![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Kath on July 5, 2000, at 12:38:18
Hi All,
My husband & I had a great weekend. Marvellous hikes on the Bruce Trail - deep moss-covered caverns to walk through, forests, flower-filled fields, far-stretching views from high hills, sunny warmth & gentle breezes; sitting on a hill reading in the sun. A very relaxing time & we stayed Saturday nite at a cute bed & breakfast.
After our 16 yr-old son had been whereabouts-unknown for several days the previous weekend, we didn't want him to have access to the house, so gave our friend the key to come in & feed our cat & told our son and his friends that nobody except our friend was allowed into the house until we returned. Our son had been invited to his sister's about 2 hours drive from us & we were going to see her Friday anyway so offered to drive him to stay there. He didn't want to; told him he'd have to make other arrangements since the house would be locked. Came home Sunday to find he'd been in the house; he climbed in through a basement window. Although he'd locked the door when he left, the rec room lights were on, the VCR was on, and his room REEKED of pot. He's not allowed to have drugs on our property, to say nothing of smoking in our home!! When he came home, told him we'd have to decide what we were going to do about it. Had a big talk with him...explained that if in future, the house rules were broken in a major way (gave some examples) that it was like a ballgame - 3 strikes & you're out - Strike 1 - he'd have to be off our property for 2 full days, then phone, make arrangements to meet at a coffee shop & go over the rules. Strike 2 - 4 days off the property; coffee shop meeting to make sure he understood the severity of the situation. Strike 3 - he'd have to find somewhere else to live. We told him that if the situation was bad enough, it would be straight to Strike #3. To show him that we care about more of a relationship than just scolding him, we invited him to a movie with us. He wanted to spend time with his friends instead so we drove them to LazerQuest on our way to the movie.
Next day (yesterday) he got in a "snit" with me about how I didn't trust him & what was the use of acting in a trustworthy manner if I don't trust him anyway! I said the trust has to be rebuilt & he stormed out, to return a little later. I went to chat awhile across the road with my neighbour on her front lawn. My son came out of the house, returned my wave, then walked down the street with shoulders hunched & "don't talk to me" body-language. When I went home & went to put something in my purse I found that the $160 I'd just taken out of the bank to pay some bills was gone. All of the money in my purse was gone! I was simply in shock. He's never stolen from us before. I was sick & felt that it was MY FAULT somehow (which a part of me knows is nonsense). Anyway, he didn't come back last night. My husband & I decided that it's straight to Strike 3. After all we've gone through with him, we don't feel okay to have him live here if his behaviour is escalating. I'm not prepared to have to lock stuff up in my own home from my own son! I packed a knapsack of his clothes, toothbrush, etc. I put in an envelope a card with a list of help-agency phone numbers, shelter #'s & his workers from school #'s. I also put a $10 phone card to help me know he has a way to phone the various resources. If feels extremely yucky. I hate to put him out, but he's being very defiant, not willing to obey our rules, etc. It feels pretty awful. When he wasn't using for those 9 days when he was sick, he was his old normal self & we were talking & getting along well, etc. He's a different person when he's smoking pot all the time & I never know WHO I'm going to be talking to. I do need some support around this situation. I think I just need to know that people are aware of what I'm dealing with. It's hard for me to know that we're doing the right thing; people I've spoken to say we are. It's scarey. We have made our decision that we simply can't have him living here under these circumstances & we do believe that we're doing what is best for him.
I'm feeling pretty calm though, which is surprising & I'm very thankful for it.
Thanks for listening. Kath
Posted by noa on July 5, 2000, at 13:05:07
In reply to Nice weekend; yucky home-coming - help, posted by Kath on July 5, 2000, at 12:38:18
Wow. You are dealing with a rough situation.
It sounds like you are being reasonable.
Are there inpatient detox/drug rehab places you could commit him to, or require him to be in in order to consider returning home?
What kind of school does he go to, and are there people there that could give you support around this?
Dealing with this in a boundary-setting and boundary-protecting manner makes sense. You are handling it reasonably, sanely. You aren't flying into a rage, or retaliating against him as a person. Like you said, trust requires building.
Posted by Kath on July 5, 2000, at 13:33:59
In reply to Re: Nice weekend; yucky home-coming - help, posted by noa on July 5, 2000, at 13:05:07
> Wow. You are dealing with a rough situation.
>
> It sounds like you are being reasonable.
>
> Are there inpatient detox/drug rehab places you could commit him to, or require him to be in in order to consider returning home?...........You know, that's an idea. In March, when he turned 16 & we no longer legally had to provide him with shelter, we said that while we perceived him to have a drug problem, he could live in our home only if he was in drug treatment. We then gave him a list of 6 places. Some were residential abstinence-based. He chose a day-treatment school/substance abuse program, which is more "harm-reduction" based. We felt it dealt with his school-related problems as well, and that since he didn't want to stop using, it might help him to see if he could cut back & get it under control (occasional use perhaps). He went there reluctantly (doesn't want to get a job & move out). The only reason he went there was so he could keep living here. I think he's a bit scared of where he's heading, but still is in a smoking-up daily life-style. Maybe this time, we might look at the requirement for living here to be that he attended an abstinence-based program. I did alot of research into what programs are available, and they seem to require that the person WANTS to be there. At this point, my son doesn't, but he doesn't yet know that he's not going to be able to live here as things now stand. Regarding his drug use, I think he has to "hit bottom" (different for everybody) and maybe not being allowed on our property will be bottom for him. Thanks for this suggestion, it gives me something to consider.
> What kind of school does he go to, and are there people there that could give you support around this?
.............Yes, although his day-treatment is finished 'til the Fall, I am in touch with his workers there, and will be having a "phone-meeting" with the family counsillor (sp?) there this aft. I've got friends who are good supports too, but this is a big deal for me, so I thought I'd mention it here as well.
> Dealing with this in a boundary-setting and boundary-protecting manner makes sense. You are handling it reasonably, sanely. You aren't flying into a rage, or retaliating against him as a person. Like you said, trust requires building.
...........Thanks for your support!! Feels good.
How are you doing? I really don't get time to read all the posts, so sometimes don't know how people are. Hope you're okay.Kath
Posted by CarolAnn on July 5, 2000, at 17:25:47
In reply to Nice weekend; yucky home-coming - help, posted by Kath on July 5, 2000, at 12:38:18
Kath,
I'm sorry you're having such a rough time. I wish I could offer more in the way of support, but just don't have a basis for comparison(my daughter is only two).
Just one thought: since you are going to speak to a family councelor, it might be an idea to make family councelling sessions part of the "deal" of moving back home. I know it is hard to look at things from his perspective, but he probably feels that it's a 'two against one' and a "you just don't understand me" type of situation. If you decide to make family counceling a part of the package, maybe you could explain it to your son as a "we want to learn how to understand you" type of thing. I know I have no right to advise on this, but I've done a lot of reading, and I do know that people are more cooperative if they truly believe that you are doing something for "their" sake rather then for "your own" sake. Good luck, and I'll be praying for you all. CarolAnn
Posted by Kath on July 5, 2000, at 20:16:10
In reply to Re: Nice weekend; yucky home-coming - help, posted by CarolAnn on July 5, 2000, at 17:25:47
Thanks CarolAnn- I welcome all input, even from people who don't have kids or whose kids are just little.
We do have a family councellor who is part of my son's day-treatment staff & we've been to a few sessions. I spoke with her today. She said that once my husband & I are over the hurt a little bit more, and if our son calls her, she's there for our family in whatever way, so I really expect that at some point we'll end up there. I think hubby & I need a little time out without ongoing daily son-stuff to deal with and I think our son needs a little time out too, to realize that maybe we really mean that we simply can't live like this anymore. Thx for your comments. They do help me keep things in perspective. Usually I get way too "empathetic" & almost feel my son's perceived feelings for him and that prevents me from doing what is probably best as a parent. When things get really bad like now, perhaps I flip way far to the other end of the emotional scale & feel "to H... with him, I've had enough". Thx for nudging me back towards the centre!!
Kath
> Kath,
> I'm sorry you're having such a rough time. I wish I could offer more in the way of support, but just don't have a basis for comparison(my daughter is only two).
> Just one thought: since you are going to speak to a family councelor, it might be an idea to make family councelling sessions part of the "deal" of moving back home. I know it is hard to look at things from his perspective, but he probably feels that it's a 'two against one' and a "you just don't understand me" type of situation. If you decide to make family counceling a part of the package, maybe you could explain it to your son as a "we want to learn how to understand you" type of thing. I know I have no right to advise on this, but I've done a lot of reading, and I do know that people are more cooperative if they truly believe that you are doing something for "their" sake rather then for "your own" sake. Good luck, and I'll be praying for you all. CarolAnn
Posted by KarenB on July 5, 2000, at 20:24:49
In reply to Nice weekend; yucky home-coming - help, posted by Kath on July 5, 2000, at 12:38:18
Kath,
You're doing the right thing...but I'm sure it feels awful.
