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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by alexandra_k on October 7, 2005, at 18:34:36
In reply to Re: going to quit therapy » alexandra_k, posted by Deneb on October 6, 2005, at 16:35:37
Hey :-)
> I think maybe you could give yourself some of the advice you give me? :-)
Ah. Its hard for me to see what to say in my case sometimes...
So much easier to say what I think about other peoples...
Thats why other people (who have a little distance) can help so very much.>I think I know what you mean when you say that you try to get help, but then people seem like they don't want to help you so then you feel like you have to prove that you need help. This whole "proving" oneself can get dangerous sometimes, but it is the only way people will pay attention to us.
Yeah. It really does seem that way sometimes. And sometimes... I really think it is that way. I think it can be different when you are working with a clinician, though. Because they get to know you and you can work out a plan of action for crisis situations beforehand.
For me...
At this point I think I have a 'do not admit' comment on my file. When I phone CAT they typically put you off till they have seen your file... And they look for the CAT reccomendation or something like that... And, well, I'm not so sure that any of the stuff there is very up to date. And I think there is a 'no admit' statement there. And so when I ring they are so very intent on getting me the hell off the phone. It was different when I was working with a p-doc. Because I'd call him and I'd feel that I could say 'I really think I'm losing it and I need a couple of days / a week to get on some meds and find the path again' and that was listened to. But without a p-doc onside... Not so.
> I have the same problem. It's horrible to think that others do not care. Sometimes it feels like I have to do something really horrible just to prove that I'm suffering.
Yeah. Though thats not the way...
Something is going wrong :-(
I really think that is why it is so very important to have a clinician onside.
Even when one has one onside sometimes one has to put up with all sorts of sh*t from the nurses...
But it is easier to bite ones lip when someone believes in you...((((Deneb)))))
Thanks so much.
Just knowing that other people feel like this sometimes helps
And knowing that the feeling passes
(Thats so very hard to remember)
But knowing that the feeling passes
And that things won't always seem that way
Really is very important
But sometimes its hard to remember that for yourself
And so other people are invaluable.And you help me too :-)
Posted by alexandra_k on October 7, 2005, at 18:47:18
In reply to (((((Alex))))) » alexandra_k, posted by Tamar on October 6, 2005, at 17:14:20
Hey.
Yeah, the 'excuses' are inconsistent.
Because they are rationalisations so that people don't have to take me on.
But they are rationalisations from people who weren't suited to working with me.
Rationalisations from people who didn't want to see me.
The trouble with their rationalisations is that they turned them into generalisations too...
'I can't help her therefore nobody can help her'
'She didn't get better when I was giving her therapy therefore she won't get better if anyone else gives her therapy either'
And so on and so forth.
And I have hit them up about that...
About how they are making generalisations that are unfair to me.
Generalisations that do not take into account that I have managed to make significant progress with some clincians.
Went from being an inpatient more than an outpatient over a period of a couple of years...
Into supported accomodation with people who had chronic schizophrenia etc...
To going back to university and (nearly) completed a masters degree, and doing tutoring, and getting scholarships, and going to conferences etc.
And so if that doesn't count as OBJECTIVE progress, then what the f*ck does?????But then they just hang their heads and say that the sad truth is that there isn't anyone within the service who is suitable / willing to work with me.
And I reckon...
That they just need to give me a chance :-(
And there surely must be someone...> I know your therapist has hurt you. It’s something that happens in every therapeutic relationship because therapists are flawed and sometimes they’re just not there. And it hurts so much. I think it’s because we attribute cosmic significance to it. It takes on a symbolic resonance or something like that.
Yeah. I know I'm fairly sensitive to rejection at the best of times... But I have been thinking for a long while now... That me and my current t are not particularly well suited to one another. And so... I'm wondering whether what is going to happen... Is that the problems and frustrations are only likely to increase...
And I am worrying about her giving me hugs...
Because I do agree that being able to hold with your voice and what you say is better...
But we don't seem to be able to manage the latter...
And I think that is why she is resorting to the former...
But that that doesn't speak very well of good boundaries...
And good boundaries really are so very important to me...
And I'm not sure...
I don't know...
> And perhaps the same thing is true of the struggle for recognition by the people who make the decisions. They take on a symbolic significance. Their rejection reflects earlier rejections and contributes to the pain. I’m sure I’m not saying anything you haven’t already thought of.Yeah. I've thought about it a lot...
