![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by DAisym on April 1, 2008, at 19:37:13
I just found out my therapist has a web site - it is new and he did it jointly with his spouse, who is also a therapist. It has pictures and lots of nice verbiage about therapy and how it can help. It is directed primarily at couples. A friend who was looking for a new marriage counselor told me about it - she said she really liked it. Curiosity, as they say, killed the cat.
I found that it really rattled me to see it. There were lots of conflicting emotions and I pretty much hate how I feel - a mixture of jealousy and fear and lots and lots of sadness. I did talk with him about it this morning. My impulse was to run away, not show up for my session. I was embarrassed about having such a strong reaction. But I decided I'd grown enough in therapy to go and be honest about my reaction, no matter how stupid I felt.
He was open to discussing it as always. And he had lots of ideas about why it would be painful to see it. He was fine with all my strong feelings and said he didn't think I was out of line or that I was carrying some wild fantasy of us riding off into the sunset. And he said he doesn't just want to work with couples, that he thinks the work we are doing together is really important. It was hard to talk about all of this - embarrassing and painful and scary questions kept coming up.
As much as I love the net, I think it might have been easier to be a therapy client before this. Has anyone else seen their therapist's web site and if so, did it bother you?
Posted by Dinah on April 1, 2008, at 21:05:19
In reply to Your Therapist's Web Site, posted by DAisym on April 1, 2008, at 19:37:13
Ick!
My therapist is proudly computer illiterate. I think he would consider putting up a website to be giving in to the forces of darkness.
But I have a similar problem in that my therapist's areas of expertise are different from my issues, and he's currently studying to be a sex addictions expert. I can't help but thinking that's probably more interesting than I am, or more to his liking.
My therapist would say, and probably has, that there aren't many clients willing to do the hard work in therapy that I'm willing to do, or go as deep as I've been willing to go. And that while he might not be able to make a living dealing only with clients like me, he really enjoys our work together and finds it very fulfilling.
And I get the added bonus of knowing that he isn't mixing me up with his other clients because I'm unique.
Still, it can't be nice to have the fact that he has other clients, and is in fact actively looking for more, put so obviously in your line of vision. I don't blame you for being upset. I know I'd find something upsetting just in my therapist's self presentation, in that it might not fit perfectly with who I think he is. Not to mention seeing him juxtaposed next to his wife in an obvious way. Too much a collision of worlds.
I think therapists need to be really really careful in this internet age to be sensitive to all of that.
Posted by Daisym on April 1, 2008, at 23:52:48
In reply to Re: Your Therapist's Web Site » DAisym, posted by Dinah on April 1, 2008, at 21:05:19
Thanks Dinah. I sometimes feel like I'm just to sensitive for the whole therapy experience. It seems like everything bothers me.
But as I was thinking about all of this, I remember a few years ago when he bought a new couch for the office. I posted about it - I was almost insulted that he warned me that he was going to do it and prepped me that the office would look different come Monday. But he was right, it was hard to settle in. And I was glad he warned me. So why didn't he think this would bother me? Did he think I wouldn't see it? Or is the technology just so new that there aren't guidelines for this yet?
I feel another chapter in our book coming.
Posted by Annierose on April 2, 2008, at 7:00:17
In reply to Re: Your Therapist's Web Site » Dinah, posted by Daisym on April 1, 2008, at 23:52:48
I imagine he thought you wouldn't see it. You are not looking for a new therapist so he figured you wouldn't see it for lack of a search to do so.
Actually viewing my therapist web site, in and of itself today, a few years later, doesn't bother me as much. I had similar reactions to you at first - and for me it had more to do with that she was seeking more clients. However, it comforted me how she spoke about the therapy experience ... "ultimately its the relationship between the therapist and client that brings about long lasting changes ... " (something like that). It gives me a teeny tiny window into her ... how she approached setting up the site, what she choose to say about herself, etc. etc.
I'm just guessing here - but I imagine seeing the photos of your t with his wife, smiling, would be the hardest part to digest. I wouldn't want to see a photo of my t with her husband, smiling together, as much as I am curious about who he is. It's a push and pull .... wanting to know and not wanting to know.
Keep talking and sharing with him.
Did you ask him how long he has had the site up?
Posted by Fallsfall on April 2, 2008, at 8:28:51
In reply to Your Therapist's Web Site, posted by DAisym on April 1, 2008, at 19:37:13
But now you have another picture of him... Is there a picture of him without his wife?
