![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 3 to 27 of 51. Go back in thread:
Posted by JenStar on October 21, 2005, at 19:17:18
In reply to Counter-transference : a novel /, posted by fallsfall on October 21, 2005, at 18:00:36
hi falls,
The situation sounds quite difficult all around. But I have to say that I disagree with your therapist in one regard -- that about keeping therapy COMPLETELY private.You own your life, your emotions and your friends, not him -- and you should be able to talk to whomever you want about whatever you want. It's ironic because I was justing talking in a different thread about how it's OK to keep secrets from spouses and close friends, esp. if it's about therapy. But by the same token, you should be able to share all, too!
I'm not sure how much friends, Babble discussions and threads on-line change the course of a therapy. If they DO change it, well, that's life and it will have to be integrated into the therapy.
Therapy can't exist in a void, in a vacuum, in a black box -- it has to incorporate EVERYTHING about a person's life experiences. If you have close friends with whom it's helpful to discuss therapy, then you & your therapist needs to understand that and work with it.
At least, that is what I think! :)Sure, nobody can know what someone else's T, or mother, or spouse, or dog, is thinking at any given time. But by reading and offering conjecture and different opinions, I think we can expand our own breadth of ideas and expand out thinking. It gives more possibilities and helps us think about other points of view.
If you're using friend discussions as an exuse to backslide or steer away from difficult work, that could be brought up in the therapeutic setting. But if you just get ideas & support from the friends, hopefully the T can just ask you to keep an open mind -- don't take their ideas as "gospel" and always check with him if you're unsure about his motivations, thoughts, etc. The truth is, you're going to form your OWN opinions about him/his motivations regardless of whether you talk about it to friends or not. So if the friends "taint" the process, so you do yourself!
hmmmm. It's interesting. I'll be interested to see what others think about this!
Have you decided what you're going to do?
take care!
JenStar
Posted by fallsfall on October 21, 2005, at 20:45:45
In reply to Counter-transference : a novel /, posted by fallsfall on October 21, 2005, at 18:00:36
On Thursday, I started the session by saying that I hadn't figured out how to start the session. I knew that I should talk about Monday, but I really didn't want to. So I told him a couple of things that were going on. Like I have a new boss. I didn't say much, but then when I went silent he asked me more about my new boss. So I talked about that and about my daughter and about other trivial things. Things slowed down maybe 5 or 10 minutes before the end, and I brought up Monday. I was feeling like talking about my reaction to his counter-transference was unkind, so I had a hard time figuring out what to say. I also hadn't ever figured out how I DID feel about Monday, so it was kind of hard to tell him how I felt. Finally I got out that I had been confused and upset after Monday's session. He said that it sounded like something important for us to talk about, and that he did want to talk about it on Friday. Saved by the bell.
He then asked if I realized that I brought up this big topic when our time was just about up. And I admitted that I had been avoiding the topic for the whole session. But I knew that I wouldn't be able to avoid it on Friday, too since I had brought it up.
I went to work, but was distracted and had to do a bunch of stuff over again because I did it wrong the first time. My new boss was feeling more independent, and I think that was a blow to my ego, too.
I again refused to talk about what was going on in therapy with my friends. I didn't want to go against my therapist's wishes, and I didn't want my friends to criticize my therapist. It is OK for me to be angry at him, but I still want everyone else to think he's great.
Annierose's post about her session on Thursday resonated with me, and answering her post helped me to prepare to talk about all of this with my therapist on Friday morning.
Posted by Tamar on October 21, 2005, at 21:05:49
In reply to Chapter 2, posted by fallsfall on October 21, 2005, at 20:45:45
Ah yes. Big topics just before the end. Ideally the therapist remembers to nudge us into talking about it in the next session, but it doesn’t always work out that way (which is terribly disappointing, as well as being a huge relief). Or the next session ends up being very difficult.
I'm not criticising your therapist… but I sense there may be a chapter 3…
?
Tamar
Posted by Annierose on October 21, 2005, at 21:34:48
In reply to Chapter 2, posted by fallsfall on October 21, 2005, at 20:45:45
Falls -
I do think your T has your best interests at stake. And I understand where he is coming from as far as not sharing your therapy sessions with others. My T has asked about my interest in this site, what do I get out of it, etc. She hasn't made any comments (either way) but I do sense she would rather I not "dilute" the process. That being said, when a poster replies about something I've written and it doesn't ring true for me, I don't get all in a huff about it. I realize that they are not in the room with me and this is only my perspective, not my therapist's. And I have found support here and advice that has helped me move forward (thanks to you and others). Babble un-sticks me when I'm stuck and gives me courage to speak the truth.
