puke in it if I throw up in session. I never have, but I feel like I will all the way up to the session and having that bucket next to me makes it easy for me to talk. That's just what I do. You'll find a way when you are ready. My therapist has another helpful saying: He says that what needs to come up will, and what doesn't need to come up he doesn't think he needs to go fishing for. He trusts my head because I've lived this long and done a pretty good job at that considering. Same with you. It sounds like you had a really good meeting with your therapist. I'm happy that you got some of that out. I understand the abandonment issues. Take care, Terra
***Thanks for the support, Terra. Helps more than you know (well, then again, you probably do know)! My new therapist wants me to read up on this dissociative stuff (I see I spelled it wrong at the top of this thread--I pretty much know less than nothing about it, which accounts for my freaked out posts here. Have been so absorbed in studying bipolar disorder, autism--my 3rd grade son is autistic--and looking up every new med the pdoc puts me on). Anyway, the doc says it may put my mind at ease to know more about it and that it's not that I'm crazy--which is pretty much what some of you in this discussion have been telling me. That I'm NOT totally around the bend. For years I knew I had some major problems, but kept my mouth shut because I had scary visions of being locked up. When I had my children, suddenly it became even more crucial to me that I stay as sane as possible. So admitting I even have problems has been difficult. I like the idea about the waste basket to throw up in. I don't usually feel like getting sick when I think of things that may or may not come up. Mainly I feel agitated (REALLY agitated, like hyper-stressed). I like what your therapist says:
what needs to come up will, and what doesn't need to come up he doesn't think he needs to go fishing for. Sounds like sound wisdom to me (:
Thanks so much for your reply!
~Lorelai
Posted by terramiller on October 10, 2002, at 22:16:30
In reply to Re: just wanted to wish you luck » terramiller, posted by Lorelai on October 10, 2002, at 14:26:13
Most of what I felt at first was agitation, too. I would just bounce off the walls. It was really terrible. That was before the world of meds, so I really thought I was not going to make it.
I also know what it feels like to feel responsible for your own kids. That can really be a stabilizing factor in your own healing process. You aren't likely to totally lose it because of being committed to your kids. The good/bad thing about kids, is sometimes they are the ones that can cause stuff to come up... like when they get to a certain age that you were when you were a kid.
Everybody freaks out at first. You think you are the only one and that nobody else has a story anywhere close to yours. Somebody likely told you that a long time ago, or you became convinced of it because you kept your mouth shut and didn't tell anybody to keep safe.
In your reading, may I gently advise you to start with the academic and be careful which "real life biographical" stories you read. You do not want to uncork more than you are ready for. I like a book by Christine Courtouis.... title is something like Incest /treatment of or something or other. I liked it so much that I bought my own copy. The reason why I liked it is because it's totally academic and nonemotional. You can learn a lot about Post Traumatic Stress as well as Dissociating on a general level. You can probably locate it in a library, which is where I ran across it first. I found it informative without being threatening.
On the internet, Sidran (I think) has some really general information about dissociation that is very helpful for those trying to acquaint themselves with the term and issues.
It's normal... at least it's normal for me :-).... to experience a caged feeling accompanied by panic and agitation. It's important to have calming and self soothing techniques in place and to practice them. (Believe it or not, my current calming choice is to watch Bear In The Big Blue House.... kid stuff calms me down a lot.) Find what works for you and give yourself permission to comfort yourself. Benzos are extremely helpful, but caring for yourself works longer and for the longer term.
Just some thoughts. It helps me to talk to other people; helps me in my own process. I unfortunately have been where you seem to be.
Take care,
Terra
Posted by Sean01 on December 29, 2002, at 21:28:47
In reply to Re: just wanted to wish you luck » Lorelai, posted by terramiller on October 10, 2002, at 22:16:30
Hi. I came across this thread and learned a lot. I am not a therapist, nor a psychologist, but I have a strong suspicion that my girlfriend suffers from dissociative disorder. I have researched a great deal - mostly on-line - to educate myself so to better understand what she is going through. I love her very much, and she loves me...but there is a "part" of her that runs away (fast) whenever she allows herself to trust, feel happy, and love openly. She struggles to stay in the present, has profound memory lapses, adores and wants to spend every second with me one minute, then will be distantly detached, cold, and even heartless the next. I have seen her in various stages of dissociation - sometimes it is so acute it is scary. But I don't judge her because I know there is something else going on.
she speaks of her "secret garden" (do you know bruce springsteen's song?) where no one is let in. But she HAS trusted me on several occassions to enter that garden where she reveals to me incredible stories from her past. I fear she has suffered gross abandonment and emotional abuse - from EVERYONE close to her. I also fear she may have been sexually abused. I want to help desperately. I think she is only partially aware of her dissociation. She is seeing a therapist. I have asked her to let me go with her. I feel I can help. not surprisingly she says no way. I wish I could speak to her therapist. Should I approach her therapist on my own, or is this a betrayal? Inappropriate? My GF is a great actress (as I think is common for this disorder) and does a good job of fooling most everyone. Maybe she fools her therpaist as well? I am very concerned for her...is there anything I can do? I don't want to abandon her like everyone else has. your advice would be greatly appreciated! sorry to try and explain something so complicated in a short note, but I suspect you can fill in the blanks.
thanks. sean.
Posted by lorelai on December 31, 2002, at 12:33:24
In reply to Re: just wanted to wish you luck, posted by Sean01 on December 29, 2002, at 21:28:47
> Hi. I came across this thread and learned a lot. I am not a therapist, nor a psychologist, but I have a strong suspicion that my girlfriend suffers from dissociative disorder. I have researched a great deal - mostly on-line - to educate myself so to better understand what she is going through. I love her very much, and she loves me...but there is a "part" of her that runs away (fast) whenever she allows herself to trust, feel happy, and love openly. She struggles to stay in the present, has profound memory lapses, adores and wants to spend every second with me one minute, then will be distantly detached, cold, and even heartless the next. I have seen her in various stages of dissociation - sometimes it is so acute it is scary. But I don't judge her because I know there is something else going on.
