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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by All Done on March 13, 2004, at 0:56:39
Hi Everyone,
I was telling my T that sometimes I feel he doesn't "get" me. He wanted to take some of the responsibility for this, but, as usual, I would not allow such a thing. It must be my fault since there are things I have not shared with him. It's quite unfair of me to expect him to get me if I haven't provided him with the main tool he uses to understand me. (Gosh, I exhaust myself just *writing* like this, sometimes. Living it is another story.)
So, I felt the need to start a list of things I haven't shared with him, but think I probably should share. Unfortunately, there are more items than I care to admit. Some are probably more important than others, but they are all important in one way or another, so I figure I should share them all.
My question is, should I dump them on him all at once by reading the entire list to him or should I just address one issue at a time? I think the latter option seems the most sensible, but my concern is that I will get sidetracked in subsequent sessions and I'll never get through even half the list.
Any thoughts or suggestions?
Thanks,
All Done
Posted by Dinah on March 13, 2004, at 1:49:22
In reply to Sharing with T, posted by All Done on March 13, 2004, at 0:56:39
Hmmm... How about a compromise. Share the existance of the list with him, but tackle them one by one. Keep the list in your wallet, and check them off as you go along. If you get sidetracked for a while, don't worry about it, just bring up another item when it seems right?
I guess I suggest that one from personal experience. I keep a stash of therapy topics at hand, and often can't get to them all when I'd like to.
Posted by cubic_me on March 13, 2004, at 9:37:33
In reply to Re: Sharing with T » All Done, posted by Dinah on March 13, 2004, at 1:49:22
Could you give or read him the list but then address one topic at a time? That will mean that your T will know if there are still things that you want to discuss and he may be able to bring topics up that you find difficult.
Posted by mair on March 13, 2004, at 13:46:17
In reply to Sharing with T, posted by All Done on March 13, 2004, at 0:56:39
Do you have this list because these are things you haven't been able to talk about or have simply forgotten to talk about? Definitely it would be the former for me. If it's the latter, keeping the list and raising lone issue at a time as there is time might work. If you're like me and consciously or unconsciously avoid certain topics, I'd dump the whole list on him (or her) at once. I'd never be able to maintain enough courage over a long enough time period to cover the list.
On a couple of occasions in the past, I've made a statement as I'm leaving, like "ask me about ______ next time" I would be referring to something I knew I should talk about but couldn't raise myself. Once my therapist had a hint about what that "issue" was, she'd raise it. It was just easier for me to answer her questions than it was for me to initiate the discussion.
But this is just me.
Mair
Posted by terrics on March 13, 2004, at 16:21:31
In reply to Sharing with T, posted by All Done on March 13, 2004, at 0:56:39
I would just hand it to him. terrics
Posted by All Done on March 14, 2004, at 0:03:38
In reply to Sharing with T, posted by All Done on March 13, 2004, at 0:56:39
Thanks for the suggestions, everyone!
I've thought about it some more and while I would love to just give the list to my T and let him read it, he will never go for that. He makes me read everything I write and even tried once to get me to read something my mom wrote to me (that didn't happen). The only thing he didn't ask me to read was my Christmas card to him. Interestingly enough, though, I would have read that one with no problem. I meant and felt every word I wrote. But I digress...
I think I'm going to tell him about the list and then guess what we'll do? We'll talk about how we should handle it :). I have faith that he'll work with me to make me feel comfortable about when to share (as well as what I'm sharing).
Thanks again for all of your thoughts and advice! I really appreciate having you guys here.
All Done
Posted by All Done on March 14, 2004, at 0:16:47
In reply to Re: Sharing with T » All Done, posted by mair on March 13, 2004, at 13:46:17
Mair,
To answer your question, I would say more of the items are issues that I've been avoiding and I completely understand what you mean about maintaining enough courage to talk about everything. Sometimes I spend the entire week thinking about telling him something and when I get there, I just can't. I guess I am really hoping that he'll at least look at or hear everything on the list so I can get his take of what the "important" stuff is. But he *always* leaves it up to me what we talk about each week. So, I can't imagine him bringing any of the items up before I do even if I ask him to.