So, what happened today? I'm confused. Did you talk about Thursday's session? I do agree with Tamar, Chapter 3? What note did today end on?
I'm with you on well-meaning friends criticizing our therapists ... only we can do that! And I do think your T is great. I've only known you a short time and you have grown in leaps and bounds. Your insights are dead-on. You are so thoughtful. I like your T.
Falls, I wish I knew what to say to help you feel better. Thank you for helping me.
Annie
Posted by gardenergirl on October 21, 2005, at 23:42:36
In reply to Re: Chapter 2 » fallsfall, posted by Annierose on October 21, 2005, at 21:34:48
Hi,
I've mentioned this to you, but I thought I'd post it (maybe I posted it once, too?) At any rate, my T also said that he thinks that talking about my therapy with others or posting about it might "bleed the transference" as in reduce the intensity of it or dilute it.I get his point. I really do. And the therapy we do is a lot about different transferences.
But I also know that I'm in a place now where I am starting to recognize transference reactions and even to interpret them before I get to my session. So I wind up telling him about what I experienced and what I think it means. I'm not always right, of course. ;)
But still, I do think there is a place for Babbling about therapy. Lott also thinks that women (and men) in therapy benefit from normalizing our experiences by talking to others.
I'm with annierose, too. If I read a reply and it doesn't really resonate with me, well, I consider it, along with others, and let go what doesn't fit. I do that with what my T says in therapy, too. Or at least I try to.
And falls, just one little thing to pick on, it's okay if your reaction to his reaction feels like it's unkind to you. It's honest. You don't pay him to be kind to him. Of course you also don't pay him to be your whipping boy. But it's good to share your reactions even if they might hurt him. Hmmm, as I write that, I see how it might be related to the criticism transference...you don't want to do that to him...what you experience?
And that is a great example of how I benefit from Babble. As I type things out, my brain is still associating, and I can get new ideas, etc.
Okay, back to feeling tired and dull. Flash of brilliance ha! :D is over for now.
I do think I understand to some extent your conflict about this.
(((falls)))gg
Posted by Annierose on October 22, 2005, at 7:29:08
In reply to Re: Chapter 2, posted by gardenergirl on October 21, 2005, at 23:42:36
Normalizing the experience ... yes, that's what babble does for me GG. I quickly learned that it's best not to talk with my girlfriends about therapy, they just don't get it, especially about my strong feelings for my T.
I also gain insight from others.
That's a good thing.
Posted by fallsfall on October 22, 2005, at 8:46:01
In reply to Re: Chapter 2 » gardenergirl, posted by Annierose on October 22, 2005, at 7:29:08
Yes, Chapter 3 is coming.
Thank you all for your thoughtful replies. I need to talk about this some more with all of you. But I procrastinated on getting up this morning (getting out of bed and showered took 1 1/2 hours) and I need to go to work.
There is also something going on here on a common theme of mine:
"Don't ask me to do your job as well as mine." This is coming up at home, at work, and in therapy all at the same time.Chapter 3 this evening. My school group is meeting this afternoon.
Posted by fairywings on October 22, 2005, at 15:02:03
In reply to Counter-transference : a novel /, posted by fallsfall on October 21, 2005, at 18:00:36
I understand what you're saying and I understand what your T is saying, but i wonder if some T's never talk about the things that bother them about clients, and if they don't how they deal with all of that inside themselves never uttering a word to anyone else.
i think i would be so much more inhibited about saying things or being completely honest if there weren't babble. i hold my cards so close to the vest, and ppl here make me feel validated, and like it's okay to say whatever i'm feeling. i would feel so alone and depressed if i didn't have other ppl to talk to about this stuff, ppl who understand, and have been there before. i can understand not wanting other ppl in the room during your stuff, but the fact is there are other ppl in your life, and other ppl who affect your life, thus your therapy.
i guess i'd never feel comfortable bringing babble up in therapy, so this issue won't ever be discussed with my T, so I won't know how he feels about it. I hope you two come to a comfortable conclusion to this.
fw
Posted by Poet on October 22, 2005, at 17:31:11
In reply to Counter-transference : a novel /, posted by fallsfall on October 21, 2005, at 18:00:36
Hi Falls,
I disagree with your therapist. Therapy should be about what the patient is comfortable talking about. Not what the therapist is comfortable hearing about.
