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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by mworkman on October 10, 2005, at 19:21:30
It seems that nardil works pretty strongly on SE at 60 mg. It doesn't seem like it can keep work on SE that much more. Would higher dose work on more on NE and DE since SE has been pretty much used up? Or would it keep working on SE a lot more than NA or DE.
Posted by tecknohed on October 10, 2005, at 20:41:14
In reply to nardil-more NE and DE at higher doses, posted by mworkman on October 10, 2005, at 19:21:30
> It seems that nardil works pretty strongly on SE at 60 mg. It doesn't seem like it can keep work on SE that much more. Would higher dose work on more on NE and DE since SE has been pretty much used up? Or would it keep working on SE a lot more than NA or DE.
Hi.
I find the SE effect lasts indefinitely. It hasn't stopped yet after 2 years.
I think its DA effects were some of the first I felt as I was very social and active. Its worn off now. Dont think its had much NE effects. Of course being a 'complete' MAOI it should increase all 3 but then meds are so unpredictable, aren't they? I wonder if Nardil's GABA effect might actually drown out some of its activating properties. I reckon thats where alot of its sedative properties come from, rather than SE.
Dose adjustment most probably is your best bet, either up or down.
Regards,
Teck.
Posted by 4wd on October 10, 2005, at 23:47:21
In reply to Re: nardil-more NE and DE at higher doses » mworkman, posted by tecknohed on October 10, 2005, at 20:41:14
> > It seems that nardil works pretty strongly on SE at 60 mg. It doesn't seem like it can keep work on SE that much more. Would higher dose work on more on NE and DE since SE has been pretty much used up? Or would it keep working on SE a lot more than NA or DE.
>
> Hi.
>
> I find the SE effect lasts indefinitely. It hasn't stopped yet after 2 years.
>
> I think its DA effects were some of the first I felt as I was very social and active. Its worn off now. Dont think its had much NE effects. Of course being a 'complete' MAOI it should increase all 3 but then meds are so unpredictable, aren't they? I wonder if Nardil's GABA effect might actually drown out some of its activating properties. I reckon thats where alot of its sedative properties come from, rather than SE.
>
> Dose adjustment most probably is your best bet, either up or down.
>
> Regards,
> Teck.If Nardil is sedating why does it cause insomnia?
Marsha
Posted by tecknohed on October 11, 2005, at 5:05:29
In reply to Re: nardil-more NE and DE at higher doses » tecknohed, posted by 4wd on October 10, 2005, at 23:47:21
> If Nardil is sedating why does it cause insomnia?
>
> Marsha
>
From what I read insomnia is usually an early side effect which dies off. Fortunitely I never had that problem. SSRIs often cause insomnia (especially at first) AND daytime tiredness. Yet they mainly work on SE only. So maybe its the SE that gives some Nardil users insomnia.I tend to dismiss side effects during the early stages as not being a drugs main actions, but rather my system trying to adjust to it.
Teck.
Posted by mworkman on October 11, 2005, at 12:29:26
In reply to Re: nardil-more NE and DE at higher doses » tecknohed, posted by 4wd on October 10, 2005, at 23:47:21
It doesn't cause insomia in me. Can anybody answer my question? It seems like it would reach the max of mao-a to inhibit, so at higher doses it would inhibit more mao-b.
Posted by Declan on October 11, 2005, at 15:01:35
In reply to nardil-more NE and DE at higher doses, posted by mworkman on October 10, 2005, at 19:21:30
I'm afraid I can't answer your question. There is the sense in a lot of posts I've read that the SP effects only kick in at higher doses (than 60). But that's about GABA, I guess.
Declan
Posted by SLS on October 13, 2005, at 12:02:08
In reply to Re: nardil-more NE and DE at higher doses » tecknohed, posted by 4wd on October 10, 2005, at 23:47:21
> If Nardil is sedating why does it cause insomnia?
Hi Marsha.
Have you ever felt really tired, fatigued, and subdued without being sleepy? Have you ever been sleepy and still not able to fall asleep? Nardil seems to possess both stimulant and sedative properties. I don't want guess at the mechanisms behind each of these. It is tempting to want to always explain things by looking only at the "levels" of the three main monoamine neurotransmitters (NE, DA, 5-HT). It is quite possible that the insomnia is not caused by MAO inhibition, but rather by some other unrelated pharmacological property. Alternatively, MAO inhibition might be responsible for divergent activities in different brain circuits that are normally kept in balance by feedback mechanisms between the two that can no longer be maintained because of the indescriminant increase in neurotransmitter levels.
Parnate is a different beast in that it can cause profound sleepiness during the middle of the day and insomnia at night. Some of this might be due to the amphetamine-like effects of the drug and its metabolites.
- Scott
Posted by 4wd on October 16, 2005, at 15:43:06
In reply to Re: nardil-more NE and DE at higher doses » 4wd, posted by SLS on October 13, 2005, at 12:02:08
> > If Nardil is sedating why does it cause insomnia?
>
> Hi Marsha.
>
> Have you ever felt really tired, fatigued, and subdued without being sleepy?About 80 percent of the time. :-)
(except of course when I'm buzzing with freaky nervous fear).
Have you ever been sleepy and still not able to fall asleep? Nardil seems to possess both stimulant and sedative properties. I don't want guess at the mechanisms behind each of these. It is tempting to want to always explain things by looking only at the "levels" of the three main monoamine neurotransmitters (NE, DA, 5-HT). It is quite possible that the insomnia is not caused by MAO inhibition, but rather by some other unrelated pharmacological property. Alternatively, MAO inhibition might be responsible for divergent activities in different brain circuits that are normally kept in balance by feedback mechanisms between the two that can no longer be maintained because of the indescriminant increase in neurotransmitter levels.That makes sense. It will be nice someday when we have ad that will increase neurotransmitter levels individually and allow us to titrate each one indivually. I.e. I need 55% SE reuptake inhibition, 18% NE reuptake inhibition and 27% DE reuptake inhibition. Better yet, lets go for the individual receptors.
I guess first we need a bit more of a clue what each receptor does.
Marsha
> Parnate is a different beast in that it can cause profound sleepiness during the middle of the day and insomnia at night. Some of this might be due to the amphetamine-like effects of the drug and its metabolites.
>
>
> - Scott
This is the end of the thread.
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