Sigh. It's so hard sometimes.
All Done
Posted by DaisyM on March 14, 2004, at 13:48:04
In reply to Re: Sharing with T » mair, posted by All Done on March 14, 2004, at 0:16:47
I bet if you really think about it, your Therapist does bring up/out things you might avoid in some ways. You bring up the topic but I've noticed if there are things I stay away from (my mother) he will bring it (her) back into the discussion in subtle ways. I've stopped a few times and demanded, "How did we get here?!" because the conversation did NOT go in the direction I intended (i.e. - staying away from the hard stuff.
So I think showing/reading the list will cue him to watch for the emergent of these subjects and openings to bring them out. It will be valuable to you and to him. I'm impressed with your willingness to consider making such a list. It is very brave to commit those things to paper.
Let us know how it goes.
-D
Posted by All Done on March 16, 2004, at 16:00:07
In reply to Re: Sharing with T, posted by DaisyM on March 14, 2004, at 13:48:04
Sorry, Daisy. I don't know how I missed your post until now.
> I bet if you really think about it, your Therapist does bring up/out things you might avoid in some ways.
I've really looked for this in the past and I do find him doing it on occasion, but sometimes, I'm saying to myself, "now would be a good time to talk about xxx. Why doesn't he ask me about it?" I suppose these are the times I need to muster up my courage to talk.
>I'm impressed with your willingness to consider making such a list. It is very brave to commit those things to paper.
Thanks, Daisy, but writing it down was easy. Actually, the list is pretty long. I don't really think it should be so long. I wish I had the courage to talk about some of these things sooner. Unfortunately, I can already feel whatever courage I had a few days ago dwindling. Why do I get so nervous about talking to him? I have butterflies for crying out loud and my appointment isn't until Saturday. Ugh!
Oops! I didn't mean to rant. (Well, okay, maybe a little bit ;).)
Thanks for your post and I'm going to try to keep in mind what you said about the list being valuable. I think it will be, too, I just have to get over the first hurdle.
Thanks,
All Done
Posted by DaisyM on March 19, 2004, at 15:04:36
In reply to Re: Sharing with T » DaisyM, posted by All Done on March 16, 2004, at 16:00:07
You under-estimate yourself, I think. Writing it down IS hard. It also shows how self-aware you are. Courage is a fleeting thing, so don't be so hard on yourself. It is self-preservation to step out of the way of an oncoming truck, so side-stepping painful issues is understandable.
I think I want to ask my Therapist about that "we'll come back to it" thing as well...He often says, "we should talk more about this" but I have two or three things I haven't gone back to and yes, I am consciously avoiding them. I don't know if he is waiting for me to bring them up, or if he will eventually. It's not like there isn't tons of other stuff to deal with!
I also think the Butterflies represent how important this list is to you. You are taking a big step in trusting so much to your Therapist...of course you are nervous! The investment we make when we identify what feels like a really important insight or topic is huge... I sometimes think, "what if he thinks this is silly?" Or, (gasp!) what if I'm WRONG?!
My Therapist always asks me how I could be wrong about something being important to me, because if I think it is, it is in some way. There might be more to it than I see, but it IS important.
So allow yourself the freedom to think it is OK to feel nervous and it isn't childish or weak or anything but a correct response to a stressful situation. You will get through it and it will move you forward.
Please let me know how it goes. I will be out shoe shopping on Saturday but I'll think of you.
Daisy
Posted by All Done on March 19, 2004, at 16:06:13
In reply to Re: Sharing with T » All Done, posted by DaisyM on March 19, 2004, at 15:04:36
Okay, Daisy! Thank you for all of your support and encouragement, but I really want to go shoe shopping with you instead :)! I desperately want to find some new sandals for summer!
