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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 44 to 68 of 68. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dinah on January 1, 2004, at 16:35:03
In reply to Re: transference » Dinah, posted by jane d on January 1, 2004, at 16:03:01
Which reminds me of the sort of transference I forgot to mention. The sort where you take everything you need, and transfer all those qualities onto a poor hapless and clueless therapist. If you're lucky they don't do too much to screw up your carefully constructed illusions.
And one day hopefully you won't need this imaginary safe place anymore and you graduate from therapy.
And she lived happily ever after.
THE END
lol.
(Sorry for the silliness, but it does seem like a fairytale sometimes.)
Posted by crushedout on January 1, 2004, at 16:42:21
In reply to Re: I saw her today » crushedout, posted by Dinah on January 1, 2004, at 16:18:18
Yes, Dinah, that's precisely what I have to remember, and have been reminding myself for awhile. But I'm still stuck with the problem that I feel so willing to destroy my life just for a night with her. I guess I need to work on that in therapy. Why would I be willing to do that to myself? She can't possibly be worth it, but it feels to me like she is.
And, there's always that possibility of that fantasy where it does work out all perfectly, even though that never seems to happen to anyone else. I must have a really swelled head to think I'll be the exception. But I can't help but hope it's true.
> Ok, maybe it's not impossible to get her to sleep with you. But it is impossible for it to turn out well, or be what you want. Or so close to impossible as to make no difference.
>
> The therapist usually gets scared or ashamed and ends up hurting the client.
>
Posted by crushedout on January 1, 2004, at 16:44:33
In reply to Re: I saw her today, posted by crushedout on January 1, 2004, at 16:42:21
Posted by Dinah on January 1, 2004, at 16:47:49
In reply to Re: I saw her today, posted by crushedout on January 1, 2004, at 16:42:21
Can you try altering your fantasies to be more realistic? Don's stop with the sleeping with her. And make the sleeping with her less perfect in your fantasies. Have her pass gas or be really lousy in bed (which is as likely as not you know).
On the rare occasions when i want my therapist to be my real mommy, that's what I do. And I always realize that while he makes a great therapist mommy he'd make an awful real one.
It helps me...
Posted by dragonfly25 on January 1, 2004, at 16:51:56
In reply to Re: transference » dragonfly25, posted by jane d on January 1, 2004, at 15:08:11
thanks everyone , that was helpful. i totally get it know.
dragonfly
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 2, 2004, at 1:46:12
In reply to I saw her today, posted by crushedout on December 31, 2003, at 14:50:32
> I also lent her my copy of "In Session."
I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
The first time anyone refers to a book without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she at least knows about it. It's just an option, though, and doesn't *have* to be used. If people *choose* not to use it, I'd be interested why not, but I'd like that redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html
Thanks!
Bob
Posted by Elle2021 on January 2, 2004, at 7:59:28
In reply to Re: OK, what do you all think of this??? » Elle2021, posted by dragonfly25 on January 1, 2004, at 9:39:57
"if i ever had romantic feelings for my doctor i would stop the therapy- is that a bad thing? but just b/c i would think it would interfere with MY issues that i came to him for."
It seems to me like it would interfere with the issues you came to him for, but apparently, for some it helps. If I experienced erotic transference, I would automatically try to become "Perfect," and my problems would disappear. Someone I'm attracted to can NOT know the real me, or that something might be wrong with me. So, it would shut down the theraputic process. But fortunately, I'm not attracted to my pdoc that way. But, I love it when he treats me like a daughter. It feels safe. I watched a biography (E! True Hollywood Story) on Dr. Phil, and it said that he said that he hated listening to all his patients complain. I wonder if thats what my doctor thinks about me. I hope not.
Elle
Posted by Dinah on January 2, 2004, at 8:09:38
In reply to Re: OK, what do you all think of this??? » dragonfly25, posted by Elle2021 on January 2, 2004, at 7:59:28
You're joking! Ugh. I don't think I'll watch him anymore (not that I have much - he doesn't come on Nickelodeon). How awful to instill shame into millions of therapy clients.
