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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on June 19, 2007, at 8:18:21
I don't want my therapist to freak out when I tell him things. But lately he's been so far from freaking out that it makes him seem like he's not at all concerned.
It may not be very nice of me, but that fills me with the desire to make him pay attention, and to act out to achieve that goal.
I haven't done it, and I suppose I won't.
I'm too hard to please, I think. :(
Posted by twinleaf on June 19, 2007, at 8:55:34
In reply to How do you balance it?, posted by Dinah on June 19, 2007, at 8:18:21
No, you're not too hard to please- you are just very aware when you are not getting what you need. You (and me, and everyone) needs a therapist who responds with attentiveness and feeling- whether it's put into words or not. I hope you'll feel that it's normal and healthy to have this need, and will be able to tell him. Getting into the acting-out stuff isn't so great.
Posted by wishingstar on June 19, 2007, at 9:02:22
In reply to Re: How do you balance it? » Dinah, posted by twinleaf on June 19, 2007, at 8:55:34
Oh Dinah, I know what you mean!!
I've felt this way many times.. with my current T and past T. My current T refers to it as "creating a crisis" and I guess that's what it really is. Do something extreme to get her attention. I recently actually told her that I was feeling like hurting myself to get her attention. Nothing really improved and shes still missing the boat entirely.
I think, at least for me, the reason really is pretty simple. I have a huge need for validation and "feeling heard" over everything else, and it's easy for Ts to slip into problem solving mode where theyre totally focused on insight, connections, behavioral changes, etc. For me, I start feeling like theyre missing the point. I tend to make the behavioral changes on my own when I feel sufficiently heard and supported. Validation really is so important, especially given the homes many of us grew up in where our every feeling was ignored or wrong or punished. I need to be constantly reminded that she hears me, and gets it because then I know shes accepting my feelings as well.. not just missing them. Who knows.
Posted by muffled on June 19, 2007, at 15:08:05
In reply to How do you balance it?, posted by Dinah on June 19, 2007, at 8:18:21
awwwww, a *little* acting outs OK? So longs its kinda in jest?
Like dress funny, or do crazy hairdo, or boldly tell him to F himself, or SOMEthing, just to liven things up? Mebbe get connected more, feel heard?
I dunno, but the times I used to get kinda wacked out, then lash out, well, I felt bad, but it also felt SO good when T didn't dump me. Made me feel more secure.
God I am so nuts.
Anyhow, those are my thots.
Hope things can improve w/you guys.
Maybe a break would be good?
:-(
Just seems its been a struggle for awhile twixt you two.
:-(
Take special care, you a good person Dinah.
Muffled
Posted by Dinah on June 19, 2007, at 17:17:10
In reply to Re: How do you balance it? » Dinah, posted by muffled on June 19, 2007, at 15:08:05
And I'm glad I got to consider it ahead of time.
He got to tell me that he felt frustrated (and maybe a bit angry because of the frustration) and felt like nothing he said made a difference when I was in a spiral downward.
And I got to tell him what he did at those times that actually was helpful as opposed to what isn't particularly (and I'll spare you a description of what wasn't). I asked him if he wanted me to, and he said yes. Which might serve two purposes, in both getting more helpful responses for me, and in letting him know that he really can help so he won't feel as frustrated.
I guess it gets tiresome for him to have the same thing come up over and over again. I know it gets tiresome for me. And maybe he feels like he shouldn't have to say the same things over and over again - that I should remember them. But the fact is that they are helpful to hear again and again when I need them. In his firmest and most reassuring voice, with a bit of concern and caring laced in if he can manage it.
It turned out all right in the end today, and he'd wanted to see me again tomorrow but he hasn't returned my call to schedule so maybe he changed his mind. It's ok. I'm feeling a bit better. My ENT told me I really was sick and gave me a shot and some pills, so I short term feel sicker because I know I should, but looking ahead feel a bit better because I know I won't always feel this way.
Posted by DAisym on June 20, 2007, at 0:34:19
In reply to It came up of course, posted by Dinah on June 19, 2007, at 17:17:10
I'm glad you talked it out.
A while back I kept telling my therapist that I felt the need to make him angry...I wanted him to pay attention! But I couldn't figure out why or really, even to what. At the worst of it, I ditched him. Didn't go and didn't call. But he reacted with concern and worry, instead of anger.
In the end, after much discussion, we kind of decided that I was just acting out a lot of old stuff -- wanting someone to see how much pain I was in and how angry and scared I was.
I can imagine with all the pressure on you lately that you want your therapist to notice and help calm things, even things out of his control. It sounds like the discussion you had was a really important one.
How worried should he be right now? Are you doing OK?