>
> she speaks of her "secret garden" (do you know bruce springsteen's song?) where no one is let in. But she HAS trusted me on several occassions to enter that garden where she reveals to me incredible stories from her past. I fear she has suffered gross abandonment and emotional abuse - from EVERYONE close to her. I also fear she may have been sexually abused. I want to help desperately. I think she is only partially aware of her dissociation. She is seeing a therapist. I have asked her to let me go with her. I feel I can help. not surprisingly she says no way. I wish I could speak to her therapist. Should I approach her therapist on my own, or is this a betrayal? Inappropriate? My GF is a great actress (as I think is common for this disorder) and does a good job of fooling most everyone. Maybe she fools her therpaist as well? I am very concerned for her...is there anything I can do? I don't want to abandon her like everyone else has. your advice would be greatly appreciated! sorry to try and explain something so complicated in a short note, but I suspect you can fill in the blanks.
>
> thanks. sean.
Sean,Like you, my boyfriend wants to help and has offered to speak to my therapist. I've okayed this in the past, but have since decided I'd rather not go that route. Not yet. It's tough to trust someone that deeply and I'm sure your girlfriend does trust you to a certain extent. It's funny you mention that Springsteen song because I've been listening to it lately and feel the same way. Anyway, as far as going behind your girlfriend's back to talk to her therapist--? Don't even think about it. For one, if the therapist has any ethics at all he/she will refuse to discuss the client behind her back. Also, the trust you've gained with your girlfriend thus far will be lost. I don't have answers for you. I wish I did. I just know that establishing trust with your girlfriend will take a long time and that maybe, one day, she'll trust you on a deep enough level to allow you into some therapy sessions with her. I've been with my boyfriend for nearly 3 years and still don't feel that I can let him in completely, though I love him very much. The main thing is, let her know you're there for her. It's a positive thing that you've chosen to study up on dissociative disorder (rather than running away) and if you're willing to live with this, then more power to ya. I know my friends and family have a tough time putting up with my problems, but I've managed to find a very small circle of people (my therapist, my shrink, my boyfriend and my best friend) who know I'm a good person at heart who just happens to disappear sometimes, grow very cold and distant and sometimes seem to not even be Lorelai anymore. I've been doing a lot of serious work with a therapist who specializes in these things. It's a scary thing when you've done things/said things you have zero memory of. When you've estranged family members and friends with your behavior and you have no recollection of said behavior. Sorry to've babbled on and on. All the best of luck to you and your girlfriend, Sean. I'm glad to hear she's in therapy and has a supportive boyfriend by her side. Believe me, if she doesn't already, she'll probably grow to appreciate having someone like you in her life. I just hope you'll steer clear of trying to get into her therapy sessions until there comes a time when she wants you there. Btw, a really good shrink can see right through the lies (the Great Actress comment), but it took me a long time before I admitted to any of my shrinks that I was lying. I've been in therapy off and on since age 15 and lied to every single one of them (as well as to myself) till this past year. And I'm 44 years old now. When I told my shrink I'd been acting all these years and had never allowed myself to be straight with anyone she just gave me a look that said, "So what's new?" Interesting that I thought I was fooling everyone, though believe me, I'm also quite the performer. Just got tired of performing and I hope eventually your girlfriend will too. Though--as in my case, the dissociative behavior (alter-ego) has proven helpful at times and given me an alternative way of dealing with things I couldn't handle, it's finally starting to sink in that it's time to move on. To at least get things to a point where Lorelai's in charge and not some "other"(my therapist says it's a creative avoidance technique). I don't know how much this helps, but hope it does some. You're not alone. There are a lot of people dealing with this type of thing. A suggestion? Maybe consider getting your own therapist--someone to help you deal with and better understand what you're going through. Wow, did I go through a lot to answer this post, btw. My password ceased to work (memory lapse on my part, probably) and I've tried countless times to re-register over these past couple of months. Finally got it to work today!
All the Best,
Lorelai
Posted by lorelai on December 31, 2002, at 12:50:47
In reply to Re: just wanted to wish you luck » Lorelai, posted by terramiller on October 10, 2002, at 22:16:30
> Most of what I felt at first was agitation, too. I would just bounce off the walls. It was really terrible. That was before the world of meds, so I really thought I was not going to make it.
>
> I also know what it feels like to feel responsible for your own kids. That can really be a stabilizing factor in your own healing process. You aren't likely to totally lose it because of being committed to your kids. The good/bad thing about kids, is sometimes they are the ones that can cause stuff to come up... like when they get to a certain age that you were when you were a kid.
>
> Everybody freaks out at first. You think you are the only one and that nobody else has a story anywhere close to yours. Somebody likely told you that a long time ago, or you became convinced of it because you kept your mouth shut and didn't tell anybody to keep safe.
>
> In your reading, may I gently advise you to start with the academic and be careful which "real life biographical" stories you read. You do not want to uncork more than you are ready for. I like a book by Christine Courtouis.... title is something like Incest /treatment of or something or other. I liked it so much that I bought my own copy. The reason why I liked it is because it's totally academic and nonemotional. You can learn a lot about Post Traumatic Stress as well as Dissociating on a general level. You can probably locate it in a library, which is where I ran across it first. I found it informative without being threatening.
>
> On the internet, Sidran (I think) has some really general information about dissociation that is very helpful for those trying to acquaint themselves with the term and issues.
>
> It's normal... at least it's normal for me :-).... to experience a caged feeling accompanied by panic and agitation. It's important to have calming and self soothing techniques in place and to practice them. (Believe it or not, my current calming choice is to watch Bear In The Big Blue House.... kid stuff calms me down a lot.) Find what works for you and give yourself permission to comfort yourself. Benzos are extremely helpful, but caring for yourself works longer and for the longer term.
>
> Just some thoughts. It helps me to talk to other people; helps me in my own process. I unfortunately have been where you seem to be.
>
> Take care,
> TerraTerra,
Just a quick note to apologize for my silence. I'm glad Sean posted to this thread and opened things up again. I tried and tried to post a reply to you back in October and again in November. And when I tried to re-register nothing happened. To tell you the truth, I worried I'd said something wrong in my posts and had been booted. So I gave up. Today's the first time I've been able to post in ages. So I just wanted to say thanks for your support during the tough times. Also that things are going well with my new therapist, I'm still seeing my old pdoc and I'm feeling much stronger and less chaotic these days. My family's noticed a positive change! And Alice--? She's still around. Just not quite as pronounced lately.
