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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 13, 2022, at 7:48:18
Or depression? I had it measured and it is quite high considering all the supplements I take. It might be the vaping and/or high stress levels.
Posted by linkadge on August 13, 2022, at 11:41:31
In reply to Could oxidative stress be a cause of anxiety?, posted by Lamdage22 on August 13, 2022, at 7:48:18
How / where did you have it measured?
Linkadge
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 13, 2022, at 11:51:41
In reply to Re: Could oxidative stress be a cause of anxiety?, posted by linkadge on August 13, 2022, at 11:41:31
8-oh-desoxyguanosin measured in morning urine. It seems to be a marker of DNA oxidation. My general health doctor did it. We wanted to assess my arteriosclerosis risk. I havent talked to him yet, he just sent me the result. It seems like the bad cholesterol oxidizes before it attaches to blood vessels.
It is 13,6 ng/ml
Posted by linkadge on August 13, 2022, at 18:19:05
In reply to Re: Could oxidative stress be a cause of anxiety?, posted by Lamdage22 on August 13, 2022, at 11:51:41
Hmm. Yeah, it does seem a bit high according to google. Oxidative stress could be a cause or symptom (or both) of mental or physical health disturbances.
Are you overweight?
How is your blood sugar?
What is your diet like?
Do you get exercise?If the above are ok, then I'd look to meds and/or mental health issues. Some meds can increase oxidative stress, but I don't know to what degree.
High oxidative stress can be associated with high anxiety states and (if this is the cause) it can normalize when anxiety comes down. I wouldn't rely on supplements. A balanced diet (yadi-yada) is probably much more effective.Linkadge
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 14, 2022, at 2:59:51
In reply to Re: Could oxidative stress be a cause of anxiety?, posted by linkadge on August 13, 2022, at 18:19:05
> Hmm. Yeah, it does seem a bit high according to google. Oxidative stress could be a cause or symptom (or both) of mental or physical health disturbances.
>
> Are you overweight?Yes, about 25 pounds. I am slowly losing some of it though
> How is your blood sugar?
It is within the reference range, but barely.
> What is your diet like?
Many supplements, not too healthy other than that. I bought a bunch of fruits and vegetables yesterday and I plan to incorporate them into my diet. I hear secondary plant substances are the way to go. And from food is bettter than supplements, although I plan to do both.
> Do you get exercise?
Yep, strength and to a slightly lesser degree endurance.
> If the above are ok, then I'd look to meds and/or mental health issues. Some meds can increase oxidative stress, but I don't know to what degree.
> High oxidative stress can be associated with high anxiety states and (if this is the cause) it can normalize when anxiety comes down. I wouldn't rely on supplements. A balanced diet (yadi-yada) is probably much more effective.
>
> LinkadgeI have ruminating anxiety. I obsess about everything that could go wrong every day. Maybe too much.
Do you think vaping can cause free radicals?
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 14, 2022, at 3:02:33
In reply to Re: Could oxidative stress be a cause of anxiety?, posted by Lamdage22 on August 14, 2022, at 2:59:51
Endurance is below average for my age group according to my smartwatch. (VO2Max) I am trying to get it to average until the end of the year.
Posted by SLS on August 14, 2022, at 12:44:33
In reply to Could oxidative stress be a cause of anxiety?, posted by Lamdage22 on August 13, 2022, at 7:48:18
> Or depression? I had it measured and it is quite high considering all the supplements I take. It might be the vaping and/or high stress levels.
I initially thought that you had the cause-and-effect reversed. I was wrong - of course.
There is a growing body of investigations concluding that oxidative stress leads to the genesis of anxiety. So the answer to your question is "Yes".
- Scott
Posted by Christ_empowered on August 14, 2022, at 13:26:10
In reply to Re: Could oxidative stress be a cause of anxiety? » Lamdage22, posted by SLS on August 14, 2022, at 12:44:33
Antioxidants (and high dose b-vitamins) can reduce oxidative stress and brighten mood, help anxiety and concentration. b-vitamins are a "thing" for Schizophrenia right now, apparently (the Internet told me so). For cognitive function and ADD/ADHD, Pycnogenol has been found somewhat helpful in small studies. I think it helps me, personally.Try not to over-think it. Personally, I think its being on 2 neuroleptics. Not that its necessarily a bad thing, just...the major tranquilizers generate free radicals. If I recall correctly, that may be part of what drives TD and the metabolic problems...free radicals.
I seriously think the easiest approach would be to add in some high potency antioxidants and just stick with them for a couple of months. alpha lipoic acid, maybe? small studies show a benefit in olanzapine-induced weight gain. I would say green tea extract, but...liver damage is becoming more of an issue, so...
Pycnogenol? Grape seed extract? some companies make Pomegranate extract.
Orthomolecular experts swear by the bascis. vitamin c, 3-4x daily. b complex. vitamin E. carotenoids (I ditched my beta carotene for astaxanthin, btw...seems to help).
sorry this is happening. hope this helps.
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 15, 2022, at 3:29:32
In reply to Re: Could oxidative stress be a cause of anxiety?, posted by Christ_empowered on August 14, 2022, at 13:26:10
So why is there this notion that mental health is seperate from physical health? There are known causes of mental distress that Psychmeds don't fix.
I was thinking S-Acetyl-Glutathione. I would like to give that a shot. It is the chief antioxidant.