Posted by naiad on January 2, 2004, at 8:35:56
In reply to Re: OK, what do you all think of this??? » dragonfly25, posted by Elle2021 on January 2, 2004, at 7:59:28
"If I experienced erotic transference, I would automatically try to become "Perfect," and my problems would disappear."
THere is certainly that element of conflict. Get good therapy vs. get the Therapsit! Even though I tried to put my best self on display for my T because of the erotic transference, that didn't last for long. I couldn't keep up the mask.
I guess the reason I haven't terminatd is because I think I'm suppossed to be getting a benefit. So far the only one I can identify is that even though I long to have a romance with him, I have accepted that I cannot. I hate getting nothing back from him. Transferance comes in this way -- I never got the love from my mother that I wanted. My T is like her in that no matter how perfect I make myself try to be, I STLL get nothing back (at least not what I want)...the new news is that I understand on a visceral level how hurtful that is. Even though I have been aware of how I experienced my mother's parenting style as being cold and withholding, I didn't know how I felt about it. I didn't understand how painful it was. Unfortunately, having made this link has not made me feel much better about my life.
I am still in therapy 101 -- trying to figure out how to be a human. So hard.
Posted by naiad on January 2, 2004, at 8:39:37
In reply to Re: OK, what do you all think of this??? » Elle2021, posted by Dinah on January 2, 2004, at 8:09:38
Not to defend Dr. Phil, but I think that was an honest statement about *him* not his clients. He was admitting that he's not good at individual therapy.
Whenever I worry out loud about boring my T, he says "this is not about me." I love that...
Posted by pegasus on January 2, 2004, at 17:13:29
In reply to Re: OK, what do you all think of this???, posted by naiad on January 2, 2004, at 8:39:37
>
> Whenever I worry out loud about boring my T, he says "this is not about me." I love that...Really?! Or are you being sarchastic? I hate it when he says anything like that. Because for me, sometimes it *is* about how he feels. And when he says it's not, it's like he's decided to ignore half of what's going on in the room.
I understand that they're supposed to be there to help you and not to gratify their own needs. But if I'm worrying aloud about being boring, I'd feel a heck of a lot better if he said he wasn't bored than if he said I shouldn't worry about him. The latter makes me think I hit the nail on the head. And that it's "not appropriate" to talk about that, so he won't admit it. Sigh.
Posted by DaisyM on January 2, 2004, at 18:05:04
In reply to Re: OK, what do you all think of this??? naiad, posted by pegasus on January 2, 2004, at 17:13:29
> Whenever I worry out loud about boring my T, he says "this is not about me." I love that...
>Really?! Or are you being sarchastic? I hate it when he says anything like that. Because for me, sometimes it *is* about how he feels. And when he says it's not, it's like he's decided to ignore half of what's going on in the room.
<When I've said something like that, My Therapist replied that he wished I'd bore him...that would mean I wasn't dealing with so much Sh** still! And we both laughed. Then he usually asks if he has done anything to indicate that he is bored...and THEN I wonder if I DID pick up on something... I try not to ask stuff I really don't want answers too anymore.
Posted by naiad on January 3, 2004, at 4:45:19
In reply to Re: OK, what do you all think of this??? naiad, posted by pegasus on January 2, 2004, at 17:13:29
Pegasus,
Actually I was not being sarcastic. I did love it when my T told me that "he was very interested in blah, blah, blah and that its not about me, anyway." The feeling this response evoked in me was one of being cared for. For whatever reason, I suddenly felt at ease --supported and cradled. Maybe it was just the circumstance.
You make excellent points, though. There *is* a tension in the room about what they think of us but are not saying. Thats when I want to turn the tables and ask the questions. Another of my T's statements (this one did NOT please me, however) "This is not a symetrical realtionship" I often try to shift the balance of power.