My boys are 5 and 2 1/2 but in some ways, parenting is the same: NO HAS TO REALLY MEAN NO. Know what I mean?
Stay strong and hold your ground...but be there if he decides to really commit to make some changes. Let him know you'll love him, no matter what.
Karen
Posted by Kath on July 5, 2000, at 20:50:42
In reply to Re: Nice weekend; yucky home-coming » Kath, posted by KarenB on July 5, 2000, at 20:24:49
Thanks Karen - I appreciate all you said. Good to hear the things I know & have reminders, because I get so caught up in the emotions.
Thx alot. Kath
> Kath,
>
> You're doing the right thing...but I'm sure it feels awful.
>
> My boys are 5 and 2 1/2 but in some ways, parenting is the same: NO HAS TO REALLY MEAN NO. Know what I mean?
>
> Stay strong and hold your ground...but be there if he decides to really commit to make some changes. Let him know you'll love him, no matter what.
>
> Karen
Posted by tdaneen on July 6, 2000, at 9:23:21
In reply to Nice weekend; yucky home-coming - help, posted by Kath on July 5, 2000, at 12:38:18
Empathy Kath, a great gift, and sometimes the bane of our existance. I hurt for you, and feel your hope, and strange mixed emotions. Weird, huh.
I know you are doing the right thing. It is a hard road to travel. My daughter is only four, and I have difficulty at times knowing and feeling EXACTLY what she is feeling. That makes it hard for me to do the right thing in my job as a mommy. I do it anyway, yucky as I feel about it sometimes.
Is your husband supporting you emotionally? Does he have an outlet for his stress over this too?
Kath, you are such a source of strength and positive energy to those on this board, I just want you to know, that after what has happened to me here in the last week, I have
looked to you and a few others as kindred voices.Take your meds (if you have any that you take) see your doc, or therapist (if you see one) make sure your support network is on order. Remember, you have to take care of yourself first, before you can take care of others.
There are many here who love and respect you. Who would listen to you ramble (or babble, right?) on and on...
smile, and if you need them, they are here for you to lean on.tdaneen
Posted by Jennifer on July 6, 2000, at 15:32:58
In reply to Nice weekend; yucky home-coming - help, posted by Kath on July 5, 2000, at 12:38:18
Kath,
Glad to hear that you and your husband were able to have a great time together on you weekend! Shows that despite the situation at home, you still love and support each other. I'm sorry about how tough things are with your son. I have a few suggestions...you may find some a bit strong. Although my girls are not to his age yet, I did go through this with my younger brother. (who by the way is an awesome father and spouse, in a manangerial position, and owns a home 10 yrs after all this). In addition, my husband deals with this stuff through some of his work. I don't know the full story on your son, so my suggestions are based only on my knowledge of the situation.
Since you son is minor, you are required to provide care for him if you live in the USA. You don't want to be caught in a legal battle over lack of care. Is he an emancipated minor? Perhaps you could help him with that process. That takes away YOUR liability for any of his wrongdoings. If he stole $160 from you, you're not the only one he has done it to. This is a drug behavior, and you can be liable for any damage he causes to others property or person. PROTECT YOURSELF!
If he stole the money from you, you need to report it to the police. The police report will be very helpful to you down the road if you need more help. Just becuase he is your son doesn't give him the right to steal without police intervention. If he gets pissed off at you and trashes your house, would you call the police? Of course! You need a documented history of his behavior.
I told my parents that my brother was on drugs. I'm sure they knew, but were in denial. That ended when he called them from jail in another state. My dad had to drive there to bail him out...and he got his first ever speeding ticket on the way which didn't help my brother one bit! Yes, my bother got a misdemeanor on his record. So what! He deserved it!. They set the condition that if he used drugs, he could no longer live at their house. He was 19 at the time, and failing in collee. I found out a month or so later that he was at it again. I told him to get his butt over to my house. I yelled him up one side and down the other. Told him his behavior was disgusting and really hurt our parents. And I cried. He had NEVER seen me act like that before. Kind of shocked him. I gave him an ultimatum that he would have to attend Narcotics Anonymous every single night for a month, and my husband would escort him there to ensure his attendance. If he missed one meeting, I would rat him out to mom & dad. Of course, my parents wanted to know where the heck he was off to every night, so I had to tell them. (although my brother never knew). I think my parents were relieved that they didn't have to kick him out, and that I had made him do something "or else". After that, he never did drugs again...he never knew that I told my parents..he was on the Dean's List the next semester at school, and has been awesome since. Does this always happen? NO. But people absulutely, positively have to know that there are consequences to their behavior.
If he is going to stay at your house, you only need to provide him room and board. Lock up your prized possessions or move them to a friends house for awhile. He has earned NO TRUST, so take the door off the hinges to his room for 6 months minimum. He only needs a few items of clothing and a bed. If he has stereo stuff, CD's etc, that you have given him, take it back. Sell enough to pay back your $160. He does not deserve any extra's. Put his things in storage or somewhere where he can EARN them back. NOT through acceptable behavior, but through extra chores/duries. Acceptable behavior is EXPECTED, and does not get rewarded other than to earn your door back, and maybe phone priveledges.
I'm so pissed at him right now I could scream...and I understand how awful you feel. Wanting to mother him, hating how he is on drugs. He may turn around and surprise you. All you can do is treat him as you would any other sketched out druggie that steals...with NO trust, NO rewards for reasonable behavior and NO guilt. HE has made tese choices. Yes CHOICES. Not you. He has free will to choose as he sees fit. Do not feel any guilt for taking things away from him that he does not deserve, calling the police, mandating work. These are the consequences of his behavior, and there are too many people out there that don't understand what consequences are, and they go on to be awful adults.
My prayrers are with you so much. You both have the strength to deal with this. Be sure to take care of yourself, becuase without that, it is all for not. I'm so happy you seem to have a supportive spouse. I know how much of a godsend that is. If you do any counseling, make sure you two go together without your son at first. Your son will do anything to drive you two apart. It makes it easier on him. 2 against 1 isn't fun!
By the way, I don't know if he is attending school, but is he is, and if there is a school resource police officer, call him and make sure he is aware of this. Our schoool resource officer would pick up our neighbors son at home if he failed to show up at school. Plus, he would bring him home if he found him out at night. It was really cool. Whenever other officers have altercations with juveniles, they leave a note for the resource officer, who gets on them the next day at school too. They feel like the police are really keeping an eye on them. It's quite a trip...and helps. Use all the resources that are available to you! Remember you are your son's parent, not friend. Love and prayers to you, Jennifer
> Hi All,
>
> My husband & I had a great weekend. Marvellous hikes on the Bruce Trail - deep moss-covered caverns to walk through, forests, flower-filled fields, far-stretching views from high hills, sunny warmth & gentle breezes; sitting on a hill reading in the sun. A very relaxing time & we stayed Saturday nite at a cute bed & breakfast.
>
> After our 16 yr-old son had been whereabouts-unknown for several days the previous weekend, we didn't want him to have access to the house, so gave our friend the key to come in & feed our cat & told our son and his friends that nobody except our friend was allowed into the house until we returned. Our son had been invited to his sister's about 2 hours drive from us & we were going to see her Friday anyway so offered to drive him to stay there. He didn't want to; told him he'd have to make other arrangements since the house would be locked. Came home Sunday to find he'd been in the house; he climbed in through a basement window. Although he'd locked the door when he left, the rec room lights were on, the VCR was on, and his room REEKED of pot. He's not allowed to have drugs on our property, to say nothing of smoking in our home!! When he came home, told him we'd have to decide what we were going to do about it. Had a big talk with him...explained that if in future, the house rules were broken in a major way (gave some examples) that it was like a ballgame - 3 strikes & you're out - Strike 1 - he'd have to be off our property for 2 full days, then phone, make arrangements to meet at a coffee shop & go over the rules. Strike 2 - 4 days off the property; coffee shop meeting to make sure he understood the severity of the situation. Strike 3 - he'd have to find somewhere else to live. We told him that if the situation was bad enough, it would be straight to Strike #3. To show him that we care about more of a relationship than just scolding him, we invited him to a movie with us. He wanted to spend time with his friends instead so we drove them to LazerQuest on our way to the movie.
