![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 13 to 37 of 40. Go back in thread:
Posted by Karolina on February 5, 2007, at 0:38:20
In reply to Re: The Next big Step :-) = update, posted by Karolina on February 4, 2007, at 22:39:14
Hey Elaine,
I didn't mean for it to look like I'm being insensitive or cold about your situation. Maybe I've mistaken the meanings of some of things you've written and I'm really sorry if I have. I think since I’ve been treated so badly by guys in the past (including experiencing rape by what I thought was a close friend that I had always trusted) it makes me extra suspicious of guys and their intentions. I just don’t want you to get hurt, but as I said I could be reading your situation totally wrong.
I think when it comes down to it, the most important thing for everyone is to just be happy. And if talking and being good friends with him is what feels important to you and makes you feel better right now, then that really is a good thing. and I hope things continue to be positive for you. I’m really sorry if I came across as hostile and I hope you understand.
Blove,
Karolina
Posted by philyra on February 5, 2007, at 14:34:13
In reply to The Next big Step :-) = update, posted by ElaineM on February 2, 2007, at 22:36:05
Elaine, I'm really glad to hear this.
I wonder if a part of your T actually really wants you to encourage him to increase his sessions and do the work that he needs to do around his feelings and conduct toward you. It's that whole thing of putting someone else in the role that you can't occupy yourself and that no one else can occupy...this may sound obvious, but I think you're serving some pretty big needs for him in terms of his journey.
Maybe this is the case with all therapeutic relationships, it's just a difference of boundaries...
take care,
philyra
Posted by ElaineM on February 5, 2007, at 23:56:32
In reply to Re: sorry E, posted by Karolina on February 5, 2007, at 0:38:20
>>>>>>I guess your situation just has me thinking about things from a different perspective.
I can completely understand. I know you're in a confusing position yourself now too. Plus, I welcome other perspectives - I have blinders that don't let me see other sides until someone else points them out.
>>>>>so I can’t imagine ever getting flowers from him, dinner, movies, etc. That would just seriously mess with my head, because I feel so strongly about him. But I don’t know if that’s the case for you; if you feel a strong emotional/physical attraction to him, or if it just feels more like somebody that’s there for you right now.
He's given flowers three times (they were all for special occasions -- graduation, my birthday, our anniversary). I've never had dinner with him before (though I did have lunch with him a few times last spring/summer). He used to talk about doing more alot last summer (we did the odd easy "socially" thing) but then kinda let the idea drop. It only started up again over the Christmas break. He's asked me a few times to try to go to a movie, but he said it was like an exposure therapy (during the summer). Now, he says it would be a way for me to show I'm trying to be "closer" to him. He thinks "closeness" is really important. And when I feel bad when I can't reciprocate verbally, I consider doing these other gestures of friendship.
But to answer the question part, I don't have a physical attraction at all. Infact, I can barely stand to be around any men right now. I was scared of him too, up until learning of his last two T meetings. Now I don't feel scared because I know that his T will protect him from his confusing emotions, and me from the him that believes in them. I do however feel a strong emotional connection to him. I need his presense - I need his human-ness. I care about him. I want him to not feel pain or sadness. I'm honored that he thinks I'm a good person :'). I'm grateful he helps me with medical bureaucracy. I'm glad to not be alone in my life. I still have twinges of fear, and sometimes hate, and lesser times, disgust, but I'm sure that comes from some of the other men who've marked my life. I'm trying very hard not to make him the scapegoat for others violence, just because he's a man, or an older man. It's hard, but I hate being prejudged because of my psych history, so I don't want to prejudge him [any more than I already do wihtout knowing] just because of his gender.
>>>>>>>I just hope he isn’t holding you back from real relationships with other men.
New years, he did say he'd be jealous if I went out, and just ended up with another guy. But he didn't say to not go. The only other time was just over a year ago I was seeing someone who was much younger, and who took me out on my first "real dates" ever. He was young and dear and knew all my crap, and understood, and didn't hold it against me. [he walked me to my T's office a few times] And T used to say that he respected him for being a man and going after what he wanted. He said he envied him. But he still supported me seeing him. As far as men now....that's not even a remote possibility. I'm too sick. THere's not a long line for hermit, invalid, social phobes. *weak smile* But I don't think I could handle being near (emotionally, or physically) anyone right now.
>>>>>That he isn’t trying to seduce you by saying kind things to you and giving you gifts, and then making you feel like you can’t meet other guys because it might make him angry or feel “hurt”.
I worry about that. I mean, I know he's lost the females in his life, and sometimes he says or does things that freaks me out. But he's also coming to terms with all this, by going to T. So I have to trust that he only has pure motives. I need to trust him. I *need* to trust in someone. Part of me is always talking myself out of fear, sadness and anxiety. Half the time I don't know where the self-talk ends, and the raw feelings begin. So I do still get scared by thoughts like what you've said. That's part of why I couldn't hug him today after all. I was too afraid he'd smell my hair, and then it'd all be ruined
>>>>>>> but I just wonder if it’s really best he is telling you all that.
