Posted by Larry Hoover on August 15, 2003, at 7:03:11
In reply to For Katia and Larry, posted by BobS. on August 13, 2003, at 19:39:59
Sorry, Bob, for the delay in replying. Kids are a demanding responsibility.
> Katia,
> A short answer to your question is that the only psychotropic medication I am not afraid of is a benzo. Therefore, I wouldn't touch depakote especially after the last 10 years of try this try that. I am afraid of it and most other drugs.Given your intuitive "diagnosis" that you're leaning towards a bipolar spectrum pattern, wouldn't mood stabilization be a desired outcome? What about lithium?
> Larry,
> I have had a number of diagnoses over the years ranging from panic disorder to "soft" BP II. Current pdoc is a psycho pharmacologist only. He is very good but very unconcerned about prescribing high doses of this or that. Fortunately, he is not afraid of the benzophobes and that's why I take Xanax. Half life notwithstanding, it works."afraid of the benzophobes".... That's an interesting phrase.
Rhetorical question:
Once you recognize that you tolerate benzos, and have a doc who'll prescribe them, it seems reasonable to try different ones, doesn't it? You still experience "anxiety breakthrough" episodes.
> My symptoms are primarily anxiety; symptoms go up and down in severity. The anxiety, or anxiety like symptoms, was worse when I was required to take a SSRI by my earlier doctors, which is the reason I don't like SSRIs. I can go for months feeling quite normal, then the anxiety picks up, and I get down and unhappy. I can spend weeks in this condition and then return to "normal." I have read about anxious depression, hypomania and irritability, BP II atypical depression (I have rejection sensitivity)but not "leaden paralysis" whatever the hell that is.Extreme lethargy, would be my definition.
> I would like to find out if I am bipolar, primarily for the sake of my children.How old are your children? My intuition makes me wonder if there are loved ones around you who do not accept your mental health issues. Or, are your simply trying to learn enought that you can help your children do all they can to avoid some of the struggles you've faced?
> However, I am not about to take lithium or depakote to find out.
McPac has been posting about how useful a sub-clinical dose of lithium is, and others have responded in support of that dosing strategy. Just a thought.
> So until the genetic testing is available, I want to try supplementation to see if it levels me out.
IMHO, it will be decades before we will see any sort of "individual genes --> specific treatment" sort of mental health care.
> This would help me and confirm my suspicion.
I'll come back to the supplements, below.
> Also, I would be prepared to take action on the behalf of my children, now when they are young.
OK, you answered my question.
About genetic pedispositions, in general.... I like the diathesis/stressor model of mental illness. From twin studies, we know that even identical twins do not have 100% concordance in mental illness. Depending on the particular disorder, despite having exactly the same genes, a twin may have a 30-70% chance of having the same disorder as her afflicted twin. All genes interact with the environment. It takes something in the environment (which we collectively term stressors) to push the individual into mental illness. The genes are the diathesis, the genetic tendency. The environment provides stressors, external forces acting on the genes. Mental illness is the result of an interaction between the two.
We can't do anything about the genes. We can do something about the stressors.
One of the most important things you can offer your children is a knowledge of what you've been through. Given your age, I know that you grew up in a social climate that put a huge stigma on mental illness. Mental illness was often seen as a character flaw. It was hidden. It was denied.
Without consciously deciding to do so, it is inevitable that you internalized some of that social message. Somehow, you just weren't trying hard enough. That's a stressor, in itself. From your genes' perpsective, your cognitive processes can be stressors. Being at peace with your mental state, "It is. I am.", accepting it for what it is, can reduce that cognitive stressor.
> I assume, of course, that a course of action can be taken. Supplements would be one course.
Absolutely. And, the way I look at supplements, they're a "free shot" at becoming healthier. Used with a little common sense, you can't hurt yourself. You can only feel better. (I know. There can be side-effects. I'm generalizing.)
I don't mean to harp on the age thing, but as you get older, malnutrition becomes more and more likely. Declines in absorption capacity are probably a major factor there, but aging has its own demands on metabolism. Higher nutrient demand, and lower access to nutrients.
My recommendations would be very broad.
B-50 three times a day, plus extra folate and B-12.
Vitamin C, 2000 mg/day.
Zinc 30-40 mg/day. Selenium 200 mcg/day. Or, better still, a multi-mineral with extra zinc and selenium to hit those thresholds.
Calcium/magnesium supp. Dose, I don't know, off the top of my head (I'm rushing this bit, sorry). Magnesium supps may, in particular, reduce the tendency to over-react to the environment.
Antioxidants (oxidation processes lie at the heart of what we call aging, and may contribute to chronic anxiety): vitamin E 400-1200 IU/day; alpha-lipoic acid 50-200 mg/day.
Because you mentioned anxiety, I would recommend soya lecithin granules, 2 teaspoons per day, plus phosphatidylserine 100-200 mg/day (lecithin contains three of the four essential phospholipids, but they have to synthesize the latter one). And niacinamide.
Siberian ginseng may also help you become less reactive to the environment.> Where would one obtain niacinamide from a reliable source? Does it thin blood??
Mail-order? Try i-herb (or is it iherb?). Google them. Great prices. I don't know of any effect on the blood clotting parameters.
> BTW, the aspirin was for blood thinning due to high cholesterol and it really worked in my case. I lost 30% of my blood within an hour.
I like your sense of humour. BTW, fish oil alone would address both issues. Despite my highly carnivorous diet, my triglycerides and cholesterol are excellent. Since starting my fish/fish oil regimen (I eat a lot of fish, and use fish oil), my total cholesterol and triglycerides declined 20%, and the ratio between HDL/LDL shifted from high-risk to low-risk. My blood pressure dropped by 12 points systolic and 15 points diastolic. And I haven't bled to death yet. <wink>
>They assume, because it could not be confirmed, that I had a bleeding diverticula.
Did your doctor know you had diverticulosis? Did he do an occult blood test before recommending aspirin?
> Regards,
> BobS.Take care.
Lar
P.S. I love questions (even though I'm really busy with my kids right now).
poster:Larry Hoover
thread:250389
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030812/msgs/250996.html