>
> Next day (yesterday) he got in a "snit" with me about how I didn't trust him & what was the use of acting in a trustworthy manner if I don't trust him anyway! I said the trust has to be rebuilt & he stormed out, to return a little later. I went to chat awhile across the road with my neighbour on her front lawn. My son came out of the house, returned my wave, then walked down the street with shoulders hunched & "don't talk to me" body-language. When I went home & went to put something in my purse I found that the $160 I'd just taken out of the bank to pay some bills was gone. All of the money in my purse was gone! I was simply in shock. He's never stolen from us before. I was sick & felt that it was MY FAULT somehow (which a part of me knows is nonsense). Anyway, he didn't come back last night. My husband & I decided that it's straight to Strike 3. After all we've gone through with him, we don't feel okay to have him live here if his behaviour is escalating. I'm not prepared to have to lock stuff up in my own home from my own son! I packed a knapsack of his clothes, toothbrush, etc. I put in an envelope a card with a list of help-agency phone numbers, shelter #'s & his workers from school #'s. I also put a $10 phone card to help me know he has a way to phone the various resources. If feels extremely yucky. I hate to put him out, but he's being very defiant, not willing to obey our rules, etc. It feels pretty awful. When he wasn't using for those 9 days when he was sick, he was his old normal self & we were talking & getting along well, etc. He's a different person when he's smoking pot all the time & I never know WHO I'm going to be talking to. I do need some support around this situation. I think I just need to know that people are aware of what I'm dealing with. It's hard for me to know that we're doing the right thing; people I've spoken to say we are. It's scarey. We have made our decision that we simply can't have him living here under these circumstances & we do believe that we're doing what is best for him.
>
> I'm feeling pretty calm though, which is surprising & I'm very thankful for it.
>
> Thanks for listening. Kath
Posted by Kath on July 6, 2000, at 16:27:50
In reply to Re: Nice weekend; yucky home-coming - help, posted by tdaneen on July 6, 2000, at 9:23:21
Hi tdaneen - Thanks soooo much. I'm going to answer throughout your post....
> Empathy Kath, a great gift, and sometimes the bane of our existance. I hurt for you, and feel your hope, and strange mixed emotions. Weird, huh.
> I know you are doing the right thing. It is a hard road to travel.
.........thx - I believe I'm doing the right thing, but you're so right. It IS hard. Today he phoned & when asked what he had to say, said he guessed he made a mistake. Then proceeded to say "ya know the support money you get for me?" (his biological dad sends support $ monthly) "well, I never see it. You could give it to me and you could deduct the $160 out of this payment, and I could get my own place for the summer." (Can you believe it - as if I'm going to do that after his behaviour & given that he's got a major problem with daily use of marijuana!!) I simply told him that I suggest he contacts his worker or some of the other resources on the list I gave him. When I asked him if there was any money left he said no. Makes sense that he didn't contact us 'til it was all gone! $160 gone in about a day & a half!>My daughter is only four, and I have difficulty at times knowing and feeling EXACTLY what she is feeling. That makes it hard for me to do the right thing in my job as a mommy. I do it anyway, yucky as I feel about it sometimes.
> Is your husband supporting you emotionally? Does he have an outlet for his stress over this too?
...........My husband is majorly supportive. Fortunately, we're both at the same place as to the fact that we can't have him living here under these circumstances. My husband is very fair & even though we scoured my purse for the $ wanted to hear from our son that he actually took it, so I'm glad he said he did instead of making up some stupid lie. As to my husband having an outlet for his stress, I'm not as sure about that, but we really share our feelings with each other alot & he doesn't find it as hard as I do to take a firm stand, so his stress is a different kind. On the weekend we made a definite commitment to spending fun time together more often to help balance things out.> Kath, you are such a source of strength and positive energy to those on this board, I just want you to know, that after what has happened to me here in the last week, I have
looked to you and a few others as kindred voices.
..............Thanks tdaneen, I'm glad I was able to help a bit. I was very upset about what happened & I really hoped it wouldn't turn you off PB.
> Take your meds (if you have any that you take)
.........yup - Celexa 20 mg at bedtime - love it - even through all this, I'm not feeling super anxious. Yucky, but not anxious.see your doc, or therapist (if you see one) make sure your support network is on order.
................I will make a doc appt. - thx for the suggestion. He knows the whole story & is very supportive. My therapist is on holiday (poo), but I have an appt booked as soon as he gets back. There's also a pdoc I see about every 2nd or 3rd week, who was originally my son's! I think I'll book with her sooner than what is already booked. I do have people I can phone & they are helpful & of course people here.Remember, you have to take care of yourself first, before you can take care of others.
..........thx - over the past couple of days, I've suggested that to people here - so I will do it for myself too!!> There are many here who love and respect you. Who would listen to you ramble (or babble, right?) on and on...
> smile, and if you need them, they are here for you to lean on.
.................Thanks very much for your support. It really means alot, alot, alot. And everyone else's also.How are things for you? If you feel like telling, I'd be glad to hear.
Kath
Posted by Kath on July 6, 2000, at 16:49:13
In reply to Re: yucky home-coming - help(long) » Kath, posted by Jennifer on July 6, 2000, at 15:32:58
Hi Jennifer - Thanks very much for this. You have no idea how good it was for me to read it. Fortunately I'm in Canada & here, we have to provide shelter/food etc. only until the kid is 16. The last 3 months of his 15th year I had the #'s written on the calendar -> 50 ->49 ->48 etc. It helped me alot. I've printed your post, as I have done others & keep them in my purse & re-read them. My husband is super supportive & thank God we're at the same place as to how to handle this. I am not even considering taking our son back into our home right now. We haven't give thought to conditions, but probably attending NA meetings or perhaps having been through a residential treatment program. He's been attending a day-treatment/school program since April but I really believe he only went because we told him that while he has a drug problem he could live here ONLY if he went to a program. The program ended for the summer. We've supported him so much & been here for him; attended family councelling sessions with him, but
we came to the conclusion that we wouldn't continue right now because it was obvious he wasn't interested in working things out, only in getting what HE wanted.I'm glad your letter was STRONG. I'm going to show it to my husband. Thank you ALOT. My husband & I are taking his elderly Dad out for dinner at a restaurant that I really like tonite so that will be good.
How are you? I hope you're taking care of yourself. Let me know when you feel like it.
Hugs, Kath
Kath,
> Glad to hear that you and your husband were able to have a great time together on you weekend! Shows that despite the situation at home, you still love and support each other. I'm sorry about how tough things are with your son. I have a few suggestions...you may find some a bit strong. Although my girls are not to his age yet, I did go through this with my younger brother. (who by the way is an awesome father and spouse, in a manangerial position, and owns a home 10 yrs after all this). In addition, my husband deals with this stuff through some of his work. I don't know the full story on your son, so my suggestions are based only on my knowledge of the situation.
> Since you son is minor, you are required to provide care for him if you live in the USA. You don't want to be caught in a legal battle over lack of care. Is he an emancipated minor? Perhaps you could help him with that process. That takes away YOUR liability for any of his wrongdoings. If he stole $160 from you, you're not the only one he has done it to. This is a drug behavior, and you can be liable for any damage he causes to others property or person. PROTECT YOURSELF!
> If he stole the money from you, you need to report it to the police. The police report will be very helpful to you down the road if you need more help. Just becuase he is your son doesn't give him the right to steal without police intervention. If he gets pissed off at you and trashes your house, would you call the police? Of course! You need a documented history of his behavior.
> I told my parents that my brother was on drugs. I'm sure they knew, but were in denial. That ended when he called them from jail in another state. My dad had to drive there to bail him out...and he got his first ever speeding ticket on the way which didn't help my brother one bit! Yes, my bother got a misdemeanor on his record. So what! He deserved it!. They set the condition that if he used drugs, he could no longer live at their house. He was 19 at the time, and failing in collee. I found out a month or so later that he was at it again. I told him to get his butt over to my house. I yelled him up one side and down the other. Told him his behavior was disgusting and really hurt our parents. And I cried. He had NEVER seen me act like that before. Kind of shocked him. I gave him an ultimatum that he would have to attend Narcotics Anonymous every single night for a month, and my husband would escort him there to ensure his attendance. If he missed one meeting, I would rat him out to mom & dad. Of course, my parents wanted to know where the heck he was off to every night, so I had to tell them. (although my brother never knew). I think my parents were relieved that they didn't have to kick him out, and that I had made him do something "or else". After that, he never did drugs again...he never knew that I told my parents..he was on the Dean's List the next semester at school, and has been awesome since. Does this always happen? NO. But people absulutely, positively have to know that there are consequences to their behavior.
> If he is going to stay at your house, you only need to provide him room and board. Lock up your prized possessions or move them to a friends house for awhile. He has earned NO TRUST, so take the door off the hinges to his room for 6 months minimum. He only needs a few items of clothing and a bed. If he has stereo stuff, CD's etc, that you have given him, take it back. Sell enough to pay back your $160. He does not deserve any extra's. Put his things in storage or somewhere where he can EARN them back. NOT through acceptable behavior, but through extra chores/duries. Acceptable behavior is EXPECTED, and does not get rewarded other than to earn your door back, and maybe phone priveledges.
