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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tom Twilight on September 4, 2005, at 11:26:32
Sorry I feel like I'm suddenly posting a lot
That said I need the expertise of the good people of babble land.Firstly I'm finding that I often experience minor muscle twitches, for no apparent reason, especially when I in bed (trying vainly to sleep)
What could be causing this?
I've read that Magnesium, Calcium and Pottasium defficiency can cause muscle cramps/twitches?
Which is most likely?
I think Magnesium helps me with themSecondly I've suddenly got really paraniod about coffee.
I only drink it first thing in the morning. Could it still be affecting my sleep at night?When I stopped drinking coffee for a few days I did sleep better, but I was also away from home, which could of had an effect.
I really don't want to face mornings without coffee, but I think I'll have to withdraw.
I've heard coffee does deplete Magnesium, Calcium and Pottasium because its an acid diuretic.
I think it does make the twitches worse
Posted by rainbowbrite on September 4, 2005, at 11:58:26
In reply to Muscle twitches, why? Also Coffee and Insomnia, posted by Tom Twilight on September 4, 2005, at 11:26:32
> Firstly I'm finding that I often experience minor muscle twitches, for no apparent reason, especially when I in bed (trying vainly to sleep)
> What could be causing this?could it have anything to do with your medication?
> Secondly I've suddenly got really paraniod about coffee.
> I only drink it first thing in the morning.when you say, only first thing in the morning, do you mean one cup or 10 cups first thing in the morning?
>Could it still be affecting my sleep at night?
i think it depends on quantity, IMO i think it is unlikely. Coffee is wonderful and GOOD for you, in moderation I dont think it should affect the sleep of a regular user/
> When I stopped drinking coffee for a few days I did sleep better, but I was also away from home, which could of had an effect.I would test it out at home
> I really don't want to face mornings without coffee, but I think I'll have to withdraw.:-( mornings without coffee
> I've heard coffee does deplete Magnesium, Calcium and Pottasium because its an acid diuretic.
Its probably a combination but I dont imagine that 1 cup could deplete you (but im not an expert)
> I think it does make the twitches worse
test it out at home
Posted by spriggy on September 4, 2005, at 13:07:26
In reply to Re: Muscle twitches, why? Also Coffee and Insomnia, posted by rainbowbrite on September 4, 2005, at 11:58:26
Tom,
I get those weird "muscle" twitches too. I notice I seem to have them more when I am physically/emotionally exhausted. Even last night, I fell asleep on the couch and jerked so hard I woke myself up. It's weird.
I drink one cup of coffee in the morning- I have read it should leave your system before 12 hours so it depends on what time you're drinking it.If you still need the caffeine (but less of it), maybe try green tea. I switch out coffee and green tea on occasion.
Also, consider if you are drinking anything else throughout the day with caffeine. Cola's? Tea? even eating chocolate.
Good luck and I hope you find some answers.
Posted by Racer on September 4, 2005, at 13:48:48
In reply to Muscle twitches, why? Also Coffee and Insomnia, posted by Tom Twilight on September 4, 2005, at 11:26:32
>
>
> Firstly I'm finding that I often experience minor muscle twitches, for no apparent reason, especially when I in bed (trying vainly to sleep)
> What could be causing this?I had a big problem with muscle twitches on certain medications -- the worse combo was Zoloft, Lamictal, Provigil, and Xanax for sleep. On that combo, I was twitching so much I couldn't sleep, and nearly punched my husband a couple of times. It was quite frightening, and very tiring. Once I stopped the meds, it took a while for everything to get back to normal, but the twitches themselves stopped within days.
My guess is that this is med-related for you, as well. What are you on?
> I've read that Magnesium, Calcium and Pottasium defficiency can cause muscle cramps/twitches?
> Which is most likely?
> I think Magnesium helps me with themThis is half-understood, and half-remembered, but I think that calcium and magnesium are close in atomic size, so if you are a bit off in the ratio between them, the calcium will replace the magnesium in your muscles and be used up faster than the magnesium. That means that you'll be more vulnerable to cramping, etc, because you'll run out of calcium. The ratio I've read is to take in about half as much magnesium as calcium, and then you'll be using the magnesium which is much more efficient in your muscle tissues.
Potassium, though, can be dangerous. It's part of your electrical system, and if it gets out of whack you can have major problems quickly. I've had some of the problems associated with low potassium, and that's not something you ever want to experience. On the other hand, too much can apparently trigger little problems like heart attacks and seizures and so on. Again, not what you want. The very first thing my nutritionist said was to throw away the potassium tablets I was taking -- tablets that were 3% of the RDA, so we're not talking a lot -- saying that even the tiny amounts were too much. She says that it's easy to get enough potassium in even a not great diet.
If you're really worried, instead of supplements in pill form, drink some Gatorade.
>
> Secondly I've suddenly got really paraniod about coffee.
> I only drink it first thing in the morning. Could it still be affecting my sleep at night?
