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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on July 26, 2009, at 14:14:07
At least for this week, to seeing him at the other office. Without a reason really. He says we'll talk on Tuesday.
I'd have to see him on different days. And the days he's at the other office aren't spread out enough to go twice a week there.
Twice in July I saw him at the other office. Both times he was more relaxed, more focused, and he stayed awake. It made me more upset about the many times he isn't focused and has trouble staying awake. He said Friday it wasn't me. But he's already said it was me. He said that my voice was low and flat and I'd be a great voice for a hypnosis tape. He didn't say it in a mean way, but he did say it and he can't unsay it now.
In addition, he said something so stupid Friday that I fear he doesn't know me at all. He said that if I was upset at loss, I should get a new girlfriend. That when men are upset at losing a girlfriend, they get another girlfriend. Since he ought to know how hard it is for me to attach to anyone, that actually made me angry. And he repeated it. I know people say stupid things sometimes. I say stupid things sometimes. But coupled with the heavy lids and sleepiness, it's given me this horrible image of him in that office, and I'm scared to go back there.
Scared of what I don't know. If that's the person he is, I'd be better off seeing it.
He sounded annoyed with me.
I had called not long after our session, and my intent was to ask him to reschedule our appointments to times at the other office. I called him later when I first found out about my test results and new meds when I was really upset. I didn't tell him that time to call me back. But I called Saturday to remind him that I was asking to reschedule to Monday from Tuesday. He didn't call back until Saturday night, which was fine, his answer was no, and he didn't even ask about my health.
Sometimes I really feel like an idiot. To invest so much in this therapist/mommy. I wish I could find a new girlfriend. But I will never find another him. :(
Posted by workinprogress on July 26, 2009, at 14:56:24
In reply to My therapist said no, posted by Dinah on July 26, 2009, at 14:14:07
(((((Dinah)))))
Oh Dinah... I don't even know what to say. That just sounds horrible. It is amazing how far the pendulum can swing sometimes in terms of your T and whether he's on or not. Seems as though consistency is not his forte. It's too bad, because I think it makes it unnecessarily hard on you. As we all know, attaching is hard enough, this process is hard enough, being inconsistent just makes it all the harder. It's kind of amazing you attached to him in the first place- or has the inconsistency grown over the years?
Hang in there. The great thing is that you all do a great job of talking about things and trying to work through them...
xo
WIP
Posted by TherapyGirl on July 26, 2009, at 16:07:55
In reply to My therapist said no, posted by Dinah on July 26, 2009, at 14:14:07
I'm so sorry Dinah. As so often seems to happen with both our Ts, he appears to be completely separated from the therapy process with you right now. I know how painful that is. I also know that you have managed to correct him on this previously and will no doubt manage it again.
I can't wait to hear his reasoning for not allowing you to schedule at the other office.
Posted by Phillipa on July 26, 2009, at 16:31:53
In reply to My therapist said no, posted by Dinah on July 26, 2009, at 14:14:07
I agree that was not nice of him at all and how does a girlfriend solve your problems and esecially when you say you have medical results to discuss with him. I'm so sorry. Love Phillipa
Posted by friesandcoke on July 26, 2009, at 17:30:38
In reply to My therapist said no, posted by Dinah on July 26, 2009, at 14:14:07
if he is making you feel this uncomfortable frequently you have the right to move on. i know you know that....but just wanted to say so. Hurtful comments can be passive aggressive behavior, even from a T. Especially from a T since they can't come right out and attack you. If you think your T doesn't "like" you, I would move on. It is going to make you feel even worse about yourself thinking he doesn't so much as "like" you. I know you didn't say anything about that but I wanted to throw that in. I haven't felt "liked" by any of the therapists I have interviewed, really. None of them have been the friendly, welcoming types. I mean you are going there with painful issues, you would think they would go out of their way to make you feel welcomed on your first visit instead of just acting like you are just another appointment they have that day. And that feeling has been a real turn off for me. I want to feel really understood and compassion when I go for a first appointment and explain my old T has retired and I am sad.
Posted by Dinah on July 26, 2009, at 20:20:47
In reply to Re: My therapist said no » Dinah, posted by workinprogress on July 26, 2009, at 14:56:24
He hasn't changed all that much. I take the worse parts of him with the better. And mostly I just ask him to please wake up, or ask him if he needs to stand up and walk around, or whatever. We talk about it at times, but mostly I accept it.