You are censoring yourself if you can't discuss babble to your therapist when you need to. You are censoring yourself if you don't talk to us about your therapy when you need to.
Falls, put your needs first. Your therapist has to deal with his counter-transference, you should not be forced to tap dance around his issues.
I am certain that my therapist has some pretty major counter-transference going on with her realizing how much my sensory defenses are like her son's. She hasn't said *Poet, you've got to stop talking about it, because it really is getting to me how much you are like my child.* So she is obviously dealing with it and not censoring me. Then again she's probably thrilled that I am doing online research and bringing it in for her to read. And that I'm admitting that this thing seems to fit me.
Anyway, I don't want to rant or rag on your T, it's just that you seem to have so much anxiety over what is his issue. Your issues are what matters in therapy, not his.
Poet
Posted by fallsfall on October 22, 2005, at 18:14:05
In reply to Notes, posted by fallsfall on October 22, 2005, at 8:46:01
Friday's session was very disjointed. I hadn't figured out what I was feeling, so my thoughts were not in any kind of order. I knew that my feelings were intense, though.
It was hard to say that I was angry that he had counter-transference. I believe that it is a normal part of therapy, something to be managed. But I have some pretty intense anger over this (this is a clue that there is tranference going on on my part).
I brought Annierose's thread in to give him an example of what kinds of things are said on Babble, and how her post helped me gain insight into my own issues.
He was adamant that he wasn't telling me that I couldn't talk to you guys. And I know that he never has said that I can't. But I pointed out that he says "I don't think that it is helpful for you to talk to them about your therapy". How is this different from "Don't talk to them?". He can't mandate what I do or don't do - all he can do is influence me - so isn't "I don't think it is helpful..." influence?
So at this point he is saying "You CAN talk about your therapy on Babble, but it isn't helpful if other posters comment on the therapy". Well, what is the use of talking about if there can be no comments? And how am I supposed to make sure that you guys play by his rules? Isn't THAT the same as "Don't Post", as well?
He is trying to let me make the decision. I know that he is, but he obviously has a very strong opinion on the subject. And I feel like the only way to make progress on this is for him to figure out what Babble is and what we do and don't do here. But I can't TELL him to read Babble. I have told him that I would be happy if he did. Annierose's thread had URLs on it, so he could find Babble if he wanted to (Are you reading this???). I feel like he has preconceived ideas of what this place is, and that his judgements are based on that. But maybe I haven't given him a balanced picture of Babble. I KNOW that I, personally, wind up in the kinds of discussions that he doesn't like - and this is the issue I'm trying to work on. But we don't seem to be able to talk about what kind of "support" IS appropriate.
I tried to explain that if I can't talk to you guys that the time between Monday and Thursday is very long (as is Friday to Monday). He wanted me to leave the emotions raw between sessions. But I couldn't possibly function if I did that. I would be happy to not dilute things, but I have to be able to live between appointments. I do leave things raw between Thursday and Friday (and consequently my work really suffers on Thursday afternoons). But I can't do it with 2 full days between appointments.
I also think that I can't remember things unless I put them into words. This is why writing or talking is important to me. Just sitting by myself doesn't help me to understand what I'm feeling I have to talk about it. I suppose that one solution would be journalling, but for me, journalling has an audience. I have a hard time journalling for just myself. And he won't read my journalling (he wants me to tell him about it).
I was a bit agitated during the session, and I was glad that the therapist next door wasn't in her office. When it was time to stop I got up and almost ran out of his office. Because he was leaving me in a place with no good solutions. He said "You can talk about your therapy on Babble (but it isn't helpful for you to get suggestions or interpretations from anyone else)" What good is that? I hear a very mixed message from him. Almost like "I know that the right thing for me to say is that you can talk to whomever you want about your therapy, but I don't really believe that, so I'll tell you in such a way that you won't be able to say that I'm forbidding you from doing it, but at the same time you won't dare - so I get my way."
Posted by fallsfall on October 22, 2005, at 18:28:48
In reply to Re: Counter-transference : a novel / » fallsfall, posted by Tamar on October 21, 2005, at 18:37:40
> To what extent does his problem of your discussing therapy with other people constitute counter-transference?