Talking about your reaction is a very good thing. And you know that he likes working with you even if you aren't a couple - let your gut knowledge of that give you peace.
A website is not the same as an advertisement for new clients. A website is an appropriate part of a business. And, in this case, it promotes job security for him - it has given you more to talk about in therapy 8^)
Love,
Falls
Posted by raisinb on April 2, 2008, at 9:26:32
In reply to Re: Your Therapist's Web Site » DAisym, posted by Fallsfall on April 2, 2008, at 8:28:51
Daisy, that would rattle me, too. I'd hate the collision of worlds--your personal, intimate relationship with your therapist and the public persona (which includes other clients) he has on the web.
Photos of him and his wife can't be comfortable, either. I struggle with thinking about my therapist and her family. I know that we won't "ride off into the sunset," and in the past year, I have come to feel that my therapy is much, much too important to turn into something romantic. I feel desire for my therapist, but at the same time, I sense in deeper parts of myself how traumatic and destructive it could be if she actually broke the boundaries.
But I still HATE the fact that there are other people in her life more important than me, and that she has other clients.
From reading your posts, I can tell that you and your therapist can probably get through just about anything, though, if you keep talking about it :) You are doing the right thing. I admire your bravery in bringing it up.
Posted by sunnydays on April 2, 2008, at 10:26:29
In reply to Your Therapist's Web Site, posted by DAisym on April 1, 2008, at 19:37:13
I'm not sure how I would feel if my T had a website... luckily he's fairly computer-illiterate and works for the university, so I don't think I have to worry. My school has a website where they list all the therapists and their personal info/research/professional interests. My T is the only one that has nothing but his name and college he went to up... I keep hoping they'll put something more, but I almost think it's part of my T's philosophy that he likes working with all sorts of people. I do know his specialty, and it's nothing at all relevant to me (substance abuse) but it doesn't bother me because I think there's actually a lot of overlap between what he's trained in as a social worker and what my issues are. And it works well for me, so that's all that matters.
I can see how it would be really disconcerting, though... my T has other stuff on the net about him and I actually avoid reading it now because sometimes it's disconcerting to me to think that there's another part of his life that doesn't include me and where I'm not necessarily the most important part of his life (because of course I'm the most important part of his professional life!) ;)
Keep talking with him... I feel like there might be something really deep in your reaction that could lead to an insight for you.
sunnydays
Posted by DAisym on April 2, 2008, at 12:15:25
In reply to Re: Your Therapist's Web Site, posted by Annierose on April 2, 2008, at 7:00:17
I did not ask how long it has been up. Since I've been seeing him for a long time and I see him a lot, I think it is pretty recent, given the photos. He is wearing something I *think* he got for Christmas. (its all about the details, isn't it?)
I think a large part of what was bothersome was the joint photo and what was written about them personally. I told him that when I ask questions we always explore the "why do you want to know" part - and yet there it was, offered up to anyone else. I intellectually know the answer to this, of course.
I suspect that if it had been just him, I wouldn't have had the same reaction. I'd have had one - just different.
Posted by DAisym on April 2, 2008, at 12:18:05
In reply to Re: Your Therapist's Web Site » DAisym, posted by Fallsfall on April 2, 2008, at 8:28:51
It would have been helpful if this had happened when I had nothing else to talk about! When it rains it pours...
Yes there is a photo of him. And it is a pretty good one. But I like my tiny photo that he wrote a note on. It's mine. (stomp, stomp)
I did manage to joke with him that even though I'm not part of a couple, I do have a couple of parts. He laughed.
Thanks for the reply.
Posted by DAisym on April 2, 2008, at 12:27:04
In reply to Re: Your Therapist's Web Site » Fallsfall, posted by raisinb on April 2, 2008, at 9:26:32
*****I know that we won't "ride off into the sunset," and in the past year, I have come to feel that my therapy is much, much too important to turn into something romantic. I feel desire for my therapist, but at the same time, I sense in deeper parts of myself how traumatic and destructive it could be if she actually broke the boundaries****
I completely agree. I told him a while back that I would never chose a romantic relationship with him over the therapy one. And it isn't even like I think I'd ever have that choice - I'm absolutely sure that if he was going to risk it all, it wouldn't be with someone like me. (yes, it is that old, "I'm not attractive enough, or together enough, or sexy enough..." ) And we've talked about the devastation of reinforcing my deep belief that I turn good men into bad people with sex - so it would be a complete disaster. That is why I say I don't think I'm harboring any fantasies of riding off into the sunset - but is there one hidden even from myself? It is embarrassing to think it might be possible. I tend to think of myself as someone who is fairly grounded in reality and I don't live in a "it could happen" world.