But being somewhere else and having it not happen either time made it worse somehow. So now I'm blaming the office, when of course it isn't the office. Sigh. It likely isn't the office. Both times I saw him at the other office, I was not only the first client of the day I was also the only client of the day. It's not like I can arrange that situation all that often. :(
I can try to talk louder, but somehow that never works.
Thanks, Workinprogress.
Posted by Dinah on July 26, 2009, at 20:24:05
In reply to Re: My therapist said no » Dinah, posted by TherapyGirl on July 26, 2009, at 16:07:55
He might have been booked up. Or he might have scheduled something for that day. He didn't say.
I suppose it's possible that he wants to go back to the office I normally see him at to discuss it so that I break the association of his being sleepy with that office. But I doubt it. :(
I'd like to think it's my perception of him that is so inconstant. And that if I could see him clearly, he would be far more constant than I think.
But I think my perception is just fine.
Posted by Dinah on July 26, 2009, at 20:27:50
In reply to Re: My therapist said no » Dinah, posted by Phillipa on July 26, 2009, at 16:31:53
Apparently my therapist believes the solution to losing something you care about is to find something else to care about. All girlfriends are interchangeable? He is a very resilient guy (even though he is awful in a crisis) so maybe that does work for him.
I'm not resilient at all. And I don't care easily. He ought to know that. Once would have been a stupid joke. But repeating it seems odd to me, if he actually knows who I am.
Maybe he has an evil twin. Or a stupid and insensitive one.
Posted by Dinah on July 26, 2009, at 20:42:32
In reply to Re: My therapist said no, posted by friesandcoke on July 26, 2009, at 17:30:38
Well....
To be fair to him, it wasn't said in a negative way, if you mean the comment about my voice being flat and low and hypnotic.
He'd been lying to me for years. He'd say he just had lunch, or he'd been up late, or... Anything but admit that he was bored or that it was me.
I was happy when he was finally honest with me. I find honesty oddly reassuring from him because we have a long and strong relationship. I'd rather he was honest because then I know that my perceptions are accurate, and we can deal with the truth.
I was so proud of him the first time he admitted that sometimes he was bored. Not that he was bored at the time we were speaking of it, but that there were occasional times in our long relationship that he was bored. That seemed so self evident (because really how could he never ever be bored in all that time?) that I was relieved to hear him admit it.
He does like me. And he does care about me. He even loves me, in a therapist sort of way. Those things I know. As much from the things he says to me in anger as the things he says to me with affection. I also irritate him at times. I bore him at times. I frustrate him often. And I very frequently cause him to feel sleepy.
At this point, I just want to do whatever it takes to keep him alert. If a different office can do that, I want the different office.
Posted by Nadezda on July 27, 2009, at 10:52:31
In reply to My therapist said no, posted by Dinah on July 26, 2009, at 14:14:07
Hi, Dinah.
Sorry about this misunderstanding with your T. (I say misunderstanding because I think maybe he's trying to be a bit provocative-- not in a manipulative way, but in the sense of thinking you're capable of dealing with some pushing-- and it may be he miscalculates rather badly and ends up doing stupid things. My T certainly does.) It sounds like one of those bad moments when people are just on very different emotional trajectories and the resulting turbulence throws up a lot of emotional waves.
If I were you-- and really, I'm not sure I could do this-- I"d try to ride the waves, and remember the times that you two were able to make something positive from misunderstandings. It doesn't always happen-- sometimes there are gulfs between people-- and maybe he's trying to become something more (if not entirely different from) your T/M. Maybe he wants to be a better T/M-- and feels that he hasn't quite done you enough good. At least that's what redeems my T from all his misjudgments, misstatements, failures of imagination, and harsh words. I know he's trying his best, even if he's misguided, and occasionally stupid and/or frequently downright mean. (Not to say that it's okay, but I do feel that it was worth it, because of the progress I've made.)
I'm sure he doesn't think you're usually flat-- maybe he was just being defensive-- or saying that he thinks the emotions and energy between you aren't office-dependent, but are connection-dependent. As for the girlfriend, that's utterly silly. I have no idea what he's thinking-- other than the type of thing my T tends to think-- but it's so child-like to say that. I wouldn't take that too seriously-- I'd just say he was having a bad day, and letting himself say things that maybe flash across his mind, but that he himself generally knows are silly and unworthy thoughts.