His experiences at the hospital are coloring his responses to me. He is not objectively looking at my situation and assessing it. He is assuming that my situation is like the situation at the hospital and reacting to the situation at the hospital, rather than reacting to my actual situation. The degree of intensity in his reaction is out of proportion to my actual situation. It isn't that he can't/shouldn't object to me talking about therapy - the problem is the intensity of the objection and the lack of flexibility in discussing it.
>
> I think he’s made some valid points. It’s true that we’re never there in the room with other people and their therapists. But when people are upset they need to talk and therapists aren’t always there 24/7. So people talk about it with their friends, or they come to places like this.He seems to have a hard time reconciling my right to talk to others with his "need" for me not to (both from his own comfort's standpoint and from his believe that it is anti-therapeutic for me to talk to others about therapy.) Or at least I can't see how he is reconciling these two things.
>
> To be honest, I think Babble is a good place to thrash these things out, because almost inevitably someone will reply and say, “You need to talk about this with your therapist.” And with that encouragement, hopefully, the client will feel able to raise the issue in session. Friends who haven’t been in therapy may be less astute than Babblers!He does support the "You need to talk to your therapist", and also identifying when a patient is being harmed by their therapist. But I can't quite figure out how to allow those benefits without risking the "bad" stuff.
>
> One further thing: even if he admits there was some countertransference in his response, it probably doesn’t alter the fact that you experienced what you call ‘critical transference’. And perhaps you need to continue to talk about that, and he needs to listen. (He’ll probably hate me for saying that…)And we will continue to talk about the critical transference thing. Usually, it means that I am hearing criticism when there isn't any. In this case, I heard criticism and he agreed that he WAS being critical. It is OK for me to hear criticism that is there! So If I'm hearing critism that is there, it isn't transference on my part, it is accurately reading the situation.
>
> Just my two cents!
>
> Tamar
>
>Thanks for your thoughts, Tamar!
Posted by fallsfall on October 22, 2005, at 18:31:29
In reply to Re: Counter-transference : a novel /, posted by fallsfall on October 22, 2005, at 18:28:48
Posted by fallsfall on October 22, 2005, at 18:42:27
In reply to Re: Counter-transference : a novel / » fallsfall, posted by JenStar on October 21, 2005, at 19:17:18
Hi Jenstar,
I understand that he would like to be able to witness the emotions and changes that I go through - that is what he means when he says that he doesn't want things diluted. If I expend all of my anger while talking on Babble, and then walk into his office all cool, calm and collected, it is harder for him to understand me. But if he really wants to see it all, then he can come live at my house! I don't mind showing it all to him - but I can't just put things on hold between sessions.
I should also explain here that what brings this topic up is times when *I* am responding inappropriately to other people's therapy. I talk with him about what is appropriate and helpful for me, as a friend, to do in relation to MY friends' therapy. What I tend to do (get overinvolved, try to take control, try to "fix" their life) is not healthy for ME (and I know it). In trying to help me figure out what types of actions and reactions are healthy for me (in relation to other people's therapy), we also talk about other peoples' involvement in MY therapy.
And I still don't know the answer to that question. What IS appropriate and helpful for a friend to do?
He is accepting now, at least, that online relationships are real. So our discussion has moved from "What the board's relationship to therapy should be" to "What a friend's relationship to therapy should be". And he is trying very hard not to tell me that I *can't* talk to people (though he would be so much happier if I didn't).
Thanks for your response.
Posted by fallsfall on October 22, 2005, at 18:47:03
In reply to Re: Chapter 2 » fallsfall, posted by Annierose on October 21, 2005, at 21:34:48
So how do we survive between sessions if we don't talk about therapy with our friends? One would think that 3/week would be frequent enough so that it wouldn't be a problem. But since we DO go 3/week, the intensity is such that it seems to be a bigger problem.
I also find that if I haven't talked about therapy (or the current issue), that I spend 3/4 of the session trying to get back to where we left off. That seems really wasteful to me. If I've processed the previous session a bit, then I can summarize what I've learned and be off and running.
I like my therapist, too. Thanks.