> I'm so pissed at him right now I could scream...and I understand how awful you feel. Wanting to mother him, hating how he is on drugs. He may turn around and surprise you. All you can do is treat him as you would any other sketched out druggie that steals...with NO trust, NO rewards for reasonable behavior and NO guilt. HE has made tese choices. Yes CHOICES. Not you. He has free will to choose as he sees fit. Do not feel any guilt for taking things away from him that he does not deserve, calling the police, mandating work. These are the consequences of his behavior, and there are too many people out there that don't understand what consequences are, and they go on to be awful adults.
> My prayrers are with you so much. You both have the strength to deal with this. Be sure to take care of yourself, becuase without that, it is all for not. I'm so happy you seem to have a supportive spouse. I know how much of a godsend that is. If you do any counseling, make sure you two go together without your son at first. Your son will do anything to drive you two apart. It makes it easier on him. 2 against 1 isn't fun!
> By the way, I don't know if he is attending school, but is he is, and if there is a school resource police officer, call him and make sure he is aware of this. Our schoool resource officer would pick up our neighbors son at home if he failed to show up at school. Plus, he would bring him home if he found him out at night. It was really cool. Whenever other officers have altercations with juveniles, they leave a note for the resource officer, who gets on them the next day at school too. They feel like the police are really keeping an eye on them. It's quite a trip...and helps. Use all the resources that are available to you! Remember you are your son's parent, not friend. Love and prayers to you, Jennifer
>
>
>
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > My husband & I had a great weekend. Marvellous hikes on the Bruce Trail - deep moss-covered caverns to walk through, forests, flower-filled fields, far-stretching views from high hills, sunny warmth & gentle breezes; sitting on a hill reading in the sun. A very relaxing time & we stayed Saturday nite at a cute bed & breakfast.
> >
> > After our 16 yr-old son had been whereabouts-unknown for several days the previous weekend, we didn't want him to have access to the house, so gave our friend the key to come in & feed our cat & told our son and his friends that nobody except our friend was allowed into the house until we returned. Our son had been invited to his sister's about 2 hours drive from us & we were going to see her Friday anyway so offered to drive him to stay there. He didn't want to; told him he'd have to make other arrangements since the house would be locked. Came home Sunday to find he'd been in the house; he climbed in through a basement window. Although he'd locked the door when he left, the rec room lights were on, the VCR was on, and his room REEKED of pot. He's not allowed to have drugs on our property, to say nothing of smoking in our home!! When he came home, told him we'd have to decide what we were going to do about it. Had a big talk with him...explained that if in future, the house rules were broken in a major way (gave some examples) that it was like a ballgame - 3 strikes & you're out - Strike 1 - he'd have to be off our property for 2 full days, then phone, make arrangements to meet at a coffee shop & go over the rules. Strike 2 - 4 days off the property; coffee shop meeting to make sure he understood the severity of the situation. Strike 3 - he'd have to find somewhere else to live. We told him that if the situation was bad enough, it would be straight to Strike #3. To show him that we care about more of a relationship than just scolding him, we invited him to a movie with us. He wanted to spend time with his friends instead so we drove them to LazerQuest on our way to the movie.
> >
> > Next day (yesterday) he got in a "snit" with me about how I didn't trust him & what was the use of acting in a trustworthy manner if I don't trust him anyway! I said the trust has to be rebuilt & he stormed out, to return a little later. I went to chat awhile across the road with my neighbour on her front lawn. My son came out of the house, returned my wave, then walked down the street with shoulders hunched & "don't talk to me" body-language. When I went home & went to put something in my purse I found that the $160 I'd just taken out of the bank to pay some bills was gone. All of the money in my purse was gone! I was simply in shock. He's never stolen from us before. I was sick & felt that it was MY FAULT somehow (which a part of me knows is nonsense). Anyway, he didn't come back last night. My husband & I decided that it's straight to Strike 3. After all we've gone through with him, we don't feel okay to have him live here if his behaviour is escalating. I'm not prepared to have to lock stuff up in my own home from my own son! I packed a knapsack of his clothes, toothbrush, etc. I put in an envelope a card with a list of help-agency phone numbers, shelter #'s & his workers from school #'s. I also put a $10 phone card to help me know he has a way to phone the various resources. If feels extremely yucky. I hate to put him out, but he's being very defiant, not willing to obey our rules, etc. It feels pretty awful. When he wasn't using for those 9 days when he was sick, he was his old normal self & we were talking & getting along well, etc. He's a different person when he's smoking pot all the time & I never know WHO I'm going to be talking to. I do need some support around this situation. I think I just need to know that people are aware of what I'm dealing with. It's hard for me to know that we're doing the right thing; people I've spoken to say we are. It's scarey. We have made our decision that we simply can't have him living here under these circumstances & we do believe that we're doing what is best for him.
> >
> > I'm feeling pretty calm though, which is surprising & I'm very thankful for it.
> >
> > Thanks for listening. Kath
Posted by Kath on July 6, 2000, at 17:07:09
In reply to Jennifer , posted by Kath on July 6, 2000, at 16:49:13
Jennifer - I just read your reply to my post that you saw second. I'll be waiting to hear how things go for you. You'll be so sick of collecting pee!!
I wish I had been a no-nonsense Mom. I really wasn't & boy do I regret it now. Mind you, my 24 yr-old daughter went through alot (although she had things happen to her which affected her alot & it's a different situation). She is now in recovery from drugs, alcohol & sex/relationship addiction. I am SO proud of her. She's doing so well & taking such good care of herself now. It gives me hope re: my son.
I guess the best way you can help is to be there. Your post was enormously helpful!!!! I need a kick in the butt to be FIRM (not my butt! - although maybe that would firm it too!) I think just knowing that you know what I'm going through & are there if I need to spout (babble) helps. I live in Ontario about an hour directly North on Yonge Street from Toronto. I'd love to sit & have tea with you! Oh well.
Please take care of yourself.
Kath
Posted by Jennifer on July 7, 2000, at 1:00:46
In reply to Jennifer (Part 2), posted by Kath on July 6, 2000, at 17:07:09
Kath, sounds like you guys really have it together and are doing all that you can. OK, Ontario is a bit far to go for tea from out here in Southern California. You could come here for wine tasting though (since you and your husband are the adventurous kind!). I did find out about my BONE DENSITY tonight. I have osteoporosis in my right hip (the one that's been hurting so much). Which is totally out of spec for a "young adult". I did double check that the phrase "young adult" applied to a 37 year old, and they said yes...guess that was at least good! Apparently the specialist has gone home and took my file and my BONE SCAN results with her. Uh-Oh. The nurse says I may hear from her tomorrow. Doubt I'll sleep much tonight! I'll drop another note when I hear more. Keep the faith! Jennifer
> Jennifer - I just read your reply to my post that you saw second. I'll be waiting to hear how things go for you. You'll be so sick of collecting pee!!
>
> I wish I had been a no-nonsense Mom. I really wasn't & boy do I regret it now. Mind you, my 24 yr-old daughter went through alot (although she had things happen to her which affected her alot & it's a different situation). She is now in recovery from drugs, alcohol & sex/relationship addiction. I am SO proud of her. She's doing so well & taking such good care of herself now. It gives me hope re: my son.
>
> I guess the best way you can help is to be there. Your post was enormously helpful!!!! I need a kick in the butt to be FIRM (not my butt! - although maybe that would firm it too!) I think just knowing that you know what I'm going through & are there if I need to spout (babble) helps. I live in Ontario about an hour directly North on Yonge Street from Toronto. I'd love to sit & have tea with you! Oh well.
>
> Please take care of yourself.
>
> Kath
Posted by Kath on July 7, 2000, at 10:56:44
In reply to Re: Back 2 Kath, posted by Jennifer on July 7, 2000, at 1:00:46
Hi Jennifer - Thx for the update on your situation; keep me posted :-)
I re-read your long post again this a.m. I'm not doing all the hard-line stuff at this point, but reading it helped me so much to figure out just exactly WHAT I'm going to do & WHERE I'm at!! Thanks so very much. I'm sort of at stage 1 (for example I told my son that after serious consideration I have decided not to press charges for the theft of the money. That it was the first time he'd ever stolen anything from us & that if it happened in the future, or if there was intentional damage to our belongings/property, charges would definitely be laid.) When I checked with the police, they won't put stuff "on the record" unless you're pressing charges - otherwise I'd have had them put it "on the record".