I can't help but think that a lot of this is old - I'm afraid I'm going to be in trouble for loving him and for wanting his caring and concern. I can hear him asking me, "in trouble with whom?" and there are so many answers - with him, with his wife, with my mother, with God - I'm tempting the universe.
Ug - too much to think about.
Posted by DAisym on April 2, 2008, at 12:35:56
In reply to Re: Your Therapist's Web Site » DAisym, posted by sunnydays on April 2, 2008, at 10:26:29
***because sometimes it's disconcerting to me to think that there's another part of his life that doesn't include me and where I'm not necessarily the most important part of his life***
Your reply reminded me of one of the more painful parts of this conversation. I said to him that seeing the site reminds me that this is a really time limited endeavor. At some point, we will stop. And his life will go on and not include me, he won't think about me, I have no place or standing in his "real" life. And yet I can't imagine not always loving him and I know I'll never forget him. He said, "but you've always known this. You know that there is an end to therapy - but we aren't there yet. We don't need to worry about it right now."
The thing is - I might have always known this. But it didn't matter when I started, I had no idea that I wouldn't want the ending. The deeper and more attached I get, the more the ending feels like death - inevitable at some point, not preventable, and devasting. So the reminders that he has a family, who will always be part of his life, brings out a jealousy I didn't know I was capable of feeling.
Posted by Dinah on April 2, 2008, at 14:14:37
In reply to Re: Your Therapist's Web Site » sunnydays, posted by DAisym on April 2, 2008, at 12:35:56
It does not have to end!
It does not!
(stamps foot)
Sorry, just needed to add that. :)
My therapist knows I'll *never* get better if getting better means leaving therapy.
Posted by sunnydays on April 2, 2008, at 15:35:00
In reply to Re: Your Therapist's Web Site » sunnydays, posted by DAisym on April 2, 2008, at 12:35:56
I totally understand that feeling. Totally. I freak out if my T changes his chair... and he's going to have to move to a new office soon and I've been freaking out about that for months already. But I want to remind you of something I am sure is true for your T. My T said to me once when I was worried I might have to leave after I graduated (I luckily don't now) that, "Even if we were to end, I would never forget you. It would be impossible. You are a part of me now, a part of my spirit. I believe that when we meet people in life who are really important to us, they touch us in a special way and become part of us. I will always carry you in me. Working with you has made me a better therapist, and I thank you for that." I believe that your T has worked with you long enough Daisy that you have touched him, too. You are a part of him and he won't forget you. It helps me to think sometimes that memories are formed in our brains biochemically and that when we meet people and really get to know them, it is physiologically pretty much impossible to forget them. I don't know if that helps you.
I know how painful it is though. The fact that my T will ALWAYS put his family over his job pains me enormously. It's not that I think I'm entitled to be more important, it's just that I've never been that important to anyone and seeing that it's possible makes me want it even more.
sunnydays
Posted by Poet on April 2, 2008, at 19:16:10
In reply to Your Therapist's Web Site, posted by DAisym on April 1, 2008, at 19:37:13
Hi Daisy,
My and another T share a website/therapy practice and so they have a joint website. What I find interesting is my T's photo is there, but not the other T. It doesn't bother me that T has a website other than it has comments from clients and that makes me kind of jealous: they made progress and I didn't.
Poet
Posted by seldomseen on April 3, 2008, at 7:11:52
In reply to Re: Your Therapist's Web Site » sunnydays, posted by DAisym on April 2, 2008, at 12:35:56
Daisy,
You have got to be one of the bravest people I have ever come across. I know we talk about how wonderful your T is all the time (If mine weren't so great, I would want yours too (and sunnydays' and dinah's!)), but you are the one that is doing all of the work.Regarding this feeling
" But it didn't matter when I started, I had no idea that I wouldn't want the ending. The deeper and more attached I get, the more the ending feels like death - inevitable at some point, not preventable, and devasting."Have you considered that this feeling just means that you value the relationship with your T a lot and you don't want to lose it?
Sometimes I think we've learned too well NOT to value relationships because they "turn" on us or just end.
Our T's are not going to turn on us, but this relationship has the potential to end.
My T and I have a contract that this relationship will not end until both of us mutually agree on it. He'll be there as long as I want him there.
Right now, for me, it's never going to end. I fully intend to go to a nursing home to see him if I need to. The ending is under my control.