Posted by fallsfall on October 22, 2005, at 18:47:53
In reply to Re: Chapter 2, posted by fallsfall on October 22, 2005, at 18:47:03
Posted by fallsfall on October 22, 2005, at 18:53:37
In reply to Re: Chapter 2, posted by gardenergirl on October 21, 2005, at 23:42:36
It just seems like such a waste of time if I'm not "working" on therapy between appointments. But as I write THAT I recall that there have been times when I have spent too much effort on therapy and not enough effort on living. But I do get satisfaction out of figuring something out and being able to report on it the next session. *I* want to come up with some of those great interpretations...
>And falls, just one little thing to pick on, it's okay if your reaction to his reaction feels like it's unkind to you. It's honest. You don't pay him to be kind to him. Of course you also don't pay him to be your whipping boy. But it's good to share your reactions even if they might hurt him. Hmmm, as I write that, I see how it might be related to the criticism transference...you don't want to do that to him...what you experience?
And I did tell him that I was angry even though it felt unkind. It was just difficult - uncomfortable. And yes, I think it is related to the critical transference issue... You are so smart.
So how DO we maintain the intensity while making progress on our own and surviving between sessions?
Posted by fallsfall on October 22, 2005, at 19:00:04
In reply to Re: Counter-transference : a novel / » fallsfall, posted by fairywings on October 22, 2005, at 15:02:03
I did mention to my therapist that I had avoided talking about Babble in the past because it seemed like an "unpopular" topic. And he said (as I expected him to) that it concerned him that there were things that I felt were "off limits" in therapy.
Why won't you talk about Babble? It is part of your life, right? Your therapist can help you better if you are open and honest (the whole truth...). What would he say about Babble? What would you tell him about it?
My therapist said that he doesn't use supervision often. But he did indicate that he does talk to collegues about things (including what they thought about online support groups). He's also married to a psychologist, so I would think that he might talk to her sometimes. I guess there is a difference between talking about a particular case and talking about general issues (that happen to be coming up in a particular case).
My therapist has proven to me that we WILL come to a comfortable conclusion. That he (and I) will work on it until we do. That IS a good feeling.
Posted by happyflower on October 22, 2005, at 19:13:32
In reply to Counter-transference : a novel /, posted by fallsfall on October 21, 2005, at 18:00:36
You know in the very beginning of my therapy, I told my T that I was getting very upset by some to the abuse stuff I was reading on the internet, not this site, but another one. He told me to stay away from those sites. I only mentioned one time to him that I talk about therapy and about him on a website, and not to take it too personally on what I say about him, if he was to discover it. We haven't talked about this since.
To me it isn't an isssue, I love the Babble friends of support. I feel it has helped me in therapy in a big way.
You know falls, this is what I think. It is your life, and you can do whatever you want to do about it. Your T can't tell you what to do. But maybe the only thing that I would change is discussing it with him. You know how he feels about it. Maybe he is feeling a little exposed or threatened about you talking about yourself and his therapy in a public form. I could be wrong though. I would just do what makes you feel good, and let him deal with his own problems! LOL I miss your posts, by the way. :)
Posted by fallsfall on October 22, 2005, at 19:21:23
In reply to Re: Counter-transference : a novel / » fallsfall, posted by Poet on October 22, 2005, at 17:31:11
Hey, Poet,
> I disagree with your therapist. Therapy should be about what the patient is comfortable talking about. Not what the therapist is comfortable hearing about.
Both my therapist and I agree with you. It isn't that he is uncomfortable talking about it - he thinks that it is unhelpful to the therapy.
>
> You are censoring yourself if you can't discuss babble to your therapist when you need to. You are censoring yourself if you don't talk to us about your therapy when you need to.
>
My previous response to Fairywings indicates that he WAS unhappy that I was censoring myself with him. I think that we always have to choose what is helpful and what is not helpful for us. Sometimes (except in therapy...) choosing not to talk about certain things to certain people is a wise choice.> Falls, put your needs first. Your therapist has to deal with his counter-transference, you should not be forced to tap dance around his issues.
He IS dealing with his counter-transference. But the point is that HIS counter-transference is affecting me, too. He is not perfect, and while he tries to figure out how to get it under control I have to figure out how to get through this period. I have every confidence that he WILL get it under control (though I have some misgivings about how much I will need to [or think I need to] help him to do that).
>
> I am certain that my therapist has some pretty major counter-transference going on with her realizing how much my sensory defenses are like her son's. She hasn't said *Poet, you've got to stop talking about it, because it really is getting to me how much you are like my child.*He isn't telling me not to talk about anything in therapy. He wants me to talk about everything in therapy.
