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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by gabmeister on June 14, 2006, at 16:35:16
In reply to Re: Tried Effexor for Three Days- Need advice, posted by over 55 on June 14, 2006, at 15:27:11
You know... you think you're the only one! Isn't it amazing how many of us there are.
I'm 55. Married for 7 years, husband turned out to be gay. Divorced him. Met a wonderful man 4 yrs later go married. Great life. But "it" still happened.
My mom and grandma both suffered depression. (Genetic?) I remember in the 70's mom would have been in her 40's when her's hit. Back then the "cure" was a new miracle drug known as Valium to which she became heavily addicted for years (but, on the surface, no one would have known because she was completely functional). I remember being in my 20's and getting calls asking me to come over because she felt like she was going to jump over the balcony. I swore I'd never turn out "like that". As was said, back then no one talked about this "illness". I remember spending weeks with her, helping her through the valium addiction. I swear to god (on my mother's urn), her dreadfully understanding doc even told her, "honey, things would get much better for you... you need regular sex (mom was divorced). I don't think I'm allowed to use the curse words on this site that I used to describe that "doctor" (I hate to credit him with this title).
Well, the depression hit me in my early 40's as well. Long story. Major panic attacks (one so bad I ended up in hospital 'cause doc thought was actually having a heart attack right in his office - the shot of Nitro didn't stop it so he figured heart attack). Work was crappy (have a high stress job). Anxiety attacks. Finally diagosed with depression.
Prozac (made me very aggressive), Paxil (turned me into walking zombie) Zoloft (did dick all). Finally family-doc suggested Effexor so I thought what the heck, may as well try. Worked great! Felt human. After about a year and a half psycho-doc felt I could try coming off it. Weaned myself off very slowly. Felt fine for about a year when Mr. Depression decided he wanted to visit me again. Back on Effexor. Worked for a while (been on it for 4 years now). Then about 3 years ago noticed I was gaining more weight (had been gaining every time I was on AD's). I've gained a total of 50 pounds. Then little by little I stopped leaving the house (come home straight from work; weekends? Come home Friday nite and don't leave house 'til Monday morning; don't shower all weekend [yeah, yeah... I know... ugh!!!]) Right now, I never leave the house except to go to work and even that is a struggle. Bottom line, for the last 2 years I don't "wanna do ANYTHING". Why? Can't be bothered. Everything's toooo much effort. Just don't care. Just don't *feel* anything. Dead inside. Zero. Zip. Ziltch.
That's why I want off this stuff again. It worked great for a while and I feel it saved me and my sanity. But the side-effects are now just too much. The benefits no longer out-weight the negatives.
I want to feel. I want to be *alive*. I want to do things.
Started lowering doseage today. I figure it'll take a couple of months (that's the ONLY way to avoid the withdrawal effects).
I will do it.
I don't know if down the road I will need AD's again, time will tell.
But right now getting off is what *I* need to do for *me*.
Bless you all. I truly believe it's not the drugs that are "evil" it's this mental illness known as "depression". If you've never lived it you'll never understand it. I get soooo angry with people who will look you in the face and utter that stupid comment, "what have you got to be depressed about?" Idiots. It's not like being a teenager and breaking up with your boyfriend. Most of us cannot necessarily pinpoint "the why". It's our brains messing with us. Chemical imbalances that we can't control? JERKS!
I wish all the rest of you on this road a safe journey.
the gabmeister
Posted by dancingstar on June 14, 2006, at 16:57:22
In reply to Re: Tried Effexor for Three Days- Need advice, posted by gabmeister on June 14, 2006, at 16:35:16
I hope you all consider having an expert in the field check all of your hormone levels. Many of them start to drop as early as our late twenties. This can cause a lot of the discomfort that we feel.
It's a good idea to have your thyroid checked, your adrenal function, pregnenolone and DHEA, progesterone, estrogen, testosterone and your pituitary function.
