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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by muffled on September 27, 2007, at 11:13:00
In reply to Re: Why people goto have sex atall?, posted by Maria01 on September 27, 2007, at 10:10:54
Posted by JoniS on September 28, 2007, at 9:56:58
In reply to Why people goto have sex atall?, posted by muffled on September 27, 2007, at 1:13:29
Muffled,
I saw on GMA or something that there are "metrosexual" couples who have no desire to have sex. Some are married and some are just couples. I found it extremely odd, but there seems to be a small population of such persons out there.
IMO sex [done well] is such a fantastic, indescribable, incredible, extremely intimate, unbelievable, completely (well almost completely) fulfilling, (need I go on?) experience, that it is tragic that everyone can't enjoy the sheer pleasure of it. It is a gift from God. (And it's a gift to yourself!)
So, if I were in a similar situation as yours, I would seek an expert's help, and if that expert didn't help, I'd search the world over to find the one who could help. But... that's just me.
Good Luck!
Joni
Posted by muffled on September 28, 2007, at 19:48:51
In reply to Re: Why people goto have sex atall? » muffled, posted by JoniS on September 28, 2007, at 9:56:58
Hey Joni, how you doing? You not posted much bout how you doing.
Sigh, you sound like my T regarding sex. She thinks its wonderful apparently too :-( :-)
Thats why I can't say much to her bout it.
Her view is so utterly diff than mine. I think I tend to view sex as an act, a physical act. Its done with urgency to reach the fufillment. It can be hurtful and dominating. It is a physical invasion. It can be intimidating by virtue of the power, of the urgency. Maybe there's good sex out there....but to me there is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much bad bout it. People getting hurt by it. Directly or indirectly. Sure, nothing wrong w/getting your rocks off I suppose, but there is SO much that is frightening about it.
I feel so bad for my hubby :-(
M
Posted by rskontos on September 30, 2007, at 17:50:55
In reply to Re: Why people goto have sex atall?, posted by muffled on September 28, 2007, at 19:48:51
M, I am new to this board, I have been on the meds board and got redirected here when I saw your post. I can relate to your issue. It was ok for me when I was younger but I think I could go forever now without it. I am having enough issues without that and I dissociate with so much of life that I don't have much feeling for it at all. My reason are different than yours but they are there and I get upset when they are taken seriously. It must be hard not to feel like you can talk to your T. I view it as an act too. Anyway, I just wanted know that you aren't alone.
Posted by muffled on September 30, 2007, at 19:43:52
In reply to Re: Why people goto have sex atall?, posted by rskontos on September 30, 2007, at 17:50:55
Posted by JoniS on October 1, 2007, at 13:59:17
In reply to Re: Why people goto have sex atall?, posted by muffled on September 28, 2007, at 19:48:51
Ok Muffled,
Since you posted this subject, it makes me think you do want to dig into it. (or at least you did that day, you may not now - lol!) So I will persist.
I totally understand that everyone is different and we don't all feel the same about sex and everything else. But, since you did bring it up and you did say you felt bad for your hubby, I suspect that you would like to work on that area, someday. I jsut wonder, not that I am asking for details, but I'm wondering if you happen to know the reason that you feel that way:
"...I think I tend to view sex as an act, a physical act. Its done with urgency to reach the fufillment. It can be hurtful and dominating. It is a physical invasion. It can be intimidating by virtue of the power, of the urgency. Maybe there's good sex out there....but to me there is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much bad bout it. People getting hurt by it. Directly or indirectly. Sure, nothing wrong w/getting your rocks off I suppose, but there is SO much that is frightening about it"
I am sorry that it seems frighful and hurtful and an invasion for you, but those things are not normal. ... Well except for maybe the first time or 2 but that's not your situation (I assume because you have kids).
For me, sometimes it is just a physical act. And, if I let my husband have sex when I have no desire to, it is an invasion. So, therapy has helped me to be able to say "not now" to my husband, instead of giving in to appease him. As far as pain, I know that some people have pain with it, but there are things that can be done to take that away as well. Sometimes for me it is a very loving connection, and I don't feel I have to hurry, I can tell my H what I want. Sometimes (like most of the last few years) I dissociate in that my mind is with someone other than my H, but he doesn't know that. I feel a little guilty about that, but it's what I need right now. One other thing, sometimes, when I get to be the persuer, me seeking it out and me sort of in charge - how when where, I get a lot of satisfaction from that.