Posted by naiad on January 3, 2004, at 4:47:06
In reply to Re: OK, what do you all think of this??? naiad, posted by naiad on January 3, 2004, at 4:45:19
above is for Pegasus
Posted by Elle2021 on January 3, 2004, at 5:18:06
In reply to Re: OK, what do you all think of this??? » Elle2021, posted by Dinah on January 2, 2004, at 8:09:38
> You're joking! Ugh. I don't think I'll watch him anymore (not that I have much - he doesn't come on Nickelodeon).
Hehe, I love Nick at Nite!
How awful to instill shame into millions of therapy clients.
Tell me about it! I refuse to watch him anymore. I used to think he was so intelligent and kind. I really hope my pdoc doesn't think I'm a complainer...I know I am though!
Elle
Posted by Elle2021 on January 3, 2004, at 5:22:27
In reply to Re: OK, what do you all think of this??? » Elle2021, posted by naiad on January 2, 2004, at 8:35:56
>Even though I have been aware of how I experienced my mother's parenting style as being cold and withholding, I didn't know how I felt about it.
My dad's parenting style was pretty cold and distant too. Later, in my teenage years it seemed on occasion he tried to be affectionate. I had no idea how to react or what to do. I still have trouble reciprocating affection with others. I didn't really learn how.
Elle
Posted by Still Hurting on January 4, 2004, at 3:48:06
In reply to Re: OK, what do you all think of this??? » Elle2021, posted by crushedout on December 30, 2003, at 23:34:52
Wow crushedout,
please tell me you are imagining all this? I remember telling my therapist that when sessions were all about our relationship and not about my issues, that's when I knew we were in trouble.And boy, you sound as if you are swimming with the whales. You are in deep crap.
Truthfully, what was going through your therapist's mind to give you a cd with love lyrics on it? Secondly, why would she tell you that she finds you attractive. Those two actions played into your transference.
See there's nothing wrong with transference, but the one in authority has to be strong. Obviously for whatever reason she is not strong.
Straight up ask her if she feels strong enough to deal with your transference. If she doesn't then let her go. If she does, then both of you refirm your boundaries.
I loved my therapist too. Yet my love for her didn't want to see her lose her job. And this drama sounds as though it's heading in that direction.
I wanted to kiss her, hold her, etc. But she had to be strong when I wasn't. Your's isn't.
Crossing professional boundaries happens all the time. Just don't embarrass her if she is weak.It is time you guys really talk. Talk while you can. There may come a time when talking is out and you appear for therapy and she's eradicated you as her client. Then you would really be hurt. Talk now!!
I know you want her to love you. But unfortunately as clients we can't have both. See what she wants. Then go from there.
Unfortunately boundaries in your therapeutic relationship seem so far broken that I don't know if you can ever repair them and remain her client.
Posted by Dinah on January 4, 2004, at 9:46:20
In reply to Re: I saw her today, posted by crushedout on January 1, 2004, at 16:42:21
I have to confess that I'm out of my depth when it comes to intense erotic feelings. I can't even recall the last time I was attracted sexually to a real life (as opposed to on screen) person. And even then it wasn't all that strong...
Posted by crushedout on January 4, 2004, at 11:18:47
In reply to Re: OK, what do you all think of this???, posted by Still Hurting on January 4, 2004, at 3:48:06
Still Hurting,
No, I'm not imagining it. Until recently, I thought I was imagining that maybe she liked me, too, and now I think maybe I see that it was real. I mean, on some level, she clearly must have "feelings" for me, even though I doubt they are as intense as mine for her (although who the heck knows?).
You may be right that I'm in deep crap. Did you read my follow up, when I talked to her about all this?
