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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dave1 on March 1, 2002, at 10:09:57
Hi,
I was wondering how depression got started for other people. For me, I was involved in a religious group and got depressed when I started to believe god had condemned me.
Can anyone else relate their beginnings of depression?
Thanks,
Dave
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 1, 2002, at 11:16:49
In reply to How depression starts, posted by Dave1 on March 1, 2002, at 10:09:57
Dave,
I read your post, and I am interested n talking more with you . You could email me or post something else clarifying what you mean by "condemmened".
Lou
Posted by mist on March 1, 2002, at 12:31:47
In reply to How depression starts, posted by Dave1 on March 1, 2002, at 10:09:57
My depression began when I was a child. Everything was wrong, and there was no way out. I believe if I had been in a different family environment I wouldn't have gotten depressed. At least not so young.
Posted by Penny on March 1, 2002, at 15:24:01
In reply to How depression starts, posted by Dave1 on March 1, 2002, at 10:09:57
For me, it depends on which aspect of depression you're referring to. Much of my more mild but chronic depression started when I was about 10 years old, which was during a particularly rough time in my family. The major stuff, however, didn't begin for me until I graduated from college & found myself on my on for the first time. I think part of it was being overwhelmed, but despite my circumstances improving over time, my depression runs rampant. It just keeps coming back.
Penny
Posted by Mark H. on March 1, 2002, at 19:48:23
In reply to How depression starts, posted by Dave1 on March 1, 2002, at 10:09:57
For me, depression begins (in each cycle) with multiple thought-streams: obsessions about topics of interest, work-related issues, perhaps something emotionally laden but intellectually irrelevant, repetitious thoughts with little meaning, and at least one music track -- all simulataneously occuring along with whatever I also choose to be thinking about or working on. This uncontrollable "multi-tasking" of the mind is always my first symptom.
Thank you for asking.
Mark H.
Posted by Dinah on March 1, 2002, at 19:53:50
In reply to Re: How depression starts, posted by Mark H. on March 1, 2002, at 19:48:23
That is absolutely fascinating Mark. That is exactly how my depressive episodes END. Isn't it funny how our brains work.
Posted by Penny on March 1, 2002, at 22:59:13
In reply to Re: How depression starts, posted by Mark H. on March 1, 2002, at 19:48:23
That is quite interesting. I don't know that in all this time I've learned quite how to predict my depressive episodes. I do know, however, that when I'm in one, I form certain 'obsessions,' such as researching things to death. Lately, it's been researching anything and everything about my meds. And it's as though I can't stop thinking about those things, analyzing what I have found out and sharing that information. Friends and coworkers tell me I think too much. Ha! As if I can turn off my brain...
Posted by trouble on March 2, 2002, at 0:21:12
In reply to Re: How depression starts » Mark H., posted by Penny on March 1, 2002, at 22:59:13
Hi,
Y'all are a whole lot more insightful about this than I even thought possible.
Now that you've proven it can be done, I'll try to be more alert.
For me it's been lifelong, don't recall not being depressed, but there are cycles and remissions and varying levels of functioning.
Usually I just realize one day that the dishes have been sitting in a sour soapy sink, I'm not answering the phone or checking the mail, my appetites been off, and I look like Ted Kazinski.
Then I start wishing I was dead, and at that point I realize uh-oh, I'm in it. Pathetic. But maybe things can be different next time, anyways thanks for your inspirational posts.trouble
Posted by Dave1 on March 4, 2002, at 9:44:53
In reply to Re: How depression starts, posted by Mark H. on March 1, 2002, at 19:48:23
> For me, depression begins (in each cycle) with multiple thought-streams: obsessions about topics of interest, work-related issues, perhaps something emotionally laden but intellectually irrelevant, repetitious thoughts with little meaning, and at least one music track -- all simulataneously occuring along with whatever I also choose to be thinking about or working on. This uncontrollable "multi-tasking" of the mind is always my first symptom.
>
> Thank you for asking.