Posted by Jay2112 on August 15, 2022, at 20:42:26
In reply to Re: Could oxidative stress be a cause of anxiety?, posted by Lamdage22 on August 14, 2022, at 2:59:51
>polite snip<
> > What is your diet like?
>
> Many supplements, not too healthy other than that. I bought a bunch of fruits and vegetables yesterday and I plan to incorporate them into my diet. I hear secondary plant substances are the way to go. And from food is bettter than supplements, although I plan to do both.
>
> > Do you get exercise?
>
> Yep, strength and to a slightly lesser degree endurance.
>
> > If the above are ok, then I'd look to meds and/or mental health issues. Some meds can increase oxidative stress, but I don't know to what degree.
> > High oxidative stress can be associated with high anxiety states and (if this is the cause) it can normalize when anxiety comes down. I wouldn't rely on supplements. A balanced diet (yadi-yada) is probably much more effective.
> >
> > Linkadge
>
> I have ruminating anxiety. I obsess about everything that could go wrong every day. Maybe too much.
>
> Do you think vaping can cause free radicals?
>Antipsychotics seem to promote oxidative stress, which is partly why you get dystonia and achy muscles with use. Vitamin E is the most studied antioxident. I'd also try to get plenty of folic acid...like, I mean 5+ mg's a day. You will feel immediate energy with folic acid. Don't forget Vit B6, about 100mg a day. That's for the serotonin volume. The rest...not much scientific evidence. Oh, pre/pro biotics.
Jay
Posted by Christ_empowered on August 16, 2022, at 10:25:21
In reply to Re: Could oxidative stress be a cause of anxiety? » Lamdage22, posted by Jay2112 on August 15, 2022, at 20:42:26
hi. me, yet again.
I think the main supplements I need/derive major benefits from are also...the most readily available and least expensive. b-100 @ 4 caps/daily (all the b vitamins at high doses, so I end up with 400mgs b6 per day, for instance)...
c at about 16 grams per day (4 doses of 4 grams, ideally)...
and E, in my case natural form plus some mixed tocopherols @ 2000 IU per day (primarily because I seem prone to EPS and probably TD, too). and then...
OM protocols almost -always- call for B3 in psych issues. Honestly? The 3 grams _/- niacinamide per day seems to help, but its not so much "anti-anxiety" as it is...mildly calming, overall. I still get intense anxiety at times, and I have both an as needed gabapentin Rx and then supplements, too.
and yet...
personally, topping off the fairly standard DIY OM protocol with astaxanthin @ 24mgws/day and Pycnogenol @ 100-200mgs/day seems...helpful. And not just with psych stuff.
:-)
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 19, 2022, at 10:02:03
In reply to Re: Could oxidative stress be a cause of anxiety?, posted by Christ_empowered on August 16, 2022, at 10:25:21
Thanks, I will research the suggestions considering Cytochrome P450 interactions of drugs with supplements. I ordered some 100mg S-Acetyl-Glutathione capsules.
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 19, 2022, at 10:05:53
In reply to Re: Could oxidative stress be a cause of anxiety?, posted by Lamdage22 on August 19, 2022, at 10:02:03
I am on OPC 300mg. Would it be safe to double?
Posted by Christ_empowered on August 19, 2022, at 18:26:26
In reply to Re: Could oxidative stress be a cause of anxiety?, posted by Lamdage22 on August 19, 2022, at 10:05:53
I dunno. most of the small studies funded by the pycnogenol people I've skimmed maxed out at 400 or 450mgs/daily. safe? I would think so? but it might b easier to just add something?
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 23, 2022, at 4:40:00
In reply to Re: Could oxidative stress be a cause of anxiety?, posted by Christ_empowered on August 16, 2022, at 10:25:21
I seem to tolerate the Pycnogenol well. I think I will aim at 200mg starting at 100mg. I also take 300 OPC from Grape seed extract.
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 23, 2022, at 4:41:13
In reply to Re: Could oxidative stress be a cause of anxiety?, posted by Lamdage22 on August 23, 2022, at 4:40:00
Astaxanthin is out, it has CYP 3A4 and CYP 2B6 interactions.
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 24, 2022, at 4:55:34
In reply to Re: Could oxidative stress be a cause of anxiety?, posted by Lamdage22 on August 23, 2022, at 4:41:13
This is stunning, there is no detoxing compound that doesnt make me very anxious. Does that mean I have s toxicity problem?
I was anxious almost psychotic yesterday for 30 mins. Could this be the pycnogenol? This usually doesnt happen very often.
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 28, 2022, at 8:18:36
In reply to Re: Could oxidative stress be a cause of anxiety?, posted by Lamdage22 on August 23, 2022, at 4:41:13
I tolerate both S-Acetyl-Gluathione and Pycnogenol well. 100 mg Pycno and 200 Gluathione.
Is there such a thing as too many Antioxidants?
Posted by Jay2112 on September 16, 2022, at 19:00:35
In reply to Every single detoxing compound worsens me, posted by Lamdage22 on August 24, 2022, at 4:55:34
> This is stunning, there is no detoxing compound that doesnt make me very anxious. Does that mean I have s toxicity problem?
>
> I was anxious almost psychotic yesterday for 30 mins. Could this be the pycnogenol? This usually doesnt happen very often.Sorry for the late post. Grape seed extract drives me up the freakin walls! Yes, almost psychotic. I think it activates both dopamine and choline, which are both very activating in higher doses. The grape seed extract is also notorious for causing gruelling panic attacks. Pycnogenol likely does the same, since they both act the same way.
I'd stick with vitamin e.
Jay
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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