All the Best,
Lorelai
Posted by Sean01 on January 1, 2003, at 17:45:25
In reply to Re: just wanted to wish you luck » Sean01, posted by lorelai on December 31, 2002, at 12:33:24
> Like you, my boyfriend wants to help and has offered to speak to my therapist. I've okayed this in the past, but have since decided I'd rather not go that route. Not yet. It's tough to trust someone that deeply and I'm sure your girlfriend does trust you to a certain extent. It's funny you mention that Springsteen song because I've been listening to it lately and feel the same way. Anyway, as far as going behind your girlfriend's back to talk to her therapist--? Don't even think about it. For one, if the therapist has any ethics at all he/she will refuse to discuss the client behind her back. Also, the trust you've gained with your girlfriend thus far will be lost. I don't have answers for you. I wish I did. I just know that establishing trust with your girlfriend will take a long time and that maybe, one day, she'll trust you on a deep enough level to allow you into some therapy sessions with her. I've been with my boyfriend for nearly 3 years and still don't feel that I can let him in completely, though I love him very much. The main thing is, let her know you're there for her. It's a positive thing that you've chosen to study up on dissociative disorder (rather than running away) and if you're willing to live with this, then more power to ya. I know my friends and family have a tough time putting up with my problems, but I've managed to find a very small circle of people (my therapist, my shrink, my boyfriend and my best friend) who know I'm a good person at heart who just happens to disappear sometimes, grow very cold and distant and sometimes seem to not even be Lorelai anymore. I've been doing a lot of serious work with a therapist who specializes in these things. It's a scary thing when you've done things/said things you have zero memory of. When you've estranged family members and friends with your behavior and you have no recollection of said behavior. Sorry to've babbled on and on. All the best of luck to you and your girlfriend, Sean. I'm glad to hear she's in therapy and has a supportive boyfriend by her side. Believe me, if she doesn't already, she'll probably grow to appreciate having someone like you in her life. I just hope you'll steer clear of trying to get into her therapy sessions until there comes a time when she wants you there. Btw, a really good shrink can see right through the lies (the Great Actress comment), but it took me a long time before I admitted to any of my shrinks that I was lying. I've been in therapy off and on since age 15 and lied to every single one of them (as well as to myself) till this past year. And I'm 44 years old now. When I told my shrink I'd been acting all these years and had never allowed myself to be straight with anyone she just gave me a look that said, "So what's new?" Interesting that I thought I was fooling everyone, though believe me, I'm also quite the performer. Just got tired of performing and I hope eventually your girlfriend will too. Though--as in my case, the dissociative behavior (alter-ego) has proven helpful at times and given me an alternative way of dealing with things I couldn't handle, it's finally starting to sink in that it's time to move on. To at least get things to a point where Lorelai's in charge and not some "other"(my therapist says it's a creative avoidance technique). I don't know how much this helps, but hope it does some. You're not alone. There are a lot of people dealing with this type of thing. A suggestion? Maybe consider getting your own therapist--someone to help you deal with and better understand what you're going through. Wow, did I go through a lot to answer this post, btw. My password ceased to work (memory lapse on my part, probably) and I've tried countless times to re-register over these past couple of months. Finally got it to work today!
> All the Best,
> Lorelai
>
Lorelai...thanks so much for responding in such a thoughtful way. your words were very helpful. I agree that it would be a mistake to contact her therapist on my own. it is just frustrating when I read how often this condition is misdiagnosed (as something other than dissociative disorder) subjecting sufferers to a potentially protracted and off the mark treatment program that is missing the REAL problem. knowing that the true condition has a high succcess rate when properly diagnosed and treated exacerbates that frustration. I just pray that her therpaist IS one of the better ones who recognizes the REAL problem.
yes, it is extremely difficult to care so deeply and be in a relationship with someone who is afflicted with this disorder. because I understand the truth of what is happening, I don't judge her or "blame" her. I love her unconditionally. the core person is so incredibly charming, adorable, sexy, and loving - we are great friends and love each other's company. sadly, however, she is unable to stay "present" in that reality.
given the nature of this disorder - which fractures a person's personality into unintegrated, thoroughly distinct parts - predictably our relationship cycles through many different phases as she cycles from being present to "running away." one moment we will be inseparable and hopelessly adoring of each other - talk of marriage, of having children and spending a life together - and then, seemingly on cue, she will suddenly disappear, figuratively and literally. in fact it follows a very consistent pattern...as soon as our relationship reaches some milestone of particular closeness, trust, and intimacy, within 3 days she withdraws abruptly, and the girl I love and adore utterly vanishes. her voice changes, conversation changes, or stops calling and emailing, and becomes hard and even slightly mean-spirited. she'll forget the feelings, conversations, and actions of just a couple days prior...as if they never happened. when I invoke a reference to them she'll usually try to cover her tracks by pretending she remembers, but dismisses or rationalizes the suggestion that anything has changed. it's like she "remembers" more like in a dream. I can feel her struggling to keep her realities all together. literally we have been engaged and euphoric one day, and 3 days later she won't contact me or answer messsages. sometimes she has left a note in my car saying something like "I can't be in a relationship right now" or some other similar excuse. then a week or so later we're back together and the cycle starts afresh. this has happned about a dozen times in 16 months.
when her anxiety is most acute - which fortunately has been very rare - it is truly scary. her mind seems to freeze up entirely. her eyes can't focus on anything. her body movements are erratic. her words are stilted, barely lucid, and can't maintain context. even in less acute states, she struggles with maintaining simple context in a dialogue. when we chat online she seems to lose her place...I can "feel" her change...her typed words change style and tone.
at other times she has blurted out a stream of words that say somehting very bizarre and out of the blue. and then the next instant has no memory of having said them at all. taken by themselves they seem non-sensical, but in fact they usually contain reference to something that is part of the demoms that are tormenting her.
sorry, now it's me babbling. but I appreciate your sincerity and your unique perspective. I share a little more of her story so that you might understand the specifics a little more. there's a lot more to tell - for example about what is likely the cause of this disorder - but perhaps, if you're interested, I can talk about that another time.
please forgive the presumption for asking, but I have a question before I leave you for now - how aware are YOU of your "alters" and of your transiton into those alters? do you know the changes only because others tell you? or do you have an awareness yourself? is it a sharp awareness...or more like a dream? of course you have no obligation to answer, but if you are willing, I would be very curious to know.
again, thanks for listening and caring. it has already helped a great deal.
