Posted by BobS. on August 17, 2003, at 20:23:15
In reply to Re: For Katia and Larry » BobS., posted by Larry Hoover on August 15, 2003, at 7:03:11
> Sorry, Bob, for the delay in replying. Kids are a demanding responsibility.
>
But fun, I go empty nest in two weeks. Yup, didn't start a family until I was 40. How old are your kids?? Enjoy them, no matter how demanding.> Given your intuitive "diagnosis" that you're leaning towards a bipolar spectrum pattern, wouldn't mood stabilization be a desired outcome? What about lithium?
Afraid, even at a sub-clinical level. My eight year struggle with SSRIs precludes any experimentation with "big gun" drugs.
> > Larry,
> > I have had a number of diagnoses over the years ranging from panic disorder to "soft" BP II. Current pdoc is a psycho pharmacologist only. He is very good but very unconcerned about prescribing high doses of this or that. Fortunately, he is not afraid of the benzophobes and that's why I take Xanax. Half life notwithstanding, it works.
>
> "afraid of the benzophobes".... That's an interesting phrase.The pdoc believes in the value of benzos and believes that the anti-benzo crowd are a form of religious zealots...
> Rhetorical question:
> Once you recognize that you tolerate benzos, and have a doc who'll prescribe them, it seems reasonable to try different ones, doesn't it? You still experience "anxiety breakthrough" episodes.He thinks Xanax is better than Klonopin even with the half life issue. Next visit we go to Xanax XR.
> > My symptoms are primarily anxiety; symptoms go up and down in severity. The anxiety, or anxiety like symptoms, was worse when I was required to take a SSRI by my earlier doctors, which is the reason I don't like SSRIs. I can go for months feeling quite normal, then the anxiety picks up, and I get down and unhappy. I can spend weeks in this condition and then return to "normal." I have read about anxious depression, hypomania and irritability, BP II atypical depression (I have rejection sensitivity)but not "leaden paralysis" whatever the hell that is.
>
> Extreme lethargy, would be my definition.Then why not say that. There's something wrong with the DSM IV...
> > I would like to find out if I am bipolar, primarily for the sake of my children.
>
> How old are your children? My intuition makes me wonder if there are loved ones around you who do not accept your mental health issues. Or, are your simply trying to learn enought that you can help your children do all they can to avoid some of the struggles you've faced?It's the latter. 20 and 18. The younger has social phobia (mild, but somewhat troublesome). I had him in CBT 3 years ago and now he seems to be on all fours. Has a girl friend is looking forward to college. He takes .25 Xanax prn. The older one is a little spacey, which I attribute to mild anxiety, but he's doing ok. If bi-polar is an issue, I want to cut it off at the pass so to speak.
> > However, I am not about to take lithium or depakote to find out.
>
> McPac has been posting about how useful a sub-clinical dose of lithium is, and others have responded in support of that dosing strategy. Just a thought.
>
> > So until the genetic testing is available, I want to try supplementation to see if it levels me out.
>
> IMHO, it will be decades before we will see any sort of "individual genes --> specific treatment" sort of mental health care.
>
> > This would help me and confirm my suspicion.
>
> I'll come back to the supplements, below.
>
> > Also, I would be prepared to take action on the behalf of my children, now when they are young.
>
> OK, you answered my question.Young in a relative sense, 18 and 20 as I mentioned above. They know about anxiety, since they each have seen the same pdoc as me.
> About genetic pedispositions, in general.... I like the diathesis/stressor model of mental illness. From twin studies, we know that even identical twins do not have 100% concordance in mental illness. Depending on the particular disorder, despite having exactly the same genes, a twin may have a 30-70% chance of having the same disorder as her afflicted twin. All genes interact with the environment. It takes something in the environment (which we collectively term stressors) to push the individual into mental illness. The genes are the diathesis, the genetic tendency. The environment provides stressors, external forces acting on the genes. Mental illness is the result of an interaction between the two.
>
> We can't do anything about the genes. We can do something about the stressors.
>
> One of the most important things you can offer your children is a knowledge of what you've been through. Given your age, I know that you grew up in a social climate that put a huge stigma on mental illness. Mental illness was often seen as a character flaw. It was hidden. It was denied.