Again last nite our son slept in his sleeping-bag on our lounge on the back patio. This a.m. when I looked out the window he was looking at the list of resources I'd given him :-) I went out & told him that he needed to find somewhere else to live; that although it might not feel like it, we DID love him alot; he probably felt like we hated him & he probably hated us right now, but we do love him. (He got a few tears at that.) I told him that if he decided to go to any of the supports I'd listed, he could phone me. If he had a plan in place & needed to get there we could discuss it. I've decided that I'm going to be VERY firm but also as loving & supportive as I can; also VERY clear to him that the love & support does not change my requirements of him (which at the moment are to find somewhere else to live). He asked if he would be able to get some more of his things & I said yes, he was allowed to go in & get them now. He said, "I can go IN??" and I said I was giving him permission to go in now. I let him have something to eat & a shower & said he must know that this did not change my decision in any way. I think he finally "gets it". He said that he had a place where he could stay IF he gets a job. I had already printed off some of his resumes & put them in his knapsack when I left it out. I get the feeling that he really knows we mean it & that feels good.
I'm feeling sort of crummy & good at the same time!!
Thinking of you; keep in touch.
Hugs & hugs, Kath
P.S. - I would kill to go to California again! (Well, almost.)
> Kath, sounds like you guys really have it together and are doing all that you can. OK, Ontario is a bit far to go for tea from out here in Southern California. You could come here for wine tasting though (since you and your husband are the adventurous kind!). I did find out about my BONE DENSITY tonight. I have osteoporosis in my right hip (the one that's been hurting so much). Which is totally out of spec for a "young adult". I did double check that the phrase "young adult" applied to a 37 year old, and they said yes...guess that was at least good! Apparently the specialist has gone home and took my file and my BONE SCAN results with her. Uh-Oh. The nurse says I may hear from her tomorrow. Doubt I'll sleep much tonight! I'll drop another note when I hear more. Keep the faith! Jennifer
>
> > Jennifer - I just read your reply to my post that you saw second. I'll be waiting to hear how things go for you. You'll be so sick of collecting pee!!
> >
> > I wish I had been a no-nonsense Mom. I really wasn't & boy do I regret it now. Mind you, my 24 yr-old daughter went through alot (although she had things happen to her which affected her alot & it's a different situation). She is now in recovery from drugs, alcohol & sex/relationship addiction. I am SO proud of her. She's doing so well & taking such good care of herself now. It gives me hope re: my son.
> >
> > I guess the best way you can help is to be there. Your post was enormously helpful!!!! I need a kick in the butt to be FIRM (not my butt! - although maybe that would firm it too!) I think just knowing that you know what I'm going through & are there if I need to spout (babble) helps. I live in Ontario about an hour directly North on Yonge Street from Toronto. I'd love to sit & have tea with you! Oh well.
> >
> > Please take care of yourself.
> >
> > Kath
Posted by Jennifer on July 7, 2000, at 14:06:46
In reply to Update for my support-people, posted by Kath on July 7, 2000, at 10:56:44
Kath, sounds like it's going in a positive direction. This has got to be the hardest time for you, but it will all pay off in the end. Once again, our prayers are with you in all of this. My husband called me yesterday, and at the end of the conversation he said "think about Florida" and hung up on me. This drove me crazy till he got home and told me he had a job offer there. (really doubt we'll go for that unless it's TONS more money...both our families are out here). At any rate...this was just a precursor so you would understand last night. I was reading your post really late last night, and he had come downstairs to see if I was EVER going to come to bed. I was GOL (giggling out loud) over your post and going to Canada for tea. He thought I was psycho (which I always have to remind him I am!) for giggling at the computer. Anyway, when I posted your reply, I thought the computer ate it, and I had already told it to shut down. I said "oh S.." and tried to go back and confirm that it had gone through. At this point he is looking at me like I'm looney, and I tell him I need to turn the computer on to see if a mail piece went through. He tells me to check my emails in the morning. I tell him it's not an email, and to "think about Canada". I get a cute smirk out of him and he retreats to upstairs. When I get up there he LOL and wants to know what the heck I'm talking about. I told him I was sending an important note to "Kath" that I don't know, who lives in Ontario Canada, and it had to go through before I went to sleep. He now confirmes I'm crazy, and I remind him he's the one who's been thinking of Florida. OK, it was dumb, but fun. He can't understand why anyone would send a note to someone they don't know. Guess he'll never know! Love ya, Jen
> Hi Jennifer - Thx for the update on your situation; keep me posted :-)
>
> I re-read your long post again this a.m. I'm not doing all the hard-line stuff at this point, but reading it helped me so much to figure out just exactly WHAT I'm going to do & WHERE I'm at!! Thanks so very much. I'm sort of at stage 1 (for example I told my son that after serious consideration I have decided not to press charges for the theft of the money. That it was the first time he'd ever stolen anything from us & that if it happened in the future, or if there was intentional damage to our belongings/property, charges would definitely be laid.) When I checked with the police, they won't put stuff "on the record" unless you're pressing charges - otherwise I'd have had them put it "on the record".
>
> Again last nite our son slept in his sleeping-bag on our lounge on the back patio. This a.m. when I looked out the window he was looking at the list of resources I'd given him :-) I went out & told him that he needed to find somewhere else to live; that although it might not feel like it, we DID love him alot; he probably felt like we hated him & he probably hated us right now, but we do love him. (He got a few tears at that.) I told him that if he decided to go to any of the supports I'd listed, he could phone me. If he had a plan in place & needed to get there we could discuss it. I've decided that I'm going to be VERY firm but also as loving & supportive as I can; also VERY clear to him that the love & support does not change my requirements of him (which at the moment are to find somewhere else to live). He asked if he would be able to get some more of his things & I said yes, he was allowed to go in & get them now. He said, "I can go IN??" and I said I was giving him permission to go in now. I let him have something to eat & a shower & said he must know that this did not change my decision in any way. I think he finally "gets it". He said that he had a place where he could stay IF he gets a job. I had already printed off some of his resumes & put them in his knapsack when I left it out. I get the feeling that he really knows we mean it & that feels good.
>
> I'm feeling sort of crummy & good at the same time!!
>
> Thinking of you; keep in touch.
>
> Hugs & hugs, Kath
>
> P.S. - I would kill to go to California again! (Well, almost.)
>
>
> > Kath, sounds like you guys really have it together and are doing all that you can. OK, Ontario is a bit far to go for tea from out here in Southern California. You could come here for wine tasting though (since you and your husband are the adventurous kind!). I did find out about my BONE DENSITY tonight. I have osteoporosis in my right hip (the one that's been hurting so much). Which is totally out of spec for a "young adult". I did double check that the phrase "young adult" applied to a 37 year old, and they said yes...guess that was at least good! Apparently the specialist has gone home and took my file and my BONE SCAN results with her. Uh-Oh. The nurse says I may hear from her tomorrow. Doubt I'll sleep much tonight! I'll drop another note when I hear more. Keep the faith! Jennifer
> >
> > > Jennifer - I just read your reply to my post that you saw second. I'll be waiting to hear how things go for you. You'll be so sick of collecting pee!!
> > >
> > > I wish I had been a no-nonsense Mom. I really wasn't & boy do I regret it now. Mind you, my 24 yr-old daughter went through alot (although she had things happen to her which affected her alot & it's a different situation). She is now in recovery from drugs, alcohol & sex/relationship addiction. I am SO proud of her. She's doing so well & taking such good care of herself now. It gives me hope re: my son.
> > >
> > > I guess the best way you can help is to be there. Your post was enormously helpful!!!! I need a kick in the butt to be FIRM (not my butt! - although maybe that would firm it too!) I think just knowing that you know what I'm going through & are there if I need to spout (babble) helps. I live in Ontario about an hour directly North on Yonge Street from Toronto. I'd love to sit & have tea with you! Oh well.
> > >
> > > Please take care of yourself.
> > >
> > > Kath
Posted by Kath on July 7, 2000, at 21:21:47
In reply to Re: Update Kath, posted by Jennifer on July 7, 2000, at 14:06:46
Hi Jennnifer (do you prefer Jen?)
LOVED your note!! I LOL (laughed out loud!). My husband has been really teasing me lately about being an internet junkie!! He just walked by as I was LOL & he said "He internet lady". What you told me sounded really fun. Who knows, we may join each other for tea some day. [My husband just came into the room & said "there she is - the psycho-babe"].
Did you get more details about Florida? If I lived in California I think I'd find it pretty hard to leave. The thing I wasn't as keen on was the numerous weather-changes in such a short distance. I wore layers!! Always!! Of course, the thing I'm not as keen on here is COLD! I don't mind snow too much; at least it's pretty. I hate ice storms, although it's pretty when the trees are iced up & the sun shines on the branches & makes it look like there are brilliant jewels of all colours on them.
Smart-aleck just said to me "Honey, wouldn't it be better to write novels. At least you could make money writing novels."