Sean
Posted by lorelai on January 1, 2003, at 20:57:26
In reply to Re: just wanted to wish you luck, posted by Sean01 on January 1, 2003, at 17:45:25
> Lorelai...
>
> thanks so much for responding in such a thoughtful way. your words were very helpful. I agree that it would be a mistake to contact her therapist on my own. it is just frustrating when I read how often this condition is misdiagnosed (as something other than dissociative disorder) subjecting sufferers to a potentially protracted and off the mark treatment program that is missing the REAL problem. knowing that the true condition has a high succcess rate when properly diagnosed and treated exacerbates that frustration. I just pray that her therpaist IS one of the better ones who recognizes the REAL problem.
>
> yes, it is extremely difficult to care so deeply and be in a relationship with someone who is afflicted with this disorder. because I understand the truth of what is happening, I don't judge her or "blame" her. I love her unconditionally. the core person is so incredibly charming, adorable, sexy, and loving - we are great friends and love each other's company. sadly, however, she is unable to stay "present" in that reality.
>
> given the nature of this disorder - which fractures a person's personality into unintegrated, thoroughly distinct parts - predictably our relationship cycles through many different phases as she cycles from being present to "running away." one moment we will be inseparable and hopelessly adoring of each other - talk of marriage, of having children and spending a life together - and then, seemingly on cue, she will suddenly disappear, figuratively and literally. in fact it follows a very consistent pattern...as soon as our relationship reaches some milestone of particular closeness, trust, and intimacy, within 3 days she withdraws abruptly, and the girl I love and adore utterly vanishes. her voice changes, conversation changes, or stops calling and emailing, and becomes hard and even slightly mean-spirited. she'll forget the feelings, conversations, and actions of just a couple days prior...as if they never happened. when I invoke a reference to them she'll usually try to cover her tracks by pretending she remembers, but dismisses or rationalizes the suggestion that anything has changed. it's like she "remembers" more like in a dream. I can feel her struggling to keep her realities all together. literally we have been engaged and euphoric one day, and 3 days later she won't contact me or answer messsages. sometimes she has left a note in my car saying something like "I can't be in a relationship right now" or some other similar excuse. then a week or so later we're back together and the cycle starts afresh. this has happned about a dozen times in 16 months.
>
> when her anxiety is most acute - which fortunately has been very rare - it is truly scary. her mind seems to freeze up entirely. her eyes can't focus on anything. her body movements are erratic. her words are stilted, barely lucid, and can't maintain context. even in less acute states, she struggles with maintaining simple context in a dialogue. when we chat online she seems to lose her place...I can "feel" her change...her typed words change style and tone.
>
> at other times she has blurted out a stream of words that say somehting very bizarre and out of the blue. and then the next instant has no memory of having said them at all. taken by themselves they seem non-sensical, but in fact they usually contain reference to something that is part of the demoms that are tormenting her.
>
> sorry, now it's me babbling. but I appreciate your sincerity and your unique perspective. I share a little more of her story so that you might understand the specifics a little more. there's a lot more to tell - for example about what is likely the cause of this disorder - but perhaps, if you're interested, I can talk about that another time.
>
> please forgive the presumption for asking, but I have a question before I leave you for now - how aware are YOU of your "alters" and of your transiton into those alters? do you know the changes only because others tell you? or do you have an awareness yourself? is it a sharp awareness...or more like a dream? of course you have no obligation to answer, but if you are willing, I would be very curious to know.
>
> again, thanks for listening and caring. it has already helped a great deal.
>
> Sean
>
Hey Sean,It's a little unnerving, reading what you say about your relationship's cycles. Mine, though somehow managing to last three years, goes through the same type of cycles. I'm not sure how many times we've broken up, but I think a good guess would be at least half a dozen times per year. It's gotten to the point where neither of us likes to tell our friends whether we're together (this week) or not. We're working on this though and I hope all turns out well. I know how tough it must be for him (for you too, in your relationship).
I'd like to hear more about your girlfriend, yes, if you'd like to share.
In answer to your question, I have an awareness of one alter--I call her "my Alice"--who has been with me (on a level I've been consciously aware of anyway) since I was 17. Alice rescues me from scary situations because she's streetwise and tough and knows how to do things--such as public speaking--that scare the hell out of me. When something is going wrong I "feel" myself slide into this alter. She talks to me, calms me down and tells me to give it a break. I didn't consider her an alter for years and saw no reason to ever bring her up in therapy, but I finally told my boyfriend about her, half-jokingly, and he insisted I tell my pdoc about her. When I did, she insisted I see another therapist who specializes in this disorder. Besides Alice, I know of no others, but have recently recounted a few spooky things to my therapist (For example: "someone" put an order for a movie into an online account for me, saving it for me to purchase later. Only problem is, no one else but me has access to my account. I have no recollection of doing this at ALL, but it couldn't have been anyone else. And it was a movie of a book I'm currently reading. So go figure. Things of this nature happen to me once in a while and it's disturbing).
As far as my awareness of Alice being sharp or dreamlike--I lose some of what's going on, depending on whether it's a horrible thing or just something I don't feel like dealing with. In the case of horrible things (like my drunken ex in my face, screaming obscenities at me) I've gone completely blank and don't recall anything after a certain point. In the case of things like public speaking, I know what's going on but it's all sort of surreal.
I was thinking about your girlfriend today and wondering how aware she is of what's going on with her--? Maybe you could recommend some reading material to her (check out suggestions from others in the above posts). She might recognize herself and be more open to at least bringing up Dissociative Disorder to her therapist.
Btw, my boyfriend describes my "going away" look as "shark eyes." He says I get this dead look and I'm just not there. It all sounds so familiar, what you say about your girlfriend. It's kind of strange to get other's perspectives. My best friend has it down to a science and, like you, can tell via e-mail when things aren't right with me. I also have bipolar disorder (or so they say).
Anyway, I go out of town often, so if you don't hear from me for a couple of days I'll get back to you as soon as I can.
Best,
Lorelai
P.S. What does your girlfriend do? I'm curious to know if she's a creative person. Just wondering. I'm a writer (fiction, book reviews, used to write poetry).