Posted by Dinah on June 20, 2007, at 7:52:45
In reply to Re: It came up of course » Dinah, posted by DAisym on June 20, 2007, at 0:34:19
I'm not doing ok. The sleep doctor said that there was nothing wrong with me. That I just probably needed an extra hour or so more than other people, and I should change my schedule accordingly.
Since I sleep many many hours, I can't see how that will work. So that means this is as good as it gets. He told me to keep drinking Red Bull and eating caffeine pills if it helps. My insurance company is giving my pdoc trouble over my provigil prescription. Not only is it almost a month late in coming to me, but I doubt he'll want the hassle anymore so I'll have to ask my sleep doctor, and he doesn't particularly like Provigil so I guess I'll have to increase the caffeine.
I'm going to have to quit work. And since without work, I have to at least cut down on therapy, I'll have to quit everything else that upsets me, so that I can get by.
And I've gotten a taste of adolescent angst lately, and realize I'm not going to make it through my son's adolescence. I doubt he'll be rebellious, but that extreme unhappiness and feeling misunderstood is just not something I can bear from my reason for staying alive and keeping up the fight. I know that's not fair to him, but I feel like I've failed. He's as miserable as I was, so I must be as awful a mom as my mother was.
I can't do it. I really just can't.
Posted by Honore on June 20, 2007, at 8:59:43
In reply to Re: It came up of course » DAisym, posted by Dinah on June 20, 2007, at 7:52:45
Dinah you're mostly disappointed and angry about the sleep doctor's inability to help. It Is disappointing-- but it doesn't have to set you into a downward spiral that affects everything.Just hang in their with your pdoc and his reluctance to give you provigil. He'll accommodate-- you won't be stuck with Red Bull and No Doz.
These pressures can be handled. There are ways to negotiate the job situation in accord with your ability to be available-- even if you need a few hours more sleep. You can work on that in therapy-- among other things-- or as a side-effect of certain things-- and remold your schedule so it fits who you are.
And your son is NOT as unhappy as you were as a teenager. I do'nt believe that for a minute-- if only because he has you for a mother, and not your mother. Just because he has some moments of rebellion, misery, accusations againt you-- all that-- none of that us at all unusual for teenagers. I bet that with him it will be remarkably limited-- and interwoven with lots of good times for the two of you.
You are a great mother-- and professional person-- and wife-- and deputy of an unruly bunch of babblers. One of two small miracles and you'll qualify for sainthood-- (you haven't raised anyone from the dead, have you? cause we need to find a few little things like that to put your name up).
This is a temporary sense of disappointment- however real it is-- but you can adapt to whatever you need to-- and construct a schedule and life that are really good. So try not to start seeing everything as all ruined-- especially your sense of yourself as a wife and mother-- and your son. He's going to be fine.
And don't fall into the worst recrimination of all, that you're a mother like your mother. You're indulging a momentary sense of self-blame and hatred- but don't let it go there. Cause if you do, I may start to think that I"m as bad as my mother-- and others may start to think that they also are as bad as their mothers-- and a whole hysterical wave of despair may spread through this place like wildfire. Cause if you, Dinah, are-- then we are ever more prone to be.
Not to put pressure on you to save us-- but you know you wouldn't put up with my suddenly seeing myself as like a cold faux "normal" person who blames any coolness between us on me, and who has harsh cold rages, and a strong propensity to be vindictive and envious-- and no interest in children.
You are a very good caring person. You can too get through this-- it's a temporary setback-- but this situation with your job will get rectified-- over time--- and you'll regain your sense of yourself, I hope. Very soon.
Honore
Posted by sunnydays on June 20, 2007, at 10:12:17
In reply to Re: It came up of course » DAisym, posted by Dinah on June 20, 2007, at 7:52:45
You know, I was thinking something yesterday. I seriously was thinking, "I wish I had a mother like Dinah. It always seems like she cares so much about her son and always wants the best for him." You have done so well with him, that I wouldn't think that he's going to have a nasty adolescence at all. It's normal for anyone to have periods where they get scared or miserable or rebellious, and teens do have a lot of stress on them. But it's been scientifically studied many times, and adolescence is generally not a time of 'storm and stress'. So I don't think you have anything to worry about there.
Take care of yourself as best you can Dinah.
sunnydays
Posted by DAisym on June 20, 2007, at 10:30:18
In reply to Re: It came up of course » DAisym, posted by Dinah on June 20, 2007, at 7:52:45
It is so hard to see solutions when the world feels like it crashed and landed on you.
I believe there must be more than one MD around -- go get another opinion. Lots of things can make you sleepy, including stress! (which you've been under for a long, long time.) Just like with blood sugars, sometimes doing the opposite thing helps - so perhaps try sleeping an hour less? And exercise. Sorry - it is true. One thought I had was about getting a cardiac workup.