Anyway, if you're fine with where you are, I respect that. But if you believe your case is hopeless or incurable, I don't. I think if you find good help, things could change.
Sorry so long, and sorry if I've intruded too far with this. It's hard for me to understand.
Be happy!
ps thanks for asking how I'm doing. I guess I'm pretty good - for this week! lol!
Posted by muffled on October 2, 2007, at 21:50:26
In reply to Re: Why people goto have sex atall? » muffled, posted by JoniS on October 1, 2007, at 13:59:17
Thanks Joni.
My hubby is wonderful.
I feel bad cuz I say no all the time.
:-(
I think it would be so good for him, and for his stress if I could do it.
I love him, he is a good man.
But I just can't. I frozen, and inside my head it screams lotsa the time.
I want to try, and he tries, and I try so hard, but my body is all horrible bad :-(
Yeah, i got work on it I guess :-(
Just my T is one of those who has deeply joyful happy sex, so I dunno if she could even begin to understand how I feel....
Sigh.
Whatever.
Glad you doing OK!
I mostly OK too.
See ya!
M
Posted by Dinah on October 4, 2007, at 9:55:47
In reply to Re: Why people goto have sex atall? » JoniS, posted by muffled on October 2, 2007, at 21:50:26
Have you looked into alternatives? Things that wouldn't feel as invasive to you, but that would bring fulfillment to your husband?
My therapist (although not my sex therapist) totally validated that solution. While the sex therapist concentrated on getting me to enjoy sex, my regular therapist gave me permission to not enjoy it. But to find ways to be loving and giving to my husband (I almost typed therapist - freudian, huh?) without doing things that I don't care for.
I kind of categorized all sex acts into four categories. Ones I don't want to do, ones I will do but reluctantly (actual intercourse is in that one), things I'll do willingly but that don't really turn me on, and things that might be sort of fun. Sort of like a four square grid, with the left side being stuff I don't mind doing, the right side being stuff I do mind doing. Then top and bottom is how much. My therapist thought the stuff in the left hand column sounded pretty good and fulfilling in itself, and that stuff in the "I'll do it but not willingly" column could be reserved as special gifts to my husband. Occasional things.
The good part is that my husband actually comes out better. Because we only rarely did the "I'll do it but not willingly" stuff anyway. And the fear of things turning to that kept me away from sexual behavior altogether.
So if you can think of all sorts of sexual activities, and be creative here, perhaps you can find some that aren't so bad, when removed from the threat of other stuff, and that you can willingly offer to your husband.
Just a few thoughts (and read no further if you're squeamish about sex):
Watching erotic materials or reading from erotic materials varying in intensity
Taking a nice soapy shower together - one that ends in the shower with release for your husband perhaps, but without invasion
Watching him pleasure himself
Letting him watch you pleasure yourself
Kissing
Petting
Bringing him to orgasm with your hand
Oral sex (in both directions)
Penetration
I'm trying to put these in no particular order, because what's acceptable to me may not be acceptable to you.It's made a huuuge difference to my husband and me. He never liked hurting me anyway, he gets the opportunity to enjoy himself more often. I don't feel so guilty or ashamed. It's never worse than mildly tedious. And sometimes (but not always) it's even an enjoyable way of sharing intimacy. It can be nice giving pleasure to those you love if you're not scared of being hurt or invaded.
Posted by muffled on October 6, 2007, at 10:03:21
In reply to Re: Why people goto have sex atall? TRIGGER » muffled, posted by Dinah on October 4, 2007, at 9:55:47
Thanks guys.
Hubby try to come close.
Then I get up, but then he say come back.
I get all rolled up in the blanket.
He not liking that.
Says I not like him no more :-(
But I do.
But he wants to get near me and it makes me sick and scared :-(
So I don't wanna.
He say why we get married?
I posed to share.