>So she is obviously dealing with it and not censoring me. Then again she's probably thrilled that I am doing online research and bringing it in for her to read. And that I'm admitting that this thing seems to fit me.
Beware, Poet. Dinah was "helping" her therapist with survival after a hurricaine stuff - I wonder if she would recommend that approach.
>
> Anyway, I don't want to rant or rag on your T, it's just that you seem to have so much anxiety over what is his issue. Your issues are what matters in therapy, not his.My anxiety is because Babble is a coping mechanism for me, and I don't know quite what else I would do. But yes, his counter-transference is getting in the way (but isn't that the definition of counter-transference?). Hopefully we can get past it soon.
>
> PoetThanks for your thoughts,
Falls.
Posted by happyflower on October 22, 2005, at 19:33:36
In reply to Re: Counter-transference : a novel / » Poet, posted by fallsfall on October 22, 2005, at 19:21:23
I am sure you have a good T , but if he was dealing with his countertransference, than it wouldn't be affecting you. :) Just what I think.> He IS dealing with his counter-transference. But the point is that HIS counter-transference is affecting me, too. He is not perfect, and while he tries to figure out how to get it under control I have to figure out how to get through this period. I have every confidence that he WILL get it under control (though I have some misgivings about how much I will need to [or think I need to] help him to do that).
>
Posted by fallsfall on October 22, 2005, at 20:43:49
In reply to Re: Counter-transference : a novel / » fallsfall, posted by happyflower on October 22, 2005, at 19:13:32
> You know falls, this is what I think. It is your life, and you can do whatever you want to do about it. Your T can't tell you what to do.He isn't telling me what I can do. He is telling me what he thinks is helpful to me. He is well aware that it is my decision what I do.
But maybe the only thing that I would change is discussing it with him. You know how he feels about it. Maybe he is feeling a little exposed or threatened about you talking about yourself and his therapy in a public form.
I am SURE that NOT telling him about it is the wrong thing for me to do. Hiding things from him makes his job impossible - and that means that he can't help me. If I want him to help me then I have to be as honest as I can with him - whether he likes it or not.
I could be wrong though. I would just do what makes you feel good, and let him deal with his own problems! LOL
But what makes me feel good (i.e. what I have done in the past) hasn't worked in my favor. If it had, I wouldn't be here on Babble today. If my first instincts led me down the best path, I wouldn't need a therapist at all. I HAVE to try things that are outside of my comfort zone if anything in my life is going to be different.
I miss your posts, by the way. :)Thanks, Happyflower.
>
Posted by fallsfall on October 22, 2005, at 20:45:19
In reply to Re: Counter-transference : a novel / » fallsfall, posted by happyflower on October 22, 2005, at 19:33:36
(previous post for you, too)
>
>
> I am sure you have a good T , but if he was dealing with his countertransference, than it wouldn't be affecting you. :) Just what I think.I didn't say he was DONE dealing with his counter-transference................. 8^)
Posted by gardenergirl on October 22, 2005, at 23:47:24
In reply to Re: Chapter 2 » gardenergirl, posted by fallsfall on October 22, 2005, at 18:53:37
> *I* want to come up with some of those great interpretations...
And you know what? Doing that is a very healthy thing. My T was kind of funny when he said that my interpretation enlightened him, and that I had made it first and then said, "but it's not a competition." I said that I thought it was good that I was starting to figure stuff out on my own. Yes, it takes the intensity down in our sessions, but it's what I will need to be able to do more for myself when I no longer can see him. It's actually kind of nice not to cry through the entire sesssion every time now, and when I do start to, it is a big clue about something.
>
> And I did tell him that I was angry even though it felt unkind. It was just difficult - uncomfortable. And yes, I think it is related to the critical transference issue... You are so smart.:) I'm glad you did that. Good for you.
>
> So how DO we maintain the intensity while making progress on our own and surviving between sessions?That's the $64,000 question (or has it gone way up with inflation and all?) :)
I know that the time I had that really bad session and wasn't able to see him for a week, it was very very helpful to be able to process it here. I could have tried to go in earlier, but I admit I was afraid to call, and then logistically it was too hard and then too late. This is actually the time he mentioned Babble and diluting transference.
Okay wait a minute. I'm getting big emotionally intense events mixed up. It was actually the birthday fiasco just after the Babble party when this came up. I emailed him my first post when I really let all the raw hurt and stuff out. And I told him that I had been sobbing on the phone with Racer that evening. (really really sobbing...I think I scared her for a minute.)
