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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by pinkeye on April 27, 2005, at 12:57:24
For those of you who have been following my threads.. I need to vent this out and process it.
Anyway, I realized today that none of the feelings that I have had are really about my ex T. Maybe a tiny bit of it has to do with him, but almost all of them have to do with my father.. My new T is really very wise in pointing that out to me. For many years, my father almost treated me like a surrogate wife - not physically, but emotionally. And it had got me all confused about emotional intimacy. I got confused and was behaving like a wife for my father - not in a physical sense, but emotionally, I was providing him all the emotional companionship and intimacy he needs. And I got myself totally confused and angry at myself for feeling the way I was feeling.
My new T is now saying that I need some clarification now - from my dad. As to whether I was imagining all this and was to be blamed or whether he was really doing it. She says she is 100 % confident that my father was responsible for the ways that I got confused.
She says I am just replaying the scenario and getting hurt with my ex T, becuase it is much easier to project all the feelings towards him than my father. And I remember feeling like I want my T to admit me he likes me - an admission which I really should have got from my dad - that he was trying to get his emotional needs met from me, when he really shouldn't have done that.
And I think that makes perfect sense.
Posted by Dinah on April 27, 2005, at 13:19:51
In reply to Confusing my ex T with my dad?, posted by pinkeye on April 27, 2005, at 12:57:24
My dad did that too. I'm pretty sure I liked it. He took care of me in return.
He yelled at me, but he didn't let anyone else but my mother yell at me. I know he loved me more than anyone in the world, including my mother (who he really didn't like so that's not saying much).
You didn't like it?
My father never told me he loved me until the last month before he died. He laughed at my accomplishments. (Don't fall down walking up the stairs to give your valedictory address. You know what a klutz you are.) That sounds worse than it actually was. But I knew he loved me, because he *did* loving things for me. It wasn't until the last few months of his life that he turned his razor edged tongue on me, and that hurt.
I really never saw it as a problem.
Posted by pinkeye on April 27, 2005, at 13:40:10
In reply to Re: Confusing my ex T with my dad? » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on April 27, 2005, at 13:19:51
I didn't see it as a problem so far as well. I thought I was the most loved daughter in the whole world and didn't really think anything bad of it.
But now I am realizing that he didn't love me just as a daughter. He treated me more like his wife. My mother was pretty much a dummy figure in our family. It was all about me and my father.
Wherever he went - movies, restaurants, friends places - he would take me with him and not my mom. He would talk 1000 times more with me than he would talk with my mom. And I was always with him in the house, and my mother will be at the back with the servants. And I hate to admit it, several days, I used to sleep in the same bed with my dad, when my mother would sleep separately. Thankfully, there was no sexual abuse, and my father really didn't mean things in the way. He thought he was raising up a daughter in the best possible way.
But guess what it did to me? Till I was 9 or 10 I was really ok with that approach and didn't think anything of it. But once I attained puberty, and started developing interest in sex and other things, I easily confused my father for my man.. I was behaving like a wife to him and thinking I should satisfy him and noone else.. For nearly 7 - 8 years, I was constantly looking after him, will serve him food, will go out everywhere with him - to movies, restaurants everywhere. All our relatives even used to comment to my dad to not spoil me so much - but my father didn't understand it. And I didn't understand what they meant either at that time.
Love is not a bad thing, and affection and caring is good, but when it is not very appropriate it confuses the child.
And that is what happened to me.. For several years, I couldn't really imagine myself as a growm woman, and couldn't think of myself as a full grown woman capable of being with another man. I ended up never being able to form a good relationship with anybody other than my fahter.. And even now, I feel I am betraying my father when I am physically intimate wiht my husband. And I am not able to be emotionally intimate with my husband - like a grown woman should be able to. And I have always been attracted to men who are in the authority figure role - like my ex Doctor, who isn't really available to me, just repeating the same pattern that I had with my father.
Sorry it turned out to be so long. Didn't intend it to be. But I really needed to get this off of my chest to be able to heal and move on.
God help me if ever my father gets to read what I have written. I will not be able to live with myself. But this is the truth. And my theraist says that all the anger that I feel, I have turned into my body and my joints. That is why I even have rheumatoid arthrits. And she is right, I have felt lot of anger towards myself and my body.
Posted by Dinah on April 27, 2005, at 13:44:13
In reply to Re: Confusing my ex T with my dad? » Dinah, posted by pinkeye on April 27, 2005, at 13:40:10
Your therapist thinks your rheumatoid arthritis is caused by anger?
My father was like that too, except for the part about bed. I don't see that my other problems are related to that. I just miss it.