I can't begin to tell you how much better I'm feeling since I've added in "natural" or compounded supplementation in the areas that were low. There's no doubt in my mind that Effexor caused many of my levels to be depleted, and then when I stopped taking it, I was a complete basket case for over a year. I'm finally healthy again, thanks to a wonderful doctor...but it did take about three months before I noticed a significant difference. Now I no longer experience anxiety at all; and while I never experienced depression until I took Effexor, that, too, has now vanished. The world is all bright again.
I don't know if this will work in all cases or for everyone, probably not, but in my heart, I sure feel like it's worth a try.
I hope you all feel better soon!
Posted by Violetskyye on June 14, 2006, at 17:01:55
In reply to Re: Tried Effexor for Three Days- Need advice, posted by over 55 on June 14, 2006, at 15:27:11
Re: <I would put myself in the "high functioning" depressive group, except for approx 3 x in life.
The weirdest thing is that people around me who see me work as a lawyer, even when I'm freaking out inside, think of me as sociable and competent, but pretending to be fine really took a toll on me. I actually closed my practice for two years, and have been just doing work for other lawyers. It has been hell on my ego, but much needed.
Back to the topic at hand. I think a lot of these meds are lifesavers for people, and some people need to just stay on them. My preference is to take nothing if I can get away with it. The withdrawal experiences people had with Effexor have scared me off of it after just three days, and I feel better today than I did on the drug. I'm really hoping I don't start suddenly having brain zaps or something after only being on it short time.
Posted by Violetskyye on June 14, 2006, at 17:05:13
In reply to Re: Tried Effexor for Three Days- Need advice, posted by dancingstar on June 14, 2006, at 16:57:22
> I hope you all consider having an expert in the field check all of your hormone levels. Many of them start to drop as early as our late twenties. This can cause a lot of the discomfort that we feel.
>
It's funny you say that, because my panic and anxiety problems the past three years started right when menopause started. I'm thinking of just trying low-dose estrogen and progesterone. Given that I'm also having drenching hot flashes and some bone loss, it'll help, I think. I have had two doctors say that all the recent hype about the added risk of hormones is exaggerated.
Posted by dancingstar on June 14, 2006, at 17:10:12
In reply to Re: Tried Effexor for Three Days- Need advice, posted by Violetskyye on June 14, 2006, at 17:05:13
Hi Violetskyye,
The hormones may help you tremendously...but please consider asking your doctor for bioidentical estrogen and progesterone, which you get from a compounding pharmacy. They are actually proven to be quite healthy for us, while the synthetic compounds are just different enough from the hormones that human beings make to be potentially dangerous...and certainly not as beneficial and protective as the bioidentical compounds.
Considering the circumstances, I'm quite sure that they will make you feel better!
Posted by Violetskyye on June 14, 2006, at 17:12:13
In reply to Re: Tried Effexor for Three Days- Need advice » Violetskyye, posted by dancingstar on June 14, 2006, at 17:10:12
> Hi Violetskyye,
>
> The hormones may help you tremendously...but please consider asking your doctor for bioidentical estrogen and progesterone, which you get from a compounding pharmacy.Oh, thanks. I've actually researched this, and was going to go in that direction. I would never take Premarin [Horse Estrogen], and cannot imagine why anyone would want to.
Posted by dancingstar on June 14, 2006, at 17:12:42
In reply to Re: Tried Effexor for Three Days- Need advice, posted by Violetskyye on June 14, 2006, at 17:05:13
In fact, why don't you have a look at www.hormoneandlongevitycenter.com. I think they explain a bit on their site, and you might find it interesting.
Posted by over 55 on June 15, 2006, at 8:41:44
In reply to Re: Tried Effexor for Three Days- Need advice » Violetskyye, posted by dancingstar on June 14, 2006, at 17:12:42
Wow...I have found some soulmates. I take the regular old horse serum Premarin (for last 15 years). Low dosage though ( : I had partial hysterectomy years ago with one ovary left and DR thought it best to do that. I have had no problems.