Technically, originally, probably not. But it's so far beyond the appropriateness of personal disclosure now. He see's me as his friend. I am his friend. He talks to me in that role. He makes comments about how it's strange that I'm like another therapist to him -- I'm not saying it makes it right, but he truely doesn't realize the wrongness of anything he's doing/done.
>>>>>>Or maybe what I really mean is that I hope he isn’t making you pay him anymore
I'm not paying him anything.
>>>>>I know you are probably thinking I am saying this all out of jealousy but I really just care. I know I’m not sugar-coating things and maybe I should, because it’s not my intentions to offend you or upset you, but I just still see a lot of red flags from what you are saying.
Not at all. I don't think it's anything to be jealous over. AT least for me.
>>>>>>I know I’m not sugar-coating things and maybe I should, because it’s not my intentions to offend you or upset you, but I just still see a lot of red flags from what you are saying.
((((k))))) I love having both sides. I like some toughness. I wish T had more toughness. Plus, while I think I know where some red flags are, I know I miss alot too. I misjudge people all the time. I misplace trust. I've been blinded before in life by what I want to see, while being in a nightmare.
>>>>>>>where guys will lie and say anything to a girl who feels bad about herself so that they can get laid. or they will manipulate a girl who can’t stand up for herself.
I don't think he's lying. But I've made mistakes before. I don't have the greatest intuition. Plus, he knows about what happened in the past. He knows I've been hurt before. He knows about my childhood. He knows almost all of the badness that's happened to me. I think he would try hard to not be the past. I sometimes think that that's why he's been so unforcefull. HE knows I'm used to a different type of male. He knows I like pain. And I like loud. And I like being told what to say and do, and he's ALWAYS been the exact opposite to that. Earlier in our relationship, I used to ask him if he would hit me when I thought I was gonna start crying, and he said he would never be that kind of person, and he would never partake in something like that. Infact, I think that's why he wanted me to finally talk about relationships with males (this past summmer), so he could learn what to not ever be like around me.
Only a small part of me cares anyways. I kinda don't really. I never really do. Anything is usually alright. Plus, i hate myself anyways, and I'm pathetic and sick and ugly and disgusting already. So it's no big loss whatever happens. Ever.
>>>>I didn't mean for it to look like I'm being insensitive or cold about your situation. Maybe I've mistaken the meanings of some of things you've written and I'm really sorry if I have.
Please don't ever apoligize to me. ((k)) It would take a hell of alot for me to ever think I derserve one -- and this definately isn't one of those times. Saying something tough isn't wrong. I can tell it wasn't said with malice or bad intentions.
>>>>>>>I think since I’ve been treated so badly by guys in the past ... it makes me extra suspicious of guys and their intentions.
I don't have a good track record myself. I'm really sorry that happened to you. Such an isolating, devastating thing :'( ((((((K)))))) I understand. And of course you are suspicious. I'm always on-edge myself. But worst. I'm always expecting the worst. ANd give up, when I sense it. Become resigned to it. It's like paralysis. And it's bad cause it's like auto-pilot now -- hard to know it's happening. And sometimes I get really overcome by the idea that it's better to just give, than to be taken from. Because that's worse than anything :"( But he has not been aggressive. And I've done neither. ANd so I have to try and trust. Or I'll go mad. I *need* this to work out. I *need* ideas proved wrong. I need to know I don't destroy everyone I come in contact with. I need things to go back to regular, without me hurting him as a person, or killing him as a professional. This trust just has to be right.
Don't say sorry - I know you're a friend.
blove EL
Posted by widget on February 6, 2007, at 7:39:25
In reply to Re: sorry E (loooong) » Karolina, posted by ElaineM on February 5, 2007, at 23:56:32
To Elaine, I, too, see some red flags here. Believe me, it would be very tempting if my therapist treated me like your's does. I have NO idea how he really feels about me and it drives me crazy. So, if this happened in my situation, I don't know what I'd do but I would be very intrigued. I will admit to jealousy on my part but not in that I would take this from you. But, I am so confused at this point, that such admissions on my therapist's part might send me over the edge. Especially the part about him being jealous if you had a date with another. It would be better for HIM if he worked on these feelings with another therapist, not with you. You are the patient and the most vulnerable. He needs to take care of you by being the grown-up and the therapist. Who knows what the right answer is but be careful! I relate so much to what you write and feel a great empathy for you. Good luck. You are definitely NOT alone.
Posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on February 6, 2007, at 21:17:51
In reply to The Next big Step :-) = update, posted by ElaineM on February 2, 2007, at 22:36:05
Hi Elaine,
I just got a little burst of energy started around 3pm and I'm gonna ride it until I crash. You know. don't get so many good energy days that I can waste.Pink roses, and a man that cares enough for you and for himself that he takes a very very brave step and "confesses".
I think you are an amazing person, and you deserve to be loved. Step back and think about it-- you have told this man and showed this man so many of your scary vulnerabilities and he just wants more from you. You HAVE done a lot to stay committed to this relationship, even when it crosses the line from therapy to social work to courtship to YOU providing therapy and back again.
Are you a little proud of the work that you have done together? Can you ride that wave of positive feeling and take the next big step? you know what it is...
