![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by muffled on February 26, 2007, at 12:03:42
Well, I am avoiding the whole sex thing myself, utterly, so I proly not the best person for info, but I so felt for you in your post. But I will give it a shot....
said about your therapist probably not answering a question about your sexual attractiveness except with a question was wise,indeed. In my reading, that is often what therapists do say to their analysands. But, I simply could not leave it alone.
**Now the fact you can't leave it alone sounds like good fodder for T. WHY is this SO important to you?
> I can only say that my need to know was far greater than my imagined rejection feelings if the answer was no, I don't see you sexually. Anyway, I found out I was wrong, the truth hurt more that I could have ever imagined.
**Sorry you were hurt, but I am SO glad yout T is ethical.
Again thoughm WHY is it SO important to you that he see you sexually?>Why do I feel I can't trust him now? Its complicated as usual. It's because he has been so warm, kind, caring, sensitive, unbelievably understanding, accepting no matter what, that I could only imagine this was love. If not love, then at least he might think of me as sexually attractive and that would be something to hold onto, not to act on.
**Hmmm. Sex does NOT equal love. He may in fact care for you very deeply as a client, that does not means he must then want to have sex w/you.
>And, it was SO important to me. And, I know that is what I need to be working on in therapy. But, the child in me says, Gee, would that have been such a big deal for him to have had some automatic sexual reaction to me, one that occurred spontaneously, was noted but not dwelled upon before he moved on. It would have been a scrap I could carry like a talisman.It would have meant everything.
** sorry to be so annoying but again WHY is it so darn important to you that he feel sexually attracted to you?
>One last point. He said "I don't go there", meaning allowing himself to view a patient as anything but a patient. This greatly confuses me. Isn't this repression of emotion? Isn't that what we are in therapy to deal with and resolve? But, on a more human level, isn't it just natural to appreciate the sexuality of another person rather than negate it as if it weren't there? Don't we all, ALL, have such reactions to others, people we see on the street or ocassionally talk to, or even know better? And, that does not mean we act upon these feelings. I thought that was what made me human.
**We all have occasional usu PASSING sexual type thots towards another, yes, thats a human thing. But if for example I had a sexual thot bout my brother in law, or my nephews friend....that should be repressed, cuz its wrong, and it would pass and thats OK.
If I had sexual thots of eg. my brother in law, should I tell him? His wife?, no, I don't think so, it would just hurt others and cause trouble.
If your T said yes! I think your hot, would that truly be theraputic? or would perhaps it cause more trouble really in the end? Would it in fact harm the relationship? I think from the things I have read here on babble, that it very likely would do irreparable damage.>And, if he can deal with me in everyway, why can he not deal with my sexuality which is an integral part of me? I am not sexless. I am a woman, does anyone notice?
**LOL! Well I can't tell from here!!!ROFL!!!
It sounds like your T is willing to talk sexuality, but not HIS sexuality, which is exactly right on his part.
So I'm not sure what your looking for other than some kind of validation from him? If so, he has ALREADY validated and protected you by answering your question just the way he did.
Did this make ANY sense ay all to you?
Sorry if not.
Take care.