Posted by Dinah on January 2, 2003, at 12:31:44
In reply to More on Dissociative Disorder » Sean01, posted by lorelai on January 1, 2003, at 20:57:26
Lorelai, how has the expert worked out? Does she seem better able to help you than your original therapist? Is there any specific therapy for dissociative disorders?
My understanding is that Dissociative Identity Disorder isn't diagnosed if there is co-consciousness. Is that accurate? You've always seemed to be co-conscious with Alice.
Sorry to ask so many questions. :(
Thanks,
Dinah
Posted by lorelai on January 2, 2003, at 15:09:02
In reply to Re: More on Dissociative Disorder » lorelai, posted by Dinah on January 2, 2003, at 12:31:44
> Lorelai, how has the expert worked out? Does she seem better able to help you than your original therapist? Is there any specific therapy for dissociative disorders?
>
> My understanding is that Dissociative Identity Disorder isn't diagnosed if there is co-consciousness. Is that accurate? You've always seemed to be co-conscious with Alice.
>
> Sorry to ask so many questions. :(
>
> Thanks,
>
> DinahHi Dinah,
It's been a while. Good to hear from you! Yeah, lots of questions, but that's okay (: I just hope I can answer them well enough! I imagine this'll be a little on the long-winded side, lol.
The new therapist's very different. I like her, but it'll take some time for me to feel as comfortable with her as I felt with my old pdoc. We're still in the early stages of therapy, still digging around to see what's what. I had no idea this would be so intensive. A lot of stuff is coming up from my childhood--an abusive grandfather mainly--that I thought I'd put behind me (never goes away. Just digs in somewhere and keeps eating away at the psyche). The new therapist's a lot more knowledgeable in this area and so has been helping me more than my old pdoc had been (I do still see my old pdoc. Have to check in with her concerning meds, which I'm currently not taking--besides an occasional Ativan for anxiety attacks. My friends and family are keeping an eye on me and I have an understanding/agreement with my pdoc that I WILL let her know the moment I or my friends/family feel I need to be back on meds).
And yes, there are definitely specific therapies involved. My therapist says it'll involve working toward strengthening my sense of self so that there's more solid grounding and (hopefully) less need to dissociate. This is supposed to be a long process, possibly taking a few years or more. She mentioned a "stabilization" process and my need to learn more realistic (more adult-level) coping skills and life skills.
In answer to your question about Dissociative Identity Disorder and its diagnosis--okay, this is my understanding. There's a huge dissociative spectrum (kind of like in the case of my son, who's somewhere on the high functioning--though clearly language-challenged--end of the autism spectrum). I guess classic DID (used to be called Multiple Personality Disorder) would only apply to those patients whose alters are unconscious personalities (though when I first mentioned my alter to my pdoc and she discussed it with this new therapist, being unconscious of the alter didn't seem to be a prerequisite to being put into the Dissociative Disorder category. That was actually my first question for them: "WHY am I even aware of Alice in the first place? Shouldn't she be completely hidden from me?" And my therapist said, "Not necessarily").
There are also atypical dissociative disorders, which fall into the category of Dissociative Disorders Not Otherwise Specified (DDNOS). Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (though not officially considered DD) also falls into the dissociative category. I'm not sure where I fall, though I suspect it would be DDNOS. Then again, with my sometimes complete lapses of memory that occur, there could be more going on than meets the eye. My therapist seems to suspect so.
I'll try to keep posting here as things progress. Hope I answered your questions, Dinah!
All the Best,
Lorelai
Posted by judy1 on January 2, 2003, at 18:23:44
In reply to Re: More on Dissociative Disorder » Dinah, posted by lorelai on January 2, 2003, at 15:09:02
more informed about the DD spectrum so a lot more helpful to your progress. It does take a while to get the comfort level going, but I'm sure you'll get there. I have the DD-NOS dx too, and also lose time and discover I've travelled somewhere or bought something and not remembered doing so. Scary, isn't it? I still am on a boycott with my shrink and therp but that's because I'm completely in my denial phase. I'm glad that things are starting to work out for you and especially glad that you have such good support. take care, judy
Posted by Dinah on January 2, 2003, at 18:44:05
In reply to Re: More on Dissociative Disorder » Dinah, posted by lorelai on January 2, 2003, at 15:09:02
Thanks Lorelai,
I would be very interested in updates as things progress. Treatments for dissociative disorders seem all over the board. I've read books by experts where the books seem sound and reasonable and the treatment sensible. I've also read books by experts that seem... implausible. (I don't want to jump to any conclusions.) Then there are a large number of mental health professionals who don't even believe in the disorder at all. It's hard to get the balanced view that I would find helpful.
So I really appreciate your answers.
Dinah
Posted by Sean01 on January 2, 2003, at 21:48:37
In reply to More on Dissociative Disorder » Sean01, posted by lorelai on January 1, 2003, at 20:57:26
Lorelai...
thanks for your interest in learning more about my GF. first, your BF's description of "shark eyes" gave me chills. it describes exactly the look in MY GF's eyes. her face also seems to become "flatter"...less texture or shape. less life I suppose. it is spooky, but unmistakable to me.
I don't truly know how aware (co-conscious) she is of her other alters, nor am I sure exactly how many other alters there are. I would guess about 4 that I can distinguish. I think most are at least partly aware of the others, but I also think there is at least one which is completely unaware of the others...to the point of not recognizing ANYONE! ...including friends, family, or me. I have never "seen" this alter in a face to face, but have "seen" her online. there have been some very weird times when "someone" is online on her account, but doesn't acknowledge me. I have had a brief "converastion" with this alter online, and it has been very strange. she is harsh and profane. for the longest time we both thought someone had stolen her account password, because I would tell her what happened and she would deny it emphatically. she insisted it wasn't her and that someone must be online using her account. yet she would also confess that she has had other friends who have had very similar excperiences with this "other" person using her account. only after beginning to understand all of this and witnessing all the other bizarre manifestations did I start to suspect it was really her...in a very unconscious alter. I have "seen" this alter indirectly also in stories or events that I witness or that she tells me, where there is a major disconnect from logic, or time sequence, or context, or other events or circumstances I know about. that she has a truly unconscious alter is the only "explanation" that can bridge these otherwise disconnected, or logically incongruous events. fortunately this extreme is very rare.