Seriously, though, thank you. I'm going to try my best to share as much as I can. It's been a kind of difficult week and, unfortunately, I'm thinking there's no way I can just give him the list. Even if I only share it's existence with him, I have to consider that an accomplishment, I think. I will talk to him about how nervous I am about sharing these things. In our last session, we touched on the topic of my trust in him and I think we need to explore that a little further as well. I want to trust him, but I think sometimes I just don't :(.
I'll let you know how it goes and have fun shoe shopping! And don't forget - I'm an extremely narrow, but (ugh!) long 9 1/2 and nothing in white for me! ;)
All Done
Posted by DaisyM on March 19, 2004, at 18:27:03
In reply to Re: Sharing with T » DaisyM, posted by All Done on March 19, 2004, at 16:06:13
First, take the list with you. Put it in your pocket, or whatever.
Second, promise yourself you will *just* tell him that the list exists. That's it. Baby steps.
I think a discussion of trust will naturally come out of this disclosure, or the disclosure (about the list) will follow a discussion of there being a list.
And, if for some reason, you keep it in your pocket the whole time and don't mention that you've made it, that is OK too. This is all a process. I would just like to remind you that part of the anxiety is letting him know about what is on your list. If you get past bringing it up, some of that anxiety may ease off.
Do what feels comfortable in the moment. And I'll look for some red sandels to make you feel better.
Cyber-hugs.
Daisy
Posted by All Done on March 22, 2004, at 0:41:55
In reply to Sharing with T, posted by All Done on March 13, 2004, at 0:56:39
Well, of course I started my session on Saturday with all things *not* pertaining to my list. Ugh! As a matter of fact, I didn't even have the courage to bring the list with me. I suppose that didn't really matter, though. I have it just about memorized. But I did have a difficult week and we were able to discuss some pretty important things, so I wasn't feeling like I was wasting the session.
About 40 minutes into the session, though, my T was asking about my ability to function with my son, husband, house, etc. when I get stressed out with work. I mentioned that my house is a disaster. He asked if we have a cleaning person and this happens to be a sore spot between my husband and me. Ten minutes later (!) we're still talking about ways to get my husband to agree to a cleaning person. Perhaps my T has some neat-freak counter transference issues as there is no way I wanted to spend ten minutes on this topic, but anyway, the next thing you know, I have only ten more minutes left. I think I used them wisely, though. I told him about the list and about my anxiety over sharing everything on it. He said I didn't have to share everything at once, but he is very interested in it and when I'm ready, he would like me to share.
Here's the thing (there's always a thing, you know). Ever since I told him that I don't feel like he *gets* me, he's been working really hard to make me feel like he's trying. That's a good thing, you say? Well, I feel like his new found interest in me is a bit fake. He's trying too hard. Subtlety is not his finest quality. The same thing happened when I told him I need to feel like I'm doing therapy "right". After that, he started flat out complimenting me on the good issues I'm bringing up. Now, I'll take the compliments wherever I can get them, I guess, but because them came so quickly on the heels of my comment, they too seem to be lacking in sincerity.
Well, I think I've got a few posts wrapped up in one, here. I just meant to update and let you all know that I did share the existence of my list and I do feel a sense of relief. I know I have some difficult work ahead, but overall I feel confident that my T will successfully guide me through it all at the right pace - mine :).
Thanks for all of your suppport! I seriously wouldn't have done it without you guys.
All Done
Posted by lonelygirl on March 22, 2004, at 2:52:48
In reply to Shared with my T (long update), posted by All Done on March 22, 2004, at 0:41:55
That's good that you have made him aware of the list. Maybe now he will try to make sure you get to it. I sometimes forget that my psychologist is not a mind-reader, and he doesn't always know when I want to talk about something different.