After all this time, why don't you take a leave of absence? That way you aren't really quitting, you are taking a break. See how it goes...I would bet dollars to donuts right now you could get a disability leave - so you could still afford therapy. Think about it...
And as far as your son goes, the bad news is that if you've done your job as a good mom, they will go through this stuff in order to separate from you. And of course he is unhappy, he has to leave the secure place under your wing and venture into the exciting, but scary world. He is torn, and probably anxious. Anger is the outward expression of all of this. And everything is huge and the end of the world. This is where you keep telling yourself that without a safe base, he wouldn't be able to push and pull on you. He knows that you love him and will be there for him, so he can venture out and then come back. Teens are just 2-year olds with bigger vocabularies.
As I write all of this, I totally get the "I give up" feelings. Too much, for too long. And it feels never ending, no matter what everyone says. You are tired, bone-tired...and the siren call of suicide offers relief from the constant managing of your life. I know this place really well. But hang on, it does pass. Try to think about your son having to navigate this phase without you - could your husband handle an angry teen who is now at risk of suicide himself? I think that is what has stopped me when things are darkest. Teens who lose their parents this way are at much higher risk themselves. And I don't want that for my guys -- and I know you don't either.
It would be better to quit than die. Please try to remember than.
((((Dinah))))
Posted by Honore on June 20, 2007, at 11:05:56
In reply to Re: It came up of course - trigger » Dinah, posted by DAisym on June 20, 2007, at 10:30:18
Plus, you can quit the job. And sleep, and be with your family and see your T once a week.
Good grief-- what's this about dying? You'll miss all our ups and downs--- plus that of your dear son and husband. Come on-- you don't seriously consider that, do you, Dinah? You? I konw the bone tiredness that makes you want to scream, or tear things, is awful-- I feel it myself many many times. But that's not a reason to die-- it's a reason to get more sleep, and give yourself a break.
Plus there are better sleep doctors in NY or CA, or somewhere-- and there's got to be someone who has some answers. Before you consider anything rash-- please check out other doctors-- just because you saw two doesn't mean you've exhausted the human reservoir of knowledge about sleep.
Honore
Posted by Dinah on June 20, 2007, at 12:35:13
In reply to Re: It came up of course - trigger, posted by Honore on June 20, 2007, at 11:05:56
My insurance company refuses to pay for it.
I'm going to have to quit of course. I'm barely making it as it is.
And when I quit, I'll lose my therapist.
I'll ask my pdoc for something to numb me out to see if I can make it through.
It's really piling on and it's too much.
Posted by jammerlich on June 20, 2007, at 12:37:55
In reply to Now they've taken away my Provigil, posted by Dinah on June 20, 2007, at 12:35:13
Dinah, I'm so sorry. Insurance companies really suck sometimes. It just isn't fair.
I hope your pdoc comes through with something wonderful that will help just as well or maybe even better.
(((Dinah)))
Posted by muffled on June 20, 2007, at 13:09:29
In reply to Now they've taken away my Provigil, posted by Dinah on June 20, 2007, at 12:35:13
((((((((((((((((((((Dinah)))))))))))))))))))))))))
You are a constant one way or another in your sons life.
I am sure your plenty better than many Moms.
I am so sorry everything seems to be crumbling right now for you :-(
Would your T not do a sliding scale for you after all these years???
Could you do some non-stressful p/t work to bring in a few dollars and get you out of the house now and again?
Sigh, I am dreading adolescence.......I dunno WHAT I am going to do either. At my sons school, they stress that its transitional, and they come out human on the other side. So I don't think your son has a bad mother, he is just an adolescent, a mutant being by definition. Its just they way they are apparently.
Hope you can stop and allow yourself to smell a rose now and again. Even if its just looking at a daisy, or feeling satisfaction at the shiny dishes you just washed....
Try and give your son a hug and tell him you love him....(and in my case....) and laugh when he shoves you away and says disgustedly MOoooooooooooooooM!!! And know that somewhere, that it DID sink in....
You take care Dinah, you really are a special person with many strengths, I hope YOU can hear that...
Muffled
Posted by Honore on June 20, 2007, at 17:20:55
In reply to Now they've taken away my Provigil, posted by Dinah on June 20, 2007, at 12:35:13
Insurance Cos. are really awful. That is so so unfair and cruel.
There's got to be something you can use instead. Really-- maybe could you order it from Canada-- it;s much much less expensive there-- they also have a generic form, which I think is reasonably good- please see if you can afford that-- or if it's possible to figure out how to get it.
Try not to assume the worst-- maybe there's something else that would work for you- even if you don't think so. Maybe this would be a time to experiment again even with things that didn't work so well in the past. Or maybe using abilify-- or another AP that's more energizing- like Geodon. There definitely has to be something that would make this workable.