her life reflects the predictable and classic symptoms of this fractured set of personalities. memory loss, total or even partial or dreamlike, creates a life of chaos and "disorder." money is hard to manage, bills don't get paid, commitments, dates, and meetings are missed. work suffers. relationships with family, friends, and lovers are sporadic and full of drama. weird things are a daily occurence - weird conversations, events that don't make sense, behavior that is erratic. she sometimes tells me the most hard to believe stories, and there have been times when something "slips" to expose that whatever she said was pure make believe, or gross exaggeration of a real event.
as for her past and the root cause behind all this, I fear the worst. apparently 98% of DID sufferers have been the victims of sexual abuse. when I first got to know her - when these strange happenings were new to me, and thus the most bizarre - my instincts were that she had been sexually abused by her father. something was just not right, something just didn't add up. any inference I would make - very delicately of course - as to this possibility, she initially would dismiss angrily. later she would admit to not knowing whether it happened or not. then she decided that the real problem was abondonment by her mother. there is no question that this is true, but she was also, at minimum, seriously abused emotionally by her father...which I learned as she grew to trust me more and would reveal more and more to me. eventually she confessed that she had been sexually abused by her mother's boyfriend...when she was about 14 or 15 I think (she's 29 now).
recently she had lunch with her father, and admitted to me after that she felt very uncomfortable around him. she sees him about once every few months. she had breast implants about 2 years ago, and she said she felt him "looking at them" and being very fidgety and ill at ease. other stories she has told paint a father who is obsessively controlling and psycholgically abusive and manipulative. taken together it paints a scary portrait of the classic sexually abusive parent! BTW, she had a son at 16 with a BF who became very physically abusive.
so, it is painfully clear she has gotten it from all sides. it's incredible to me that through all this she is such a wonderfully beautiful person! yet, it is so incredibly sad, and makes me very angry that the people who she should most be able to trust and protect her have hurt her and failed her so horribly! that a child subjected to such mind warping trauma would seek the safety - for self survival - in an alter reality or personality is not hard to understand. and hence the very real psychoses of this disorder.
out of pure survial instincts her child's mind "adapted" to the very real danger to her life and mental well-being by creating a "place" to run away to that was safe, or to another personality better equipped to deal with the threat.
imagine now as an adult trying to assimilate or reconcile these distinct realities that have been so critical to her survival? her mind is wired to respond to certain stimuli that trigger the self preservation mechanism. and those triggers are unconscious, deeply encoded to the brain's adapted wiring - they are totally out of her control. with my GF, when the trigger is "switched" the transformation can be sudden and dramatic.
it logically is probably easier on an already traumatized mind to be unconscious of the alters, because to be aware of them would be such a hard to resolve continuous riddle that would thus be incredibly distracting and totally dysfunctional. of course the confounding dilemma of this is that if you're not aware of the alters, how do you know you have a problem? and how easy it is to be delusional and make excuses or rationalize - even when confronted by the people who care about you!?
you manage to balance - barely - all the weird things happening around you - and life goes on...with the pattern stuck in a non-ending vicious cycle of chaos and drama. so it is with my GF.both her parents seem, at best, unusually neurotic. her mom suffers the same disorder I think. scarier still, my GF very recently told me her son (now 12) has this "strange" personality that unnerves her. says at times he doesn't act like "himself." she doesn't recognize him. she described to me how his voice changes and his face grows dark. she says she notices it when she talks about his father, who he barely knows, but has been mostly uncaring and totally out of his life. she was unaware that as she described this "alter" personality in her son, she was describing herself. he has depended on her his whole life - they are very close. so it is no wonder that he would learn HER coping skills! it is so very very sad, and breaks my heart.
I have not spoken to her since the day after xmas. we have been "broken up" (again) for the last few weeks, yet had remained good friends. and the core person returns every few days and warmly embraces me, and talks of how much she misses me, how she just wishes I would come to her house and get down on one knee and propose to her, and tell her to "just shut up!" (her words - meaning no more going around in circles talking about it, and just doing it!)
when we last spoke I had told her my daughter (she's 11) had bought her a xmas gift, as had I (for her and her son) and that we wanted to get together to give them to them. she said that would be nice, and said that she would call me the next morning to arrange to meet that day. I have not heard from her at all. we have been online at the same time - she knows I'm online - but nothing. no phone call, no email, nothing. this is a pattern that has recurred innumerable times in our relationship. when we do eventually speak, she has no memory of what she said, or planned, or committed to do. she just "goes away."
I have not contacted her either, not out of spite or vengeance, but because I feel her core needs to feel the "distance" and, hopefully, become very aware of my not being present in her life. I suppose my hope is that her core - who genuinely loves and adores me (and my daughter) - will not want to have me out of her life, and will not allow the alters to keep driving me away. I thoroughly realize that this is very simplistic and not a realistic "solution." she is not likely to just suddenly "snap out of it" - for any reason. but I also don't really know what else to do at this point.
not to worry - I have a great life, a great daughter, and I've been blessed with a strong sense of self. but I do love her and her son very deeply! I feel so utterly helpless not to be able to help her shed these demons, and finally be able to live the full, happy, peaceful life she and her son deserve!
her core person is so beautiful, brave, charming, and full of life - and she has been a GREAT mom! In many ironic ways she is my hero! I am often amazed that she has become who she is given what she has endured! it is why I am unwilling to abandon her. that is what every other person close to her in her life has done. I don't want to do anything that exacerbates that cycle - rather I want to be part of breaking that insidous cycle.
sorry for the ramble, but I hope you can feel just how deeply this worries me, and how deeply I care. thanks for listening. good night.