Posted by widget on February 26, 2007, at 12:34:58
In reply to Widget re:your T, posted by muffled on February 26, 2007, at 12:03:42
It does answer my question and everything you said makes perfect sense. BUT, it is very important that he find me attractive because that would validate me. I know its weird but that what's going on. If only he could see me as a woman, I would feel desirable. That is all I want. Yes, I agree it should be definitely looked at in therapy and I just realized last session that this is what my drive to interest him in me sexually has been about. Why is it so important? Wow, if I knew the answer to that....I think you are, also, right that he doesn't wish to talk about HIS sexuality. The problem is that in the past that is where I've been stuck. I've been trying to read into anything he says, doesn't say, voice inflection, etc. This, I am sure, is because of how I was brought up. Emotions were never shown nor expressed in words. I never knew where I stood with how my parents felt about me. So, its made me an extremist demanding disclosure about how important people (therapist) in my life REALLY view me and feel about me. So, do you think he was extending me a courtesy to talk about his feelings toward me at all? And, I totally agree that certain automatic, unplanned sexual attractions toward inappropriate people (ie: your nephew, your brother) should be repressed. But, in therapy, couldn't he have told me if this was the case? In fact, he told me this was not the case since "he doesn't go there." But, his not going there seems like severe repression on his part; how can you stop an automatic feeling of attraction, be it ever fleeting? Isn't that just human. And, I think at this point he would have told me if that were so and, yes, that would have satisfied me. I appreciate you listening to me; I know I probably don't make rational sense but it's how I feel. I realize I'll never get what I want from him and that is probably because I never got anything (attention, love, concern, etc.) from my father. And, due to that frustration as a child, this situation with the therapist if extremely frustrating. Unbelievably frustrating. I feel like a little kid who feels safe enough with this therapist (I was NEVER safe with my dad), to DEMAND what I feel I need. I could never have demanded anything from my father. I just tried to avoid him. I am driven to try to break my therapist's boundaries and I have told him that, not that he hasn't noticed, I'm sure! The more he resists, the harder I try. However, I am at the end of trying as I have asked in every oblique way culminating in a very direct way and its a no go. This makes me feel so very sad and unlovable and undesirable. Yes, I am probably lucky he is sooo ethical as I feel like an accident waiting to happen. Still, I love him and I love my husband and that's just how it is now. Loving him, however, is hopeless, just like trying to elicit love from my dad. I hope I am not confusing you. I am probably frustrating you as you are dealing from the head, rational thinking and I am coming from the heart.
Thanks for writing, I really appreciate any feedback. Sincerely, Widget
Posted by muffled on February 26, 2007, at 13:16:14
In reply to Re: Widget re:your T, posted by widget on February 26, 2007, at 12:34:58
> BUT, it is very important that he find me attractive because that would validate me.
*so, if you were unattractive you would not be worth anything??? I am not good looking, but I am honest and kind. I prefer to be validated on who I am, not my gender or what I look like...
>I know its weird but that what's going on. If only he could see me as a woman, I would feel desirable. That is all I want. Wow, if I knew the answer to that....
**I think you've got some skewed thinking going on here, and thats a good thing to work on on T. My T helps me to figger out my wrong thinking.
>I think you are, also, right that he doesn't wish to talk about HIS sexuality. The problem is that in the past that is where I've been stuck.
**Mebbe not so much that he don't wish to talk about his sexuality, but that he knows it would be damaging and unhelpful to YOU. He sees the big picture.
>I've been trying to read into anything he says, doesn't say, voice inflection, etc.
**I think alot of us babblers do this with our T's. Perhaps for our own self protection.
>So, do you think he was extending me a courtesy to talk about his feelings toward me at all?
**No, not a courtesy, he was not shutting you out as best he could, while protecting you and the therapy relationship.
>And, I totally agree that certain automatic, unplanned sexual attractions toward inappropriate people (ie: your nephew, your brother) should be repressed. But, in therapy, couldn't he have told me if this was the case?
**A most emphatic NO!!!!! I truly think it would cause many probs in the long haul. Unrealistic expectations, damaging to therapy fantasies, obsession with a topic that has no resolution etc. I am glad he is aware of this. That is why he is the T! So he can safely guide the therapy.
>In fact, he told me this was not the case since "he doesn't go there." But, his not going there seems like severe repression on his part
**Whether or not its repression on his part is really none of a clients business...that may seem harsh, but this is where those damn boundaries come in. They are VERY important to successful therapy. They protect BOTH the T and the client.
>how can you stop an automatic feeling of attraction, be it ever fleeting? Isn't that just human.
**do you act on every passing thot you have?
>And, I think at this point he would have told me if that were so and, yes, that would have satisfied me.
**You THINK it would have satified you......sigh, I have found SO many times that I am so sure bout something, and my T says otherwise and I don't beleive her, but eventually she is proven right. I always tell her that I find her SO annoying when that happens. Sometimes many months go by, b4 the truth that she was in fact right comes along....
>I appreciate you listening to me; I know I probably don't make rational sense but it's how I feel.