But I also understand that this stuff is a process. I know that your body health right now is really holding you back, and insofar as your T acts as a social worker/case manager/devoted friend, I think you're right- he's not a bad guy. He's helping you in many ways. And you are amazing, because you are able to accept the help, even as you try to resist it because you have a negative self-image and are ashamed of your health situation some days
you have some special love IN you, and I can tell that one of your greatest strengths is your ability to support others and take them seriously.
You deserve pink roses and more :)
-Ll
Posted by ElaineM on February 7, 2007, at 19:48:20
In reply to Re: The Next big Step :-) = update » ElaineM, posted by philyra on February 5, 2007, at 14:34:13
>>>>>I wonder if a part of your T actually really wants you to encourage him to increase his sessions and do the work that he needs to do around his feelings and conduct toward you.
I don't know. But he has said he started, and continued, to go because it was important to me. He hasn't told me if he's decided about increasing yet. So I don't know. I've pushed for the increased frequency even before his T suggested it, so maybe he will. I'll have to see. But maybe it's true that it's easier for him to do all this if it's in response to a request, and not from a need within himself - less threatening somehow. I'm just guessing here though.
We have talked about how difficult it is for him to officially switch sides. Be in the patient's chair when he's with his therapist. He's not used to be the one exposing themself. Maybe it was easier to do it with me first, cause I was only a friend and not someone above him. Not sure.
>>>> think you're serving some pretty big needs for him in terms of his journey...Maybe this is the case with all therapeutic relationships, it's just a difference of boundaries...
Sounds like Jung or something.
I just want to end up helping more than I hurt.
thanks for the words Philyra.
blove El
Posted by ElaineM on February 7, 2007, at 19:50:49
In reply to Re: sorry E (loooong), posted by widget on February 6, 2007, at 7:39:25
Thanks for writing Widget.
>>>>Believe me, it would be very tempting if my therapist treated me like your's does.
That's really honest of you. I don't know, I suppose I could feel differently if his character was different. If he had different actions I may have had different reactions. Or maybe even if he started being this way from the beginning. But the change from before and now was too big, and was too disturbing. It's hard for me to talk about this part. It started coming up for me around the fall, but it was (is?) upsetting that he seemed so neutral before (somewhat mentor-ish, or almost priest-like) -- and that's why I was sent to him. To experience a safe male (instead of only safe females). ANd then when it changed, when the connotations sank in, when he would speak as though I was his child one meeting, then switch to talking about the "other stuff" a few later, it was driving me crazy. Really. He didn't know he was doing that, but still. I was really unstabilized because of that. I've pushed it away since then, and try to forget, but it's still upsetting when my thoughts turn that way. But maybe it all would've been different if he'd been this way when I was a new patient. I don't think so, but I'll never know.
>>>>>I will admit to jealousy on my part but not in that I would take this from you.
I wouldn't wish it on anyone. But I know that alot of clients can feel frustrated by boundaries. [Like, I'd love to be able to hang out with my old (female) T. Not in a "mother" way, but maybe as a "cool aunt" way.] I know now that the concept of boundaries became a part of all the helping professions for a reason. It hurts when LadyT's emails to me are SO different, and SOOOO much shorter than T's now. But I understand why she has to be like that -- especially since I'm not even her client anymore. The sh*tty thing is, I didn't even notice her boundaries before (when I was with her). They are only glaring in relation.
>>>>>>It would be better for HIM if he worked on these feelings with another therapist, not with you.
He has been with one for a little while now - and just started talking about "us". I'm so relieved and grateful. I have high hopes. But I think the "worst" is over now.
I'm trying to be careful. THanks for the support. Stay strong yourself.
blove, El
Posted by widget on February 7, 2007, at 21:08:04
In reply to The Next big Step :-) = update, posted by ElaineM on February 2, 2007, at 22:36:05
Dear Elaine, This is a big deal, no doubt. You have become the therapist and, unfortunately, your therapist is meeting some of his own needs via you. It would be quite confusing. It is good that he is talking to someone about what is going on with him. But, how about you? Is there another therapist to help you? Since this has become more of a romantic relationship, you might feel better talking to a more neutral party. No judgement; I do not know that I would have been able to resist such special treatment. I have such strong feelings for my psychiatrist and I am constantly pushing his boundaries. I don't know what would happen if I was successful. I cannot imagine as he seems impervious to my attempts to sway him. I probably should not have said I was jealous of you; you are obviously wrestling with this big time. You are undoubtably right that you would not wish this upon any other woman. I need to remember that especially when I meet with him tomorrow. I know that he is "safe" for better or worse, though, and I still cannot help pursuing him, rather like Wiley Coyote and the Road Runner. If I actually "caught" him, I don't know what I would do.
Posted by ElaineM on February 7, 2007, at 22:09:22
In reply to Re: The Next big Step :-) = update » ElaineM, posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on February 6, 2007, at 21:17:51
>>>>>and you deserve to be loved.
Thank you for the compliment. I don't think I need love, but I guess "need" and "deserve" are different things huh? I need common courteousy and a bit of respect and equality - I really think that's all. And I think I deserve those things cause I'm alive. But I don't deserve love. The only ones who loved me are dead. And no one will love me again -- I don't expect or hope for it. So I'm okay with that. Plus, T doesn't love *me* - he loves Ex's. I'm just around.