Posted by pinkeye on April 27, 2005, at 13:54:27
In reply to Re: Confusing my ex T with my dad? » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on April 27, 2005, at 13:44:13
Yes she thinks it definitely has to do with my anger. She thinks I am just now allowing myself to feel the anger towards my dad, and I am just turning it all in - into my own body.
And I have really felt it.. when I feel very angry and stressed, my pain shoots up to the sky. When I am calm, the pain is almost non existent.
Maybe pathologically, I am predisposed to Rheumatoid arhtriits - but the flaring up is definitely due to anger.
Maybe the reason you have so many physical ailments is possible due to the same reason ?? Think about it.
It doesn't sound too bad I know. Lot of people go through it. But I was also an only child, and my family was kind of secluded from others. So I really didn't have a chance to understand things in a better way when I was growing up. And the kind of intimacy I shared with my father was almost a public knowledge. All my relatives used to comment that - that I was so extremely close to my father, that I was all the time with him, that we leave our mother out.. I never thought anything about it at that time. But now I am realizing it was a huge mistake on my father's part. Maybe if I had a sibling, or other close ties, I would have been able to come out of it being able to grow up. But my fahter was the only close relationship that I had - till I was about 20 - 21. So, I was more affected. Plus my dad was extremely physcially affectionate - for a long long time. Will hug me very closely allt he time, sleep in the same bed hugging me closely etc. He will make me sit on his lap till I was nearly 20 - 21.. My husband got mad when he saw my fahter sleeping on the same bed hugging me once even after I was married. At that time, I got mad with my husband, but now I am realizing how inappropriate my father's actions were. And I really tried to avoid my dad after I attained puberty. I would try to push him away, but he always convinced me that he was jsut my father. I remember that very well. And my mother didn't really object to it.
Anyway, the only thing that still saves me is the fact that my dad loved me the most. These are definitely mistakes on his part, but at the end of the day, he meant well. So that is what makes me still love him a lot.
Posted by Dinah on April 27, 2005, at 13:59:59
In reply to Re: Confusing my ex T with my dad? » Dinah, posted by pinkeye on April 27, 2005, at 13:54:27
My dad didn't do the physical stuff. I think we only hugged (awkwardly) when one of us was going on a trip or into the hospital. Maybe that made all the difference.
I think I'm diabetic because I'm too fat for someone who has a genetic propensity. And I do eat in part because of stress and anxiety.
The kidney stones were probably my horrendous diet lately. :) Which was because of work stress.
IBS and migraine have a definite psychological aspect.
I think indirectly in some cases and directly in others stress and anxiety exacerbate my health problems.
Posted by pinkeye on April 27, 2005, at 14:05:03
In reply to Re: Confusing my ex T with my dad?, posted by Dinah on April 27, 2005, at 13:59:59
Yeah, I hate to admit, but there was a LOT of inappropriate physical closeness. There was no sexual abuse - my fahter would never ever do it - he is a very good man, but there was a lot of inappropriate hugging, kissing and physical closeness - mostly due to unawareness. But it confused me nevertheless.
It is actually still not all that bad. It hasn't left me very damaged. Thankfully, I have some very good capacity to heal, and maybe I will be fine after a few months of therapy. My new T is amazing in this aspect.
Posted by PM80 on April 27, 2005, at 14:39:50
In reply to Re: Confusing my ex T with my dad? » Dinah, posted by pinkeye on April 27, 2005, at 14:05:03
>> Thankfully, I have some very good capacity to heal, and maybe I will be fine after a few months of therapy. My new T is amazing in this aspect.
GREAT! You sound as though you have a lot of personal insight. That is such a great quality.
My father also leaned on me emotionally. I am the middle child of 3. I was always his least favorite (though it was not exceedingly obvious, just enough that I got that sense). Or maybe because I was an overachiever he felt like he didn't measure up when he was a child or something. Maybe it's hard to feel like a father-figure to a kid that can accomplish much without you. I was always strong-willed and generally competent. I don't know. Anyway, my mom died when I was 16. Then I suddenly became the[his] best, strongest, most helpful daughter. I cooked dinner, took care of my brother (made sure he did his homework, picked him up from practices, went clothes and school shopping, scheduled doctor's appointment, ect.), helped a lot with housework, maintained my grades and school activities, provided emotional support for my dad, and was a very agreeable mediator between the people in my family. Also, probably adding to this equation, my mother and I were a lot alike in personality. My dad was not really ever there for me. But he did like to brag about me, so I guess that felt nice. So I went from one side to the other at exactly the time my mother got sick and died. He still leaned on me when I went away to college and it felt like a weight tied around my waist. Talk about the old ball and chain! That is what it felt like. He "needed" me and I wanted to run as far away as possible. I still am dealing with all the consequences of the situation. My T and I have talked about it.