If you can meet the challenge of the bad office, maybe it will strengthen the sense of being vital anywhere-- of being able to surmount obstacles and make things alive despite them. I do think you can--- and I also hope he'll agree to change offices, if you feel it's safer right now. You can continue in either place, though-- if you don't get too spooked by what happened.
by the way-- I'm concerned about your health. Maybe the overeating manifested itself quickly-- I know they always say to fast before these tests-- and I suspect they're more sensitive to immediate effects than they say. Why don't you talk over with your doctor how you can reverse this? I have a feeling that you may be able to--
I very much hope you're feeling better today.
hugs, Nadezda
Posted by Dinah on July 27, 2009, at 12:58:23
In reply to Re: My therapist said no, posted by Nadezda on July 27, 2009, at 10:52:31
You definitely have reason to understand the dynamics involved. Unfortunately. :(
The comment about my flat tone was purely literal. The more I get into my emotional self, my voice does tend to become monotone, and softer. So when I'm saying the most sensitive things, I'm saying it in a hypnotic sort of voice that puts him to sleep. Mind you, staying awake is a problem for him in general. I think he works as much as he can and doesn't take much care to get enough sleep. He says, and I believe him, that his wife complains he can't sit down without falling asleep.
I'm not sure why it didn't seem to be a problem at his second office. Maybe it was the novelty? Or maybe it was because I was his only client those days? But both times I was there I told him that I liked him better there, and it's true.
I know he'll try to stay awake at his regular office. He already tries. He puts B-12 under his tongue for a quick boost. He makes sure he has a vat of coffee at his side. He moves around. I don't see what more he can do. I try to be more entertaining. I try to be louder. Two sessions ago I loudly clapped my hands. I told him my visions of therapy lately have been of me sitting on the floor by his feet, and grabbing his hands and telling him to wake up. And that if his eyelids started to droop *one more time* I was going to do that. But of course I never did get the nerve. I've thought of handing him an electronic dog collar and shocking him by remote whenever he starts to drop off. But I figure that might be a form of aversion therapy. I don't want him to be averse to seeing me.
On my end, I'm not sure how much I can change. I've often wondered if my emotional self is accessed through some form of self hypnosis. Maybe the soft flat voice is indicative of that, and maybe it induces him to enter the same state I'm in.
I don't know. :(
The girlfriend remark I think I can ignore. He's not usually that childish. Or teenagerish I should say. I have to say though that his candid remarks sometimes leave me feeling a bit less esteem for him than I would like. lol.
I looked up my old test results last night, and I'm a bit less upset. While it's true that my last reading was 7.0, the ones before that were in the high sevens and low eights. I'm a bit surprised my internist didn't add a new medication earlier. Stress makes the numbers go up, and stress has definitely been present, even if my binge eating started only recently.
On the other hand, I seemed to have been shocked right out of the binge eating. I'm trying to watch my carbs. And I had my first Januvia without any of the side effects that I read about.
I daresay we'll get through this. We get through everything. But sometimes I think it's a problem on my part to be so attached that I will put up with anything to maintain a relationship. The only thing that will ever make me quit is if he has emotionally left me first. It's a good thing that he is not the type to take advantage of that.
Posted by Dinah on July 27, 2009, at 13:05:29
In reply to Re: My therapist said no » Nadezda, posted by Dinah on July 27, 2009, at 12:58:23
> It's a good thing that he is not the type to take advantage of that.
On the other hand, I have a blistering tongue. I'm sure he'd find himself very sorry if he acted inappropriately.
Posted by rskontos on July 28, 2009, at 11:24:42
In reply to My therapist said no, posted by Dinah on July 26, 2009, at 14:14:07
Dinah,
I am so sorry he is so inflexible in this and I do understand the sleepiness my t does that sometimes too. He says it isn't me but it is upsetting all the same. And if my t said it was me, well I might not go back.
And I guess he is allowed a few stupid remarks even now and then but he should take health seriously. It affects how you feel mentally.
I don't know what to say but ((((((((((Dinah)))))))))))))).
Maybe Poet will come give him a cyberslap.
rsk
Posted by Dinah on July 28, 2009, at 13:14:18
In reply to Re: My therapist said no » Dinah, posted by rskontos on July 28, 2009, at 11:24:42
I think I must be very odd in that the flat voice comment was actually reassuring to me.
He totally took ownership of the sleepiness today. He said if a therapist was as sleepy with him as he was with me he wouldn't come back. And that it is totally his issue and not my responsibility to change my presentation to keep him awake. He told me how hard he tried to stay awake, I told him I was aware of that, but it just made it even worse.
Today he took several B-12 chews as we started, made sure to fill up on coffee, and actually managed to stay awake and alert.