Well - I'm feeling pretty perky tonite. I went just outside town to the town garden-plots. They're about 12 feet by 20 feet & have paths in between them. They're for people who can't have gardens of their own. I can't because even though I have a nice big back yard, there are lots of BIG trees & they provide shade & massive amounts of meshy roots. I've even tried raised gardens with little luck. So today I planted more carrots & beans & weeded. I LOVE working in the earth - I take my shoes & socks off & sit right on the ground to weed. I sort of hate that my fingernails get filthy, but I'm pretty happy anyway. Dirty fingernails is a small price to pay for the satisfaction I get from being out in nature & working in my garden. I was out there for about 5 hours. My husband went to Taco Bell & picked us up supper & we ate it at the garden plots on the picnic table there. Usually nobody else is there; it just seems that people go at different times.
I'm feeling pretty good right now. My son left his stuff on the back patio, but at this point I don't care. If he camps out there tonight, we'll tell him in no uncertain terms tomorrow that that's a no-no.
Thanks for being there. I like ya'. Kath
Kath, sounds like it's going in a positive direction. This has got to be the hardest time for you, but it will all pay off in the end. Once again, our prayers are with you in all of this. My husband called me yesterday, and at the end of the conversation he said "think about Florida" and hung up on me. This drove me crazy till he got home and told me he had a job offer there. (really doubt we'll go for that unless it's TONS more money...both our families are out here). At any rate...this was just a precursor so you would understand last night. I was reading your post really late last night, and he had come downstairs to see if I was EVER going to come to bed. I was GOL (giggling out loud) over your post and going to Canada for tea. He thought I was psycho (which I always have to remind him I am!) for giggling at the computer. Anyway, when I posted your reply, I thought the computer ate it, and I had already told it to shut down. I said "oh S.." and tried to go back and confirm that it had gone through. At this point he is looking at me like I'm looney, and I tell him I need to turn the computer on to see if a mail piece went through. He tells me to check my emails in the morning. I tell him it's not an email, and to "think about Canada". I get a cute smirk out of him and he retreats to upstairs. When I get up there he LOL and wants to know what the heck I'm talking about. I told him I was sending an important note to "Kath" that I don't know, who lives in Ontario Canada, and it had to go through before I went to sleep. He now confirmes I'm crazy, and I remind him he's the one who's been thinking of Florida. OK, it was dumb, but fun. He can't understand why anyone would send a note to someone they don't know. Guess he'll never know! Love ya, Jen
>
> > Hi Jennifer - Thx for the update on your situation; keep me posted :-)
> >
> > I re-read your long post again this a.m. I'm not doing all the hard-line stuff at this point, but reading it helped me so much to figure out just exactly WHAT I'm going to do & WHERE I'm at!! Thanks so very much. I'm sort of at stage 1 (for example I told my son that after serious consideration I have decided not to press charges for the theft of the money. That it was the first time he'd ever stolen anything from us & that if it happened in the future, or if there was intentional damage to our belongings/property, charges would definitely be laid.) When I checked with the police, they won't put stuff "on the record" unless you're pressing charges - otherwise I'd have had them put it "on the record".
> >
> > Again last nite our son slept in his sleeping-bag on our lounge on the back patio. This a.m. when I looked out the window he was looking at the list of resources I'd given him :-) I went out & told him that he needed to find somewhere else to live; that although it might not feel like it, we DID love him alot; he probably felt like we hated him & he probably hated us right now, but we do love him. (He got a few tears at that.) I told him that if he decided to go to any of the supports I'd listed, he could phone me. If he had a plan in place & needed to get there we could discuss it. I've decided that I'm going to be VERY firm but also as loving & supportive as I can; also VERY clear to him that the love & support does not change my requirements of him (which at the moment are to find somewhere else to live). He asked if he would be able to get some more of his things & I said yes, he was allowed to go in & get them now. He said, "I can go IN??" and I said I was giving him permission to go in now. I let him have something to eat & a shower & said he must know that this did not change my decision in any way. I think he finally "gets it". He said that he had a place where he could stay IF he gets a job. I had already printed off some of his resumes & put them in his knapsack when I left it out. I get the feeling that he really knows we mean it & that feels good.
> >
> > I'm feeling sort of crummy & good at the same time!!
> >
> > Thinking of you; keep in touch.
> >
> > Hugs & hugs, Kath
> >
> > P.S. - I would kill to go to California again! (Well, almost.)
> >
> >
> > > Kath, sounds like you guys really have it together and are doing all that you can. OK, Ontario is a bit far to go for tea from out here in Southern California. You could come here for wine tasting though (since you and your husband are the adventurous kind!). I did find out about my BONE DENSITY tonight. I have osteoporosis in my right hip (the one that's been hurting so much). Which is totally out of spec for a "young adult". I did double check that the phrase "young adult" applied to a 37 year old, and they said yes...guess that was at least good! Apparently the specialist has gone home and took my file and my BONE SCAN results with her. Uh-Oh. The nurse says I may hear from her tomorrow. Doubt I'll sleep much tonight! I'll drop another note when I hear more. Keep the faith! Jennifer
> > >
> > > > Jennifer - I just read your reply to my post that you saw second. I'll be waiting to hear how things go for you. You'll be so sick of collecting pee!!
> > > >
> > > > I wish I had been a no-nonsense Mom. I really wasn't & boy do I regret it now. Mind you, my 24 yr-old daughter went through alot (although she had things happen to her which affected her alot & it's a different situation). She is now in recovery from drugs, alcohol & sex/relationship addiction. I am SO proud of her. She's doing so well & taking such good care of herself now. It gives me hope re: my son.
> > > >
> > > > I guess the best way you can help is to be there. Your post was enormously helpful!!!! I need a kick in the butt to be FIRM (not my butt! - although maybe that would firm it too!) I think just knowing that you know what I'm going through & are there if I need to spout (babble) helps. I live in Ontario about an hour directly North on Yonge Street from Toronto. I'd love to sit & have tea with you! Oh well.
> > > >
> > > > Please take care of yourself.
> > > >
> > > > Kath
Posted by Jennifer on July 7, 2000, at 21:54:45
In reply to Jennifer - Giggling, posted by Kath on July 7, 2000, at 21:21:47
Kath,
Jen, Jennifer, Jenny...who cares. Most call me Jen (I had to think about it), or Jennifer. Half the people in town call me nurse jennifer since I think at one time or another I've either taken care of or given them advice on their kids. If it's Jenny, I know it's someone who is known me a long time. In grade school there were 3 of us, so one was Jen, one Jennifer, and me...Jenny. Couldn't wait to dump it in college, but now I love it again (probably since I'm getting old). My 20 year High School reunion is next month! There is no way I'm old enough to go to that!
Once again I LOL when I caught your note. I was out this afternoon weeding my NEIGHBORS plants. On the ground getting MY nails dirty. My neighbor was laughing at me for enjoying myself as we talked, and she watched me from the lawn chair. I had already weeded my daughters little patch in the front yard. We have a small, maybe 12inch wide patch along the front of the house with a small white fence...you know, the kind of area for flowers. My kids decided that green peppers, strawberries and cilantro would be much prettier this year! They're almost ready to eat. No trees in the back yard, but most every color of roses. My yard isn't that big, and I like to have the grass area for the kids to play on.
My husband just asked me last week when I was going to write a book! I think I've collected notes on about 5 different topics. The thing is that I never have time to really "do it", plus there are so many other things I want to do. I'm determined to be fluent in spanish. Took an upper division college class...was getting real good, then didn't use it and lost it. I'm hoping as a teach my kids I'll get it back again. Also want to do my geneology. Tons of notes stuffed in drawers. Actually have one leg back to the 1600's. I told my husband that in the next year or two I want to go to Salt Lake City to the geneology library and just live there for about 2 weeks. They have a small library at one of their churches here, but it's about 30 minutes away, and I never seem to fit it in!
OK, the Florida thing is in Fort Lauderdale. My husband talked to him today and said his wife had a ton of questions....like why the hell someone would move from here...to there (hurricanes, mosquitoes, alligators and humidity I think were my terms). He agreed. Actually, I had so many questions, and had plotted out the company's stock growth, the area schooling, cost of living, everything, and this guy was a bit amazed...has to call back next week with all the answers. My dad and I chatted today. Of course he would never tell me what to do, but he did say that was just about the farthest point in the continental USA you could get from here. And I wouldn't get to see all my siblings, neices, nephews etc. Plus my grandparents are getting pretty darn old. I don't think they'll be around much longer.
