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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by sunnydays on April 17, 2007, at 22:07:37
In reply to help, posted by wishingstar on April 17, 2007, at 17:28:25
What do you mean by leaving? It's ok not to post if it doesn't feel ok, but I worry about you. I've been having a rough time too, so I haven't been posting much, but I was actually thinking the other day that I wondered how you were doing.
Please stay safe. People here care about you. It's not hopeless. I know it feels that way, but there is hope. It might take a long, long time for a change, but a change will come.
((((((wishingstar))))))))
Hang in there. Please.
Take care,
sunnydays
Posted by Honore on April 17, 2007, at 22:23:10
In reply to help, posted by wishingstar on April 17, 2007, at 17:28:25
Hi, WS. I was wondering what form your regrets take when you post. Is it self-criticism-- you don't like yourself, or the way you sound-- or is it you feel that you don't get responses that help, or are respectful of your feelings?
In a way, when you say no one knows what to say, I think maybe you narrow the frame too much. Nothing that I or anyone-- Ginny or your closest friend-- says today, or tomorrow, or next week, will, itself help. It's what's said and felt together over time. Sometimes, it takes a long time to be able to sew together the separate moments, or hours-- and that can be the work of months or years.
I know it must be terribly hard to stand the waiting, without any certainty that that time when things begin to seem continuous or enough will come-- but if you just stick it out, and try, despite your doubts and fears, to give it whatever bit of trust you can-- it really will.
I wish I or Ginny could say the right thing, that would make it all start to come together on the feeling level, and would make the center hold-- now-- but maybe over time, she can. If you are seeing her, still? Not in one individual session, and not because she can understand-- but because the two of you, over time, can creete a bond, and sense of connection that can combat the hopelessness and emptiness that you struggle with now.,
I hope you are seeing her-- or will give someone that time to start making more meaning together with you.
I really am sorry it's so very hard now.
Honore
Posted by Happyflower on April 17, 2007, at 23:06:36
In reply to Re: help » wishingstar, posted by Honore on April 17, 2007, at 22:23:10
I hope you are okay. Yours posts really worry me.
Posted by wishingstar on April 18, 2007, at 0:18:45
In reply to Re: help » wishingstar, posted by Honore on April 17, 2007, at 22:23:10
I went to the hospital. I wasnt admitted. So here I am, back at home a few hours later. Thats what I meant by leaving. Sorry if it scared anyone.
I guess I regret posting because I dont feel like I'm part of the "in group" here. I know everyone says theres no "in group", but it sure as heck feels like it. I dont expect anyone to know what to say to magically fix it (here or Ginny or anywhere else)... I guess I just feel like often people dont know what to say so they dont say anything at all.. and all I need is to know I'm not alone and that I'm being heard. Whiny whiny whiny. I know. But thank you everyone for responding tonight. I know I cant even really ask for that because I'm never supportive of anyone else anymore either... I just cant. Sorry.
Yes honore, I am still seeing Ginny, once a week now. We're not really getting anywhere though. The connection is totally gone and we talk about surface stuff most of the time. I've expressed my concern over that but neither of us seems to know how to fix it now. Therapy isnt something I particularly look forward to like I used to, when it was a place where I could go and get it all out and feel heard. It's just another thing on my to-do list now.
I know it isnt all going to get fixed overnight. If it could just stop getting worse, I could even handle that... but it's constantly something new now. One thing after another. I just cant take one more thing.
Sorry I'm worrying people. Thats something I never wanted to do....
Posted by one woman cine on April 18, 2007, at 8:22:07
In reply to im back, posted by wishingstar on April 18, 2007, at 0:18:45
WS, you mentioned awhile ago residential treatment. Maybe that would be an option now, considering you are having trouble functioning day to day. Especially since you an acute crisis unit already. It seems like it might really be helpful to you to try it at this time. What do you have to lose?