He doesn't think he'd be any more likely to stay awake at his other office, and discouraged me from switching for that reason.
He was very nice, very caring, and yet somehow I don't feel a whole lot better.
Posted by Nadezda on July 28, 2009, at 16:50:01
In reply to Re: My therapist said no » rskontos, posted by Dinah on July 28, 2009, at 13:14:18
My T falls asleep, or looks as if he's struggling (not entirely successfully) to keep his eyes open-- lots of time. It comes in phases. I know he overbooks himself and tries to do too much-- and that he rarely if ever gets enough sleep or slows down. Once or twice I did feel as if I was also droning on or a bit lost myself-- but that doesn't mean it's okay for him to nod off
I guess sometimes when a T feels a little more comfortable with one P, they 're less vigilant and tense-- and that promotes the sleepiness. Not that it's any more acceptable for that reason.The last time my T semi-fell asleep, I decided that if he did it the next time, I was going to end the session and tell him I wouldn't pay. Which would be a departure for me. But I"m paying him lots of money for his insights and understanding, and if he's semi-conscious, I cant see how he's doing his job.
Sometimes I ask if he's tired. But I do think it's his schedule and not me at all. I'm really glad your T took responsibility-- but do you still feel that it's somehow you? or something you're doing? Other than being someone he feels less guarded with, I'm sure it isn't anything like that. I do think he absolutely has to be awake-- and if he needs 10 cups of coffee and two cokes, then he should take them. You deserve that!
Nadezda
Posted by Dinah on July 28, 2009, at 17:41:27
In reply to Re: My therapist said no, posted by Nadezda on July 28, 2009, at 16:50:01
Do you really not feel bad about yourself?
It's all very unfortunate, in that the more upset I get, and the more emotional I get, the flatter and softer my voice gets, and the more likely he is to feel sleepy. He also used the word breathy, but I told him he can't use that word about my voice anymore.
In general I suppose I know that it's always the therapist's responsibility to stay awake. And in particular, he'll admit (and I knew already) that he stays up too late, works too long, etc. He does his clients a disservice by trying to do too much. It seems to me that he is always afraid that his income sources will dry up and he needs to take grab work while he can. That is totally my interpretation, and nothing he's ever said or done.
But I also feel responsible. We've seen each other for so very long, and it's bound to get boring to him since he's not emotionally engaged the way I am. He swears he is emotionally engaged, and I believe him. But it can't possibly be as much as it is on my side. I feel some urge to present material that will engage his interest enough for him to stay awake.
It's something I just accept about him, and would probably continue to accept (and will continue to accept no doubt). But it seemed like the other office might be a solution, and that appealed so much that the status quo seemed intolerable. When I lose hope again, I'll go back to accepting it.
I was impertinent enough to ask him if he's talked to his sleep doctor about his excessive daytime sleepiness, and he admitted that he hadn't seen him for a while. I told him how helpful Provigil has been to me. Perhaps he'll be inclined to get a checkup.
Posted by rskontos on July 29, 2009, at 14:15:16
In reply to Re: My therapist said no » rskontos, posted by Dinah on July 28, 2009, at 13:14:18
I think maybe it isn't comforting because you are now aware of a problem of his that affects how he deals with you and the most important thing in the room should only be you and your needs. IT seems that his issue is getting in the way. At least that is how I would feel. I think sometimes we modify our behavior due to how we see ourselves affecting them and that just isn't what needs to happen in therapy.
I do understand mine. Mine does the coffee thing too and says it isn't me but sometimes it is just hard to ignore it and I get mad and clam up. He knows and usually gets more alert when I stop talking suddenly. I told him that this behavior reminds me of my father, ugh.
I think it is the fact that now they suddenly look more human and not perfect to us. And that isn't a comfort is it?
rsk
Posted by Dinah on July 30, 2009, at 0:41:27
In reply to Re: My therapist said no » Dinah, posted by rskontos on July 29, 2009, at 14:15:16
I think usually I take it pretty well. I usually ask him if he needs to walk around, or something like that. Sometimes I talk about my fears that I'm boring him. It was just the experience of something different that made the norm so intolerable.
I wonder how many people have to deal with this? It's would be a likely hazard of the profession, especially as therapists get older. I know I wouldn't have much of a chance of staying awake while sitting for long periods of time.
Oh well. I have to live with what I can't change, unless I'm willing to walk away. Which I'm not. He's still more helpful than not.
This is the end of the thread.
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