But knowing that doesn't seem to help me CHANGE my emotional responses...
And doesn't seem to help me CHANGE my behaviours either...
So I'm not sure whether its because I'm missing something, missing something important with respect to understanding...
Or whether it is that knowing it rationally isn't going to help
Untill I get to work through this with someone
Because some things it doesn't help so much to rationally know that thats whats going on...
Some things you need to experience...
Till the intensity lessens off.
And I dont' think I have a clinician who is going to be able to help me with that...> I would suggest that Plan A is to give your therapist a piece of your mind about not being there. If she’s a good therapist she can take it.
But...
I've done this to her before...
I really don't think...
I can say anything.
:-(
Posted by alexandra_k on October 7, 2005, at 18:49:44
In reply to Re: Alex - check the date, posted by gardenergirl on October 6, 2005, at 17:38:08
> Yep, I think Alex and I are on the same schedule. I just checked my own calendar. Who knew women could affect each other across miles and ocean?
hmm. seems you were right about being affected just after too...> At least I hope that's all it is, for both of us.
yeah. i guess it would make sense...
> Alex, email me if you want to chat. Or even email me and I'll give you my cell number. It would be nice to hear a friendly voice, even if it's another wobbly one.thanks gg :-)
i'm feeling a lot better now...
but i would like to call you someday...
it is a riot hearing all the funny accents in the world if nothing else ;-)
Posted by alexandra_k on October 7, 2005, at 18:51:16
In reply to Re: going to quit therapy » alexandra_k, posted by Angela2 on October 6, 2005, at 23:49:41
hey.
yeah...
it is a hard one.
i do feel that i need it...
it is just that i can't get it...
and so i guess that puts pressure on whether it is a real 'need' or just a 'desire'.
> Alex, I have been through this too. Even yesterday I was thinking, maybe I should quit therapy for a while. But I know for myself that I can't do that. I need the support and I need someone to help me see things clearly. Not everyone needs that though.
Posted by alexandra_k on October 7, 2005, at 19:00:16
In reply to Re: going to quit therapy » Angela2, posted by alexandra_k on October 7, 2005, at 18:51:16
well... it looks like i am just going to have to... because it seems as though... it seems as though if i move to australia i am going to be faced with having no health coverage whatsoever.
you see... it used to be that nz citizens who have resided in australia and worked for 6 months were entitled to residency benefits with respect to health care. thats access to something (fairly comperable i guess) to community mental health over here (and of course reimbursement on general medical, optometrist, dental etc).
but then there was some haggling over whether people on PhD scholarships counted as 'having a job in australia' and so they have just changed it...
and i was kind of figuring that the situation with international students would be different...
i mean... in the us the department picks up the cost of student health insurance coverage (which is actually pretty good) for international students.
but in australia the situation is different. it is a requirement of entry into the country (which you need to do to pick up your scholarship) that you obtain health insurance coverage before you enter the country. at your own cost.
and so there it is.
if i go...
i won't even have basic medical...
i'll have to get my friends to go to the doc for me and ship me over meds...who am i kidding...
i'll be screwed basically.
there is an agreement where australia will treat nzers in the case of emergency...
but that they will deport if that is more feasible...
so i'll likely get deported for treatment here...
but if i get deported then i won't get treatment here...
because they seem to be just putting me off...
putting me off...
until i leave.
Posted by alexandra_k on October 7, 2005, at 19:12:05
In reply to Re: accepting it, posted by alexandra_k on October 7, 2005, at 19:00:16
and inpatient treatment...
is sort of sort of an option...and so what i'm thinking...
what i'm thinking they have decided on as a plan of attack...is that at the moment i am just functioning too highly to justify their spending time on treating me.
and so i'm faced with a bit of a choice...
i can make do without (go to australia and just motor on as best i can)
i cannot make do without (in which case i deteriorate and eventually get in to the treatment program over here. thats between 6 months and 2 years of an inpatient program)
and is this what they really mean to do to me?
and is this really the course my life is going to take?
Posted by rainbowbrite on October 7, 2005, at 19:49:36
In reply to Re: going to quit therapy » rainbowbrite, posted by alexandra_k on October 7, 2005, at 18:24:56
> Hey Rain...
>
> I was checking my emails... And I found an email from you. I don't check it very often because nobody seems to email to that address anymore... But anyway... Now I feel... Hmm... Whats the word... I feel like a right drongo for going on about other people ignoring me... Because if I actually check my emails I see that there are emails that other people have sent me only I didn't know they were there, and so it turns out that those other people probably think that I am ignoring them...