Posted by gazo on April 18, 2007, at 9:15:47
In reply to im back, posted by wishingstar on April 18, 2007, at 0:18:45
people worry because they care...not because you did anything wrong. i will admit i have not responded to many of your posts because i don't always know what to say. It's not because you are so out there, but i tend to be very direct sometimes, and i worry that would just make you feel worse. i would never want to make you feel worse. i don't know your history and you have seemed to be having some big issues with your T, etc.
i don't know anything about in groups or not... dang, that would suck. But i do know that it upsets me if you feel you're not "in." No one should feel they aren't accepted.
i have admired your ability to be working, doing what you do, in the face of the struggles you talk about here. You're stronger than you think.
Posted by wishingstar on April 18, 2007, at 9:21:21
In reply to Re: im back » wishingstar, posted by one woman cine on April 18, 2007, at 8:22:07
Yeah...
But the question of "what do I have to lose" is a big one. I'd say... the tiny little bit of self-worth I think I'm still holding on to. My sense of who I am and what I can do. It'd be totally gone.
Some other practical things too.. my job/income, my apartment..
I dont know.
Posted by wishingstar on April 18, 2007, at 9:25:50
In reply to Re: im back » wishingstar, posted by gazo on April 18, 2007, at 9:15:47
Thanks gazo. I know there isnt much to say... I dount anything you'd say would make me feel worse but I do understand what you're saying.
I'm not sure if I posted here about this or not but I'm thinking about quitting my job. My old T tells me I'm worthless at it, and I'm sure she's right. I was lying to myself thinking otherwise. I have a client for a 3.5-hour session today and I really need to go to it.... I've been planning to talk to her about self-soothing and distress management type skills today. HAHA. Irony, huh? I have to go. I have to. Dont be surprised if I dont. I cancelled another thing with another kid on Monday already. See? Worthless. Just like Laurie said.
Posted by one woman cine on April 18, 2007, at 9:35:45
In reply to Re: im back » one woman cine, posted by wishingstar on April 18, 2007, at 9:21:21
> But the question of "what do I have to lose" is a big one. I'd say... the tiny little bit of self-worth I think I'm still holding on to. My sense of who I am and what I can do. It'd be totally gone.Everything will there when you get back.
> Some other practical things too.. my job/income, my apartment..
>
> I dont know.Your job and all that will be there too. On the other hand, if things keep getting worse for you, you could actaully lose everything.
Going to residential would be a big step, (& very brave of you) but it would be very worth it for you.
Posted by one woman cine on April 18, 2007, at 9:42:48
In reply to Re: im back » one woman cine, posted by wishingstar on April 18, 2007, at 9:21:21
The way you explained it, Laurie didn't say you were worthless, she said you were unable to perform your job to your fullest - I forget the exact statement.
Think about how you felt when T's have issues and how it affects the patient/client. Like with Anne or Ginny. It impacts you, right? When they cancel or they are not totally focused on you - you have written about the angst Anne has caused you with HER issues......not fair right?
A T who was not functioning day to day would be doing a disservice to their clients/patients & patients/clients have enough to deal with - their treatment is about them.
I think that was Laurie's point. Try not to personalize it - I think everyone is trying to get you the help you need without making you feel worse.
Posted by Honore on April 18, 2007, at 9:43:32
In reply to im back, posted by wishingstar on April 18, 2007, at 0:18:45
Hi, Again, WS.
I'm not sure there really is an in=group here-- you know? I'm not in it-- and sometimes it bothers me-- or I think there is one, and there are all sorts of interesting conversations going on, maybe off-babble, that I'm left out of, so I feel somewhat deprived of some more intesne type of connection that others have.
But, honestly, maybe it exists-- but probably it doesn't-- I 'm not sure anyoen knows, or feels tht they're in it-- even if they are-- you know? We're all pretty much people who struggle a lot and don't feel terribily good, or accepted--- even if it's easy to forget that about each other.
You probably aren't aware that of the people here, you're one of the ones I've thought about and responded to most. It's true, that my responses never seem to give you what you're looking for, and there have been times when I've thought it wasn't a good idea for me to respond, because it seems to offend you-- but I do want you to know that I've been aware of trying to connect to you, given my own limitations in connecting and being as thoughtful and non-judgmental as I;d like to be,
I don't say that to hurt you or mak eyou feel guilty-- I've done it and will continue to because I like you and want to-- whether you like what I say or not-- if it doesn't feel right- don't feel you can't say so. I know it's very hard for anything to feel right now.