Posted by pinkeye on April 27, 2005, at 14:50:24
In reply to Re: Confusing my ex T with my dad?, posted by PM80 on April 27, 2005, at 14:39:50
I got the sense about that from your posts before PM80 - that you have been a strong woman. And now you just confirmed my sense. :-)
I have been a high achiever also. But sometimes I feel, I have been running away from my dad - I am really scared of being close to home - where I haev to take up his emotional neediness along with my husband's. As it is when I am in a different country, they have so much of problem with each other and I have to act like an emotional medaitor between them, and I am afraid if I go back and stay close to my dad, my dad will come to depend a lot more on me. And I won't be able to handle two man in my life.
Posted by PM80 on April 27, 2005, at 15:35:15
In reply to Re: Confusing my ex T with my dad? » PM80, posted by pinkeye on April 27, 2005, at 14:50:24
This is a legitmate fear. It will be a very real weight on you. Talk with your t about the implications of moving back to India (it is india, right?). What can you do to preserve your own emotional stability? You do have that right. Always. Even if it means that someone else must meet their needs elsewhere. My t and I have discussed boundaries many times. Somewhere there exists a workable solution (not perfect, but workable).
We sound a lot alike in some ways. I have felt many of the emotions that you have described in your posts. You will be okay in the end.
Posted by Tamar on April 27, 2005, at 16:14:21
In reply to Confusing my ex T with my dad?, posted by pinkeye on April 27, 2005, at 12:57:24
It sounds as if you've been having some very important insights about your ex-T and your father. Congratulations on making so much progress.
I was interested to learn a little about your mother. Do you ever talk with your T about her? If your relationship with your father was so close, perhaps you missed out on some important parenting from your mother? Just a thought.
Tamar
Posted by pinkeye on April 27, 2005, at 16:52:17
In reply to Re: Confusing my ex T with my dad?, posted by PM80 on April 27, 2005, at 15:35:15
Thanks PM80. I have spoken to my T about this. (From here onwards T refers to my current T and not to my ex T anymore. Haha..for the first time I am bonding with my current T and letting go of my ex T. So far I still used to think of him as my T and not the current one. :-))
And I think if I keep working on it, and get a T once I go back, I should be able to deal with it.
Hope I will be ok in the end. Thanks. I think certain problems in life leads to certain type of personalities and emotions. There must be a pattern.. people with this type of fathers grow up to have these emotions etc. That must be where you are able to identify with me.
Posted by pinkeye on April 27, 2005, at 16:54:05
In reply to Re: Confusing my ex T with my dad? » pinkeye, posted by Tamar on April 27, 2005, at 16:14:21
Thank you Tamar. I pretty much don't have anything to talk about my mother. As I said, she was almost non existent in our family.. I feel sorry for her now and have been trying to build more relationship with her for a few years now. But nowhere near what I have with my dad. I think of her as warm and affectionate, mostly scared and pitiable. Hmm. I should really focus a lot more on her I think. Now I am much better, before I used to ignore her.
Posted by Dinah on April 27, 2005, at 18:45:19
In reply to Re: Confusing my ex T with my dad? » Dinah, posted by pinkeye on April 27, 2005, at 14:05:03
Perhaps because touching wasn't a part of our relationship, I never really felt like an ersatz wife. I think one message I got was that daughters were more important than wives. And that the other message I got was that you were loved for how good you were. I was smart and honest and Daddy could trust me with everything and talk to me about anything. While you can't really talk to Mother because of things like she won't admit there's a possibility that Bill Clinton didn't have scores of people killed. And she was sure the monthly checks to the phone company were actually to one of Daddy's relatives because his initials were the same as the acronym for the phone company. And he couldn't trust her because she stole money from her kids and forged his name on loan documents. And kept every newspaper we ever got after he mentioned that too many newspapers were piling up.
I may have gotten the idea that to be loved you had to be good.
Posted by annierose on April 27, 2005, at 20:21:01
In reply to Re: Confusing my ex T with my dad? » Tamar, posted by pinkeye on April 27, 2005, at 16:54:05
I find your family dynamic so interesting, and way different from what I experienced.
Are your parents still married? And do you talk with your mother? Is she happy?
Posted by pinkeye on April 27, 2005, at 20:32:12
In reply to Re: Confusing my ex T with my dad? » pinkeye, posted by annierose on April 27, 2005, at 20:21:01
I talk with my mother on the phone everyday. She and my dad are in a different country, and I am in a different country. I call up home everyday, but inevitably end up talking only a few sentences to her, and talking all the rest of the time to my dad.