I so identify with all I am reading from all of you. Just hearing it has been helpful. It has been one week today I started to wean off the Effexor, with the 20 mg of Porzac added to transition to. A little nausea and fatique, but nothing real bad. I am supposed to go down another 75 mg this next week and by the third week be off it. I am taking all your advice and ready to go more slowly than that, if needed, to avoid alot of pain. I am not into pain!!
The family history of depression is phenominal really. There were lots of suicides in the family early on. Now people have just talked about it alot. My mother threatened often and just ended up sleeping the last 10 years of her life away.
My grown daughter suffers too and has been on meds for most of married life (14 yrs). She appears to be doing quite well. I know she blames me for alot of unhappiness in her childhood (and I thought I was doing quite well considering) and for her depression. She has chosen to not have a realtionship with me for the last 5 years and that has been very painful. My son (30) has also suffered from depression and took an overdose in mid 20's, but is doing much better now.
I am in a helping profession (social worker) and sometimes feel like a fraud telling other's how their life can be better and they can do better when I have made a pretty good mess of my own ( : I look pretty sucessful from the outside, owning a beautiful home, good job, travel alot, but getting through the day sometimes is such a struggle. I have no energy and my legs feel like they weigh a ton. I have to make myself go do things where I used to "want to". I guess my "want to" is broken!! Thanks to everyone who is choosing to share on this site. It really is helpful!!
Posted by Miriamne on June 15, 2006, at 10:09:17
In reply to Great...I take Premarin too, posted by over 55 on June 15, 2006, at 8:41:44
Dear Over55 and all other 50ish ladies here:
My depression history sounds very much like the ones you've all recounted here recently.
Let me just echo Over's sentiments about finding a group of women with such similar experiences with depression. It's like having a support group available all the time-- one you can use as needed, and are less likely to "overuse" (I was greatly helped by a group years ago, but probably stayed too long. The people were like family and were a great, great help to me; the only drawback was that it was hard to leave once I was doing better; ironically that probably delayed my dealing with some issues that would have been better addressed.)
And even though we're all dealing with medication problems, I still believe that medication is the Godsend of our time for those of us with a true, chronic, chemical-imbalanced depression. My life changed dramatically when I was able to control the cripplying depression I had suffered since I was in the 5th grade. No one deserves the Effexor experience (!), but I try to keep in mind the overall benefits of meds, esp. when I hit difficulties like the ones we've been talking about.
Nice to meet you all, ladies! Be seeing you around...
Miriamne.
Posted by over 55 on June 15, 2006, at 14:30:09
In reply to Great...I take Premarin too » over 55, posted by Miriamne on June 15, 2006, at 10:09:17
Hi all,
It is like a light bulb is going off in my head today. I have had some wierd physical symptoms within the last 6 months. Even after thorough medical testing nothing shows up as abnormal and now I am wondering how much is the Effexor. I had unexplainable chest pains while goiing up stairs or exertion of any kind. Had the MRI heart imaging and treadmill test along with numerous EKG's all coming back within the normal range. I just don't "do stairs" now ( : or go very slowly. Also I sweat (only from my head) upon any exertion. I feel like a fool all drippy and wet headed. It is like a furnace starts in my head. It is different than a hot flash. Been there. Done that. The Dr said, when I told him I wanted to go on something besides Effexor, "Well there is no reason not to if you are willing to not feel so good for a couple of months this summer". I should have asked exactly what he meant then. What was I thinking??? I do feel like my whole system is out of whack. I feel weak and shakey right now. I need to find somone who knows about suppliments etc. I take some, but just what other's have said worked for them, so I try them. Everyone is so different. There used to be a Health Center where you give them a strand of hair and they tell you what you need. I need to check this out. Thanks everyone. You are a great encouragement.