They refuse to give it even for narcolepsy? What do they say you can use? Maybe you can appeal the decision-- sometimes, if a physician calls they rethink denials.
(((Dinah)))
Honore
Posted by Dinah on June 20, 2007, at 19:45:32
In reply to Re: Now they've taken away my Provigil, posted by Honore on June 20, 2007, at 17:20:55
My sleep doctor agreed to try, despite what his nurse said (which is twice now a doctor has been nicer than his nurse said he would be, which is good to try to remember).
My therapist thought I would find it therapeutic to get some of the anger I was directing at myself out at the insurance company. But when I said no, he offered to do it himself, which was also nice although I wouldn't ask him to.
He wants to see me again tomorrow although I've done nothing but sleep since I got home from today. That'll make it four times again this week, and I'll have to remember to remind him he doesn't like me much more than three hours a week.
I've read your thoughtful replies and have taken them in and appreciate them. I just need to wake up a bit. Or maybe I need to sleep a bit more.
I told my therapist yesterday that if I could just get a short break on bad things raining down on me, I could probably pull myself together. Or maybe if I weren't sick all this wouldn't bother me so much. But it's my standard to go spiraling down when the stuff coming in exceeds my abilities to cope. It's so hard when I feel bad to remember those things, or to remember not feeling bad.
I've made an appt with my pdoc for tomorrow. My therapist would like me to give AD's another try (when I asked). He said I could always quit if they didn't suit. Apparently he doesn't get horrible withdrawals from even the shortest AD use. Lucky man. I haven't decided yet.
Posted by MidnightBlue on June 20, 2007, at 23:38:50
In reply to Re: It came up of course » DAisym, posted by Dinah on June 20, 2007, at 7:52:45
Dinah,
You will make it through. Teen years (or almost teen years) are tough. You just have to keep in your memory that cute, sweet, thoughtful little boy. He will come back to you in a few years with a rough beard and long lanky limbs! And probably a girlfriend! LOL
Midnightblue
Posted by MidnightBlue on June 20, 2007, at 23:43:02
In reply to Now they've taken away my Provigil, posted by Dinah on June 20, 2007, at 12:35:13
Dinah,
I am so so sorry. I understand the "too much" feeling. So you can't afford the med without insurance? And as I understand it, without the med you can't work. And without work no T.
It is like a stack of cards....one gentle breeze and you feel like they will all fall down.
Hang in there!
Hugs,
MB
Posted by Dinah on June 21, 2007, at 18:19:04
In reply to Re: Now they've taken away my Provigil » Dinah, posted by MidnightBlue on June 20, 2007, at 23:43:02
Hi Midnight.
It would appear the insurance company accepted the prescription written by my sleep doctor. I also purchased a cpap machine today, which I had to pay cash for. My husband will be thrilled at that cost. :( Those things are expensive.
I'm doing what I can.
The last few days seem like a bad dream, which is good because it means I'm likely past the worst of it. Now I've got to sort through the mess on my desk and find out what I urgently need to do and try to stay awake to do it.
Posted by scratchpad on June 26, 2007, at 9:41:08
In reply to Re: Now they've taken away my Provigil » MidnightBlue, posted by Dinah on June 21, 2007, at 18:19:04
>
> I also purchased a cpap machine today, which I had to pay cash for. My husband will be thrilled at that cost. :( Those things are expensive.
>What is it like?
Scratchpad
Posted by Dinah on June 26, 2007, at 16:52:33
In reply to Have you worn it yet? » Dinah, posted by scratchpad on June 26, 2007, at 9:41:08
I had rented one for a month, and the results from the printout did not really show that I "deserved" one paid by insurance.
But even though I now know it's likely a placebo effect, I still feel more refreshed after spending a couple of nights on it.
I have the adjustable sort, even now I quit renting, which is likely why it was so expensive. It's not terribly comfortable and it takes a while to get to sleep. And sometimes it seems to go insane and blows so hard that it pushes my lips in like I was standing in front of an enormous fan. But again, anything that makes me less dependent on Provigil, caffeine, and naps has to be a good thing.
Posted by scratchpad on June 26, 2007, at 19:09:32
In reply to Re: Have you worn it yet? » scratchpad, posted by Dinah on June 26, 2007, at 16:52:33
Wow, it's a great effort to try something else and wear the CPAP machine. Good for you!
Last night I tried "getting away" with trying to sleep no xanax, and just ambien; after 45 minutes, I gave up (I swear, this feels like giving up!) and took .5mg xanax and another 10mg ambien.
Amazingly enough, I woke up this morning, and none of my doctors wanted to hear about it.
I do despair.
:-(Good luck with the cpap machine - if nothing else, you'll get a night of rest without medication!
best regards,
sp
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