He say he gonna stray.
:-(
Mebbe he SHOULD if he needs to do it so bad.
WHAT I don't like????
I don't like that part gets hard to hurt.
I don't like that it makes man think all what about it.
I don't like it pushing at me.
I don't like too close and crushing.
I don't like its like its alive and wants to get me.
I don't like it makes me feel bad.
I not sposed to cry.
Makes me want to cry.
:-(
I dunno what to do :-(
I am sad.
M
Posted by Dinah on October 6, 2007, at 10:14:31
In reply to :-( :-( Dunno WHAT to do***SEX trigger***:-(, posted by muffled on October 6, 2007, at 10:03:21
There's hope, Muffled. There really is. I never thought there was hope for me in that area, but there was. I saw a sex therapist who helped some, and my therapist helped more. And I was able to be honest with my husband in a light and nonthreatening way.
I don't know what it is that would work best for you. Was it always like this? Or did it get worse recently? Would it help to do things to see it as part of your husband, who you care about? I'll bet there are exercises to do that? Would it help to get to know it when there's no intercourse in the near future? It might not be scary then. It might even be funny and vulnerable and a bit scared itself. I'll bet there are ways to do that too.
It's not hopeless at all. But a sex therapist might help, if your therapist isn't up to the challenge.
Posted by muffled on October 6, 2007, at 10:51:28
In reply to Re: :-( :-( Dunno WHAT to do***SEX trigger***:- » muffled, posted by Dinah on October 6, 2007, at 10:14:31
Thanks for the input Dinah.
I feel pretty bad bout this.
Hubby been working so hard lately.>I don't know what it is that would work best for you. Was it always like this? Or did it get worse recently? Would it help to do things to see it as part of your husband, who you care about? I'll bet there are exercises to do that? Would it help to get to know it when there's no intercourse in the near future? It might not be scary then. It might even be funny and vulnerable and a bit scared itself. I'll bet there are ways to do that too.
I think maybe in retrospect its always been somwhat of a thing.
I USED to be able to dissociate, but now for some reason I can't. I dunno why?
It definately got owrse with the advent of kids.
Esp kids in bed w/us.
And sometimes there's a kid in bed and DH gets randy and even tho kid is beside me and not near him, this disturbs me.
I don't want sex anywhere near my kids.
But its getting worse, feeding upon its own fears i suppose. I need to deal w/this.
I dunno if i can though.
I dunno if t can help me.
Dunno if she can even come close to the terror.
For her sex is this wonderful thing.
It seems like we at opposite ends of the spectrum.
I feel like I gonna contaminate her wonderful view of sex with my grossness.
Its just all complicated and I just wish it would all go away.
Thanks Dinah.
M
Posted by rskontos on October 6, 2007, at 11:00:30
In reply to Re: :-( :-( Dunno WHAT to do***SEX trigger***:- » Dinah, posted by muffled on October 6, 2007, at 10:51:28
Muffled, I don't think you will tainted her view. And maybe, Just my two cents, that someone who thinks it is wonderful can help you better than someone that thinks it is crap. You know the saying misery likes company. If she is willing to help you go slowly and you can try to be willing. I know because I feel the same way as you do. My husband and I have the same issues. I think as we work through the therapy part dissociation will fail us, because as we deal with our feelings it is the part that allowed us to keep them at bay, you can't have both. But you can probably find a middle grown. I don't think the kids need to be in the same bed or area though. randy DH needs to realize they need to be in their own place and you need romance and to be wooed and to feel safe and a part of it. And that starts before you both see the bed. Or the bedroom. So it is intimacy we crave but don't know how to accept. So it has to go slowly. I can't sometimes even stand to have someone put their arms around me muchless the rest so the rest must be slow and I have to know my H wants to take the time I need. Or forget about it.....Maybe your T can help you guys work on this, a middle ground for both of you with the kids safely in their room innocents as they need to stay for as long as possible. Hang in girl.......it will get better I think...