>Actually, I did quite well, anxiety notwithstanding, until I was 52. I had 7 years of individual and group therapy when it was still paid for and it helped me very much. The last nine years have been a bitch. All starting with a lot of stress (layoffs, restructuring, etc), and jumping from one med to another prescribed by GPs and benzophobe pdocs. TCA, for one week, Prozac, Buspar, Xanax, withdraw from Xanax to avoid addiction. Go back on Valium. And so forth. Paxil was the worst.
> Without consciously deciding to do so, it is inevitable that you internalized some of that social message. Somehow, you just weren't trying hard enough. That's a stressor, in itself. From your genes' perpsective, your cognitive processes can be stressors. Being at peace with your mental state, "It is. I am.", accepting it for what it is, can reduce that cognitive stressor.
>
The stressor for me is wondering about bi-polar and whether the meds listed above triggered it.> > I assume, of course, that a course of action can be taken. Supplements would be one course.
>
> Absolutely. And, the way I look at supplements, they're a "free shot" at becoming healthier. Used with a little common sense, you can't hurt yourself. You can only feel better. (I know. There can be side-effects. I'm generalizing.)
>
> I don't mean to harp on the age thing, but as you get older, malnutrition becomes more and more likely. Declines in absorption capacity are probably a major factor there, but aging has its own demands on metabolism. Higher nutrient demand, and lower access to nutrients.
>
> My recommendations would be very broad.
>
> B-50 three times a day, plus extra folate and B-12.
> Vitamin C, 2000 mg/day.
> Zinc 30-40 mg/day. Selenium 200 mcg/day. Or, better still, a multi-mineral with extra zinc and selenium to hit those thresholds.
> Calcium/magnesium supp. Dose, I don't know, off the top of my head (I'm rushing this bit, sorry). Magnesium supps may, in particular, reduce the tendency to over-react to the environment.
> Antioxidants (oxidation processes lie at the heart of what we call aging, and may contribute to chronic anxiety): vitamin E 400-1200 IU/day; alpha-lipoic acid 50-200 mg/day.
> Because you mentioned anxiety, I would recommend soya lecithin granules, 2 teaspoons per day, plus phosphatidylserine 100-200 mg/day (lecithin contains three of the four essential phospholipids, but they have to synthesize the latter one). And niacinamide.
> Siberian ginseng may also help you become less reactive to the environment.
>
> > Where would one obtain niacinamide from a reliable source? Does it thin blood??
>
> Mail-order? Try i-herb (or is it iherb?). Google them. Great prices. I don't know of any effect on the blood clotting parameters.
>
> > BTW, the aspirin was for blood thinning due to high cholesterol and it really worked in my case. I lost 30% of my blood within an hour.
>
> I like your sense of humour. BTW, fish oil alone would address both issues. Despite my highly carnivorous diet, my triglycerides and cholesterol are excellent. Since starting my fish/fish oil regimen (I eat a lot of fish, and use fish oil), my total cholesterol and triglycerides declined 20%, and the ratio between HDL/LDL shifted from high-risk to low-risk. My blood pressure dropped by 12 points systolic and 15 points diastolic. And I haven't bled to death yet. <wink>
>
> >They assume, because it could not be confirmed, that I had a bleeding diverticula.
>
> Did your doctor know you had diverticulosis? Did he do an occult blood test before recommending aspirin?Yes. Plus a colonoscopy at 51 and 56. I'm in good question. For 61 I am in excellent physical condition. I have been jogging for 30 years, BP is 110/70. Resting heart rate of 55. Other than diverticula, I do not have any medical conditions, except cholesterol and sine wave anxiety. I have had an "ultra fast" cat scan of the heart and a full blown stress test. Both were normal. I think docs push statins just like SSRIs. Remember the NY Times article.
I am going back on the omega-3. Just ordered some from the aerobic guru, Kenneth Cooper's website. And will try niacinamide as you recommend.
Thanks for all your help and keep us "posted" pun intended.
Regards,
BobS.
> Take care.
>
> Lar
>
> P.S. I love questions (even though I'm really busy with my kids right now).
poster:BobS.
thread:250389
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030812/msgs/251704.html