Maybe you and your T can talk about this and do something similar.
It really helped me to feel safe about valuing our relationship.
Seldom
Posted by crushedout on April 3, 2008, at 19:44:14
In reply to Your Therapist's Web Site, posted by DAisym on April 1, 2008, at 19:37:13
I dunno if you remember this Daisy, but I discovered that my ex-T (not the most recent one but the one before) had a BLOG. I think I convinced her to shut it down, though.I guess it was different in that she wasn't my therapist anymore. Also, it was a very personal blog, so it seems clearly inappropriate, whereas your T's thing is not so. But I agree that this internet age/therapy thing is rough.
See, e.g., the shenanigans with my most recent ex-T, where our relationship partly dissolved because I overgoogled her. ;)
Posted by sassyfrancesca on April 4, 2008, at 12:14:26
In reply to Re: Your Therapist's Web Site » DAisym, posted by seldomseen on April 3, 2008, at 7:11:52
My therapist has a wonderful website; I even e-mailed a message to him about it...that it isn't the usual sturm and drang of titles, etc., etc....it is personal; he speaks of being hurt by well-meaning people, and wants to be a "midwife" on life's journey, etc....he also has quotes by people he likes, and speaks of losing a best friend as a child and how his family enabled him to travel to a foreign country...where he learned a different culture, and about the hurts from "well-meaning' people....etc., etc......he mentions nothing about wife, etc......it is just about him and has his picture.
Like someone else mentioned (LOL()I plan to be with him, even when I am in a nursing home (or HE is, LOL, LOL)
Will always love him.
Posted by Daisym on April 6, 2008, at 1:08:49
In reply to Re: Your Therapist's Web Site » DAisym, posted by sunnydays on April 2, 2008, at 15:35:00
I decided today that one of the things that bothers me is that he seems so happy doing other things. Of course one likes being with their family, this is how things are supposed to be. I'm more and more sure that a lot of the ache is seeing what I don't have - that I've never had. And it is very, very sad that I might not ever have it.
Posted by Daisym on April 6, 2008, at 1:11:50
In reply to Re: Your Therapist's Web Site » DAisym, posted by Poet on April 2, 2008, at 19:16:10
Wow Poet - a mystery Therapist. Have you ever met the partner?
I think testimonials would bother me a bit too. And yet, don't we want to know that other people have been successful with our therapist's help? The whole thing is hard for me to wrap my brain around - my intellect just doesn't match the giant pit in my stomach.
Posted by Daisym on April 6, 2008, at 1:30:55
In reply to Re: Your Therapist's Web Site » DAisym, posted by seldomseen on April 3, 2008, at 7:11:52
You have got to be one of the bravest people I have ever come across. I know we talk about how wonderful your T is all the time (If mine weren't so great, I would want yours too (and sunnydays' and dinah's!)), but you are the one that is doing all of the work.
***That is a very nice thing for you to say. I don't think of any of this as brave, it feels necessary. In fact I often wonder if I'm too honest.
Regarding this feeling
" But it didn't matter when I started, I had no idea that I wouldn't want the ending. The deeper and more attached I get, the more the ending feels like death - inevitable at some point, not preventable, and devasting."Have you considered that this feeling just means that you value the relationship with your T a lot and you don't want to lose it?
**********I consider this often. I think this is why I want to keep him as my therapist, more than anything else. But jealousy always makes me feel small and petty and very unsettled.
Sometimes I think we've learned too well NOT to value relationships because they "turn" on us or just end.
**********I never realized until doing a lot of work in therapy that I didn't really have relationships - except with my kids and my siblings. These are a mixture of good and bad. But everyone else was kept at away - they valued me and what I could provide, but I didn't share myself. That doesn't mean I didn't like them or respect them...I just didn't need them. So if things ended, I moved on.
Our T's are not going to turn on us, but this relationship has the potential to end.
********I pretty much trust that my therapist isn't going to turn on me, but there are plenty of stories of this happening. As we go deeper, and I allow him to see more and more the shadow side of me, I worry about this.
My T and I have a contract that this relationship will not end until both of us mutually agree on it. He'll be there as long as I want him there.
*************Yes - but the universe might have something to say about this. It can be unbelievably cruel, in my experience. My therapist says this too - that it is up to me, that we'll talk about it, that he is going to work a long time.
Right now, for me, it's never going to end. I fully intend to go to a nursing home to see him if I need to. The ending is under my control.