>
> Sigh.
>No worries, I didn't feel ignored. I actually thought that my email assisted in your decision lol. Let me have my narcisistic moment heehee ;-). It *was* my email...right? When you posted your update I figured you had read it and that was your response, it just made sense to me lol.
> I do hope I have properly snapped out of this
> (I think I have, I think I have)
> :-)
>I hope so to. Im glad you are feeling better.
> > Dont make me swim to NZ!!
>
> LOL!
> Are you sure???
> I could put the jug on...
> Or you could bring one of those leave-it-there-all-day coffee contraptions with you ;-)
>
>Ok since you're making it! I will swim there, but wait maybe you could meet me in, uh Hawaii or even the Cook Islands :-)
Leave it there all day contraptions!! lmao it can only have been sitting for an hour lol then its gone bad :-)
Posted by damos on October 7, 2005, at 20:15:13
In reply to Re: going to quit therapy » Damos, posted by alexandra_k on October 7, 2005, at 18:11:21
> thanks Damos.
> and here i am...
> and i need to reply to an email from you
> (i'm not ignoring you - i promise)
>
> and i'm sorry i go off like that sometimes :-(
> because...
> i do get very self-absorbed.
> i'm sorry.Don't worry about replying to the email or anything else. You're here with us and okay (ish, kind-of, relatively speaking) and that's all that matters.
You know I don't feel ignored (ignorant yes, ignored no). And you don't need to be sorry for anything. We all care about you that's all.
Just so very glad to see you okay. And as for Oz, well you just get here and we'll work the rest out okay.
Posted by alexandra_k on October 7, 2005, at 20:15:26
In reply to Re: going to quit therapy » alexandra_k, posted by rainbowbrite on October 7, 2005, at 19:49:36
> No worries, I didn't feel ignored.
:-)
Good.
Babblemails get sent to a different address (a work one I'm somewhat ashamed to admit) so I get them almost immediately... Not many people have my other email address and so because I don't get too many sent to there I'm a little more lax about collecting them and sometimes only check every couple of days.> I actually thought that my email assisted in your decision lol.
:-)
It helped validate my decision in hindsight.>Let me have my narcisistic moment heehee ;-). It *was* my email...right? When you posted your update I figured you had read it and that was your response, it just made sense to me lol.
Well... It did help validate my decision. Because you are right... When you want to reestablish a connection with someone then you really need to be able to send that invitation out and then remove yourself from it enough so that it won't destroy you if you never even get a response. And it is hard... Because you always will wonder a bit 'did they get that?' 'did they mean to ignore me?' 'don't they even care about me a little?' 'did they ever care about me?' and one can go nuts with all that...
and so...
better not
better not
and i guess i just figured...
that even if she was keen to re-establish contact
that might not work out.
especially given my 'episodes'
and my habit of sending / posting
big whines...
and thats not appropriate
because she isn't my t anymore
and she isn't going to be my t again
and so...
i think i just need to let it go
and appreciate what she did give me
and that she did help me
and that she did care
but that sometimes circumstances...
mean that people move on.
> Ok since you're making it!okay, but you will have to show me how :-)
>I will swim there, but wait maybe you could meet me in, uh Hawaii or even the Cook Islands :-)
uh yeah... i suppose we could try... or maybe Australia??? have you ever been to Melbourne??
> Leave it there all day contraptions!! lmao it can only have been sitting for an hour lol then its gone bad :-)Oh. sorry - my mistake ;-)
Posted by alexandra_k on October 7, 2005, at 20:22:20
In reply to Hip hip hooray our Alex is Okay » alexandra_k, posted by damos on October 7, 2005, at 20:15:13
:-)
> Don't worry about replying to the email or anything else.
Too late :-P
>You're here with us and okay (ish, kind-of, relatively speaking) and that's all that matters.
:-)
Yeah, I'm feeling a lot better.
> Just so very glad to see you okay. And as for Oz, well you just get here and we'll work the rest out okay.Hmm.
We will have to see...
Don't know whether I'll even get in...