And I think that I had worked thru some of the emotions by the time I was able to see him, and so perhaps it was less "gratifying" to him that he didn't get all the intense and "juicy" emotion, but instead a watered down version? We still talked and talked about it, and that was very helpful. He still had insights and interpretations that I had not come up with yet.
I don't know. I think maybe we need to do what's best for ourselves. If we post a lot and find that we are starting to see things one-sided based on others' responses, maybe we need to rein it in. But if we take what we learn from on Babble, and put it together with what we learn in therapy, and take the best, toss the stuff that's not relevant...that seems like a very useful and healthy way to approach it.
Kind of like when I post a dream. I do that because I think it's interesting to hear what others react to in the dream. But ultimately, I still know it's what it means to me that's most important. I appreciate and think about what others say, and some of it influences my thinking by broadening it, making me reflect, etc. But we can't go by any one person's opinion or any one general way of thinking. At least to me, that's less adaptive and healthy.
What a tough question. I kind of have a gut, abstract feeling of what it would feel like to balance this well, but I can't describe it.
Not to talk too much about DBT, but it's a "wise mind" place, I think.
Take care,
gg
Posted by daisym on October 23, 2005, at 0:35:52
In reply to Re: Chapter 2 » fallsfall, posted by gardenergirl on October 22, 2005, at 23:47:24
I've been thinking and thinking about this. I think what I've come up with is that I use babble to help me survive therapy and I use therapy to help me survive my life.
It took me a long time to figure out what was happening to me between sessions. I think my first post here was about feeling emotions after sessions instead of during. I needed babble to make sense of the theraputic process. But I don't typically (though I do sometimes) use babble for my "issues" -- like whether I should stay or go in my marriage, etc. I like support around the issues though, don't get me wrong. More, I like sorting out my interactions with my therapist and all these needs and reactions to him I'm having.
I guess I'd consider babble both soul soothing and courage building. If I can figure out how to write it down, I can figure out how to say it during a session. Sometimes I need a push toward saying it during sessions. Sometimes I need reassurance that it was OK that I DID say it during a session.
Does it dilute the transference? I guess it is impossible for me to figure that out since I see my therapist so much. If it does, I need it to. What I know happens is that I will talk about a subject I've written about and his questions and interpretations typically take us down a road I haven't gone yet.
Someone wrote that their therapist told them to stop visiting sites that were upsetting. Mine has done the same thing. But by bringing him my fears about what I read, we are able to talk about what I think will happen to me. I do talk about "the board" in therapy -- he sometimes asks if I'm ever given a hard time here about the frequency of my sessions or my dependency, because I struggle with those things -- but he also asks if hearing from others normalizes my experiences for me. Especially about being in parts and pieces. And about therapy taking years and years for some of us. But then again, he has benefitted directly from my participation here, having been alerted to a potentially dangerous situation. So I think he may have a different understanding about what we do for each other.
Lastly I will say this: a good deal of my therapy has focused on allowing myself to feel needy, to reach out for help and to not keep so many secrets. If I felt I couldn't talk about what was going on behind that door, if I felt it needed to be completely private, it would be another secret I was keeping. I still don't do these things much in my "real" life -- but the freedom of being so honest here has been truly healing.
I have great faith you will sort all this out between you.
(((Fallsfall)))
Posted by Annierose on October 23, 2005, at 7:45:26
In reply to Chapter 3, posted by fallsfall on October 22, 2005, at 18:14:05
Falls -
Everything makes sense from both sides of the couch. Maybe he underestimates how much we support each other and he is afraid of someone saying "you shouldn't be having those types of feelings, sounds too intense, leave." He doesn't want some unknown person to tell you what to do with these feelings. Luckily, most of us are here because we do have intense feelings about something ... a lot of us have feelings about our therapists, whether it's described as attachment, dependency, love, etc. And more often than not, we truly understand what another poster is describing, and help them bring these thoughts into the therapy room.
I'm not sure if my T knows the name of this site. I figure, I am myself here. There is nothing I have written that eventually doesn't make its way into therapy ... well, not some babblemail thoughts : -)
We need you here Falls. I love reading what you have to say. And I'm flattered that you brought in my post.
Now we are off to pick some pumpkins, sip cider, chow on doughnuts. Yum.
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