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20031221/msgs/295149.html
That gives me some hope that we can work through this. But I think you're right that I need more information. She said she was "enjoying" my romantic feelings toward her, but exactly how much was she enjoying it? I mean, if she really has any romantic feelings toward me, I think that could interfere with her objectivity as my therapist, and might make it hard for me to tell her everything the way I'm supposed to. For example, now I want to bring in some pictures to show her, and in order to do that we'd have to sit on the couch together, but I'm afraid she would think I was hitting on her if I asked her to sit next to me. Or that maybe the attraction would be too strong for us to be that physically close. I dunno. I shouldn't have to be thinking about stuff like this, though.
I kind of also want to ask her what's going on in her personal life that she became so invested in my feelings for her? I know she probably shouldn't tell me, but I mean, it seems like she must not be getting the kind of appreciation and love she needs from her husband if my feelings toward her became so important to her that she avoided dealing with them. What do you think?
I really like your idea that if I really love and care about her, I should not want her to lose her job. That may be something I can hold onto to let go of this fantasy of mine. That way I can think of myself as some kind of selfless hero in this whole mess: love transcending my selfish lustful desires, blah blah blah. No, really, I like it.
Thank you so much for your post.
crushed
> Wow crushedout,
> please tell me you are imagining all this? I remember telling my therapist that when sessions were all about our relationship and not about my issues, that's when I knew we were in trouble.
>
> And boy, you sound as if you are swimming with the whales. You are in deep crap.
>
> Truthfully, what was going through your therapist's mind to give you a cd with love lyrics on it? Secondly, why would she tell you that she finds you attractive. Those two actions played into your transference.
>
> See there's nothing wrong with transference, but the one in authority has to be strong. Obviously for whatever reason she is not strong.
>
> Straight up ask her if she feels strong enough to deal with your transference. If she doesn't then let her go. If she does, then both of you refirm your boundaries.
>
> I loved my therapist too. Yet my love for her didn't want to see her lose her job. And this drama sounds as though it's heading in that direction.
>
> I wanted to kiss her, hold her, etc. But she had to be strong when I wasn't. Your's isn't.
> Crossing professional boundaries happens all the time. Just don't embarrass her if she is weak.
>
> It is time you guys really talk. Talk while you can. There may come a time when talking is out and you appear for therapy and she's eradicated you as her client. Then you would really be hurt. Talk now!!
>
> I know you want her to love you. But unfortunately as clients we can't have both. See what she wants. Then go from there.
>
> Unfortunately boundaries in your therapeutic relationship seem so far broken that I don't know if you can ever repair them and remain her client.
Posted by crushedout on January 4, 2004, at 11:23:28
In reply to Re: Erotic transferences » crushedout, posted by Dinah on January 4, 2004, at 9:46:20
There goes that dry wit, again. (Even though I know you're basically serious.)> I have to confess that I'm out of my depth when it comes to intense erotic feelings. I can't even recall the last time I was attracted sexually to a real life (as opposed to on screen) person. And even then it wasn't all that strong...
>
>
Posted by crushedout on January 4, 2004, at 11:25:13
In reply to Re: OK, what do you all think of this???, posted by Still Hurting on January 4, 2004, at 3:48:06
> please tell me you are imagining all this? I remember telling my therapist that when sessions were all about our relationship and not about my issues, that's when I knew we were in trouble.Still Hurting,
This makes it sound like you've been through a similar experience to mine. Is that true? Would you be willing to share a little of it with me?
crushed
Posted by Still Hurting on January 4, 2004, at 22:27:01
In reply to Your experience » Still Hurting, posted by crushedout on January 4, 2004, at 11:25:13
Crushed, where have you been? I thought everybody on this site knew about my drama.
I began therapy somewhere around Febrary. I took one look at my therapist and thought she was one ugly woman. But knowing that she could probably see my expression I hid my first impression drama and followed her into the room.
