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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Karen_kay on December 17, 2003, at 16:44:13
In reply to Re: Therapy gripe, posted by Miss Honeychurch on December 17, 2003, at 15:30:48
Just plain yuck! Picking his teeth? Did your crush subside for a bit when he did that? Imagine him picking his teeth in bed, he he! Did he eat the finished product? That could be the worst case scenario. Or look at it? Now, that would be bad manners! I'm curious as to what he did after he picked his teeth......
Why not tell him that you are not ready to move on. I think that when you say "That makes sense" he is giving you some time to think about it. Try brigning it up at your next session. Or just say "Wait a minute. I've been dealing with this for _ years. You're not going to solve it in 5 minutes. Now, can we at least take an extra 5 minutes to discuss this further, or will this interupt you from picking your teeth? I assure you, you can pick your teeth and listen to me talk aobut this at the same time." (Or feel free to substitute your own words. Just let him know that you aren't convinced that you are completely "over" the issue)
To get over the small talk, why not walk in and just blurt out what you have to say. Don't say "Hi, how are you" or anything like that. If he asks questions, tell him that you don't like the small talk and you are comfortable enough with him to dive right in to the real stuff. I think that most therapists and clients like the small talk because it helps to relax the client. Kinda gets you into the whole "role"
Posted by Karen_kay on December 17, 2003, at 16:51:18
In reply to Re: Therapy gripe, posted by Joslynn on December 17, 2003, at 15:59:21
Don't you just feel like she is reading from a list in her head? The same thing she told the last person sitting in the very same chair? It makes me feel more like a number than a person.... I hate insincere compliments. Come to think of it, doesn't everything they say seem that way. Like the same thing they say to everyone else. Like it isn't sincere. I'm sure it is just stress getting to me right now But,,,
I'm paying him to basically recite to me from a textbook. I'm paying for advice. I should be able to figure all of this out myself anyway. I should be thinking about finals right now anyway..
Posted by DaisyM on December 17, 2003, at 16:51:39
In reply to Therapy gripe, posted by Karen_kay on December 17, 2003, at 15:08:39
Gee...I'm having a hard time with this one. In fact at my last session my therapist ask me if he was doing anything that bothered me or seemed to be getting in the way. (We were talking about my continual struggle with needing him, feeling like a *problem* client, etc.) I couldn't come up with anything! Not a Golden Fantasy...just that we seem really compatible. Of course, he has been doing this for a long time, so maybe he has worked out his quirks.
He does ask the same question that Dinah hates: What did you bring that up just now? (or some variation). But it doesn't bother me because I usually know why I have. And he asks questions so carefully, gentle most of the time, like he doesn't want to lead.
And silence, well, he doesn't leave things hanging too long. But he gives me enough space to think. I did think once that background music would be nice to fill up the space.
I guess I wish he told more stories -- like about his past experiences or clients, or something. It might normalize things more for me. I mean, he'll say, "that's normal. Most people might feel this or that," but he doesn't say, "once, I had a client who tried..."
I'll think about it some more...
Posted by Karen_kay on December 17, 2003, at 16:56:16
In reply to Re: Therapy gripe, posted by Karen_kay on December 17, 2003, at 16:51:18
And your Pdoc runnoing late..
At least you are getting your full time. It could be worse. He (am I right?) could show up 15 minutes late, rush you in, barely look at your chart, and tell you to leave. My Pdoc is unpredictable as well, I never know if the appointment will take 20 minutes (as scheduled) or an hour, so I tend to schedule therapy the hour afterwards. If I get out on time (HA! rarely if ever!) then I go and get a cup of coffee. If I get out late, I'm mad because I don't have my coffee for therapy! No win situation...
Posted by Karen_kay on December 17, 2003, at 17:08:31
In reply to my goat......., posted by justyourlaugh on December 17, 2003, at 16:01:02
I just about fell out of my chair laughing! Thank you thank you thank you for some much needed laughter during my stressful time!