I know that Ginny's backing out of her commitment really destroyed your trust and sense of her caring. It would have done the same to me. You do really need, not just want, twice a week sessions. And the loss of that is not an imagined loss-- it's a real and important one. Maybe part of the problem is that she hasn't fully acknowledged how much of a loss.
Whether that's her limitation, or her defensiveness, or what-- I don't know. But it is terribly important for that to be acknowledged, rather than glossed over or minimized.
Maybe it is too late now, unless she realizes on her own-- I know you've tried very hard to communicate that she needs to do more to help you with it--
But I think-- even if this really is pie-in the-sky=ism that if you could put together something-- even not the ultimate T relationship--because I don't think this will be that one for you-- but something workable, something that gives you some support, i- maybe it could give you, in some small way, help through this passage to the next place in your life. Maybe that's not possible, but maybe, if you look for them, there are small flashes of connection with her, despite the loss of trust. If she's so totally let you down that those are too scary, maybe talk with her about how much you don't even want to look for any good with her now-- and see if she has any ideas, or emotional rapport with you, about that.
I'm sorry Ginny isn's the one-- and that you can't see someone twice a week-- when you need that.
I know you feel terribly judged about the :"needieness"-- but it isn't anything to be ashamed of. It's something that you need to see is okay, and can be worked through-- not judged or criticized or "controlled." (It's hard to live with-- and it's hard to stay within the strict boundaries of therapy-- when you feel it-- but it's not something that makes you bad.)
I'm glad you're sticking with her, though, even if it isn't what you need-- because I woudn't want you to be without some support, and connection.
You're got a lot of ideas about how things are-- and maybe over time, you'll come ot see that there are other ideas, or feeling/ideas-- more forgiving of yourself, more able to see meaning and what is potentially satisfying outside you.
I spent lots of time feeling the way you did-- and Emsam and abilify and a combination of other drugs is the one thing that really has changed things for me-- so maybe stick with the Emsam. Use topical cortisone-- prescription strength if you need it-- and try maybe some other drugs with it. Combinatoins sometimes are needed.
I hope you can stay somewhat connected here, despite the roughness of this place. Or find other places that are better-- but mostly try to nurture those things you've already created-- like the relationships here-- even if they don't, at the moment, do what you need them to.
Honore
Posted by antigua on April 18, 2007, at 10:11:10
In reply to im back, posted by wishingstar on April 18, 2007, at 0:18:45
Please don't ever regret posting. You have made so many valuable contributions, and I'm not saying that to make you feel better. I feel it in my heart.
I used to feel left out here sometimes because nobody would respond to me, but then I decided the posting itself was what was important to me--to let it out, and to try not to hurt if nobody responded. I think it's mostly that sometimes people just don't know what to say. That said, I think everyone cares and that hold me sometimes.
take care, pls, and I know it's hard, but try to do some good things just for you.
best,
antiuga, who is crawling out of her own black pit
Posted by wishingstar on April 18, 2007, at 10:34:02
In reply to Re: im back - addendum, posted by one woman cine on April 18, 2007, at 9:42:48
Yeah I dont know onewomancine. My job would be gone... but that isnt the biggest concern really. It's more my self-worth. I dont think it'd pop right back in..
I'm not sure what Laurie meant about the job. I totally agree with everything you said about me not being the most helpful person for them right now. I know it's not fair. I guess the part that bothered me about what Laurie said wasnt that though.. it was the part where she suggested that even the things I feel like I've done well at work - the small successes- werent really successes at all. That hurts. I know I'm not doing great and shes right, I shouldnt be doing it at all probably. But I dont think I've been completely useless, all the time... I dont know.
I'm going to talk to ginny tomorrow about options. She called this morning and I told her I dont know what to do with myself and how I'm feeling. She said we'll talk tomorrow. We'll see...