>
> Mark H.HI,
Yes, for me also, the depression is a result of
obsessing over some crazy idea. With religion
it was death and condemnation (LOU). At work
it obsessing that I was going to get sued,or
hurt someone because my work was substandard.
And so on. After awhile these thoughts caused me to get depressed.I've tried drugs for OCD but sofar no luck
Dave
Posted by Lini on March 4, 2002, at 10:55:36
In reply to Re: How depression starts, posted by Dave1 on March 4, 2002, at 9:44:53
thanks for asking the question. . . i would have to say that it starts for me when i lose control over something and it becomes obvious to me that no amount of effort on my part is going to change something, if i can't figure something out with logic or if i get scared, i can't do anything helpful for myself.
the first identifiable depression was when i returned from living abroad and had to readjust to America kinda suddenly, intertwined with my boyfriend breaking up with me, and childhood issues surfacing. full blown break down.
relationship dynamics are the hardest thing for me to deal with, and looking back, there have been several depressions around relationship dissapointments, probably starting when i was ten or eleven years old.
i know what you mean about the obsessions. it's like i am standing on one side of a door and i simply have to know what is in the room behind the door, even though i can tell that knowing it isn't going to change anything. in fact is probably something i know already. and then, the door gets opened, and nothing has changed, and being in the room makes me want to die. i don't know how else to explain it. the phone gets turned off, i call in sick for days and the Merlot starts getting poured at odd hours. i haven't hit a low like the one a year and a half ago, because of the meds without a doubt.
Posted by Dave1 on March 5, 2002, at 13:20:04
In reply to Re: How depression starts, posted by Lini on March 4, 2002, at 10:55:36
Hi Lou,
Thanks for your interest in my situation.
When I say I felt condemned by God, I guess I mean I feel I did things that would keep me out of Heaven, or whatever you want to call it. I have OCD as well depression (as it seems like some of the other people who posted also have).When I was younger I got really involved with Christianity through my church youth group. I constantly thought about heaven and eternal life. Because of my OCD, I would get thoughts that I felt were from God telling me to perform rituals or else I wouldn't have eternal life. After disobeying these thoughts, I started to believe I was condemned.
I know this sounds weird, but that is the nature of OCD, or possibly some delusional thinking.
Also, I was only a teenager at the time, whereas now I'm a 37 year old adult.Dave
Posted by pedr on March 5, 2002, at 14:14:19
In reply to How depression starts, posted by Dave1 on March 1, 2002, at 10:09:57
Hey Dave,
this is a question close to everyone's heart I bet. For me it is clear-cut as glass:0 -> 19yrs: very very happy, self-effacing, academically excellent, great set of mates, resilient, dependable
19yrs : get dumped by first love
20yrs -> 27yrs : deep depression, obsessive thinking, intense anxiety, vulnerable to any kind of adverse eventAll professionals I've seen agree that I'd set up belief systems very susceptible to rejection before I got dumped and I have agree, in view of the severe reaction I had to rejection. But for me, my life is in 2 perfectly distinct pieces.
Good question - nice to get it off my chest.
pete.
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 5, 2002, at 14:40:31
In reply to Re: How depression starts --- TO LOU, posted by Dave1 on March 5, 2002, at 13:20:04
Dave;
I am glad that you responded to me for your post about "condemnation" struck me in my heart. I, too, wondered about what happens after a person dies and if there would be "condemnation". In telling my experiance on this board, I am trying to tell what happenened to me that changed my life in the most dramatic way. I can tell you that in what was revealed to me in my experiance, . The revelation opened up when I forgave. Forgivness opens up the first door no matter what religion you are. I happen to be jewish so the revelation was given to me in terms that I could understnd. The Rider on the white horse , to me, was Moses and would lead me to the Promised Land, out from slavery . To a Pentacostal it would be the Holy Ghost that would lead them to all truth. To a Moslem it could be Mulhammmad. To an atheist it could b Madalyn Murry O'hara. To a scientologist it could be L. Ron Hubbard and so forth. I had a friend that was a Christian and he told me that the Anointed One said,"Unless you forgive men, my Father in heaven will not forgive you." Now if anyone is going to go down the Road that leads to the Crown of Life, then they would first have to forgive. My Christian friend also told me that the Anointed One said, " You shall know the mysterys." To me, life after death was a mystery, and on the Road I was given a revelation about that mysterey. Would you like to know what was revealed to me?