Posted by dancingstar on June 15, 2006, at 17:11:32
In reply to Re: Great...I take Premarin too, posted by over 55 on June 15, 2006, at 14:30:09
Hi Over,
Just so you know, I sweat like a -- well, let's just say it wasn't pretty -- when I exercised during the time that I was taking Effexor...and miraculously, it stopped when I quit taking it.
Also, in case anyone is having annoying stomach issues, those also went away when I stopped taking Effexor, though they were replaced with colitis that lasted a good year and a half after I stopped taking it.
After what I went through, I'd like to see the drug removed from the shelves entirely so that no one else is harmed by it. It does so many things that if you don't know better, you can easily attribute to getting older, but it's not that, really, it's not. In my case, at least, in every single situation, it was a side effect of Effexor or of having taken it and stopped taking any SSRI/SNRI to replace it. I wouldn't go near those drugs if my life depended on it...and believe me, for at least 1 1/2 years, it nearly did. It's not easy to leave those drugs behind. They are harder to stop taking entirely than just about anything on earth.
Posted by Violetskyye on June 15, 2006, at 17:42:14
In reply to Re: Great...I take Premarin too, posted by over 55 on June 15, 2006, at 14:30:09
I've been completely dizzy and exhausted the last few days. Actually got out of bed at 3pm, and am still tired. I drove to a local fast food restaurant last night, and was dizzy and panicky the whole time, and took 5 minutes to compose myself in the parking lot before I could go in and order. When I got home, I almost passed out from what is normally just a routine thing.
I have been having a lot of anxiety lately, but after 3 days on Effexor and then stopping two days ago, I have had exhaustion, derealization, dizziness and agoraphobia like crazy. Can't really get anything done, and everyone around me just thinks I'm lazy or nuts. Help! Anyone else had this experience?
Posted by Overwhelmed on June 15, 2006, at 18:39:19
In reply to Dizzy, tired, after going off Effexor after 3 days, posted by Violetskyye on June 15, 2006, at 17:42:14
Thank you for this site.
I have been taking Ativan for one month and it has helped my sleep issues satisfactorily and reduced my anxiety. Yesterday I took 37.5 mg of Effexor XR and had a terrible night's sleep. I would think, from the posts here, that Effexor would not undo the sleep med. Today, I am exhausted. It's either because I didn't sleep well last night and/or the Effexor. I didn't take the Effexor today since I have to work tomorrow and NEED to sleep tonight. I figure I will restart on the weekend.
I too have a graduate level education, run at a fairly high level and can't stand the sense getting bogged down with anxiety and depression issues. Yes, marriage is not supportive, kids complicate the situation and selling the business is scary. Yet, my cognitive therapist says I absolutely MUST change my situation. I figure the pills are a must to keep the screaming-meamies away. It is hell being 55. I thought now was the time to kick back and feel good about the last 20 years. Instead, I am contemplating changing EVERYTHING but can I trust my instincts and my heart to do the things that MIGHT make me happy?
Posted by over 55 on June 16, 2006, at 8:34:43
In reply to Re: Dizzy, tired, after going off Effexor after 3 » Violetskyye, posted by Overwhelmed on June 15, 2006, at 18:39:19
I have gotten so excited over finding a "site" that fits me so well I am challenged to try everything. BUT that is impossible so last night I swallowed a couple fish oil Omega 3 capsules figuring that couldn't hurt. I was tempted to take my morning dose of Effexor (75mg) but have went 2 days without it so did not. I feel a little more clear headed today and slept really well last night. I will say though I have never had problems with sleeping. I listen to paralyminal tapes at night and fall asleep almost immediately. I am so glad I found you all to "chat" with about these issues. If you are over 55 or overweight that is an easy "blame" for anything that ails you. I am excited about maybe the extreme fatique and aches and pains diminsihing if I am off the Effexor. I haven't heard much about Prozac which is what I am weaning off Effexor with and plan to keep on as small a dose as possible to manage the depression. Any thoughts or experiences about this??