What you said about him working to make you think he's trying reminds me of something mine does. I was forced to go to counseling because I got in trouble at school, and I was not happy about being forced into it. I had also been forced into counseling by my parents when I was younger and did not have good experiences. I told him about this early on, and I said that I resented everyone acting like my problems are all in my head and that they can just send me to a psychologist who will wave the magic wand and make everything better, just by TALKING about it. It was funny, because when I said this, he got this happy look on his face -- I could almost see the light bulb lighting up in his head! I think it was the first time I really voluntarily elaborated on what I was thinking (and I think this was about the 3rd session), and he was so thrilled about this disclosure.
So now, any time he is about to give me advice, he starts out by saying, "Now, I know I'm sort of going into 'problem-solving mode' here, but..." Sometimes, after I say something, he says, "Well, I know that really sucks, and I'm sorry," and then a long pause before giving his "problem-solving mode" comment. I can tell that he is remembering what I said before and making sure he doesn't offend me by acting like my problems are all in my head and all that. He probably thinks he is really clever for it, too.
In a way, I am glad that he is remembering what I said and trying so hard to take my feelings into account, but at the same time, it annoys me a little bit, because it feels like he is trying to appease me, and it seems kind of manipulative. Of course, I know that the other stuff is kind of manipulative, too (his calm demeanor, being nice to me, saying he is not going to reject or abandon me, etc.), but I guess he has more practice at that stuff, so it's more believable.
Posted by Dinah on March 22, 2004, at 9:19:14
In reply to Shared with my T (long update), posted by All Done on March 22, 2004, at 0:41:55
Bravo! Job well done. :)
I know that took a lot of courage for you.
My therapist does that sort of thing too, but he does it with a lot more subtlety. No, subtlety isn't the right word. He does it with just the right amount of humor. Not enough to offend. But we've been together a long long time and I take humor well from him.
Posted by DaisyM on March 22, 2004, at 13:59:01
In reply to Shared with my T (long update), posted by All Done on March 22, 2004, at 0:41:55
Can I say I am immensely proud of you without it sounding condescending? Well, I am. That took courage, alot of it!
As far as the sincerity issue, I think what we pick up sometimes is a "technique" vs. an authentic response. And I think we have to allow both, recognizing techiques do work, even if they annoy us. Reality testing is the one that bugs me, and I usually say straight out, "I know what you are doing but I already recognize that this is an irrational response." And I think we don't trust something if we had to ask for it first. I don't know if that makes sense at all.
But I choose to believe that like many of us, my Therapist "forgets" to verbalize seemingly obvious positives, because to him it is a given. It may seem forced in your sessions a little, because your Therapist doesn't typically note out loud what he thinks is going well. Most of us point out what doesn't work, not what is going great.
And I think all Therapists have the potential to go off on tangents, assuming we need problem solving help with this particular item, instead of just empathy. It happens rarely with my Therapist, (but then again asking for help is not something I do) but I've noticed if I have a work issue, he will jump in and problem solve with me. I have learned more about him when this happens so I don't mind so much. You are probably totally right about neatness being an issue for your Therapist.
All in all, it does sound like it went well. Are you breathing a little easier now?
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 22, 2004, at 17:56:33
In reply to Shared with my T (long update), posted by All Done on March 22, 2004, at 0:41:55
All Done COOL :) Now you can share that list and not escape it lol..Once I had to make a list up and my T didnt ask me...I asked if he wanted to see it after a while and he said HE HAD BEEN WAITING FOR IT BUT WANTED IT TO BE SHARED ON MY COMFORTABLE TIME LINE..so take it with you and dont wait like I did to be asked for it. I think your T isnt being fake....thats what I think I think he may be trying best he knows to do the right method BY YOU and maybe he hasnt worked that out the way he wants yet?
Posted by All Done on March 22, 2004, at 21:15:41
In reply to Re: Shared with my T (long update) » All Done, posted by lonelygirl on March 22, 2004, at 2:52:48
> That's good that you have made him aware of the list. Maybe now he will try to make sure you get to it. I sometimes forget that my psychologist is not a mind-reader, and he doesn't always know when I want to talk about something different.