Lou
Lou
Posted by Dave1 on March 5, 2002, at 18:00:28
In reply to Re: How depression starts --- TO LOU » Dave1, posted by Lou Pilder on March 5, 2002, at 14:40:31
> Dave;
> I am glad that you responded to me for your post about "condemnation" struck me in my heart. I, too, wondered about what happens after a person dies and if there would be "condemnation". In telling my experiance on this board, I am trying to tell what happenened to me that changed my life in the most dramatic way. I can tell you that in what was revealed to me in my experiance, . The revelation opened up when I forgave. Forgivness opens up the first door no matter what religion you are. I happen to be jewish so the revelation was given to me in terms that I could understnd. The Rider on the white horse , to me, was Moses and would lead me to the Promised Land, out from slavery . To a Pentacostal it would be the Holy Ghost that would lead them to all truth. To a Moslem it could be Mulhammmad. To an atheist it could b Madalyn Murry O'hara. To a scientologist it could be L. Ron Hubbard and so forth. I had a friend that was a Christian and he told me that the Anointed One said,"Unless you forgive men, my Father in heaven will not forgive you." Now if anyone is going to go down the Road that leads to the Crown of Life, then they would first have to forgive. My Christian friend also told me that the Anointed One said, " You shall know the mysterys." To me, life after death was a mystery, and on the Road I was given a revelation about that mysterey. Would you like to know what was revealed to me?
> Lou
> LouHi Lou,
Sure, let's hear it.Bye,
Dave
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 5, 2002, at 21:46:54
In reply to Re: How depression starts --- TO LOU, posted by Dave1 on March 5, 2002, at 18:00:28
Dave;
In Judeism, we read the Psalms and the prophets. The prophet Isaiah said that "All of us like sheep have gone astray." A Psalm written by king David of ancient Isreal says that "The Lord is my Shepherd". "Though I walk through the Valley of The Shadow of Death I will fear no evil." "For you are with me." "And I will dwell in the House of the Lord forever." I knew a man that was a Christian and he told me that the Anointed One said,"I am the Good Shepherd. The good shepherd gives his life for the sheep" "My sheep hear my voice---and I give them eternal life and they shall never perish.
Dave, I have walked through The Valley of the Shadow of Death. I have felt the comfort of The Sheperd being with me. For I was astray, but I was found. For a good sheperd will go after one of it's lost sheep. I fear no evil for I know that I will dwell in the House of the Lord forever. For the City of Peace is the House of the Lord, and the Crown of Life is Etrnal Life.
Lou
Posted by Zo on March 5, 2002, at 23:37:31
In reply to Re: How depression starts » Mark H., posted by Penny on March 1, 2002, at 22:59:13
Penny, why isn't that mania, then? Or hypomania? And isn't episodic depression more of a mood disorder? Or am I splitting hairs?
Educate me!
Zo
Posted by Automated Lady on March 6, 2002, at 7:31:45
In reply to Re: How depression starts, posted by Dave1 on March 4, 2002, at 9:44:53
That's really weird - I'd never even thought about that.
I look back and I know that I have FELT the way I do when depressed (empty, numb, powerless and worthless) since my teens, but for me what distinguishes serious depression from just feeling bad is when I feel those feelings AND stop functioning "normally".
IT's like the ways of escaping from being in pain (self-harm, compulsive eating, sleeping, living life at one remove from reality, avoiding human contact) take me over and I am ruled by them rather than them being useful to me. Does that make sense?
It happened when I started uni because I simply never learnt how to live normally there, or anywhere since. The old patterns were taken away and all the new ones I developed were harmful to me. I am still trying to escape from them. Argh
AL
Posted by Penny on March 6, 2002, at 9:28:12
In reply to Re: How depression starts » Penny, posted by Zo on March 5, 2002, at 23:37:31
Zo,
I don't know that it's not mania. Just never been diagnosed that way. Then again, my last two pdocs didn't pay attention to anything unless I said I wanted to kill myself. Actually, the first never (EVER) even asked if I was suicidal...can we say lawsuit waiting to happen?