Posted by dancingstar on June 16, 2006, at 10:19:29
In reply to Re: Dizzy, tired, after going off Effexor after 3, posted by over 55 on June 16, 2006, at 8:34:43
Hi Over,
You might want to check out the Fibro and Fatigue Centers. You can Google it as I'm not sure of the web address. It sounds a lot to me like you could have fibromyalgia/chronic fatigue syndrome.
Posted by Violetskyye on June 16, 2006, at 21:03:25
In reply to Re: Dizzy, tired, after going off Effexor after 3, posted by dancingstar on June 16, 2006, at 10:19:29
> Hi Over,
>
> You might want to check out the Fibro and Fatigue Centers. You can Google it as I'm not sure of the web address. It sounds a lot to me like you could have fibromyalgia/chronic fatigue syndrome.I definitely feel like there is more going on than just Effexor withdrawal. I had to go to court today, and it was rough because my client is dying from the cancer the defendant's product gave her, so of course I have to perform at peak level. Well, I got up and argued just fine, even though the room was spinning around, and won the motion, which is a miracle, since I couldn't get out of bed yesterday.
The dizziness is just not passing. Wondering what to do next.
Posted by Overwhelmed on June 16, 2006, at 22:12:29
In reply to Re: Dizzy, tired, after going off Effexor after 3, posted by Violetskyye on June 16, 2006, at 21:03:25
Thank you for your responses.
I discovered last fall just how effective Flexeril was at giving me a decent night's sleep. Flexeril is frequently used by Fibro patients. Worked like a charm. My PDr refused to prescribe it since technically it is not for sleep issues. I can get it from friends.
I re-started the 37.5 mg Effexor XR today and was yawning every minute after three hours. Amazing how the drug is not supposed to provide a benefit for weeks and yet this minor side-effect is immediate.
The Fibro thing is interesting. I don't really understand it but certainly stress at night defeats getting decent sleep so relaxing the muscles makes sense to me. The Ativan helps but Flexeril is generic and carries few side effects so, in that way, it has advantages.
I realize depression is an issue for me but I really don't want to get into higher and higher doses of EXR because of the withdrawal thing.
Posted by dancingstar on June 17, 2006, at 1:50:26
In reply to Re: Dizzy, tired, after going off Effexor after 3, posted by Violetskyye on June 16, 2006, at 21:03:25
Violetskyye,
I know how difficult it is to believe that what you're feeling now is actually withdrawal, but I had those exact symptoms for more than a year after I stopped taking Effexor, though they got gradually better.
I know that I am not typical, but there are at least thousands like me that have had a very difficult time getting off Effexor. Somewhere around the third week of quitting, I quite seriously thought I was going to die.
Now, I have to look back and see if it was you that only took E for three days. If it was you, then I am positive that your withdrawal symptoms will end pretty soon. There seems to be strong correlation between how much we took and how long we have taken Effexor and how bad our withdrawal symptoms are and how long those symptoms last. All I can say is it felt like the worst flu I could imagine. Every now and then it seemed to be getting better and I thought I was out of the woods only to be disappointed when the symptoms returned the next day.
I so pray that no one here goes through the same thing that I did, but if you do, just know that it's pretty normal.
If you want to stay drug free, another thing that you might be able to get a doctor to give you is natural seratonin. It doesn't cause any problems that I'm aware of, though it may make one a little tired. You must have your blood seratonin levels checked before you take it to be sure that you actually need it, but it's highly likely that those of us coming off of Effexor have low levels of seratonin.
Posted by SLS on June 17, 2006, at 8:17:38
In reply to Re: Dizzy, tired, after going off Effexor after 3 » Violetskyye, posted by dancingstar on June 17, 2006, at 1:50:26
> If you want to stay drug free, another thing that you might be able to get a doctor to give you is natural seratonin
You probably mean 5-HTP.Serotonin does not cross the blood-brain barrier and does not enter the brain. However, the immediate precursor, 5-HTP, does. You should be able to find 5-HTP at any vitamin shop.