As for the silence... Maybe we should switch therapists for a day? Mine just won't shut up. And he told me that when he made tapes for his supervisors they even told him he needed to talk less and leave some time for reflection. I think that your therapist is giving you time to sit with your feelings. Maybe mine realizes I have no feelings, so there is no need to sit with them? :) (That WAS a joke sort of?) You could call him on it, if you are brave. Say, "Why are you so quiet? I feel like you want me to say more, but I don't have anything to say. Am I supposed to say something else?" But I suspect he will comeback with something like "Do you feel the need to say something else," or "Why do you feel that way" or some therapist crap like that.. If I were in that situation, I'd do the stare-off thing... In the beginning, when I was completely resistant and didn't talk to him much I would just sit there and glare at him. And he didn't talk much either. But, I didn't make much progress.I don't make eye contact with mine anymore either. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that he wears glasses and they reflect. I don't like that. Also, most of the things we talk about I'm ashamed of. And since I see him as my "new daddy" that only adds to the shame. It is hard to look someone in the eyes who knows so much about you. But, what if I look him in the eyes and I discover he's crosseyed? That'd suck...
Posted by Dinah on December 17, 2003, at 17:55:30
In reply to Re: Therapy gripe » Miss Honeychurch, posted by Karen_kay on December 17, 2003, at 16:44:13
Last time (when he was sick no less), mine wiped the pickins on the inside of his pants leg. :) Next time I hope I have the presence of mind to hand him the tissue box.
And he always starts late. If he started on time, I'd think he was in a hurry or something. I'm always there on time anyway though. Otherwise he could short my session. :(
Posted by Karen_kay on December 17, 2003, at 18:47:56
In reply to Re: Therapy gripe » Karen_kay, posted by Dinah on December 17, 2003, at 17:55:30
> Last time (when he was sick no less), mine wiped the pickins on the inside of his pants leg. :)
<<<And this gets a smiley face??? Oh my god!! That is absolutely the funniest thing I have ever read in my life. And the reason it is so funny is because my boyfriend does the same thing. And I glare at him in disgust every single time he does it. Why in the world would someone pick up this habit? I can't stop laughing... This is too much... When my boyfriend does it I have tried yelling, bringing him a tissue, everything... He still continues... Yuck.. Ugh... It is dreadful...I guess maybe it is some sort of male hunting type of instinct? I'm glad my therapist has perfect manners. If he did that I would leave. Talk about transference. I would call him Andy (my boyfriend's name) and leave. I couldn't take it. I think my therapist is perfect... Ick, I can't believe he did that. I have half a mind to march into your therapist's office and talk to him about that!
Posted by Joslynn on December 17, 2003, at 21:02:27
In reply to Re: Therapy gripe » Dinah, posted by Karen_kay on December 17, 2003, at 18:47:56
Hee! Ok, I though of a good gripe. My pdoc just has one unisex bathroom in his office suite place, and, well...he leaves the toilet seat up!
Another one: One time, my therapist cleaned her glasses with her saliva. I mean, she actually spit on them and then wiped them with the bottom of her shirt! It was one of the most bizarre personal cleaning rituals I have ever witnessed from a human being, and to think it was my therapist doing it made it even grosser. Other than that, she is great, but it was just so gross.
ewwwww.
Posted by Karen_kay on December 17, 2003, at 21:52:08
In reply to Re: Therapy gripe, posted by Joslynn on December 17, 2003, at 21:02:27
Kinda makes you wonder if we have any weird habits that they find annoying. No, I'm certain that I don't. Well, I do tend to put my feet up on the chair when I feel uncomfortable. But I catch myself and lower them. I think it is so I can hide my face. I just feel sorry for the poor sap who comes in after me and has to sit in the dirt that I leave on the chair from my shoe. I've often wondered if I should ask to sit on the floor so I can prop my feet up, but that wouldn't be ladylike (not prop my feet up but curl them all the way up next to my butt and rest my chin on my knees, catch watch I'm throwing?)...
Oh, something else he does... I think he knows I'm clumsy because he is always moving my coffee. Even when it is nowhere close to the edge of the coffee table. He reaches over to move it to the center of the table. He says he doesn't want it to fall. I've never spilled it before. I think maybe he's just used to having kids around or something, but goodness, I'm 24 years old. I know when a drink is too close to the edge of a table. Maybe he just wants to be near me because I smell good. Yeah, that's it!