Posted by wishingstar on April 18, 2007, at 10:41:43
In reply to Re: im back » wishingstar, posted by Honore on April 18, 2007, at 9:43:32
thanks honore for the response...
first of all, I honestly cant ever remember feeling offended by anything you've said to me. perhaps that's part of the problem.. maybe I'm coming off in a way that is different from how I really feel and people dont know how to take it. I'm really sorry youve felt that way. It wasnt my intention. Even if I dont agree with a suggestion someone might have, I'm glad they (you) gave it. Please do tell me if I come off like that in the future... I really do apprecviate your attempts to connect and respond and I'm sorry if I unknowingly havent responded very openly to it. I guess it's easy to get lost in my own head sometimes.
you're probably right about the "in-group" idea. I've wondered many times if there is actually anyone who feels like theyre in it, or if we all just have different ideas of it. maybe the latter.
Ginny and I have talked some about the feelings I have towards her/our relationship now.. about being afraid to even look for anything good or grasp onto it like you mentioned. Unfortunately her response is usually "you can always go somewhere else if this isnt working" and thats about it. I dont want to go somewhere else... I want the old relationship back. But maybe it's not coming. I'm not sure. A close friend of mine talked to her this morning.. he knows how I feel about all this and things I havent really been able to get across to her, so I signed a release and they talked. I see her tomorrow so we'll see what happens.
im not really sure what else to say. but thanks for posting. im sorry again if ive been coming off as angry. im really not. hope youre doing okay.
Posted by wishingstar on April 18, 2007, at 10:43:25
In reply to Re: im back » wishingstar, posted by antigua on April 18, 2007, at 10:11:10
thank you antigua. you made a very good point. im going to try and keep that in mind and look at it from that angle. i know youre right.
hope youre doing okay and get out of that pit soon.. it's no fun.
Posted by gazo on April 18, 2007, at 11:38:24
In reply to Re: im back » gazo, posted by wishingstar on April 18, 2007, at 9:25:50
i thought Laurie was the T you liked so much back where you used to live.. am i mixed up? Why would she say that? Did she say "useless" or is that what you hear? i doubt you are useless at it, you seem to have a big heart.
are you sure you want to quit? what do you think you would do instead? i ask because i am now unemployed and it doesn't help with the mental state.
(((((wishing star)))))
Posted by wishingstar on April 18, 2007, at 11:46:40
In reply to Re: im back » wishingstar, posted by gazo on April 18, 2007, at 11:38:24
you're right gazo. laurie is the T i liked back where I used to live. I saw her twice about a month ago at my current Ts recommendation because I'd shut down from current T and she wanted to see if I'd talk to Laurie about what was going on. The session she said that stuff about my work was the second of those two. She didnt say the word useless, no, but said it in so many words. I forget her exact words but it was things like.. there's no way youre being helpful to these kids.. understanding the emotions (what i felt like i was doing well) isnt enough to help them.. (and then used an example from my caseload to show me why what i was doing was obviously ineffective).. I forget. My mind isnt working well today. but things like that.
I dont want to quit at all. but whats my other option? I obviously cant do it. Its not fair to the kids and the families. I was unemployed from Oct-Feb after I dropped out of grad school (due to depression) and it wasnt good for me either. But neither is working. If I wasnt working, I'd do what I do now the rest of the time... sit in front of my computer or my tv, lay in bed.. nothing useful or good for me. I just want to be okay, you know? Ginny pushed and pushed for me to get a job and was thrilled when I finally applied and got this one (it was my first interview).. now everyones telling me I should quit. Theyre right. I dont know what else to do.