>>>>>>>Are you a little proud of the work that you have done together?
I'm proud I've stayed. Never stayed this long with a T before. I'm proud I never slipped and revealed his name. Cause now everything is gonna work out. I'm proud he is doing hard stuff.
>>>>>>>Can you ride that wave of positive feeling and take the next big step? ...
No :( Too much. Too much stuff in my head. I don't want more change than T's improvement right now. I can't do more.
>>>>>>But I also understand that this stuff is a process.thank you for understanding :')
>>>>>>I think you're right- he's not a bad guy. He's helping you in many ways.
No, not bad -- just flawed, and mistake-making, and emotional, and a bit messed up like everyone else. No excuse - but true regardless.
>>>>>>>And you are amazing, because you are able to accept the help,
I never thought of it that way. I don't like needing help -- it means suffering and letdown when it doesn't come. I don't like taking it -- it means I'm weak. But sometimes you have to either ask for/take help, or get ready to die. Does it count if you only ask/take when you're desperate? I wouldn't do either if it wasn't combined with desperation. I would do anything if I was desperate enough.
If his name and title and efforts result in me getting proper treatment and (please god) relief then he can have me. I'd give myself to him. He could have me forever. I'd be whatever he wanted -- best friend...whatever. All I want is to be better. I want my old health back. Why did this happen to me? I thought the worst was over... it started again. :'( I'm lucky I kinda like a little pain cause I wouldn't have been able to take this past year. Now my body is as ruined as my mind. I'm glad I hate myself or I'd be sadder that the future looked so bad. I just don't want to suffer forever, with no end in sight :'( ....k, gotta stop...gonna have a cry-baby fest...>>>>>>you have some special love IN you, and I can tell that one of your greatest strengths is your ability to support others and take them seriously.
I love helping others - makes me feel a little better about myself. Thank you for saying such nice things.
I do love pink roses. I love pink everything. [But I've been good. Used to only be able to wear pink (white and black). Cause I figured people would think I was a girl, and not so ugly, and they wouldn't want to hurt me or make fun of my flaws. ANd I think males would see pink and remember I'm female and maybe be nicer or not insult how I look (or notice BDD-part). But even LadyT said I should work at wearing other colors. ANd T now. So I've been good with wearing more - sometimes teal, red, light blue. Can't wear other colors yet. anyhoo...]
You have a knack for writing soothing posts -- I hope their's someone who does the same for you. (((((LL)))))) Sorry I'm down today. Sometimes my mood control is like doing chin-ups. A few days will be good and I'll seem great, the next few I'll just be dangling below the bar holding on white-knuckled, seeming OK-ish. And after that my arms give out, and the sadness (and all the rest comes) and I just collapse onto the ground below and lay there till my arms have recooped enough to hang on a bit more. (and it's pretty impossible to convince myself I'm fine, when I'm at that level)
Sorry, I hope I didn't snuff out any of your good spirits.
thanks for being a friend :')
blove El
Posted by ElaineM on February 7, 2007, at 23:00:41
In reply to Re: The Next big Step :-) = update, posted by widget on February 7, 2007, at 21:08:04
>>>>>>>But, how about you? Is there another therapist to help you?
I've confided in several other different types of "helping professionals". The responses varied. Two, I had to stop seeing cause I graduated. One told me I kinda didn't want to talk to her about it (she couldn't hear it), and that I wasn't an appropriate candidate to meet with anyone else there. ANd one heard everything but said that her agency was full with a huge wait-list. Finally told (in a way) my old T. But because I'm not eligible to be a client, she can only see me a few times a year (though she's supportive when she has time, over email). It's very hard to find a balance between saying enough so that I don't have to deal with the confusion alone, but censored enough that I don't give away his identity. And that's HARD where I am. So that's the long and short of that question ;-)
>>>>>>I have such strong feelings for my psychiatrist and I am constantly pushing his boundaries.
That's entirely normal. (just as, NOT having such an intense reacton, is also normal) But I've learned it can be common.
>>>>>>...I probably should not have said I was jealous of you; you are obviously wrestling with this big time.
Not at all. I *am* wrestling with this, but always say what you're thinking (at least to me) :) Infact, I had also felt that I worded my post too much like a "warning/order", or something like that, and I worried that it may seem to invalidate or condemn the feelings you have for your pdoc -- which wasn't my intention.....So no worries all around.
>>>>>>>You are undoubtably right that you would not wish this upon any other woman.
I wouldn't wish all the feelings and thoughts, confusion and ambivalence and isolation, that have sprung from this, on another man or woman -- that's all. [not to say I don't get positive stuff from T too]
>>>>>>>I know that he is "safe" for better or worse, though, and I still cannot help pursuing him, rather like Wiley Coyote and the Road Runner. If I actually "caught" him, I don't know what I would do.