As I sat there week by week I was drawn into her. Her aura was incridible. Such love, care, concern and compassion I'd never, or rather, I hadn't felt anything that powerful in a long time. I mean, just her presence seemed to send off this powerful energy that made me feel so good. I felt like a baby in its mother's arms. Three to four weeks into therapy I started having psychological problems with her. I would leave therapy and my mind would be on her 24/7 and then some. I fantasized of her continuously. She would either play the role of my mother, lover or friend. It was so hard. She seemed to be the perfect person in my life. She was the soul mate that my heart/soul had been looking for. She was the mother that could cradle all my fears away. I loved her. I would open up to her with ease. Not because she deserved it as my therapist, but because I loved her and didn't want to hide anything from her. Plus, we were in therapy so being open and honest with her seemed only appropriate. We seemed to have such a connection, whether she was faking or not, I don't know. But from my point of view her and I were tight. We talked about everything and anything. Yet I was feeling guilty because I knew that I was so attached to her and that was one thing I was hiding within the sessions. Once we talked about how I was attached to some woman but I didn't let her know that the woman was her. She gave me advice but I still struggled. She saw that I looked at her as a mother figure but we never stayed on that subject for long. But sooner or later I couldn't live with it on my conscience knowing how powerful I felt about this woman. Plus my attachment to her was beginning to unravel. So I decided to just be truthful. I wrote her a five page letter explaining to her that I wanted her love. Whatever I had to be in order to receive her love I was willing to become it so that I could continuously feel her love. Whether that was to be a her lover, her child or her friend. Who told me to do that. That scared the crap in her. Next thing I know she was calling a meeting between me, herself and my doctor. And followed up therapy sessions had to be held with her and another male therapist. I didn't approve of this change. And she couldn't explain to me whereby it made sense to me why this was necessary. I felt abandon, rejected and hurt. Now mind you, for about six weeks she'd kept asking me if I wanted another therapist. For about five weeks straight I would tell her no and then finally I asked her if she felt as if she couldn't help me. She told me that she could and so we left the subject alone. So when she cancelled our session for that week in order that she could see me the following week along with my doctor,I saw it as her way out. It hurt me so bad because she knew that I had a problem with rejection and she "promised" not to reject me. She even stated that she was in it for the long haul because I'd been bounced from therapist to therapist.
Well seeing that I didn't like what she'd done, I called another therapy service to better understand why she would have done what she did. None of the therapy services understood that approach. So in anger I stated that I was going to burn her house down. I didn't even know where she lived. They inturn called her service and told them what I'd said. The next day I was called to have a meeting with her boss and my doctor. They decided that they knew I'd spoken out of frustration nevertheless my sessions with her were now terminated. Not only were they cancelled, my contact with her was immediately terminated. Not only could I not contact her, I couldn't be found anywhere near her job premises. Boy that hurt. I'd given my soul to this woman so she could help me and now I was terminated from her like I had Sars or something. Nobody knows the pain. I felt emotionally raped. I gave this woman my secrets and she did what others had done. I didn't mean to fall for her the way I did. But it happened. She'd taught me how to sit down and talk crap out but when it came to this she was nowhere to be found. Two days after it happened, I found a way to talk to her for about 4 minutes about why she'd terminated me. She told me that I'd crossed boundaries. Unfortunately she thinks she'd done me a favor by talking to me for those 4 minutes. She tells her job that being those 4 minutes didn't help me that's proof that I need another therapist to help me work thru the transference. Sometimes I hate her so. I hate her for opening me up and not staying around to sew me back up. Yeah, I'm wrong for loving her, but it's not that I purposely wanted to. Okay, it's my fault. I take responsibility of falling for my therapist. I blame myself for feeling safe in her presence. What also hurt is that recently I learned that it wasn't her establishment that barred me from the premises it was her. She went to them and told them all the ways I was trying to reconnect with her. I was using email and the phone. I was really punished by her for loving her. I wonder if she treats all people like this. Two weeks ago I asked her if she'll meet with me to provide more closure to this drama. She declined. I told her that I didn't like going thru this pain. She asked me if I knew the crap that she was going thru. I told her no, but she could tell me. She hung up. I could hear her frustrations. I've decided to let it all go. It's bad enough that the police have been involved, plus her job, our friends,family members, it's too much. The police were involved because I got her home number and address and used it. Oh mercy. It scarred the crap out of her when I called her at home. I am no fatal attraction. I just couldn't say good-bye to what seemed to give me life. I needed help letting go what seemed to be love, attention and affection for me. She was my all. If there was anybody I felt at one with it was her. But when she saw my transference, she ran from me, whilst I stood there holding the bag. I just never thought she would have hurt me so, even if it was my dumbness.