(Though I think I'm probably as likely to get into both as I was likely to get into neither places I applied to in the US ;-)but yeah...
we will just have to wait and see...
no point worrying about it when it might not even happen.
like i worried myself sick about the us
and that didn't even turn out to be an option
and i suppose i do have to say in hindsight...
that that was a good thing.no offence peoples (and i really mean that)
but i do think the culture shock would have had me spinning out rather a lot
and it is a looooooooooooooooooong way away
even though i don't really feel like there is anything here for me
i guess i do have some friends...but australia feels like home.
the people are just like kiwis
(though tend to have a funny accent)
but similar
laid back and friendly and not too loud
and not in your face
and i think most things we have over here...
you lot have over there...
but you have loads more besides.and the CIA website says something like
'NZers have a lot of towns that they like to call cities' and they don't consider we have any cities
(LOL!!!)
but i think australia gets to have 2 cities
(LOL!!! Sydney and... Brisbane(?????) I guess)But yeah...
I like it over there :-)
Posted by Damos on October 8, 2005, at 1:57:31
In reply to Thanks Damos » Damos, posted by gardenergirl on October 7, 2005, at 6:58:10
Really hope you're feeling a little better today too.
Take good care of you
Posted by rainbowbrite on October 8, 2005, at 9:37:40
In reply to Re: going to quit therapy » rainbowbrite, posted by alexandra_k on October 7, 2005, at 20:15:26
> :-)
> It helped validate my decision in hindsight.good :-)
> Well... It did help validate my decision. Because you are right... When you want to reestablish a connection with someone then you really need to be able to send that invitation out and then remove yourself from it enough so that it won't destroy you if you never even get a response. And it is hard... Because you always will wonder a bit 'did they get that?' 'did they mean to ignore me?' 'don't they even care about me a little?' 'did they ever care about me?' and one can go nuts with all that...
>absolutely!
> i think i just need to let it go
> and appreciate what she did give me
> and that she did help me
> and that she did care
> but that sometimes circumstances...
> mean that people move on.
>thats a good way of looking at it.
>
> okay, but you will have to show me how :-)
>lol ok but it will have to sit for awhile ;-)
> uh yeah... i suppose we could try... or maybe Australia??? have you ever been to Melbourne??
>Ive never been to Melbourne, always wanted to :-( But Melbourne is further away from me....Hawaii is in the middle lol Hey Ill swim all the way. I kind of like the idea of getting in a good workout lol
Posted by alexandra_k on October 8, 2005, at 17:36:04
In reply to Re: going to quit therapy » alexandra_k, posted by rainbowbrite on October 8, 2005, at 9:37:40
> > okay, but you will have to show me how :-)
> lol ok but it will have to sit for awhile ;-)well thats okay. after such a long swim i'm sure we could think of other things to drink first...
> Ive never been to Melbourne, always wanted to :-( But Melbourne is further away from me....Hawaii is in the middle lol Hey Ill swim all the way. I kind of like the idea of getting in a good workout lolhmm. well i haven't been to hawaii so that could be fun too. i'm just not much of a fan of beaches (i can wear jeans and not suffer too much - right???)
lol. i wonder how long it would actually take to swim.
one might be better off stowing away on a ship...
Posted by rainbowbrite on October 9, 2005, at 8:47:01
In reply to Re: going to quit therapy » rainbowbrite, posted by alexandra_k on October 8, 2005, at 17:36:04
> well thats okay. after such a long swim i'm sure we could think of other things to drink first...
definatly
>
> hmm. well i haven't been to hawaii so that could be fun too. i'm just not much of a fan of beaches (i can wear jeans and not suffer too much - right???)I guess it would depend on the time of year. But I think you'd be fine.
> lol. i wonder how long it would actually take to swim.
>
> one might be better off stowing away on a ship...
>
>well, its about 6499 miles from LA to NZ. So say I start in LA....It would probably take at a nice leisurely pace, so I dont get too tired (@ 1hr per mile) at 5 miles per day..... about 54 days, plus all the nights it would probably take roughly 107 days! Hey thats nothing! lol stowing away might be a better option though, or even flying lol
;-)
Posted by Susan47 on October 9, 2005, at 17:37:51
In reply to going to quit therapy, posted by alexandra_k on October 5, 2005, at 23:38:32
Over the last year or so I've heard you say that so much, that you should quit therapy because you don't think it's helping. And then when you're forced to quit, you seem to be upset about it. I've lost track of who was good and who wasn't. I've lost track of who you've seen. I've lost track of how you were doing. I'm sorry. :(
Posted by alexandra_k on October 9, 2005, at 21:09:38
In reply to Re: going to quit therapy » alexandra_k, posted by Susan47 on October 9, 2005, at 17:37:51
> Over the last year or so I've heard you say that so much, that you should quit therapy because you don't think it's helping.