That's okay. It's your "job" to describe your feelings and thoughts as best you can. And it's his job to remain "impervious to your attempts" at "catching" him. He must be really experienced, and care about your psychological wellbeing alot to protect you that way. :') It sounds like you have a good T Widget.
blove, El
Posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on February 7, 2007, at 23:05:55
In reply to Re: The Next big Step :-) = update » Llurpsie_Noodle, posted by ElaineM on February 7, 2007, at 22:09:22
nah, you don't snuff out my good spirits.
my swirling mess of neurotransmitters did a fine job of that.
oh well. bedtime soon, I hope.
you deserve to be loved, and you ARE loved. I love you anyways. I think you're very special, and dear to my heart. I wish I could be closer to you in real life, 'cause I'd be a good friend. We can sit and have cry-baby fests together and I can teach you the joys of kiwi-lime green and ORANGE.
it would be groovy. Do you think you'd feel well enough to go to babble-fest in San Diego?
That might be a fun trip. I'd even give you all the green m&ms. That's how much you mean to me.
you keep up your chin-ups. hard work.no cheating by standing on a chair.
health is important. you've got some great folks caring for you, and maybe a flawed one or two also. But we care, and we want the best for you.
((((Elaine))))
Posted by ElaineM on February 8, 2007, at 15:49:32
In reply to Re: The Next big Step :-) = update » ElaineM, posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on February 7, 2007, at 23:05:55
THanks LL. Not as desperately low today.
>>>>>>Do you think you'd feel well enough to go to babble-fest in San Diego?
I couldn't. Too physically difficult. Too far -- too financially difficult ;-)
Babble fest is the APA convention? How far ahead are they planned? If next one was somewhere a touch closer...
THough I don't know if I could ever meet any of you. The dumbest thing I'd be worried about (glaring proof of my psychological un-health) is that I'd be too ugly to show myself to you all. That you'd *see* me, and then never want to type to me anymore. And also that someone would look at me and think, Ya sure you were anorexic. Petty and stupid huh.
I'd love to have images to put to everyone's names though. Let me know if another random, roving mini Babble-meet is ever in the works though.Oh well. I still think you're a good friend anyways - even if I never meet you.
(((((LL)))))) You take care too.
blove, EL
Posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on February 8, 2007, at 16:37:03
In reply to face to face » Llurpsie_Noodle, posted by ElaineM on February 8, 2007, at 15:49:32
> THanks LL. Not as desperately low today.
oh good!
>
> >>>>>>Do you think you'd feel well enough to go to babble-fest in San Diego?
>
> I couldn't. Too physically difficult. Too far -- too financially difficult ;-)
>too bad :(
> Babble fest is the APA convention? How far ahead are they planned? If next one was somewhere a touch closer...
>
I dunno. have to ask the world wide web I spose> THough I don't know if I could ever meet any of you. The dumbest thing I'd be worried about (glaring proof of my psychological un-health) is that I'd be too ugly to show myself to you all. That you'd *see* me, and then never want to type to me anymore. And also that someone would look at me and think, Ya sure you were anorexic. Petty and stupid huh.
hmm. perhaps you should talk to a therapist about these issues. your self-loathing is definitely WAY WAY out of control. I'm sure you know that though. Part of feeling better about yourself is practicing positive self-affirmations in your head. things like-
I Enjoy my earlobes.
I'm an adult and I'm taking the responsibility for my own health, including asking for help when things get too complicated.
I'm going to go to the nearest babble party, even if I have to meet new people. even if I doubt myself. (I know that I doubted myself VERY much the first time I ever met a babbler. But we had a very nice time together, and I even ended up inviting SatinDoll to stay at my place a little while later. Of course I was scared out of my poor wits to meet Dr. Bob, but Clearskies was really sweet, and I felt like I could certainly chat plenty with her and SatinDoll, even if I felt weird about meeting Dr. Bob and whoever else showed up. I ended up meeting several new people, and found them all to be very fun, very cool people. We had lots in common, kind of like on the first day of school after summer vacation. excited to see old friends but wondering if you'll make the right impression... you know?)
> I'd love to have images to put to everyone's names though. Let me know if another random, roving mini Babble-meet is ever in the works though.I wanna go too! I think we should just buy an RV and random babblers can drive it all around the country and have tailgate babble parties. what do you think?
>
> Oh well. I still think you're a good friend anyways - even if I never meet you.likewise
>
> (((((LL)))))) You take care too.
> blove, ELElaine, I've met some very ugly people in my life. I always find something beautiful about them, if they are indeed beautiful on the inside it cannot help but show itself after a few minutes of conversation. You have shown yourself to have a lot of inner beauty and funny smarts too. So, I don't care how far you deviate from whatever sick beauty ideal the tabloids are promoting these days- you are strikingly beautiful and your outsides cannot change that ONE bit.
I've got some crushingly bad self-esteem somedays too. Actually for my first 21 years on this Earth. But I've been working really really hard on it. Most of it comes from being far away from my family. From being with a guy who is confident in his ability to be a better person, and confident in his love for me, when my love for myself wanes. It really helps to have someone who loves me unconditionally. Too bad I had to wait 21 years. :(
Oh. I guess it's not unconditional. The love wanes somewhat when retail-therapy lurpsie decides to amass some excess charges and forgets to pay her bills. oopsie.