Tad
Posted by judy1 on January 3, 2003, at 10:49:19
In reply to Re: More on Dissociative Disorder, posted by Sean01 on January 2, 2003, at 21:48:37
Tad,
What an incredible person you are- I know first hand how difficult it is to have a relationship with some one like myself and all the baggage I've accumulated. My husband is confused almost daily by my behavior but I think he has committed himself for the long haul and I sense that in your post with your feelings toward your girlfriend. To give you hope, I constantly threaten divorce and then forget about it and I think she is probably in the same category. Know that you are in for a lot of emotional ups and downs, but I think by letting her know your commitment she will eventually appreciate that support and come around. She is very fortunate to find such a compassionate person and I wish you both a lot of luck in the long path ahead of you. (I also wish dearly she would allow you to come to therapy, I finally did with my spouse and it helped enormously in his understanding and my relief that he really did want to help me despite all my 'flaws') I wish you both the best, and let us know how things work out. P.S. For many people with DD, the holidays are incredibly difficult, so that could explain what's going on know. take care, judy
Posted by Sean01 on January 3, 2003, at 20:02:09
In reply to Re: More on Dissociative Disorder » Sean01, posted by judy1 on January 3, 2003, at 10:49:19
Judy...
thanks for your words of support and comfort. frankly, it is interesting - and telling - that both you and Lorelai "sound" so normal, indeed ABOVE "normal"...you are both self evidently thoughtful, caring, compassionate, articulate, intelligent, and very clear thinking. what it reaffirms to me is that the core person who is afflicted with this disorder is paradoxically a very strong, decent, loving person....which is exactly what I feel about my own GF. yet apparently these adorable and lovable characterisitics can disappear and change dramatically.
It seems the mind somehow has assumed that there is something in these qualities that is a threat or makes you vulnerable to pain and hurt. so the "adapted" personality that evolves (emerges) to deal with these perceived threats in many respects is the OPPOSITE of the core personality.
My GF, who is warm, cuddling, sweet, kind, silly, full of laughter, sensuous, and beams a radiant smile, can transform instantly to become cold, detached, mean spirited, rude, unthoughtful, inappropriately promiscuous, and her gorgeous smile replaced by dark, piercing, "shark eyes."
sometimes she has a sense, after the fact, that she has said or done something "out of character," and will later ask me "did I say something mean to you last night?" other times she has seemingly no recollection whatsoever, so when I try to explain what mean or inappropriate thing she may have said or done, she has no idea what I'm talking about, and thinks I'M crazy, or making a mountain out of a molehill. I now understand that it makes no sense, indeed is kinda unfair, to even try and confront her with her "alter" behavior. I accept and understand that it is not HER, and she is not doing or saying any of it to be mean or hurtful.
I still have not heard from her since last we spoke - over a week ago - about getting together with my daughter to give she and her son xmas gifts. Though she had said she would call the next morning to arrange a time, I feel I should contact her and simply let her know I'm still here and still love and support her ...without "blaming" or accusing her of not calling me back as she had said she would. yes, my daughter is a little hurt and confused, but she's ok. I know that my GF doesn't "know" she has been inconsiderate by not calling me back. I think, in fact, the idea of my daughter giving her a present, and/or my giving her and her son a present, is an intimacy "trigger" and is exactly why she has just "gone away."
what do you think? do you think I should call her, or contact her, and not wait for her to call? ordinarily I suppose I would be angry that she hasn't called, and would refuse to call HER. but there is obviously nothing "ordinary" about any of this. I worry about her, and I fear that she may think I have ignored HER, because she doesn't remember it was she who was supposed to call. it all sounds so bizarre, but I suspect you understand.
I've got to run, but thanks again for the dialogue. it really does help.
Sean
Posted by lorelai on January 3, 2003, at 22:02:59
In reply to Re: More on Dissociative Disorder, posted by Sean01 on January 3, 2003, at 20:02:09
Hi all,
Just a short note. I'm out of town and trying to type this on a laptop (hate them! All that pounding of keys just to get a word in, lol). Anyway, when I'm home again (in a couple of days)and on a REAL computer I'll answer your posts.
Best,
Lorelai
Posted by judy1 on January 4, 2003, at 12:06:43
In reply to Re: More on Dissociative Disorder, posted by Sean01 on January 3, 2003, at 20:02:09
Wow did your words ever hit home. I, too, can be particularly vicious to the person I care about the most- my husband. I don't remember a lot of what I say either, and I read your GF's tone as more defensive than angry when accusing you of being 'crazy'. I promise you she is afraid of her outbursts (those remembered or not) because it means her core personality isn't in control. I think your call was appropriate, and if you want to leave one more message that you love her and are here for her that can't hurt either. I feel so badly for you- have you considered counseling to help you deal with her? Especially if you are as committed as your posts show. As I mentioned before holidays are particularly difficult for not just people with DD but also those with affective disorders. Maybe in the next week or so you will see a return to 'normal'. Just one more note, she has been betrayed by the men she most cared about in her life, so the trust and love she feels/will feel for you comes slowly and at a price of facing old demons. (been there). Take care of yourself and your daughter, I think you are a wonderful person- judy
Posted by lorelai on January 5, 2003, at 20:17:09
In reply to Re: More on Dissociative Disorder, posted by Sean01 on January 3, 2003, at 20:02:09
I'm wondering how things are going, Sean. Have you reconnected with your gf? If I were in her place, I'd WANT the person I love to call me. Just wanted to post a short one and say I hope the best for you. Have had a lot going on lately and to tell the truth, I'm sort of taking a nosedive, moodwise, the past few days. Trying to keep things on an even keel and it's not easy. I find a lot in common with your girlfriend and can empathize. Just wanted to say I hope things work out. It's never easy though. I've gone all my adult life saying that all I want is peace in my life, a good relationship and even a mundane day-to-day rut. I would welcome that! But I can't control what comes out of my mouth, seem to always hurt the ones I love best (like Judy mentioned--the anger is too often directed at our loved ones) and most of the time I can't even remember what I've said or why all this anger is being directed toward me. Hard for me to understand that I've created a lot of my own problems, though often unwittingly. So it's very confusing and sad at times. Sorry to be a downer tonight.
~L
Posted by Sean01 on January 5, 2003, at 22:44:51
In reply to Re: More on Dissociative Disorder » Sean01, posted by lorelai on January 5, 2003, at 20:17:09
Lorelai...
Thanks for caring. I'm sorry you've had a rough few days. actually my GF contacted me today, via an instant message. just as I suspected she did not remember that she was supposed to call me about getting together to exchange presents over a week ago. when she contacted me today, she asked why I was mad at her. she assumed that since I had not contacted her over the last several days it was because I was mad at her. it is so interewsting - however sad - because the exact same cycle recurs once again. she said she missed me and was very sweet. we chatted a lot today, and I could feel her shift a few times. I'm getting more tuned to the subtleties.