Posted by Dinah on December 17, 2003, at 21:56:02
In reply to Re: Therapy gripe » Dinah, posted by Karen_kay on December 17, 2003, at 18:47:56
>
> <<<And this gets a smiley face???Proof of how fond of him I am, I suppose. (grin)
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on December 17, 2003, at 22:15:03
In reply to Re: Therapy gripe » Miss Honeychurch, posted by Karen_kay on December 17, 2003, at 16:44:13
OK, please brace yourself......
He ATE the freaking morsel that he picked out of his teeth!!!!!!!!! O sweet Lord. I can't tell you how much it bothered me! And yes, it did dampen my crush somewhat on him. I mean come on!! I can't stand any bodily functions in public like burping or picking your nose, etc. I wish I could see it like Dinah and think of his picking his teeth as a charming reminder of his humanity, but I am not that mature.
As far as the small talk, I have been going in there lately with a typed agenda which I present to him at the very beginning. I know he has NO idea how to take this, but I find it keeps things on on subject since a lot of times he likes to ramble.
Posted by fallsfall on December 17, 2003, at 22:57:27
In reply to Re: Therapy gripe » Karen_kay, posted by Miss Honeychurch on December 17, 2003, at 22:15:03
Posted by Karen_kay on December 18, 2003, at 8:39:44
In reply to Re: Therapy gripe » Karen_kay, posted by Miss Honeychurch on December 17, 2003, at 22:15:03
And you didn't say anything when he ate it? At least grunt or snort or make some sort of noise? Ewww! I wouldn't have been able to control myself. I admire you for your self control in that situation. I don't think I would have talked to my therapist for the remainder of the session. No, I would have talked to him. But, only to tell him how rude he is. Just plain yuck! [Did he look at it first?] :) This is rather fascinating. I'm so glad my therapist has manners!!! He's SO perfect, NOT at all like yours (just kidding!!)
As for the agenda.... WHAT????? How would you expect him to take that??? Do you have it timed out too?? See the example below..
9:00 Greetings
9:01 My mother
9:25 Husband's crap
9:32 Work related issues
9:45 Transference
9:49 Reschedule
9:49:30 Receipt and put on coatIs this a typical agenda? Girl, I thought I had control issues :) I'm only poking fun, you know...But, if you present him with an agenda that could show him that you are unsatisfied with your progress (or the rate of it), or you are unsatisfied with his work. It could also mean that you are stuck in a power struggle. Has he asked you about the agenda? Does he stick to the agenda? If he strays do you say, "Please refer to item number 3 on your agenda." It just makes therapy seem more like a business relationship.
When my therapist starts to ramble, which he does SO often, I glare at him (the only time I make eye contact). Also, I interupt him too (it is ok to be "rude", he doesn't mind. He knows I'm not rude. I have a very limited amount of time to get through things and when he's wasting my time with his crap about minivans and his own father (sorry mark :(] I have to focus the conversation back on me. If I don't feel that if pertains to me then I listen politely for a while and either look at the clock or interupt and say "Yeah, but I feel......" And if he tries to interupt me again I say "You're getting long-winded and not listening to what I'm saying..." It doesn't always work, but as ong as I have about 30 of the 50 minutes I'm happy. I appreciate his stories, but I like to hear myself talk as well :)
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on December 18, 2003, at 10:11:17
In reply to Re: Therapy gripe » Miss Honeychurch, posted by Karen_kay on December 18, 2003, at 8:39:44
Karen, your agenda is better than mine!!
I think he finds the whole agenda thing pretty funny to tell you the truth. I mainly do it so I'm sure I get to talk about what I want to talk about. For example, concerning the whole transference thing, I wanted to go in there one week and pick up where we left off the week before and I was going to introduce my bathroom dream and then work from there. But he had other plans and we spent the entire time talking about my marriage. I suppose this has therapeutic value since one of the reasons I started therapy was to decide if I wanted a divorce or not. So basically, all of my momentum about the father/figure transference thing was lost that day and I don't have the same urgency to talk about it, and now I'm frustrated! At the beginning of therapy, he told me that a lot of what we talk about is up to me so I decided to make things easier on all of us and do agendas.