Posted by ElaineM on February 12, 2007, at 20:43:52
In reply to Re: face to face » ElaineM, posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on February 8, 2007, at 16:37:03
Doing really bad. Really bad. I feel funny. T was looking into getting me into a collegues (PCP) roster, and I was so hopeful these past few days. Hope of change. I'm never optimistic. and it was there, and I let it grow. I let it. I know better than to fall for bullsh*t, mind-trick feelings like that. Cause you only, you always, get burned. and come out looking like a pathetic loser. BUt I couldn't help it. and i felt good. making posts about songs -- actually being able to enjoy music and get through a whole one before turning it off.
And then it all fell through today. I'm such a @sshole. Why do I do this to myself. It's better to stay dead, and I KNOW that, but allowed myself to feel a good emotion anyway. I SI'd after months and months -- not usual place, special place for when I bigtime self-loathe. So much self-hate!!!! If someone else would've been around to beat the sh*t out of me, I wouldn't have had to. But no other choice. I WISH someone else was here.
I feel so hopeless. I have no options. I don't care what happens to me anymore. Probably didn't ever.
LadyT's gonna be in for a lovely meeting with me now. God, I hate myself, I'm so sick of everything. Never-ending everything.T freaked out over the weekend saying my writing made him too unstable and unhappy. Kept trying to check in on him, and he ignored two, and then sent one saying that he's too wounded up, and doesn't have words. [but lots of "tear faces" = :"( ] Even though on Friday he was teary and asking if he could still email me if I stop leaving the house to come as much. THen wouldn't respond to tell me he was alright over weekend. I was sooo worried didn't know what was happening. Said I left him devastated. I'm destroying him like everyone else.
THen today he said he was more fine.
And now I'm scared about Valentine's Day. Need to buy something so he feels cared for and not broken by me. Get ready to get hugs. And give. And I'm seeing the Doctor he wrote the letter to -- I hope it didnt' offend her. I have to have a really grovelly apoligy ready. I love debasing myself.
I wish I was sick-thin right now. Only time i've ever mattered, and cared least about me, life and the world. I hate myself. I hate my hair - I cut it, and dyed it. No more chains to hold me down. But I'm ugly now. Short-long now. Not Long-long. i probably look like a boy. :"( Who cares. Already ugly. NOw really ugly. Big difference.
I should be alone. My heart feels like it's breaking. :"(
Posted by philyra on February 12, 2007, at 22:03:12
In reply to Not good ***trig SI, posted by ElaineM on February 12, 2007, at 20:43:52
Elaine. I'm so sorry things are so hard for you right now. I wish I could help in some way, show you the wonderful, giving, loving person that I sense you to be. I usually have a good read on people, too, so maybe you could try to trust my judgment :).
I'm holding you in my heart. I hope that's okay to do. I hope LadyT can give you some support. You deserve it...you deserve to feel okay.
I hear the exhaustion in your post. God, it must be excrutiating.
thinking of you.
philyra
Posted by muffled on February 12, 2007, at 22:16:54
In reply to Not good ***trig SI, posted by ElaineM on February 12, 2007, at 20:43:52
Sorry you feeling bad El.
What happened? You couldn't get in to see the other T?
When do you see lady T ?
Things will get better. Up and down.
I used to think I was evil.
Do I seem evil to you?
You don't seem ugly to me.
You seem nice and caring and deserving of a break to get a T that can help you with some of your 'stuff' more.
Hang in there El.
I am glad you were able to trust us babblers to share your hurts with.
We are here with you and understand lotsa stuff, cuz we got our own 'stuff' too, and know how it hurts so much sometimes.
But hurt eases some eventually, and things get a little better, and with some good help we can sort out the lies and crap we tell ourselves....
Take care,
You special to me OK?
As best we can be on the net I guess.
Muffled
Posted by MidnightBlue on February 13, 2007, at 0:29:32
In reply to Not good ***trig SI, posted by ElaineM on February 12, 2007, at 20:43:52
Elaine,
Not good. Not good at all. Sorry. So sorry. Not enough, but I am sorry.
Hugs (NICE hugs not hurtful ones)
MB
Posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on February 13, 2007, at 9:19:02
In reply to Not good ***trig SI, posted by ElaineM on February 12, 2007, at 20:43:52
(((((Sweetie))))))
I got my hair cut yesterday too. shortest it's been in maybe 4 years.
Secret to not looking like a boy = carriage (don't collapse across your chest. keep your head balanced on your neck) and since you already wear very feminine-colored clothes, that will help a lot.
are your ears pierced? Earrings are fun and cheap way to feel special. you can pick up several pairs for less than 10 bucks at the mall. Buy something fun and something elegant and something chic and modern.
(((((hug))))))
your T is healing. He was a really sick sick guy for a long time. you got used to that. He got used to that. He's not a bad person, but he's trying to change. He's trying HARD to change. And it's his right to tell you how you make him feel as a person. As your T, it's NOT his right to make you feel like a bad person for actions that he encouraged.
Does that sound contradictory? yeah, well it is. That's because the T relationship has been sacrificed. Sick T was kind of consistent in his sick-ness. Looking back on your posts, though, everytime that you speak of a stress on your T-Elaine relationship you have gone through intense feelings of self-doubt.