- Scott
Posted by dancingstar on June 17, 2006, at 8:35:55
In reply to Re: Dizzy, tired, after going off Effexor after 3, posted by SLS on June 17, 2006, at 8:17:38
My medical doctor uses seratonin in both capsules and by injection. It works very well to raise blood levels of seratonin.
I do not mean 5-HTP, which did nothing for me when I was sick.
Posted by SLS on June 17, 2006, at 10:17:15
In reply to Re: Dizzy, tired, after going off Effexor after 3, posted by dancingstar on June 17, 2006, at 8:35:55
> My medical doctor uses seratonin in both capsules and by injection. It works very well to raise blood levels of seratonin.
>
> I do not mean 5-HTP, which did nothing for me when I was sick.
I wouldn't presume to account for your experience. However, serotonin does not cross the blood-brain barrier, and cannot enter the brain when it is administered peripherally.
- Scott
Posted by dancingstar on June 17, 2006, at 10:23:22
In reply to Re: Dizzy, tired, after going off Effexor after 3 » dancingstar, posted by SLS on June 17, 2006, at 10:17:15
I know that you are not a doctor, Scott, and mine is a proctor on Harvard's board of antiaging medicine. He is one of the most respected doctors in the country.
I would suggest that you do further research on the subject if it interests you rather than insult me by implying that I don't know what I'm talking about or that my doctor is a quack.
Posted by gabmeister on June 17, 2006, at 10:51:01
In reply to Re: Dizzy, tired, after going off Effexor after 3, posted by dancingstar on June 17, 2006, at 10:23:22
Hey guys... please...
I don't think Scott meant to insult anyone, just passing on what he thinks. By the same token, Scott, your suggestion was a bit out of line in that it does sound like you are second guessing the professional.
BUT, that being said, let's not use this forum to get into a slugging match.
Let's face it, we all have our own thoughts on this whole Effexor thing and we're all simply trying to learn and share experiences.
And each experience is very personal.
Bless you all. May we all get through this hell of depression. We need to do what we need to do.
Posted by SLS on June 17, 2006, at 10:58:34
In reply to Re: Dizzy, tired, after going off Effexor after 3, posted by dancingstar on June 17, 2006, at 10:23:22
> I know that you are not a doctor, Scott, and mine is a proctor on Harvard's board of antiaging medicine. He is one of the most respected doctors in the country.
>
> I would suggest that you do further research on the subject if it interests you rather than insult me by implying that I don't know what I'm talking about or that my doctor is a quack.
I have not implied anything. I was simply stating a fact. I appreciate your suggestion for me to do some research. Performing a search using Google should demonstrate that I already have.If administering serotonin peripherally mitigates withdrawal symptoms, I would be fascinated to learn the mechanism by which this happens. Sometimes, empirical observation challenges existing paradigms. Your doctor is not necessarily a quack.
- Scott
Posted by dancingstar on June 17, 2006, at 11:04:13
In reply to Re: Dizzy, tired, after going off Effexor after 3 » dancingstar, posted by SLS on June 17, 2006, at 10:58:34
> > I know that you are not a doctor, Scott, and mine is a proctor on Harvard's board of antiaging medicine. He is one of the most respected doctors in the country.
> >
> > I would suggest that you do further research on the subject if it interests you rather than insult me by implying that I don't know what I'm talking about or that my doctor is a quack.
>
>
> I have not implied anything. I was simply stating a fact. I appreciate your suggestion for me to do some research. Performing a search using Google should demonstrate that I already have.
>
> If administering serotonin peripherally mitigates withdrawal symptoms, I would be fascinated to learn the mechanism by which this happens. Sometimes, empirical observation challenges existing paradigms. Your doctor is not necessarily a quack.
>
>
> - Scott
>
Scott,I don't appreciate your baiting me by saying things like my doctor isn't necessarily a quack.
You've done this to me many times before on this board, I have to assume, because you disagree with my position and want me to be blocked from speaking here. I will simply point out that your words are unkind and uncalled for.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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