Well, I think this is where the hard work has just started for me. My T has never picked the topic of discussion for my sessions and I don't think this will be the exception - list or no list. I told him I was letting him know about the list to give myself some accountability. I do wish he was a mind reader sometimes, though. Wouldn't that make everything so much easier :)?
> In a way, I am glad that he is remembering what I said and trying so hard to take my feelings into account, but at the same time, it annoys me a little bit, because it feels like he is trying to appease me, and it seems kind of manipulative. Of course, I know that the other stuff is kind of manipulative, too (his calm demeanor, being nice to me, saying he is not going to reject or abandon me, etc.), but I guess he has more practice at that stuff, so it's more believable.
I know what you mean about it feeling manipulative, but I do hope and believe that, at least for me, those feelings will fade. I think my T is helping me to learn to trust him by staying consistant even if he does seem insincere at times. I don't know if this makes sense, but eventually, that consistancy will make me believe he is telling the truth because he is going to give me no other option.
I really didn't mean to sound negative about my T. I think perhaps I have a bit (or ton) of projection and transference issues hard at work this week.
It really does sound like you have a pretty good T and you do seem very nice. Please don't rule out the possibility that he really does care for you. I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear that that's the truth. (((Lonelygirl)))
Take care,
All Done
Posted by All Done on March 22, 2004, at 23:36:10
In reply to Re: Shared with my T (long update) » All Done, posted by Dinah on March 22, 2004, at 9:19:14
Thanks, Dinah!
I wish my T used humor more often. The few times he has, it's really helped me to feel a connection. I imagine with more time, he will learn to read me better and I will get more comfortable with his reactions.
Posted by All Done on March 23, 2004, at 16:40:32
In reply to Re: Shared with my T (long update), posted by DaisyM on March 22, 2004, at 13:59:01
Daisy,
Thank you so much for all of your support! I re-read your posts just before I went to see my T and it really helped me maintain at least enough courage.
As I said in an earlier post to lonelygirl, I think I’ve been a bit too hard on my T lately. I do understand that he has certain techniques he is using with me. They all have them and they have to choose which ones will work best based solely on what we tell them since that is how they know us. I guess that just kind of makes it feel like a magician revealing how he does the trick just before he does it. But again, I understand he is just hard at work trying to help me learn and trust. It just takes time.
I also have to admit that I’ve been thinking a lot lately about his age. He is 32. I’m 31. I told him I don’t have and have never really had much faith in “guys” my age. This probably goes back to my school age years, but it has been manifesting itself in my relationship with my T lately and I get all whiny about his sincerity.
To answer your question, I am breathing a little easier now. It did go well and I was proud of myself for sharing, too.
Hope you found some great shoes :).
Take care,
All Done
Posted by All Done on March 23, 2004, at 16:43:40
In reply to Re: Shared with my T (long update) » All Done, posted by Fallen4myT on March 22, 2004, at 17:56:33
Fallen,
It is nice to know that they work on our time lines, isn’t it? It feels safe.
And you’re right. I do believe he’s trying his best for me and I do think (hope) with time I will feel more sincerity in his comments.
Thanks for the post! I appreciate your thoughts.
Take care,
All Done
Posted by terrics on March 24, 2004, at 16:19:08
In reply to Shared with my T (long update), posted by All Done on March 22, 2004, at 0:41:55
Glad you feel confident things are going to work out. If he is trying that hard he must really want to work with you. terrics
Posted by All Done on March 24, 2004, at 23:29:20
In reply to Re: Shared with my T (long update) » All Done, posted by terrics on March 24, 2004, at 16:19:08
> If he is trying that hard he must really want to work with you. terrics
That was really nice to hear, terrics. Thank you very much!All Done
This is the end of the thread.
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