This is going to be the biggest challenge yet. When can you get to see a real T? Any news on that front?
Until you do, please tell us what is going on and how it makes you feel. You are not disgusting and loathsome. You are very lovely inside. I'm sorry that you're hurting yourself right now. You've had a relapse. That's part of the road to recovery, though. Please take a step back and think-- did you EVER think that there would be a time in your life when you would go for several months without taking out self-destructive instincts on your own flesh?
Okay. you slipped up. If you're in a bad way, get to the doctor and make sure your boo boo's don't get infected. I've had 2 infections this year. ugh. neosporin is good for abrasions and scrapes, and helps prevent scarring. hydrogen peroxide is good for cleaning out deeper and more jagged injuries.
And now we can stick to prevention.
1) you use tools to SI? throw them away.
2) you have certain parts? put a bandaid or a dozen on them.
3) distract.
4) keep your skin moisturized and soft. Take care of your outsides and they won't seem so icky.My personal favorite is to take a long bath with Epsom salts. They have Mg++ which is absorbed through your skin and has a wonderful calming sedating quality. This is perfect way to end a binge. Take 3 steps. throw away tools. slap a bandaid on it. fill up tub.you're the one who helped me so much when I was going through this stuff, remember my little cotton gloves and things? They are still part of my daily life. When my cuticles get crispy, I glop on tons of hand cream and put on my gloves and that usually saves the day.
When I find that I'm picking nonetheless, I tell myself what my T told me. Relapse is a step to recovery. I tell myself that I relapsed with the skin on my index finger, but that I have the power to stop before I allow my anxiety, self-destructiveness to take over and ruin a few more fingers at the same time.
((((((((((Elaine))))))))))
your fellow short-haired, non-lesbian, non-male friend, with sassy earrings,
-Ll
Posted by ElaineM on February 13, 2007, at 15:12:39
In reply to Re: Not good ***trig SI » ElaineM, posted by philyra on February 12, 2007, at 22:03:12
>>>>>I'm holding you in my heart. I hope that's okay to do. I hope LadyT can give you some support.
thanks philyra :') You guys are the only ones who care. I just hope the damn snow lets both of us get there. I have a really bad feeling about it. Her needing to cancel would be the last thing I could withstand right now. it's been all that's been getting me through. Even if it we do meet, I'm already terrified of the letdown that's gonna happen the next day. nothing to hold on to anymore. what can you do though. nothing.
glad you are here. el
Posted by ElaineM on February 13, 2007, at 15:25:56
In reply to Re: Not good ***trig SI » ElaineM, posted by muffled on February 12, 2007, at 22:16:54
>>What happened? You couldn't get in to see the other T?
Sorry I know I'm confusing. T was seeing if he could get me into the roster of one of his physician friends. So he could communicate with him without professional pretenses and bureaucracy, and waittimes, and info delays, etc. But he talked to his friend and it's not possible. :""(
The letter he wrote was to the doc I have now. i got word he spoke to her on the phone today and she's not interested in pursuing my case any further (but she will still see me if I have a cold or need shots or something). No thanks. So I spent the whole day crying. Hope is like SI - except more painful. hate myself. miss my family that's gone :"( don't even care about my health anymore. trying pills for nothing. going to scary appointments. for nothing. She told him that she had no further ideas on how to proceed, but also didn't see the point in making a referral to someone else for consultation. No one cares about being helpful, or patient's best interest, or alleviating pain, only in being "right" and finishing their part. Pass the puck, or a blind eye. that's all.
>>>>Do I seem evil to you?
You don't seem ugly to me.No you don't seem that way at all to me. thanks for seeing me in a better light than I see myself. :(
Just SO not good right now.
>>>You special to me OK?
(((muff))) I'll try to hold that with me. It's hard though. everything is so hard. hurts to try anymore you know.
blove el
Posted by ElaineM on February 13, 2007, at 15:39:04
In reply to Re: Not good ***trig SI » ElaineM, posted by MidnightBlue on February 13, 2007, at 0:29:32
((((MB)))) you always say something. sorry I'm so low. So desperately sad, I can't stand it. My eyes feel like fire from crying - Like shampoo in your eyes.
>>>Hugs (NICE hugs not hurtful ones)
Online hugs are always good cause you only feel them in your heart, and not on your body. Plus you never have to return them. never *have* to do anything.
Sometimes I just can't get rid of the feeling that I don't belong here -- Like, in the world. And it feels so much like the truth, and so logical and clear, next to everything else that happened to me, and going on now. And I sometimes just can't believe that not existing wouldn't be better. Even when I'm good and as close to happy as I get, this thought is always there. When i'm doing really bad, it gets bigger.
If suffering just had a deadline, then I could do it. I'm really really good at taking pain and emotional stuff too. I can take anything, if I know when it's gonna end. But an end doesn't come all the time to everyone. I've seen it happen that way. I don't want that to be me.