But, my new doc, I think, is on to something, with my now being a "Mood Disorders NOS" diagnosee'. So, yes, I am classed as having a mood disorder, and not a personality disorder (didn't know if you caught the schizoaffective thread), tho' sometimes I think if they only spent a little more time with me...
But, I suppose the reason they haven't classed me as manic is b/c my mood stays fairly low. Never really high. I don't meet the 'decreased need for sleep' criteria (though I guess I do occasionally meet the decreased sleep criteria - can't sleep even if I want to). I don't have increased energy.
I don't know. I see my pdoc on Friday, and I think it's going to be an interesting discussion. Though I think my meds are finally kicking in again since I don't currently feel like killing myself...
Thanks for asking. Sorry for rambling!
Penny> Penny, why isn't that mania, then? Or hypomania? And isn't episodic depression more of a mood disorder? Or am I splitting hairs?
>
> Educate me!
> Zo
Posted by Zo on March 7, 2002, at 3:02:24
In reply to Re: How depression starts » Zo, posted by Penny on March 6, 2002, at 9:28:12
> I don't meet the 'decreased need for sleep' criteria (though I guess I do occasionally meet the decreased sleep criteria - can't sleep even if I want to). I don't have increased energy.
Oh, that. What the hell do they know. These "criteria," which are all so LAME, ought to be considered instead the most general of guidelines. This is how my Bipolar II didn't happen to get dxed for seventeen years, can we say Duh. Because they were looking to the DSM, not to the patient.
Zo
Posted by Penny on March 7, 2002, at 9:34:35
In reply to Re: How depression starts, posted by Zo on March 7, 2002, at 3:02:24
Zo,
So, I've been paying a bit more attention to how I've been feeling, since your message, and what I've noticed is that after nearly two weeks on Celexa, I think what I'm experiencing could definitely be described as hypomania. I said before that I don't meet the 'decreased need for sleep' criteria...but after the past two days, I'm not so sure. Had very little sleep last night and feel like the energizer bunny...have been extremely lethargic for a while now (due to the depression) and right now have more energy than I know what to do with...
I'm thankful for your ideas on this. Don't know why I'm so concerned with having a proper diagnosis, but I am.
Question: is this going to become more cyclical? I mean, I suppose it already is (and I've described in the past that my moods 'cycle' rapidly, but I'm rarely ever in the same place for too long), but more definitively?
I think I have a difficult time remember what it's like to feel 'up' when I'm so down, and the depressive episodes have certainly been longer lasting than my 'up' periods. But I think I feel more up than I have in a long time. It's better than feeling suicidal, but still quite weird. And I think you hit the nail on the head with your comments.
thanks again.
Penny> > I don't meet the 'decreased need for sleep' criteria (though I guess I do occasionally meet the decreased sleep criteria - can't sleep even if I want to). I don't have increased energy.
>
> Oh, that. What the hell do they know. These "criteria," which are all so LAME, ought to be considered instead the most general of guidelines. This is how my Bipolar II didn't happen to get dxed for seventeen years, can we say Duh. Because they were looking to the DSM, not to the patient.
>
> Zo
Posted by Zo on March 8, 2002, at 1:25:22
In reply to Re: How depression starts » Zo, posted by Penny on March 7, 2002, at 9:34:35
Hi Penny,
I've been told, more than once, that med-induced mania isn't diagnostice of anything. More horse pucky. Bipolar II is precisely so devestating because it can take years--and years--for all those not-quite-disastrous symptoms to add up. I'm sorry, did you cycle before Celexa? And, this is not something to trifle with, in my experience. Have you seen your pdoc yet? Where is he/she at on all this? It can get soooo serious.
Zo
Posted by Penny on March 8, 2002, at 8:26:35
In reply to Re: How depression starts » Penny, posted by Zo on March 8, 2002, at 1:25:22
Zo,
Thanks for your thoughts on this! I really appreciate having someone to bounce these ideas off of...