Posted by Dinah on October 6, 2007, at 11:36:57
In reply to Re: :-( :-( Dunno WHAT to do***SEX trigger***:- » Dinah, posted by muffled on October 6, 2007, at 10:51:28
You won't contaminate her. I'm sure she understands that not everyone finds sex pleasurable. And that many people have reason to find it scary. And even if she hasn't been a therapist long enough to figure that out, her view of sex is hers, and won't at all be contaminated by yours. Maybe you should talk about how her telling you how wonderful sex is isn't particularly helpful.
The idea of having to enjoy it was an awful one to me. I liked it much better when my therapist gave me permission not to enjoy it. The sex therapist concentrating on ways to help me enjoy it was much less helpful.
I don't blame you, re. the kids. I can't imagine my husband feeling free to be sexual in front of our son, and I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable with it myself. Do they always sleep with you? How old are they?
Is it possible that as you learn to stay more grounded in other areas of your life, it becomes harder to go away during sex? That *is* a dilemma, because going away does make it easier, at least for me. :(
Does it help if you have more control? I really don't like spontaneous intimacy. I like to make dates with my husband. The more control I have the better. The more I'm able to prepare, the better. And the less I'm worried about being surprised, the better.
I love my husband, and want to be able to share this part of life with him. But he loves me, and wants me to be able to do it in a way that is not unpleasant to me.
Posted by rskontos on October 6, 2007, at 12:07:56
In reply to Re: :-( :-( Dunno WHAT to do***SEX trigger***:- » muffled, posted by Dinah on October 6, 2007, at 11:36:57
Man Dinah, you said what I was trying to say much better and much clearer. If your T is onlly saying how great it is without giving you great advice like Dinah, you need to tell her are getting D to be your sex therapist from now on because she isn't really all that good. If she can give concrete advice then yeah.....I think I need to shut up now.
But I really feel strongly about the kids. They need to be away in their own little beds having nice little dreams about toys and fun stuff. Most women would be uptight in that situation too.
I reallly like the part about loving in a way that is pleasant...nice job dinah. muffled I hope this helps and you don't feel so down.I will be back I am off to T now.
Posted by JoniS on October 6, 2007, at 16:14:22
In reply to :-( :-( Dunno WHAT to do***SEX trigger***:-(, posted by muffled on October 6, 2007, at 10:03:21
Cmon Muffled. You can work on this. I have faith in you. I think you should your T like someone else said that her going on about how such she loves it is not at all helpful to you. I hope you get some good help and that you get great improvement in that area!
(((((Muffled)))))
Joni
Posted by muffled on October 6, 2007, at 16:18:32
In reply to Re: :-( :-( Dunno WHAT to do***SEX trigger***:- » Dinah, posted by muffled on October 6, 2007, at 10:51:28
Thanks for replies, I only got a minute but just wanted to clarify re kids.
My DH always wants to get friendly in the morning. In the morning my daughter wakes up and she skinny so she's gets cold, so she gets warm in my bed, then usu goes to watch TV w/her bro.
But hubby is snuggling B4, and then STILL try to snuggle when kid is on other side. Kid knows nothing I expect. But he pushing on backside of me and I DON'T LIKE IT at best, and ESPECIALLY when kid there. He tells her to go watch TV, and when she gets up, I jump up too and go.
Sometimes hubby wants me to come back :-(
Sigh.
I hate this.
I feel like the biggest idiot ever. And NO I duuno why but I am NOT blanking out well. Ikid don't go away. It feels SO bad. Everything is all screwed up :-(
I just don't understand. My DH is a good and nice man.
He sure got ripped off.
M
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on October 6, 2007, at 16:24:15
In reply to Re: :-( :-( Dunno WHAT to do***SEX trigger***:-, posted by muffled on October 6, 2007, at 16:18:32
The scenario you describe would bother me a lot too. you find yourself trying to protect the innocents yet feel guilty about not satisfying H's urges.
Honestly, I can't see how this is supposed to make you feel good at all.
Can you work with a T to reset H's sexy clock? I have had to do this with my H. I go to bed about 2 hours before him, and he feels deprived (hmmm I *wonder* why...)
time to enlist the help of a sexT, me thinks. your marriage deserves it. you are worth the trouble.