>
> When I stopped drinking coffee for a few days I did sleep better, but I was also away from home, which could of had an effect.
>
> I really don't want to face mornings without coffee, but I think I'll have to withdraw.
>
> I think it does make the twitches worse
>Those are things to try out at home. If you sleep better at home without coffee, or your twitches are better without coffee, then it might be worth cutting it out. Also, do check the caffeine content of your diet the rest of the day.
Personally, I can't drink "real" coffee at all -- I get way too shaky, and usually throw up. Decaf has about half as much caffeine as regular coffee, so that might be a compromise for you.
Keep in mind that caffeine does have a strong withdrawal syndrome. Expect headaches -- really nasty headaches -- and probably some constipation if you try to quit cold turkey. Cutting back, though, should be OK if you're not drinking coffee by the pot. And, again, decaf is a quick and easy way to cut your caffeine consumption in half, while still enjoying your morning cup of java.
Hope that helps.
Posted by Nickengland on September 4, 2005, at 15:33:34
In reply to Muscle twitches, why? Also Coffee and Insomnia, posted by Tom Twilight on September 4, 2005, at 11:26:32
Hi Tom
I've had the muscle twitches at night before going to sleep aswell, basically when i'm just about to drop off to sleep and suddenly `jolt" or I jerk ~ Myoclonic Jerks is the correct medical term I think, and i've read that its common with people in epilepsy to have these and in those cases they often have them upon waking. It happens to normal healthy people though without epilepsy or mental illness so in some respects..it is normal.
That said i've had them more often when I changed to the medication i'm taking now and the jerks have been very severe to say the least! like i'm being hit with a huge electrical stun gun or something lol I couldn't understand it as i'm taking 2 anticonvulsants, until I read that Gabapentin can actually make Myoclonic seizures worse with people with eplilepsy. I never had the jerks when I took the drug by itself, but since I now take it with Topiramate, I've had them. (didnt have them with topiramate when I took that by its self either) The best i've found to reduce them and actually stop them is the timing of when I take the gabapentin ~ I now take it at least 5-6 hours before I go to sleep and usually theres no problem.
I can only suggest that its the medication your taking, based on my experience ~ and from what I know alot of antidepressants lower the seizure threshold.... You could try changing the timing of when you take your medication ~ as in don't take just before you go bed?...what time do you take your medication?
I think clonazepam and sodium valproate are 2 drugs that are pretty good for treating Myoclonic Jerks..
With the coffee, I used to love that myself and used to have quite alot of sugar in my diet, but i've cut it out now, for the past 3 or 4 months and feel better for it. Not to scare you off coffee as I know people love it their coffee! lol... according to a book I have caffeine is a powerful drug, it acts directly upon the centeral nervous system. It gives you the boost and clearer thoughts and lessons fatigue...it also stimulates the release of stored sugar from the liver, which accounts for the "lift" coffee, cola and chocolate give. The benefits may be far outweighed by the side effects though..
The release of stored sugar places heavey stress on the endocrine system. Heavy coffee drinkers often develop nervousness or become jittery.
Theres lots of other information (I have the book in front of me) it says excessive intake of methylzanthines (active chemicals in caffeine) can cause benign breast disease and prostate problems.
It goes on to says more information and also says people who drink five cups of coffee daily have a 50 percent greater chance of having heart-attacks than non coffee drinkers!...according to a British Medical Journal.
I guess one daily cup of coffee in the morning isn't so bad though! Quiting coffee can be like, well it is withdrawing from a drug, in my case I loved fresh coffee, but now I've been free from it I do feel better for it..
Hope that helps
Kind regards
Nick
Posted by Phillipa on September 4, 2005, at 19:15:31
In reply to Re: Muscle twitches, why? Also Coffee and Insomnia » Tom Twilight, posted by Nickengland on September 4, 2005, at 15:33:34
So how does the caffeine in chocolate related to the caffeine in coffee? Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Tom Twilight on September 5, 2005, at 4:11:44
In reply to Re: Muscle twitches, why? Also Coffee and Insomnia, posted by Phillipa on September 4, 2005, at 19:15:31
Sorry this was a bit of a silly post, I was just so tired it affected my jugment!
My thanks to everyone who respondedI very much doubt Coffee/Caffeine is affecting my sleep, I drink to cups in the morning thats all.
I'm not anti caffeine at all, it does have very good effects. However it probably does effect Magnesium and Calcium levels, which could be a problem if your low on them.I tried Pottasium to see if it would help the twitches.
It just made me feel anxious and horrible like it normally does.Magnesium seems to reduce them though
I suspect Magnesium defficiency is often a factor in some physical and mental problems
Posted by Cecilia on September 6, 2005, at 1:29:36
In reply to Re: Muscle twitches, why? Thanks everyone!, posted by Tom Twilight on September 5, 2005, at 4:11:44
Aren`t you on a MAOI, Tom? MAOI`s can definitely cause muscle twitches. Vitamin B6 is said to help. Cecilia
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