My husband called me with some info on a conversion van (we've been sort of shopping for one) and told me that the license plate was cute because it started with 4LOV. He told me the entire plate number and I was astounded...he said "honey, it's just 4LOV"...and I said "no you idiot, the numbers after LOV are the month and date of our anniversary". Boy did he feel bad that he didn't catch that one! Maybe I'll be getting flowers tonight! Just kidding! Well, I'm off to pack for our trip to Big Bear this weekend. Probably won't check back until Monday. We really do sound like we have similar lives. Maybe sometime we can consider exchanging actual emails (oh..that's serious!). Have a great weekend! Jen
Posted by Kath on July 8, 2000, at 18:53:18
In reply to Re: Kath-weeds, posted by Jennifer on July 7, 2000, at 21:54:45
Hi Jenny - Since you like it I'll call you that today!! I'll probably alternate 'til I see which one I like best. My name is actually Kathryn, but I love being called Kath. I'm going to answer through your post so it's more like conversation. I'll start my comments with .....
> Jen, Jennifer, Jenny...who cares. Most call me Jen (I had to think about it), or Jennifer. Half the people in town call me nurse jennifer since I think at one time or another I've either taken care of or given them advice on their kids...........You are a fount of knowledge; I've been amazed at how knowledgable you are in your posts.
If it's Jenny, I know it's someone who is known me a long time. In grade school there were 3 of us, so one was Jen, one Jennifer, and me...Jenny. Couldn't wait to dump it in college, but now I love it again (probably since I'm getting old). My 20 year High School reunion is next month! There is no way I'm old enough to go to that!
> Once again I LOL when I caught your note. I was out this afternoon weeding my NEIGHBORS plants. On the ground getting MY nails dirty. My neighbor was laughing at me for enjoying myself as we talked, and she watched me from the lawn chair. I had already weeded my daughters little patch in the front yard. We have a small, maybe 12inch wide patch along the front of the house with a small white fence...you know, the kind of area for flowers. My kids decided that green peppers, strawberries and cilantro would be much prettier this year! They're almost ready to eat............What a good idea. I just tidied my patio off, swept it & removed various junk, so it now goes with my pretty gardens better! I have toads in my gardens & I love them. I refer to them as "my toads". My son said to me, "They're not YOURS!!" When I told my daughter, she laughed and said "That's the difference between 24 & 16 (she's 24) - I might THINK that, but at 16 you SAY it!"
No trees in the back yard, but most every color of roses. My yard isn't that big, and I like to have the grass area for the kids to play on.
.................... I'd love to see your roses. Maybe we might even get "serious" enough to exchange real addresses & photos!!!! (Whoa - now THAT'S serious!)
> My husband just asked me last week when I was going to write a book! I think I've collected notes on about 5 different topics. The thing is that I never have time to really "do it", plus there are so many other things I want to do. I'm determined to be fluent in spanish. Took an upper division college class...was getting real good, then didn't use it and lost it. I'm hoping as a teach my kids I'll get it back again. Also want to do my geneology. Tons of notes stuffed in drawers. Actually have one leg back to the 1600's.
...........That's amazing (1600's). I'm pretty interested in doing mine but haven't done much at all in the way of it yet. Maybe someday.
I told my husband that in the next year or two I want to go to Salt Lake City to the geneology library and just live there for about 2 weeks. They have a small library at one of their churches here, but it's about 30 minutes away, and I never seem to fit it in!
> OK, the Florida thing is in Fort Lauderdale. My husband talked to him today and said his wife had a ton of questions....like why the hell someone would move from here...to there (hurricanes, mosquitoes, alligators and humidity I think were my terms). He agreed. Actually, I had so many questions, and had plotted out the company's stock growth, the area schooling, cost of living, everything, and this guy was a bit amazed...has to call back next week with all the answers. My dad and I chatted today. Of course he would never tell me what to do, but he did say that was just about the farthest point in the continental USA you could get from here. And I wouldn't get to see all my siblings, neices, nephews etc. Plus my grandparents are getting pretty darn old. I don't think they'll be around much longer............Sounds like it's a REALLY big decision. Let me know, if & when you feel like it what's up.
> My husband called me with some info on a conversion van (we've been sort of shopping for one) and told me that the license plate was cute because it started with 4LOV. He told me the entire plate number and I was astounded...he said "honey, it's just 4LOV"...and I said "no you idiot, the numbers after LOV are the month and date of our anniversary".
.........I knew you were thinking of it - what's a conversion van? That license plate thing is quite something. Gives me the shivers. My husband & I usually forget our anniversary (July 24) & one of us will remember a week or 2 later. We have quite a laff about it. One year HE remembered (you know the jokes about husbands forgetting) on the day & I forgot.
Boy did he feel bad that he didn't catch that one! Maybe I'll be getting flowers tonight! Just kidding! Well, I'm off to pack for our trip to Big Bear this weekend.
.........Hope you have a fantabulous weekend. What is Big Bear (or where)?
Probably won't check back until Monday. We really do sound like we have similar lives. Maybe sometime we can consider exchanging actual emails (oh..that's serious!). Have a great weekend! Jen
.........I'd like to exchange emails but how does one do it privately? Maybe one doesn't.
Thinkin' of you. Hugs. Kath
Posted by Jennifer on July 11, 2000, at 2:12:25
In reply to Weeds - hey, not the smokey kind I hope!! :-) » Jennifer, posted by Kath on July 8, 2000, at 18:53:18
Kath,
Thank you on the knowledge compliment. At least it's one thing I can do right sometimes!
> ...........What a good idea. I just tidied my patio off, swept it & removed various junk, so it now goes with my pretty gardens better! I have toads in my gardens & I love them.
We have frogs when it rains, which isn't often. Now that my neighbors is weeded, the kids put out buckets of water with lillipads for them. I don't think they're too interested in visiting here in July, although it has been quite cool.> .................... I'd love to see your roses. Maybe we might even get "serious" enough to exchange real addresses & photos!!!! (Whoa - now THAT'S serious!)
Sometime we'll find a way. Especially now that I have my digital camera. I haven't tried to email a photo yet. I'm technically inept.
>
> ...........That's amazing (1600's). I'm pretty interested in doing mine but haven't done much at all in the way of it yet. Maybe someday.
I definetly recommend taking a class. If I didn't do that, I never would have started.> .........I knew you were thinking of it - what's a conversion van? That license plate thing is quite something. Gives me the shivers. My husband & I usually forget our anniversary (July 24) & one of us will remember a week or 2 later. We have quite a laff about it. One year HE remembered (you know the jokes about husbands forgetting) on the day & I forgot.
Do they not use the term "conversion van" in Canada? It's a van that has 4 captians chairs, and a couch in the back that goes down into a bed. Plus there is a TV/VCR for the kids up high between front seats and their own stereo all with headphone hookups at each seat so we don't have to hear their music or TV. Awesome for traveling...or just wandering around. I'm a wanderer...otherwise I sit at home and think about my panic and health stuff. We ran plates on the van and found that it was built in Canada! An omen perhaps?
Happy anniversary? What number? Our 14th will be on 8/16.
> What is Big Bear (or where)?
It is a city at about 7,500ft elevation in the nearby San Bernardino Mountains. We set out for relaxation with our friends, but you know how that goes. We took 2 SeaDoos out on the Lake which is naturally freezing. One does wonder what the heck you are doing in a bathing suit when everyone else is in wetsuits! Needless to say, I never got very wet, but my friend was on the other one with his daughter and they tipped in the middle of the lake. Couldn't get back on, so by the time we got them out, they were a bit on the "hypothermic" side :) I think next time we'll go for the boat. We wanted to give them a run at a higher elevation before taking them to Lake Powell next month. Next time I think we'll stick to the ocean...much warmer!
Next, the shower pipe started leaking in the cabin, so the guys ended up trying to fix that...and nothing was really open on a Sunday. So, our friends are still up there finishing up "leak repair" and I am down here doing 700 loads of laundry! We brought down everything in our truck, and of course the kids packed all the wet stuff in with it, so I've been washing for 2 families. I think I'm on my 14th load so far!
>
.........I'd like to exchange emails but how does one do it privately? Maybe one doesn't.I'm sure we'll find a way...or someone will post a suggestion. I all else fails, I'll just post it for you.
PS: You two may forget your anniversary, but my family does this Lake Powell thing every year. When my kids couldn't swim, and my panic was unbearable, I didn't go. The first 6 years we were married, my husband was on vacation with my parents on our anniversary. Since then we have always said that the key to a happy marriage is separate vacations!
Off to put in another load of towels! Jenny
Posted by Kath on July 11, 2000, at 17:13:58
In reply to Kath-no weeds with asthma :), posted by Jennifer on July 11, 2000, at 2:12:25
Hi Jenny - I'll answer this in detail probably tomorrow when I have time, but here's my email. I don't mind posting it here; I decided to for Tina. It's somewhat frivolous or fantasy-ish.
It's [email protected]Take care - hope your washing machine doesn't go on strike!!.
Hugs, Kath
> Kath,
>
> Thank you on the knowledge compliment. At least it's one thing I can do right sometimes!