I think I'll go in there this afternoon though with your agenda (complete with times) and see what he says. That was too hilarious! Anyway, today's agenda will be the following (and it looks like this)
Miss Honeychurch
December 18, 2003
2:00 pmAGENDA
1. Continuation of dream analysis from week before
2. Continuing saga with father and step-monster
3. Feelings of mediocrity
4. Constant need for attention
I realize this is really funny, but it helps me talk about what I want to talk about. I can only imagine what he says to his colleagues about this. IT's funny, I never looked at it as a control issue. I need to think more about that now, interesting observation. I thought I was just being thorough!
And no, he didn't look at it before he ate "the morsel." Just dug it out of the back and placed it on his tongue like a champ!
Posted by Karen_kay on December 18, 2003, at 11:20:09
In reply to Re: Therapy gripe » Karen_kay, posted by Miss Honeychurch on December 18, 2003, at 10:11:17
I SO look forward to you posts! :) So, as for the teeth-picking incident. I can't believe that. And you didn't glare at him in disgust? I would have.
I find it odd that you don't get to talk about what you want to talk about. My therapist always lets me talk about what I want to talk about. I control what we talk about. There was one occassion where we were talking about my father adn in the middle of the discussion I interrupted him and said "Oh, I have to ask you a question." He knew it was off topic, so he told me to stick with this for a while and we'd come back to it. I told himto be sure to remind me later. He didn't remind me later, but I remembered. The question was if he thought I have antisocial personality disorder (I'm paranoid, I know). But, I've been researching it and I've been scared maybe I have it. He reassured me I don't.
Why not be brave today and make this agenda....
Miss Honeychurch
December 18, 2003
2:00 pm2:00-2:49 Feelings of transference towards therapist
2:49-2:50 Holiday Greetings and petty annoyances
Do you both have a copy of the agenda?
Do you mark the items off when you finish discussing them?I might take your idea for an agenda and use it, would that be ok? My therapist would get a kick out of that.... He would laugh for sure! I still think that is SO!! funny! An agenda for therapy. Girl, you are too much! That is it! I'll start making an agenda and will take him a list of *appropriate* nice things to say about me... Am I being too demanding?
Posted by naiad on December 18, 2003, at 11:39:00
In reply to Re: Therapy gripe » Miss Honeychurch, posted by Karen_kay on December 18, 2003, at 8:39:44
Wow, I wish I had the problem of my therapist talking too much. As someone else on this thread said, its the silence that kills me. I really think I am answering a question and then bingo back comes another question to dig deeper or clarify. And he stares at me -- I guess looking for some body language clues. I only sense this,of course, becuase I am looking around the room, out the window or down at my shoes.
When he does talk, I am enthralled because he loves literature and quotes poets. He also has a beautiful. melodius voice which I find comforting and soooo sexy. Of well, thats another problem I have...transferance. It's hard for me to feel critical of him since i believe he knows what he is doing, and I am the clueless one.
Thanks for letting me vent.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on December 18, 2003, at 12:08:19
In reply to You are TOO much! » Miss Honeychurch, posted by Karen_kay on December 18, 2003, at 11:20:09
I have been laughing for 10 minutes about my new agenda
2 - 2:49 Transference
2:49-2:50 Holiday greetings and petty annoyances
That is GOLD!
And don't get me wrong, he does let me talk about what I want to talk about. A lot of times I'll start the conversation but then he'll steer it onto a topic which I don't find particularly helpful (although he must think it is helpful) so we end up discussing something sometimes which I have no interest in. This way I KNOW at least he sees what I want to talk about.
And by all means, please use and agenda, no problem!
I think I was too shocked to know how to react to the teeth picking. It hasn't happened again though. Maybe if he does it again I'll produce my compact mirror out of my purse for his use.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on December 18, 2003, at 12:13:45
In reply to You are TOO much! » Miss Honeychurch, posted by Karen_kay on December 18, 2003, at 11:20:09
I make sure we both have a copy of the agenda, but I don't really mark off when the issue has been addressed. I am laughing so hard now, this sounds COMPLETELY ludicrous the more I think about it!
I'm going in there this afternoon completely giddy. Can't wait to show him my new agenda complete with times.
Posted by Penny on December 18, 2003, at 12:41:52
In reply to Re: You are TOO much! » Karen_kay, posted by Miss Honeychurch on December 18, 2003, at 12:08:19
> I think I was too shocked to know how to react to the teeth picking. It hasn't happened again though. Maybe if he does it again I'll produce my compact mirror out of my purse for his use.