-Ll
Posted by muffled on October 6, 2007, at 16:25:51
In reply to Re: :-( :-( Dunno WHAT to do***SEX trigger***:-( » muffled, posted by JoniS on October 6, 2007, at 16:14:22
LOL My T don't go on and on bout 'it'!!!!
Actually we weren't even talking bout sex, we was talking tears. And she said there's diff tears, like being sad, but there's tears of laughing, there's tears of joy. THEN she said as how when she intimate w/her DH she sometimes has tears, but its NOT sad, its happy, cuz she is happy to be with DH.
I think mebbe we talked as how its a intimate thing, like a special thing btwn people, and I told her to me its not. Its just a physical get your rocks off thing.
Thats bout all we've ever said bout it all.
But I can tell, or mebbe its just me, or mebbe its her AND me, but somehow I can't talk bourt that sex stuff, in relation to myself, IRL. I can talk all day bout it as long as its not pertaining to me.
Maybe I can talk from scientist mode...
I don't honestly see how I can get past this.
I dunno, but mebbe it somehows goto do w.that kid in me that I don't like. But I DON'T GO THERE. So WTF I gonna do?
Gonna go get me a damn mickeys what I gonna do.
M
Posted by Dinah on October 6, 2007, at 17:24:02
In reply to Re: :-( :-( Dunno WHAT to do***SEX trigger***:-(, posted by muffled on October 6, 2007, at 16:25:51
ICK.
I think that would fall firmly into the too much info category. I absolutely do not want to know what my therapist does when he's being intimate with his wife, no matter how joyful it feels.
Thank God he knows he's my therapist/mommy, and knows that mommies aren't supposed to talk about such things with their therapee/little girls.
Mind you, he never would do that because he's a Ken doll. So I don't need to worry about him saying anything because he just DOESN'T.
But still. ICK.
I think you need to talk to your husband a bit. Morning would not be at all ok with me no matter who was in bed with me. I can barely sit up without feeling queasy in the morning. Anyone who tried to touch me would be in danger of losing body parts.
This would fall into the category of allowing yourself to have a bit more control about the when and how of it.
Believe me, Muffled. The mechanics really do make a difference. It sounds like stupid little things that won't fix the enormity of what's going on, but it's not. Part of the enormity of what's going on has to do with feeling like you're being pressed into something you're not willing to do. Little changes can make a BIIIIG difference.
It doesn't need to be framed in negative terms with your husband. It can be framed in positive terms. "Sweetie, I like to be giving with you, but I really can't feel comfortable in the morning with a little one in bed (or waiting outside the door wanting Mom). Can we arrange to have a date on Thursday night, after the kids go to bed?"
It sounds as if a conversation with your therapist might be a good idea as well. If you've only talked about it in context of joyful crying. (Jeesh. Joyful crying? I can't imagine. Is this the same range of activities we're discussing?)
Posted by muffled on October 6, 2007, at 22:36:09
In reply to Re: :-( :-( Dunno WHAT to do***SEX trigger***:- » muffled, posted by Dinah on October 6, 2007, at 17:24:02
> I think that would fall firmly into the too much info category. I absolutely do not want to know what my therapist does when he's being intimate with his wife, no matter how joyful it feels.
:-0 :-) LOL!!! I think it kinda one of those situatios where you kinda had to BE there!!!!LOL. It wasn't bad at the time. It just was part of the conversation!
> Thank God he knows he's my therapist/mommy, and knows that mommies aren't supposed to talk about such things with their therapee/little girls.:-)
> Mind you, he never would do that because he's a Ken doll. So I don't need to worry about him saying anything because he just DOESN'T.
>
> But still. ICK.* :-) :-0 :-) ;-) Thanks for the smile Dinah!!!!! I needed that!
> I think you need to talk to your husband a bit. Morning would not be at all ok with me no matter who was in bed with me. I can barely sit up without feeling queasy in the morning. Anyone who tried to touch me would be in danger of losing body parts.**ROFL!!!! Ya he is SOOOOO a morning man, and it SOOOOO don't work w/kids.
> This would fall into the category of allowing yourself to have a bit more control about the when and how of it.**ya....but he tired at night, he does alot of hard physical labour, and usu I asleep when he come home.