:(
thanks for listening to my cr@p, el
Posted by ElaineM on February 13, 2007, at 16:26:11
In reply to Re: Not good ***trig SI » ElaineM, posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on February 13, 2007, at 9:19:02
>>>>Secret to not looking like a boy = carriage (don't collapse across your chest. keep your head balanced on your neck)
okay, I'll try and remember that. I do tend to hunch (cause of my back). ANd to be more invisable. I'll have to work at that. I probably will wear more pink now. Wish it wasn't cold so I could wear my long skirts. Always feel better in those.
Were you afraid to cut your hair? Do you feel different inside when its gone?
I usually just wear small earrings. But I do wear girly necklaces. :)
Thanks for saying accepting stuff about T. He tries to help more than he hurts. He had asked me to read him out some of my writings last week, and then said he couldn't take how they made him feel, but he did say it wasn't my fault. He said, "sorry for being kind of useless right now" too.
>>>>When can you get to see a real T? Any news on that front?
Don't know. Barely care. I'd settle for a doctor first. Though I didn't cancel the rtrauma group yet. still just have the email saved in my draft folder. I have no desire to do anything. don't want to speak , or try, or fight at all.
>>>>did you EVER think that there would be a time in your life when you would go for several months without taking out self-destructive instincts on your own flesh
I have before. It's just never gone forever i guess :( Never did this when i was a teen. Maybe when others are around who hate me, I forget to hate myself SO much, and then I don't feel like doing it.
I don't know for sure. I don't get relief when i do it. I do it cause I can't stand hate being inside, and I want to punish myself for being the sh*t that I am, instead of someone better. I'm know that's messed up thinking, or bad self-esteem, but I can't stop it.>>>>neosporin is good for abrasions and scrapes, and helps prevent scarring. hydrogen peroxide is good for cleaning out deeper and more jagged injuries.
I use both all the time. Sometimes I use the hp as a milder form of SI. [I won't explain it cause its not the best thing to talk about] But I do try and make sure they're clean. Sometimes though I do it in places that don't heal well cause of where it is -- but I just put on like 10 bandaids to at least keep bad stuff out.
SOmetimes I want to be bad with it like I was before because that's all professionals respond to. "Crazy" words, and dysfunctional reactons, is all people listen and look for, from "crazy" people. [Even dentists. How is it that me complaining of tooth pain results in months of delays, and "let it rest" excuses, and "sympathy sensitivity" theories, before I just get another d@mn root canal done. Maybe he just wanted to wait till it was horrendous and extreme so he could charge more. Whatever - just another example.] I'm sure stupid doctor would have a bunch of other ideas, and referrals, and plans if I had come to her scarred up all over. Or high as a kite. Or emaciated and thin-haired.
I just can't help being monotone and un-dramatic when I'm at medical appointments. I don't think or speak well around people. Plus I won't give them my tears. And I won't give a pantomine, like some of the people I saw when I was at the ER before. Hysterics when getting triaged. Hysterics when anyone in scrubs walked by. THen sitting down quietly to eat take out they had brought to them. And seeing them walk out upright and smiling-faced after being seen. WHile me, and others, and the man who lost consciousness and hit his head after being told to just wait, are still in the waiting room. Disgusting. Man and wife beside me thought so too. And there were two other examples from that one day alone. I won't be that. WOrds should be enough. But they never are. So cutting is good. ANd starving is good. THey are louder than any words. Loudest when noticed on someone who had been considered normal beforehand. But still, loud enough on someone who's already got a psych history.I know deep down that doing it is wrong. I hate it, but (sorta) like at the same. Stupid. Maybe it just postpones sh*t though. Definately makes me uglier, so I should stop -- usually that's enough to help me not do it. But I'm so full of self-rage right now. IF I wasn't angry at myself I'd never stop crying ever.
I'll try and think of you, and you fighting, and helping. It sickens me to feel like I need to be like before. I don't want to be like before.((((LL))))) thanks for saying nice hair stuff. It's a really huge deal to me - for many reasons.
blove EL
Posted by caraher on February 13, 2007, at 17:15:05
In reply to Re: Not good » MidnightBlue, posted by ElaineM on February 13, 2007, at 15:39:04
> Sometimes I just can't get rid of the feeling that I don't belong here -- Like, in the world.If that were true, it would only be because the world doesn't deserve you. You're wonderful, kind, sensitive.
(((El)))
Posted by MidnightBlue on February 13, 2007, at 23:11:30
In reply to Re: Not good » MidnightBlue, posted by ElaineM on February 13, 2007, at 15:39:04
Elaine,
You said:
If suffering just had a deadline, then I could do it. I'm really really good at taking pain and emotional stuff too. I can take anything, if I know when it's gonna end. But an end doesn't come all the time to everyone. I've seen it happen that way. I don't want that to be me.
:(I GET that. I SO get that. :-( You are not alone and you most definitely belong here. Hang in there....spring is coming.
MB
Posted by philyra on February 14, 2007, at 16:44:55
In reply to Re: Not good » philyra, posted by ElaineM on February 13, 2007, at 15:12:39
Elaine - thinking of you today on Valentine's Day and knowing you were worried about today and the gift for your T. Wishing you strength to get through...did you manage to see LadyT?
your friendly valentine,
philyra
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