My moods are just all over the place. Don't know what to think right now, as I was 'flying high' the past couple of days and now I can feel myself heading downhill AGAIN. That would be the feeling I'm most familiar with.
I see my pdoc today. Saw a therapist (not mine, as she is on maternity leave, but a 'substitute') yesterday, but, of course, she doesn't have a picture of what I was like before so she couldn't really compare how I was yesterday to anything. I tried explaining it to her, but she wasn't overly helpful. Not that I expected her to be.
I don't think I have a clear cycling pattern. My moods just fluctuate sooo rapidly. Sometimes multiple times over the course of a day. I'm extremely sensitive to external influences, positive and negative (i.e. if I perceive someone is angry at me, even with no good reason to believe that they are). Anyway, this is driving me crazy!!! I really have a fear that I'm going to continue doing this up-and-down, up-and-down thing with my emotions for the rest of my life. And it is precisely that fear that makes me wonder if it's even worth it.
Penny
> Hi Penny,
>
> I've been told, more than once, that med-induced mania isn't diagnostice of anything. More horse pucky. Bipolar II is precisely so devestating because it can take years--and years--for all those not-quite-disastrous symptoms to add up. I'm sorry, did you cycle before Celexa? And, this is not something to trifle with, in my experience. Have you seen your pdoc yet? Where is he/she at on all this? It can get soooo serious.
>
> Zo
Posted by Zo on March 9, 2002, at 19:08:19
In reply to Re: How depression starts » Zo, posted by Penny on March 8, 2002, at 8:26:35
>My moods are just all over the place. Don't know what to think right now, as I was 'flying high' the past couple of days and now I can feel myself heading downhill AGAIN. That would be the feeling I'm most familiar with.
Penny,
This is interesting, because I rapid-cycled for so many years, I thought that was normal life. No joke--only came out of it, after decades, last fall, with addition of Lamictal. So the memory is fresh in my mind!And I think rapid cycling, like so much else, is rather ignored in Bipolar IIs because we don't go off the flaming end.
I don't always keep up with the board--do you need to email me? Are you okay?
Zo
Posted by Penny on March 11, 2002, at 16:17:09
In reply to Re: How depression starts » Penny, posted by Zo on March 9, 2002, at 19:08:19
Yeah, I don't keep up with the boards as much as I'd like either. If you want, you can email me at [email protected]
I'm hangin' in. Was very encouraged after seeing my pdoc on Friday, but right now, at this moment, I don't know. Was good yesterday, not so good today. It's just up and down, over and over.
But, I do feel like he's hearing what I'm saying. He does, amazingly enough, listen to me. And I see him again this week, so I'm trying to be really tuned in to how I'm feeling and how my moods are fluctuating. At least I'm not having the negative side effects on my current meds like I was having on Paxil! And my last pdoc just kept raising the dose. ha...
Anyway, thanks for your concern. I'm just taking it day by day right now. My therapist will return from maternity leave in about 5 weeks, and that gives me something to look forward to. I've been going to a substitute, but that isn't helping much - I've only seen her twice, but I'm thinking it's a waste of my time and money b/c I really don't feel like opening up to her and I don't like her style as much as my 'real' therapist. I dunno. I keep thinking that maybe a break from dealing with bad stuff in therapy & trying to focus on the positive might keep me from sinking into another black hole...but we'll see.
Penny
> >My moods are just all over the place. Don't know what to think right now, as I was 'flying high' the past couple of days and now I can feel myself heading downhill AGAIN. That would be the feeling I'm most familiar with.
>
> Penny,
> This is interesting, because I rapid-cycled for so many years, I thought that was normal life. No joke--only came out of it, after decades, last fall, with addition of Lamictal. So the memory is fresh in my mind!
>
> And I think rapid cycling, like so much else, is rather ignored in Bipolar IIs because we don't go off the flaming end.
>
> I don't always keep up with the board--do you need to email me? Are you okay?
>
> Zo
This is the end of the thread.
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