That's my story crushed.
And God knows I pray that with your feelings for your therapist it never comes down to something like this. Pain took you to your therapist but you've never experience true pain until crap like this goes down with your therapist.
Be extremely careful as you and your therapist play around with your transference. When it bites you in the butt it will hurt you really bad.
Posted by crushedout on January 5, 2004, at 3:14:33
In reply to Re: Your experience, posted by Still Hurting on January 4, 2004, at 22:27:01
Wow, Still Hurting, that's an intense, sad story. Thank you for sharing it with me.I'm not exactly sure how I missed it. I've only been on Babble for a few months, though. How long ago did this all happen?
Did you say she saw you for five weeks after you gave her the letter, and said she could handle it? Or did she bring the other doctor in immediately after receiving your letter? I didn't get that part.
Do you really think she was punishing you for loving her, or was it the boundary crossings that freaked her out?
If it was simply because of your transference, that seems very unprofessional. They're supposed to know how to deal with that.
In any event, thank you for sharing that heartbreaking story. It's a good thing for me to keep in mind as I proceed through these treacherous waters.
crushed
Posted by Still Hurting on January 5, 2004, at 21:43:01
In reply to Re: Your experience » Still Hurting, posted by crushedout on January 5, 2004, at 3:14:33
Crushedout,
I saw her for five months. After the first month my attachment was increasing more and more. When the attachment became noticeable that's when I confessed to her the whole deal.That was on the fifth month. That's when she decided to cancell my session for that week and reschedule me for the following week along with my doctor. Then farther sessions were to be held with her and a male therapist.
This all went down in June.
Yes the boundary crossing freaked her out, but I crossed boundaries because I loved her; that's why I say,"She punished me for loving her". Because if I didn't love her I would have never crossed boundaries; so in my opinion it would have been better advantageous to deal with my heart and not my actions. She could have worked thru my transference for both of us to better understand why it was so great. But then again, hearing all my mess it must have been clearly understandable why I clinged to her so.
But what I hate about what she did was use falsehoods to justify her actions of termination. She told her boss that because I wanted a lesbian relationship with her she had to let me go. I never told her that. I struggled with my feelings for her, and not always did I know what feelings I had for her. But never did I ask her to join me in a homo relationship. Then she told them that I wrote letters of sexual content to her. In assistance to my therapy I had to write letters and sometimes I would talk about my previous sexual relations. In all my letters never did I talk about what I wanted to do with her.
I thought that therapist were truth tellers if anybody but it concerns me that here she is supposedly teaching me a better way of living and she didn't even know the basic principle of integrity.
Then when she terminated me her establishment sent me a letter telling me not to ruin her reputation by slandering her on false allegations. Yet she's sent out all these letters destroying me. Plus a hurt client will express their frustrations to anybody who will listen. And here she is telling me not to do so. Oh well.
But crushedout, concerning your situation, I didn't get why your therapist made you that cd. What was her reason again?
Lastly, your therapist is in love face it.
Posted by crushedout on January 5, 2004, at 21:51:25
In reply to Re: Your experience » crushedout, posted by Still Hurting on January 5, 2004, at 21:43:01
> But crushedout, concerning your situation, I didn't get why your therapist made you that cd. What was her reason again?
She said it was to feel a connection with me.
> Lastly, your therapist is in love face it.You mean with her husband, right? If you mean with me, I don't think that's true.
This is the end of the thread.
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