I, personally, think you should wrap up some dental floss and give it to him for Christmas. But you have to include a card that says he has to use it BEFORE your session, not during!!!
sorry...couldn't resist. this is too funny.
P
Posted by Penny on December 18, 2003, at 12:44:12
In reply to Re: Therapy gripe, posted by Joslynn on December 17, 2003, at 15:59:21
My pdoc usually sees me last thing on Friday evening, and I guess he feels especially comfortable with me, b/c if he hasn't eaten his dinner yet he usually asks if it's okay if he eats in front of me. Which I don't mind, b/c I make a point of eating before I go, because I never know how long I'm going to have to wait to see him. Sometimes he's right on time (rarely) and sometimes he's 2-3 hours behind. But I'm not complaining, b/c he spends as much or more time with me as with his other patients. I'm usually in with him for about an hour.
P
Posted by Karen_kay on December 18, 2003, at 13:00:11
In reply to Re: Therapy gripe, posted by Penny on December 18, 2003, at 12:44:12
What, he eats in front of you? Like a few grapes or a meal? I go into my therapist's office and he always has snacks open in his office and offers then to me (See, he has perfect manners, unlike Miss Honey's... :).... But, back to you Penny...
Does he eat like a whole meal? I might be interested to know what my therapist eats but I would be extremely upset if he ate in front of me. I think I would be upset if he ate anything, how could he be free to comment? I get upset when my therapist coughs. I find it distracting. But, if you aren't upset, then you are a bigger person than I am..
But, did you say he **2 or 3** hours behind?? Do you wait for him?? What is that??? Oh man, I'd be fuming!! Do you wait in the waiting room for 3 hours? Maybe I read this wrong. Please clear this up. This is causing me to have some transference issues with my therapist. I'm getting mad at mine because yours makes you wait that long. I get upset when I have to wait 1 minute in the waiting room. I couldn't imagine! Please let me know soon... I sense a panic attack coming on :(
Posted by Karen_kay on December 18, 2003, at 13:07:17
In reply to Re: You are TOO much! » Karen_kay, posted by Miss Honeychurch on December 18, 2003, at 12:13:45
I think it is SO cute that you produce an agenda! But, it shows that maybe you are stuck in "business mode." Next time, maybe you could do a power point presentation as well? Ha ha...
Or highlight some sections that he needs to pay particular attention to? (Such as transference)How did you come up with the idea of an agenda? What was his reaction the first time you brought it in?
I think it is cute... :)
I'll try it, but just once. I'm sure my therapist will laugh for about 20 minutes.
Posted by LostGirl on December 18, 2003, at 13:20:22
In reply to Re: You are TOO much! » Miss Honeychurch, posted by Karen_kay on December 18, 2003, at 13:07:17
This is great. Absolutely great.
How vulnerable we are in those chairs/couches sitting across from these beings. How we notice every little things.
Tooth-picking....way better than nose-picking which would be grounds to flee immediately and forever but gross nonetheless.
Eating in front of you? Wow. I don't want to know that they eat or do other human functions. I hated when my former one occasionally let me in and said he's going to the bathroom and would be right back. I think he had me go in to his office first, rather than continue to wait in the waiting room because I would have heard him peeing in the little bathroom off the waiting room. I definitely would not have wanted that! It was bad enough picturing that he was actually in the bathroom, holding his.......
Anyway....my current therapist is in her 50s,female, very prim and proper,wears expensive real jewelry, has a mink coat hanging there, wears very high heels with pointy toes, has died steaky blonde hair - everything opposite from me. And then one day I notice for the first time a TATOO on the inside of one ankle of a rose. I couldn't believe it - it so didn't fit. And I was pre-occupied with it after that - like did she have this all along and I never noticed it because she usually wears boots, or crosses her legs so I only see the other side of the ankle. It just didn't fit.
Posted by Penny on December 18, 2003, at 13:22:38
In reply to Re: Therapy gripe » Penny, posted by Karen_kay on December 18, 2003, at 13:00:11
ROTF!!!!!!!! OMG - you are SOOOOO funny Karen Kay!!!! Thanks for the laugh.