***********I think we need to lobby for the therapist's retirement village - like old actors. That way they will be all together and we can all go visit and swap around some. And we will know where to find them.
Maybe you and your T can talk about this and do something similar.
It really helped me to feel safe about valuing our relationship
**************It isn't that I don't feel safe in valuing the relationship. It is that I value it too much and the need to feel secure and contained just isn't dying down.
Posted by Daisym on April 6, 2008, at 1:33:55
In reply to Re: Your Therapist's Web Site » DAisym, posted by crushedout on April 3, 2008, at 19:44:14
It is a double-edge sword, isn't it? I'm curious about him and his life but finding out stuff is loaded and often painful. And the more I know, the more left out I feel.
So yes, I think we all need to be careful - them and us.
Posted by Daisym on April 6, 2008, at 1:37:17
In reply to Re: Your Therapist's Web Site, posted by sassyfrancesca on April 4, 2008, at 12:14:26
I'll totally admit that I was too self-centered to tell him that the site looked nice and it was easy to navigate. I was too busy telling him it upset me. :(
I think we all have decided to keep our therapists well past retirement age. Now we just have to figure out how.
Posted by twinleaf on April 6, 2008, at 6:21:33
In reply to Re: Your Therapist's Web Site » sunnydays, posted by Daisym on April 6, 2008, at 1:08:49
A thought, Daisy. My analyst doesn't (yet) have a website, but I think it would bother me, too. There's suddenly more of him out there, and he seems to be directing his attention at unknown others. Not you, the way he's supposed to!
The analyst I had prior to this one (the one who threw me out) said a number of times, "I expect you will come three or four times a week for several years, and will then come whenever you feel you need to." I know he meant it when he said it, and I did believe him. Later, he got overwhelmed with what I now know were very serious personal problems, and I got hurt badly in the process. I guess you could call this the universe having a say in what happens despite the most genuine human promises..
The analyst I have now has never said this. What he does do is to keep me in mind EVERY SECOND that I am with him. He is so dedicated to doing this that if he ever feels that he can't, because of slight illness or a distressing event in his own life, he will tell me, and ask if I feel that he's not completely with me. He has a rich, full life- he runs all sorts of analytic things, has published a lot, has a wife who is also a psychoanalyst, children and grandchildren, as well as many interests which show up in the photographs, books and objects in his office. But, as long as he is truly with ME when I'm there, it doesn't bother me too much at all, even though I am just as jealous and envious as anyone, usually! Would this be a good area of exploration for you, or is that already happening?
Very subtle analyst humor:
me" Oh! You've got a chess set! Do you play with patients?"
A: "only if someone walks in who looks as if he would like to play......."
******************************
me: "we work so hard, and then when we finally get it sort if right. we die!:
A: "Wouldn't it be nice if we didn't have to!"
Posted by Daisym on April 7, 2008, at 0:20:27
In reply to the parts of their lives which don't include you.., posted by twinleaf on April 6, 2008, at 6:21:33
I'm not sure how much more there is to explore. He is pretty accepting of all these feelings - I hate having them but they are here none-the-less - and I'm sure they are the result of what I don't have, and didn't have. We talked about jealousy and he said he didn't know of many relationships that didn't have this component in it occasionally. I guess as long as it doesn't over-take you, it isn't pathological.
When we talk about these things, my therapist reminds me that he is very present for me when we are together and that is really what counts. Like your therapist, he holds me in his mind and I can feel his strength surrounding me. I wish I could hold him in mine better.
Thanks for sharing the humor. I love the back and forth, it adds a level of intimacy that feels really good.
And I'd like to add, you seem to really be healing from the big rupture last year. I hear understanding in your "voice" -- I know it still hurts and trusting this new therapist was a lot of work. But you are really doing well and I'm so impressed.
Posted by twinleaf on April 7, 2008, at 18:34:08
In reply to Re: the parts of their lives which don't include you.., posted by Daisym on April 7, 2008, at 0:20:27
Thank you, Daisy. That's very thoughtful of you to mention it. Actually, things like that are so hard to get completely over. Last week I felt that I was really making progress in grieving and saying goodbye to the first analyst, but this week I feel that I'm only starting out at the beginning- for the hundredth or thousandth time!
It's a bit of comfort to know for sure that it didn't have too much to do with me- it was personal problems (marriage breakup) and a complex counter-transference. Apparently he began to consider me as too seductive! In reality, I am quite shy - and would love to become a bit more flirtatious through my analysis!
I am hoping to have a dream sometime interesting enough to post for your consideration.
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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