I know she suffers much as you do. she too will say that she just wants peace, someone to love and take care of her, and the friendship like she and I have. she will speak of getting married. she will openly invite it. yet as soon she begins to let herself believe that this is exactly what she can have with me, and begins to let herself enjoy it, she sabotages it or runs away.
imagine the internal conflict this causes - for both of you?! internally for both of you rages a torturous battle between two strongly passionate "personalities" in direct polar conflict with each other...both firmly believing that they know whats best for you. both vying for control. what an absoute nightmare! actually an alternating existence of hopeful dreams and fearful nightmares, trapped in an endlessly vicious cycle.
in the "normal" thinking mind of a fully integrated person, these kinds of conflicts exist of course, but are ultimately reconciled through a "normal" process of rationally sorting out what truly is in that person's best interest or is truly what they want.
yet in my GF's mind, and yours I assume, this is simply not possible. as you sayt, no matter how much you wish it to be different...you don't have ANY control over it. and it has nothing to do with your intelligence or desire. since the two distinct personalites are NOT integrated, and both claim and assert a SEPARATE need to survive and dominate, the opportunity to "work it out" in your mind, to reconcile two opposing emtoitons or thoughts, never has a chance, because you don't have ONE mind, you have TWO (or more even more likely). it is in reality not possible.
and so the vicious cycle - the one personality provokes and thus invokes the other. the mind that embraces trust, love, happiness, and peace triggers the "protector" that has been deeply conditioned/programmed to interpret these qualities as dangerous and doomed to hurt. then, eventually, the protector, which deprives you of the love, happpiness, peace, and even friends, family, and lovers that you need to survive, provokes the loving personality to emerge once again. and so it goes, round and round.
but I believe in the capacity of the human mind and spirit. if your mind can rewire itself as a child, then it can rewire itself as an adult. clearly the forces that afflicted your child's mind had to be powerful enough to cause such a short circuit in your brain development, so similarly powerful forces must be brought to bare now to mend the damaged circuitry. but however difficult, the mind DOES have the power to heal this injury!
most importantly, you, like my GF, are clearly a very decent, good, kind, loving person who is worthy of the unconditional love and support of your husband, friends, and family. work hard at staying in the PRESENT as long as possible under the healthy and empowering influence of their love, support, and trust.
I don't walk in your shoes, so I won't pretend to know what you go through, or how hard this is to do. but your core values the preciousness of life and the love of the people who you care about, so remain determined to demand the destiny that you want, need and DESERVE!
I am committed to not giving up on my GF, and I will do everything I can to help her choose and ultimately attain that destiny for HER life!
be well my friend.
Posted by lorelai on January 6, 2003, at 0:15:47
In reply to This therapist sounds better » lorelai, posted by judy1 on January 2, 2003, at 18:23:44
> more informed about the DD spectrum so a lot more helpful to your progress. It does take a while to get the comfort level going, but I'm sure you'll get there. I have the DD-NOS dx too, and also lose time and discover I've travelled somewhere or bought something and not remembered doing so. Scary, isn't it? I still am on a boycott with my shrink and therp but that's because I'm completely in my denial phase. I'm glad that things are starting to work out for you and especially glad that you have such good support. take care, judy
Judy,
I THOUGHT I answered this post. Was sure I had. Then looked again and didn't find one. Life's been a little weird lately. Very depressed and feeling suffocated by my job (phobic as hell about my job, actually, because it's very public and I go through times when I can't DEAL with people. I go to the mall and it feels like every person there is sucking energy out of me, if that makes any sense). I'm worried that I'm on the verge of quitting yet another job. I quit my last one in a fit of hysterics and don't want a repeat. Sorry to be rambling. Thanks for listening. Do you have problems holding a job? You don't have to answer. I've never held a job for long and I have a Master's degree that seems to be going to waste. I keep hoping I'll someday figure out how to make a living from home, but then I worry I'll debilitate myself further (because staying home seems to aggravate my natural sense of agoraphobia). I don't WANT to be agoraphobic. My pdoc suggested Geodon (some sort of antipsychotic, I think. And I say, "I'm NOT psychotic," but really I'm beginning to think she may have a point). Sorry to go on about this. Just feeling really lousy and I guess sorry for myself. I want to learn how to get beyond all this. I want to be able to attend a wedding reception without having to run outside every 10 minutes to BREATHE (because crowded rooms make me feel like throwing up!). Ah, well. I guess I just needed to get this out. Gonna go to sleep now.
~L
Posted by Dinah on January 6, 2003, at 18:52:03
In reply to Re: More on Dissociative Disorder » Dinah, posted by lorelai on January 2, 2003, at 15:09:02
What happens if the various aspects of yourself really really don't like one another? Are there specific techniques that should be employed?
Posted by judy1 on January 7, 2003, at 20:37:41
In reply to Re: This therapist sounds better » judy1, posted by lorelai on January 6, 2003, at 0:15:47
Do you have problems holding a job?
Lord, yes- I'm on SSD now. I have post grad degrees, and feel like I'm wasting my life too. So this is the year of volunteer work, I don't think I can work with abused children but hopefully children with disabilities- I have a lot of experience riding horses and there are programs available for kids here that I think I can be part of. Do you absolutely have to work for financial reasons? Does your company have disability? Just asking because you sound like you're having a rough time now and maybe w/o the work stress for a while you'll be able to get a handle on things.
but then I worry I'll debilitate myself further (because staying home seems to aggravate my natural sense of agoraphobia). I don't WANT to be agoraphobic. My pdoc suggested Geodon (some sort of antipsychotic, I think. And I say, "I'm NOT psychotic," but really I'm beginning to think she may have a point).
Well I'm agoraphobic too, part of my panic disorder and also a prominent symptom when I'm stressed and depressed. I think we talked about anti-psychotics before, and yes Geodon is an AP. I just don't believe (and my shrink doesn't either) in taking an AP if you're not psychotic. And being agoraphobic is not psychotic. There are really no meds specifically for agoraphobia- if its a result of panic then benzos can help and of course CBT. Do you find it's worse right now then at other times? Could it be because you are so stressed about work?
Sorry to go on about this. Just feeling really lousy and I guess sorry for myself.
Please don't apologize. I truly hope tomorrow is a better day for you. Take care of yourself- Judy
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