When my pdoc eats in front of me, it's like a meal - like a sandwich or something - not like a snack. And we talk during that time - it's not therapy like with my therapist, but we catch up on the week or however long it's been since I've seen him. He's a fast eater, so it doesn't take long, and he *always* asks my permission. Note: he usually sees me at 6 p.m. or later on Friday night, and he's been in the office ALL DAY, and is sometimes there seeing patients until midnight or so. So I don't begrudge him his evening meal. I don't know if he eats in front of other patients or not, but it doesn't bother me.
As for the waiting - yeah, sometimes if he's running really behind I might wait for 2 hours or so. One time he had an emergency admit to the hospital that he had to arrange for another patient and I ended waiting even longer. I was given the option of rescheduling, but I didn't really have anything better to be doing anyway, and I had my book with me, so...
I just go to his office prepared. I bring my journal, a book, sometimes crosswords or cross stitch or something. Lately he's been more on time than not, but it all depends.
But, to me, this is a small price to pay for the amount of access I have to him. Like I said, I'm usually in with him for an hour or more. And I can page him ANY TIME day or night, and he'll call me back. I called his office one night at 11:30 p.m. and fully didn't expect him to be there, but he was, and he was on another call, and I was really upset, and he called me back and I was on the phone with him for like 30 minutes. He didn't charge me - he doesn't charge for phone calls. He's given me his home number, just in case. He helps me out with my meds. He waives part of my fee b/c he knows I can't afford to pay him the entire amount I'm supposed to pay him (he does get reimbursed by insurance for their part though).
My pdoc has a very fatherly stance toward me. He's a little older than my dad (about three years) and he's the father of FIVE children, the oldest of which is a little younger than I am, and sometimes when he's talking to me about my work stuff or my dating stuff (mind you, he's the ONLY man I've ever been able to be really open with about those kinds of things!), I feel like he's my dad and I'm his daughter and he's giving me fatherly advice. My dad isn't anything like that, so I love it.
Sorry...I think my pdoc is the greatest thing since sliced bread... :-) He also referred me to my therapist, who I love. She is almost always on time for our sessions and is also very accessible to me, but I think that therapists are *usually* more punctual. I don't hold my pdoc's inability to stay on schedule against him one bit. :-)
P
Posted by Penny on December 18, 2003, at 13:31:56
In reply to Re: You are TOO much!, posted by LostGirl on December 18, 2003, at 13:20:22
> Eating in front of you? Wow. I don't want to know that they eat or do other human functions. I hated when my former one occasionally let me in and said he's going to the bathroom and would be right back. I think he had me go in to his office first, rather than continue to wait in the waiting room because I would have heard him peeing in the little bathroom off the waiting room. I definitely would not have wanted that! It was bad enough picturing that he was actually in the bathroom, holding his.......
The bathroom at my pdoc's office is pretty soundproof, which is great! And he never says he's going to the bathroom just that he'll be 'right back' which could be getting water or whatever. My former boss used to use an old Navy term - "I've gotta go hit the head." It was disgusting!!!
But in my T's office, there are two bathrooms in a small suite of offices, and they aren't designated as men's or women's, so I think it's kind of strange as there are only four offices there! But when you're in her office and someone goes into one of the bathrooms, you can hear them peeing! Ewwww. But not if they're in the other bathroom.
> Anyway....my current therapist is in her 50s,female, very prim and proper,wears expensive real jewelry, has a mink coat hanging there, wears very high heels with pointy toes, has died steaky blonde hair - everything opposite from me. And then one day I notice for the first time a TATOO on the inside of one ankle of a rose. I couldn't believe it - it so didn't fit. And I was pre-occupied with it after that - like did she have this all along and I never noticed it because she usually wears boots, or crosses her legs so I only see the other side of the ankle. It just didn't fit.
Wow...my former T was pretty prim and proper - very petite, perfect hair and makeup, jewelry (though nothing extravagant) and her clothes were always so neat. I can imagine that she was a bit anal about appearance, not that she ever made any allusions to my lack of neatness. My current T occasionally wears jeans and more often wears either long skirts or slacks and she's much more relaxed in appearance - and I like that. Her hair is graying (she's somewhere in her 50s) and is longish and she wears it either twisted up (which is my favorite) or in barrettes. She has a comfortable look about her.My pdoc doesn't wear suits - usually khakis and a button front shirt with the top button open and the sleeves rolled up. Also very relaxed.
P
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