**And I appreciate your honesty.
>I realize I'll never get what I want from him
**No one person can meet all our needs. Our T's help us found out how to deal with this in real life.
Our T's help meet SOME needs, but never can meet them all.
What DO you want from him? Sex? Love? Help to straighten out your dysfunctionalities?>I feel like a little kid who feels safe enough with this therapist (I was NEVER safe with my dad), to DEMAND what I feel I need.
**Aha! What you FEEL you need from him.....
Our emotions are often wrong....>I am driven to try to break my therapist's boundaries. The more he resists, the harder I try.
**Thats also a fantastic topic to explore in T.
>However, I am at the end of trying as I have asked in every oblique way culminating in a very direct way and its a no go. This makes me feel so very sad and unlovable and undesirable.**What? That he won't have sex with you? That he doesn't look at you as an object of sexuality? Widget you are a good person it seems to me, is it not enough that he view you as a good person, worthy of getting the help she needs?
> Loving him, however, is hopeless, just like trying to elicit love from my dad.
**Oh......Hmmmmmmmm. Interesting thot there.........
>I hope I am not confusing you. I am probably frustrating you as you are dealing from the head, rational thinking and I am coming from the heart.
**Heart is good, but heart doesn't always make sense, and that why we got head too!!! You are NOT frustrating me, you are helping me distract me from myself and my sh*t. Thank you. I just hope I am not angering you with my bluntness. If so I am sorry. Please let me know.
Take care.
> Thanks for writing, I really appreciate any feedback. Sincerely, Widget
Posted by widget on February 26, 2007, at 17:44:04
In reply to Re: Widget re:your T, posted by muffled on February 26, 2007, at 13:16:14
Dear muffled, well, you are kind of harsh but its interesting. I should clear up few comments: when I said it was human to feel an unsolicited sexual attraction toward another, I certainly did not mean to act upon it. I meant to acknowledge it. There is a big difference. As far as "not going there" seeming to be highly repressed, it does, especially for a psychiatrist who has been through analysis. What is he afraid of? Of course, he says he is not afraid. But, your point is also right that it is none of my business. And, I am a good person, a very good person, a very sensitive and other-directed person with great empathy for anyone who is suffering. Why do I need to be validated by knowing my therapist could be sexually attracted to me? I don't know. I just do. I will not get what I want but I do know my own mind and heart. And, I do think he "loves" me in the agape sense and I know he looks forward to our sessions and that I am his most special client. And, that is a lot. hmmm. ok, hope you are doing all right. I'm just not as "in your face" as you in style but you sound like a good person, too. Oh, and, no, not being attractive does NOT make anyone less worthwhile. This is just me about me. I'm truly sorry if I offended you or anyone. I work hard to accept others as they are and where they are. Its just me that I ask so much of. Widget
ps thanks a million for your posts! I have not had anyone to talk this over with except the therapist and I cannot see him in unbiased way.
Posted by muffled on February 26, 2007, at 20:19:34
In reply to Re: Widget re:your T, posted by widget on February 26, 2007, at 17:44:04
> Dear muffled, well, you are kind of harsh but its interesting.
**LOL! Sorry. I guess I should say I am a little split in a dissociative sense. I am always here, but sometimes I am not all there, and may come across differently. I am sorry. When I am stressed it comes out much more unfortunately. I just have my own stuff going on. So I will work to be more calm. I proly bout to be blocked anyhow.
> What is he afraid of? Of course, he says he is not afraid.
**I suspect he's 'afraid' of hurting the valuable theraputic relationship you have built to this date.
>And, I am a good person, a very good person
**:)
> And, I do think he "loves" me in the agape sense
**I love the word agape!!!!!!
>I'm just not as "in your face" as you in style but you sound like a good person, too.**Thank you, I have my moments I suppose...
>I'm truly sorry if I offended you or anyone.
**Its pretty hard to offend me. I SO NOT offended :)
Its just me that I ask so much of. Widget
**Aww, my T says i do that too. My standards for myself are much harsher than for others.
You take it easy.
Thanks for tolerating me so well.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.