Posted by gazo on April 18, 2007, at 12:30:18
In reply to Re: im back » gazo, posted by wishingstar on April 18, 2007, at 11:46:40
is it possible to take a leave of absence? i mean, maybe you aren't able to give 100% right now, but it doesn't have to mean you can't do it *ever.* Maybe lessen your case load?
i think *maybe* ( and don't know cuz i wasn't there) but maybe what Laurie and others mean is that you need to get yourself in a better space first. i would think you have an inside track that others don't have in understanding those emotions.. i mean, you understand the drive behind suicidal behaviours and feelings. You didn't just learn about it in a book.
personally i'd rather talk to someone who **knows.**
but your duty, to the kids and to yourself, is to get yourself well.
i hope you don't quit. i hope you find a way to recover without just walking away from it all.
much love and peace
Posted by muffled on April 18, 2007, at 15:19:11
In reply to Re: im back » gazo, posted by wishingstar on April 18, 2007, at 11:46:40
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on April 18, 2007, at 16:40:28
In reply to im back, posted by wishingstar on April 18, 2007, at 0:18:45
Wishing,
I'm sorry you don't feel like one of the in-group here. see how many people responded to your post?It's a long thread now, full of caring suggestions.
There are people here who care about you and want you to feel well again.
I don't have the energy to read the whole thread, but you have a lot going for you. For one thing, I really wish I could do ballet. I look like a paraplegic hippopotamus though. My husband laughs at me when I try to dance. It's BAD wishingstar.
I learned a lot from you when you were changing T's and i learned a lot about different resources for people in crisis. I think your posts have helped a lot of people learn more about what the options are. What the struggles are.
I just wanted to say that you're supported here, even when real life is that awful. You can come here. it's okay. We know your name, we know your story. you can share with us. It's okay to share, because I learned a lot listening to your struggles. I only wish that I had the magic suggestion that could make stuff better, or at least more bearable.
yours,
-Ll
Posted by wishingstar on April 18, 2007, at 17:07:35
In reply to Re: im back ** mild trigger** » wishingstar, posted by gazo on April 18, 2007, at 12:30:18
Unfortunately theres really no "leave of absence" or lessening of case load possible. I guess if I'd been there a long time, they might be willing to shuffle my cases and hold my position for when I get back, but I'm still pretty new, so I doubt thatd happen. I cant blame them.. it'd be quite difficult. And because of the job I do and the number of hours we spend with each kid/family a week, I only carry 3-4 cases at a time. Right now I have 3, but one is closing next week.. so thatll be 2. I cant really go below that... if I did, thered really be no reason to even be working.. the income would be so low that it wouldnt really be worth the stress its putting on me I dont think.
thank you for your encouragment gazo... it helps. i just hope im not totally incompetent there.
Posted by wishingstar on April 18, 2007, at 17:10:17
In reply to Re: im back » wishingstar, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on April 18, 2007, at 16:40:28
thank you llurpsie... now I feel sort of bad about complaining about not fitting in here, with all the supportive responses I've gotten. I really appreciate it. I appreciate your compliments and it's good to know you all are here, even if I guess I'm pushing it away without realizing it. I'm going to try and stop doing that. thank you.
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on April 18, 2007, at 17:15:05
In reply to Re: im back » LlurpsieNoodle, posted by wishingstar on April 18, 2007, at 17:10:17
> thank you llurpsie... now I feel sort of bad
NO!!!! no feeling bad about that. sometimes we feel like we don't belong. that's natural. really!.
>about complaining about not fitting in here, with all the supportive responses I've gotten. I really appreciate it. I appreciate your compliments and it's good to know you all are here, even if I guess I'm pushing it away without realizing it. I'm going to try and stop doing that. thank you.
>
>it's hard though, isn't it? to accept compliments when self-esteem is so resistant. Well, I hope you can learn to allow just a few compliments here and there to "stick". You deserve them. really.
-Ll
Posted by gazo on April 19, 2007, at 10:27:43
In reply to Re: im back ** mild trigger** » gazo, posted by wishingstar on April 18, 2007, at 17:07:35
(((wishingstar)))
can you call Laurie and ask her about this? You seem to trust her more and i thikn it would help to have clarify her meaning and give you solid advice. She knows you well..
whatever you decide... do what is right for you.
Posted by caraher on April 19, 2007, at 16:31:30
In reply to Re: im back » wishingstar, posted by gazo on April 19, 2007, at 10:27:43
Wishingstar checked in to a hospital last night (NOT the same as the last time!). It sounds like they've been attentive, they're tweaking meds, and her therapist even visited during the time her appointment would have been today.
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