:-(
Yeah. But then I never do quit really
:-(> And then when you're forced to quit, you seem to be upset about it.
Yeah
:-(> I've lost track of who was good and who wasn't. I've lost track of who you've seen. I've lost track of how you were doing. I'm sorry. :(
I've lost track of you too Susan.
I'm sorry too.Good to talk to you again (((Susan)))
(Now go answer my post over on relationships)
;-)
Posted by Susan47 on October 9, 2005, at 21:27:49
In reply to Re: going to quit therapy » Susan47, posted by alexandra_k on October 9, 2005, at 21:09:38
Oh, okay. :)
Posted by gardenergirl on October 9, 2005, at 23:12:59
In reply to Pleasure GG » gardenergirl, posted by Damos on October 8, 2005, at 1:57:31
Posted by JenStar on October 11, 2005, at 23:59:13
In reply to going to quit therapy, posted by alexandra_k on October 5, 2005, at 23:38:32
hi Alex,
I just got back from trip where I didn't have email/internet access...I'm trying to catch up on everything, but I wanted to say "hi" and that I hope you're doing ok!take care,
JenStar
Posted by alexandra_k on October 12, 2005, at 3:37:28
In reply to I hope you're doing ok! » alexandra_k, posted by JenStar on October 11, 2005, at 23:59:13
:-)
ooh. a trip? where did you go? what did you see? was it fun?
it can be hard to catch up sometimes...
i hate feeling like i'm missing out on something...but it is nice to hear from you and i look foward to seeing your posts :-)
Posted by alexandra_k on October 13, 2005, at 5:31:19
In reply to Re: went a little crazy but i think i'm okay now » JenStar, posted by alexandra_k on October 12, 2005, at 3:37:28
t wants me to take a night class to learn self-hypnosis.
i really don't think... that sounds like a good idea to me.
and...
David Groves style 'movement work' where 'He advocates physically moving around in order to see things from a different perspective'.
hmm.
anybody ever heard of that?
i can't find anything on google.
i don't like it when i can't find anything on google.
even NLP got links from google...
Posted by rainbowbrite on October 13, 2005, at 7:06:27
In reply to okay so now i'm even more serious about quitting, posted by alexandra_k on October 13, 2005, at 5:31:19
I agree, Id be wary of hypnosis, it can be dangerous and people who are more prone to dissociations are more easy to hypnotize. It kind of gives me the willies. I searched David Groves but I cant find anything either.
Posted by cricket on October 13, 2005, at 7:16:54
In reply to okay so now i'm even more serious about quitting, posted by alexandra_k on October 13, 2005, at 5:31:19
Hi Alex,
I agree with Rainbowbrite. Self-hypnosis does not sound like a good idea.
Never heard of David Groves either and it sounds weird.
Posted by Tamar on October 13, 2005, at 7:52:43
In reply to okay so now i'm even more serious about quitting, posted by alexandra_k on October 13, 2005, at 5:31:19
> t wants me to take a night class to learn self-hypnosis.
Argh!
> i really don't think... that sounds like a good idea to me.
Well, I wouldn’t go for it, but some people swear by it…
> and...
>
> David Groves style 'movement work' where 'He advocates physically moving around in order to see things from a different perspective'.
>
> hmm.
>
> anybody ever heard of that?
> i can't find anything on google.
> i don't like it when i can't find anything on google.
> even NLP got links from google...I’ve heard of something similar for conflict resolution. I did it in a workshop once at a conference. It was interesting… Not precisely the same thing your T is talking about perhaps.
I had a little fish about on google. Try googling “david grove” and “clean space”. That might be the thing your T was talking about.
Cheers,
Tamar
Posted by Emily Elizabeth on October 13, 2005, at 9:06:11
In reply to okay so now i'm even more serious about quitting, posted by alexandra_k on October 13, 2005, at 5:31:19
Hmmm. Maybe it is more of a relaxation thing rather than "self-hypnosis." Maybe that's just a catchy name? Some people find EMDR helpful although many people think it is bunk.
Hard to say whether self-hypnosis could be helpful or not. I'll admit that I would have had the same reaction you do. Just thought I'd throw some ideas out there for the sake of argument. ;)
Best,
EE
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