I really feel sorry for my mom. And my dad used to explicitly tell me several times to not talk to my mom, and instead come and talk to him.. he used to tell me that she doesn't know anything. And I was really scared of my dad and wanted to please him, so I think I ended up just ignoring her all together growing up.
They are still married. Divorce is not very common in my country. And besides my mother really didn't have any other go. So poor thing, she just put up with whatever my father did. And I know how much injustice he had done to her. She doesn't fight back at all. She just bears everything in silence.
I am very affectionate twoards her, even though I don't talk to her that much or share a lot of things with her. And recently, my father is also changed somewhat - ever since I left my home and came out. He is trying to be affectionate towards her also. So she is little happy now. She was not at all happy when I was in the house. Thanks for asking.
Posted by annierose on April 28, 2005, at 5:08:44
In reply to Re: Confusing my ex T with my dad? » annierose, posted by pinkeye on April 27, 2005, at 20:32:12
Thank you for sharing. Such a sad story. I wonder what you're mom was feeling during your your life. It sounds as if she didn't have a voice.
I don't have high opinions of my mother, but it's completely different. My T said that it wasn't that she was depressed, it's way worse. Not sure what she is alluding to. I'll need to ask today. By choice, my mom didn't participate in our family. Always sick, always tired, always had a headache. Very much the same today.
It's interested how we all end up growing up despite it all. I'm just so thankful I sought therapy earlier in my life (early 20's) to work out some of that pain. Now I can make different choices for my children. And I'm a much happier mother. But I'm now back in therapy to finish that work.
Posted by Dinah on April 28, 2005, at 5:24:09
In reply to Re: Confusing my ex T with my dad? » pinkeye, posted by annierose on April 28, 2005, at 5:08:44
> By choice, my mom didn't participate in our family. Always sick, always tired, always had a headache.
My son will probably say that about me someday. Maybe add always working. :(
Posted by Dinah on April 28, 2005, at 5:33:07
In reply to Re: Confusing my ex T with my dad? » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on April 27, 2005, at 18:45:19
I'm sorry I wrote that. I'm not quite myself these days. My mother had many fine and useful qualities. She taught me what it means to be a good person.
Posted by annierose on April 28, 2005, at 6:21:24
In reply to Re: Confusing my ex T with my dad?, posted by Dinah on April 28, 2005, at 5:33:07
No need to apologize. You didn't write about your mother Dinah, you wrote something about yourself. Which isn't true, by the way. In your posts, you always write with your son in your heart.
My mother didn't even leave the house for a period over a few years. Didn't put us to bed, read stories, do homework, color or have fun. When we went on vacation, she would stay behind in the hotel room, or come along, just to carry our coats (so it seemed). No, Dinah, you are not this type of mother.
On the other hand, my father worked 7 days a week, and there were 5 children in my family. I often tell my T I raised myself. She finally agreed last session that indeed I did. I think I did a decent job of it. Would have been nice to have some help. That's probably why I value my T so much. Finally, some support!!
Posted by pinkeye on April 28, 2005, at 14:01:11
In reply to Re: Confusing my ex T with my dad? » pinkeye, posted by annierose on April 28, 2005, at 5:08:44
My mom was forced to be helpless by my dad. He was so overpowering, and was a big man and frightened her. She couldn't do anything else other than be like what is she. I am amazed that she even managed to keep herself a warm and loving person and still affectionate towards my dad. And she didn't understand my father, and didn't know how to meet his needs. She just resigned herself to be just affectionate to me and my dad and let the other things taken care of by my dad. My dad was basically a good man at heart, except now I realize he was extremely agitated, and learnt so many things which he didn't know how to make proper sense out of. He didn't know how to integrate all that he learnt and make a good family out of it. Instead he tried to just force all the bits and pieces of his learning onto me and my mom, and that terribly hurt both me and my mom.
Posted by annierose on April 28, 2005, at 14:34:28
In reply to Re: Confusing my ex T with my dad? » annierose, posted by pinkeye on April 28, 2005, at 14:01:11
It's amazing to look back and see our family situations through adult eyes. It's incredible how we all survive and make sense out of some difficult situaions.
I just feel so blessed to be able to afford therapy to figure all of this out. And to work with the therapist that I do.
Your mom must have a lot of inner strength. And I think you do too.
Posted by pinkeye on April 28, 2005, at 21:18:58
In reply to Re: Confusing my ex T with my dad? » pinkeye, posted by annierose on April 28, 2005, at 14:34:28
I used to think my mom was pretty weak. But now I think she is amazingly a strong woman.
I don't know about me though. Sometimes I am strong, sometimes I just crumble.
This is the end of the thread.
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