> Believe me, Muffled. The mechanics really do make a difference. It sounds like stupid little things that won't fix the enormity of what's going on, but it's not. Part of the enormity of what's going on has to do with feeling like you're being pressed into something you're not willing to do. Little changes can make a BIIIIG difference.**I am GLAD to hear that. I think you may be right, I just goto try and remember that and not do the black and white thing, and not to just look at the whole awful pic and get overwhelmed.
> It doesn't need to be framed in negative terms with your husband. It can be framed in positive terms. "Sweetie, I like to be giving with you, but I really can't feel comfortable in the morning with a little one in bed (or waiting outside the door wanting Mom). Can we arrange to have a date on Thursday night, after the kids go to bed?"**sigh....'date' eh.....sigh, mebbe NO date....mebbe celibacy?!....
Guess not.
> It sounds as if a conversation with your therapist might be a good idea as well. If you've only talked about it in context of joyful crying. (Jeesh. Joyful crying? I can't imagine. Is this the same range of activities we're discussing?)**ROFL ITIPMP!!!!!!!! I have read this 3 times and it just slays me everytime!!!!!
Thanks for injecting humour into this dinah, it helps.
I will talk to T, see if we can figger it....
Damn.
T SUCKS.
Take good care Dinah and thanks for all the wisdom.
M
Posted by muffled on October 6, 2007, at 22:37:50
In reply to Re: :-( :-( Dunno WHAT to do***SEX trigger***:- » muffled, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on October 6, 2007, at 16:24:15
Posted by Dinah on October 6, 2007, at 22:51:24
In reply to Re: :-( :-( Dunno WHAT to do***SEX trigger***:-, posted by rskontos on October 6, 2007, at 12:07:56
:) Thanks.
I just have had troubles in this area all my life and only recently managed to make something out of it.
Posted by Dinah on October 6, 2007, at 22:53:27
In reply to Re: :-( :-( Dunno WHAT to do***SEX trigger***:- » Dinah, posted by muffled on October 6, 2007, at 22:36:09
I'm glad I made you smile. :)
That's the best way to approach this stuff, I find.
Posted by muffled on October 7, 2007, at 10:31:05
In reply to Re: :-( :-( Dunno WHAT to do***SEX trigger***:- » muffled, posted by Dinah on October 6, 2007, at 22:53:27
SO,
I told DH in the PM that someone on the net says snuggly in AM NOT good w/kids. Took me nerve just to say that...cuz of course, then he say Ohhhh so PM OK and sidles over! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!! But I was prepared, 4 xanax already down the hatch 20 mins earlier. HA!
So. Well, didn't actually DO it, but more closer.
It was still so hard. I kept YELLING at the kid inside to GO. I kept saying, its OK. I had a portable radio by my head that I clung to. I kept my back to him. I told him not to talk so much(sorry, he's a wonderful man , but Lord almighty sometimes he says THE dumbest things....).
Funnily enuf, there was a part that tried to be there and it was LAUGHING and thot this all quite a lark. I tried SO hard to encourage that part, but it just kinda came and went. There just was too much other crap going on in my head.
I think I came and went dissociativelywise too, but couldn't make it stick.
So mebbe hubby don't feel like such a reject....
It was still so hard, but if i can find out who the hell was laughing, then thats proly the key... or then again.....mebbe someone was just real stoned out on the xanax....just hope none of my ikids was around, that bugs me...
Its not so easy.
LOL.
Oh well.
Thanks for all support.
It gave me the courage to go this far, and I think its important, cuz while it sucked, I COULD accept some closerness, and proly w/time it can be more tolerable.
Thanks.
M
Posted by Dinah on October 7, 2007, at 12:07:28
In reply to Latest update...., posted by muffled on October 7, 2007, at 10:31:05
Oh Muffled, it shouldn't have to be that way. :(
Please talk to your therapist? Maybe you can figure something out.
I've never been a big believer that if you force yourself to do something really awful, and you feel awful while you do it, that it gets better because you get used to it.
There *has* to be a way for it to be easier for you. I hope you can find it with your therapist's help.
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