>
> > ...........What a good idea. I just tidied my patio off, swept it & removed various junk, so it now goes with my pretty gardens better! I have toads in my gardens & I love them.
> We have frogs when it rains, which isn't often. Now that my neighbors is weeded, the kids put out buckets of water with lillipads for them. I don't think they're too interested in visiting here in July, although it has been quite cool.
>
> > .................... I'd love to see your roses. Maybe we might even get "serious" enough to exchange real addresses & photos!!!! (Whoa - now THAT'S serious!)
> Sometime we'll find a way. Especially now that I have my digital camera. I haven't tried to email a photo yet. I'm technically inept.
> >
> > ...........That's amazing (1600's). I'm pretty interested in doing mine but haven't done much at all in the way of it yet. Maybe someday.
> I definetly recommend taking a class. If I didn't do that, I never would have started.
>
> > .........I knew you were thinking of it - what's a conversion van? That license plate thing is quite something. Gives me the shivers. My husband & I usually forget our anniversary (July 24) & one of us will remember a week or 2 later. We have quite a laff about it. One year HE remembered (you know the jokes about husbands forgetting) on the day & I forgot.
>
> Do they not use the term "conversion van" in Canada? It's a van that has 4 captians chairs, and a couch in the back that goes down into a bed. Plus there is a TV/VCR for the kids up high between front seats and their own stereo all with headphone hookups at each seat so we don't have to hear their music or TV. Awesome for traveling...or just wandering around. I'm a wanderer...otherwise I sit at home and think about my panic and health stuff. We ran plates on the van and found that it was built in Canada! An omen perhaps?
>
> Happy anniversary? What number? Our 14th will be on 8/16.
> > What is Big Bear (or where)?
> It is a city at about 7,500ft elevation in the nearby San Bernardino Mountains. We set out for relaxation with our friends, but you know how that goes. We took 2 SeaDoos out on the Lake which is naturally freezing. One does wonder what the heck you are doing in a bathing suit when everyone else is in wetsuits! Needless to say, I never got very wet, but my friend was on the other one with his daughter and they tipped in the middle of the lake. Couldn't get back on, so by the time we got them out, they were a bit on the "hypothermic" side :) I think next time we'll go for the boat. We wanted to give them a run at a higher elevation before taking them to Lake Powell next month. Next time I think we'll stick to the ocean...much warmer!
> Next, the shower pipe started leaking in the cabin, so the guys ended up trying to fix that...and nothing was really open on a Sunday. So, our friends are still up there finishing up "leak repair" and I am down here doing 700 loads of laundry! We brought down everything in our truck, and of course the kids packed all the wet stuff in with it, so I've been washing for 2 families. I think I'm on my 14th load so far!
> >
> .........I'd like to exchange emails but how does one do it privately? Maybe one doesn't.
>
> I'm sure we'll find a way...or someone will post a suggestion. I all else fails, I'll just post it for you.
>
> PS: You two may forget your anniversary, but my family does this Lake Powell thing every year. When my kids couldn't swim, and my panic was unbearable, I didn't go. The first 6 years we were married, my husband was on vacation with my parents on our anniversary. Since then we have always said that the key to a happy marriage is separate vacations!
>
> Off to put in another load of towels! Jenny
Posted by Kath on July 12, 2000, at 21:38:53
In reply to Re: Kath-no weeds with asthma :) » Jennifer, posted by Kath on July 11, 2000, at 17:13:58
Hi Jenny - This post is getting a bit jumbled. Today I'll use ****** to indicate my comments.
> Kath,
> >
> > Thank you on the knowledge compliment. At least it's one thing I can do right sometimes!
> >
> > > ...........What a good idea. I just tidied my patio off, swept it & removed various junk, so it now goes with my pretty gardens better! I have toads in my gardens & I love them.
> > We have frogs when it rains, which isn't often. Now that my neighbors is weeded, the kids put out buckets of water with lillipads for them. I don't think they're too interested in visiting here in July, although it has been quite cool.
> >
> > > .................... I'd love to see your roses. Maybe we might even get "serious" enough to exchange real addresses & photos!!!! (Whoa - now THAT'S serious!)
> > Sometime we'll find a way. Especially now that I have my digital camera. I haven't tried to email a photo yet. I'm technically inept.********I'm technically inept also. My friend has a scanner tho'. Maybe she'd let me use it & help me! (The help part would be the main thing!)
> > > ...........That's amazing (1600's). I'm pretty interested in doing mine but haven't done much at all in the way of it yet. Maybe someday.
> > I definetly recommend taking a class. If I didn't do that, I never would have started.********** ya - I might someday.
> > > .........I knew you were thinking of it - what's a conversion van? That license plate thing is quite something. Gives me the shivers. My husband & I usually forget our anniversary (July 24) & one of us will remember a week or 2 later. We have quite a laff about it. One year HE remembered (you know the jokes about husbands forgetting) on the day & I forgot.
> >
> > Do they not use the term "conversion van" in Canada?***************Not that I KNOW of & my husband hasn't heard of it either?! It sounds amazing! Just the thing for travelling with kids. Do you still get "Mommmmm - are we there yet???"
It's a van that has 4 captians chairs, and a couch in the back that goes down into a bed. Plus there is a TV/VCR for the kids up high between front seats and their own stereo all with headphone hookups at each seat so we don't have to hear their music or TV. Awesome for traveling...or just wandering around. I'm a wanderer...otherwise I sit at home and think about my panic and health stuff. We ran plates on the van and found that it was built in Canada! An omen perhaps?
**************I love wandering also. I love sort of getting lost out on the roads in the country & then discovering neat places & things. I think I'm a reincarnated explorer!
> > > > Happy anniversary? What number? Our 14th will be on 8/16.
**************On July 24th it'll be 7 (I just had to ask my husband which # it was) He said "yup -7 years of hell". That's the type of humour he has - we're very happy (okay, not happy with our son - his step-son, who he does love & is quite good with).
> > > What is Big Bear (or where)?
> > It is a city at about 7,500ft elevation in the nearby San Bernardino Mountains. We set out for relaxation with our friends, but you know how that goes. We took 2 SeaDoos out on the Lake which is naturally freezing. One does wonder what the heck you are doing in a bathing suit when everyone else is in wetsuits! Needless to say, I never got very wet, but my friend was on the other one with his daughter and they tipped in the middle of the lake. Couldn't get back on, so by the time we got them out, they were a bit on the "hypothermic" side :)*****What an adventure!
I think next time we'll go for the boat. We wanted to give them a run at a higher elevation before taking them to Lake Powell next month.
*******So is Lake Powell even higher? My husband & I hiked up Mount Mansfield, (4-thousand & something fee high) the highest point in Vermont. We got almost to the top; he went a bit higher than I did. It was a pretty hot day & my head was getting a bit light. It was a wonderful climb, up higher than the tree-line & in the guide book, they said to take 2 litres of water per person. It was SSOOOOOO exciting. I loved it. I'm an armchair mountain-climber (snow mountains thought). I was so proud of myself because here I'm 53 right? And the few other people we saw up there were young people!!! Yay for us!! I build - I don't know what you call them - but it's like a person made of piled up stones, some overlapping, some apart etc. It gave the the shivers to think that my tower is up on Mt. Mansfield even in the winter snow etc. Being up there made me feel like my soul was singing. You could see Lake Champlain way off in the distance.
Next time I think we'll stick to the ocean...much warmer!
> > Next, the shower pipe started leaking in the cabin, so the guys ended up trying to fix that...and nothing was really open on a Sunday. So, our friends are still up there finishing up "leak repair" and I am down here doing 700 loads of laundry! We brought down everything in our truck, and of course the kids packed all the wet stuff in with it, so I've been washing for 2 families. I think I'm on my 14th load so far!**********Did you get all the washing done? I don't really mind washing; sort of like it, & I don't mind ironing either, but I hardly even do much ironing!! Only what's absolutely necessary.
> > >
> > .........I'd like to exchange emails but how does one do it privately? Maybe one doesn't.
> >
> > I'm sure we'll find a way...or someone will post a suggestion. I all else fails, I'll just post it for you.***********I finally thought, "so what's the big deal if someone has my email & wants to email me?"
> >
> > PS: You two may forget your anniversary, but my family does this Lake Powell thing every year. When my kids couldn't swim, and my panic was unbearable, I didn't go. The first 6 years we were married, my husband was on vacation with my parents on our anniversary. Since then we have always said that the key to a happy marriage is separate vacations!***********You know I've actually heard other people say that!! I know I really enjoy my "Mom's week away". I wouldn't give that up easilly!!
> >
> > Off to put in another load of towels! Jenny***************I'm not going to write much here now. Thx for posting to me. Feel free to email me.
Let me know how you are.
Take care. Hugs, Kath
This is the end of the thread.
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