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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by johnnyj on June 26, 2006, at 8:52:25
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by musky on June 26, 2006, at 0:27:34
Hi Musky,
I slept ok on Friday night. I fell asleep on the couch and was sleeping pretty sound. I felt weird all day Saturday and then did not sleep at all on Saturday night. I was so agitated and got so upset. I could not sit still and rest in one position very long. I had drank some chamomille tea before bed and I am wondering if that had a paradoxal reaction to it? I often have the opposite reaction to herbs so I am hoping it was the tea. Therefore, Sunday was terrible. I had all of this tension in my stomach and chest. I ate that afternoon and things went down very fast and I was totally spaced out. I do think a lot of it is the lack of sleep. Relaxing music, praying, relaxtion, nothing has been working the past few nights. Just so agitated, but Saturday was the worst it has been. When trying to sleep I seemed to be in a half dream state trying to fall to sleep but not there yet which was very weird. I saw myself driving and all of the sudden there were school kids in the cross walk and I jolted awake and was totally freaked out. very scary.
I sometimes crunch up my forehead and release it because of tension I get. I haven't had to do that with my face. But, there is a lot of tension because of the drug. My forehead is all tight today.
Fight with your husband? Well, my wife and I fought Thursday night. I just wanted to run to the mountains and wait all of this out.
I had to take some dramamine as the nausea was up and down on Sunday. I managed about 5 hours sleep last night but I am beat today. I am somewhat worried that this anxiety is not going away. But, this is not the heart pounding physical anxiety I have felt. Just some nagging anxiety that resides somehwere I can't figure out. I will give it 2 months before deciding to take some other action. To have sleep/nausea/anxiety problems after 4 weeks is worrying me a lot. I guess I had 3 good nights of sleep last week and then 4 bad ones. Before they were moderately bad and now either good or bad. And the bad, are really bad.
Do you have any stomcah tension or ache after eating? Some sharp pains too. My appetite is not the best the past two days and that is troublesome.
Some times during the day I feel I am just one step away from feeling great and things will calm down. Other times I feel I am one step away to crashing. Hard to know as my whole experience right now is just "weird". Often times I cannot say exactly what I am feeling just "off" ya know?
Getting very tired of this. I have found that my new ability to feel things at times is overwhelming too. I enjoy feeling the breeze on my face, etc., but I have been numb so long it is somewhat scary too. Does this make any sense? This may be a source of anxiety too.
Not sure what to do with the sleep as I cannot have total sleepless nights and recover. Lot's of mixed feelings right now.
johnnyj
Posted by musky on June 27, 2006, at 0:38:38
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by johnnyj on June 26, 2006, at 8:52:25
>
Hi Johnnyj:yes, yes and yes!! to almost all the stuff you describe.. I just cant believe it you know.
My sleep was ok last night but again woke up at 5am instead of the usual 4am.. so maybe just maybe the sleep patterns are returning to somewhat normal.. But I still feel tired and have to have a nap in the afternoon most days after work(im working just 5hrs /day cause of the previous neck issue, etc. for now)..
Anyways chammomile tea calms me .. strange it would make you more anxious.. but then you said that you are on another drug?? was it lithiumm? maybe this cross reacts with herbs somehow?? i dont know... thats too bad..
What is dramamine??? I dont take anything I have just been doing the calcium magnesium(for other purpose, but it also serves as a muscle relaxant), and the chammomile tea.
Other than the B vitamins which i dont know if they are helping with stress yet.. I think its to soon.. then just take this Omega 3joy ..its for mood support(its just fish oils), I thought I would start that as I was tapering and when I quit the rEmeron in case I had problem with depressed feelings.. I only plan to take it for a short time.. not sure but I think it is helping with all of this too. But I still think Acupuncture has had the most powerful effect, although it doesnt last that long.. So I too am concerned about anxiety.. but i do think I have better days then not like you say.
I dont have stomach tension or heavy chest..just the odd skipped heart beat and then I cant breath, ... but mostly its the tension in my head,neck area and shoulders that is sooo bad.. thats what gets me dizzy.. And the last couple of days im really really figity and restless, cant sit still..etc.. also the scrunching of my face, not the forehead as you describe.. .people ask me if i am having trouble seeing.. thats what it looks like to them.. I say no!!! but it looks like im squinting , but im NOT.. its just the TEnsion... its hard to explain.. this wierd feelingDreams have been better, but I know what you mean by sort of reality, dream like not dream like before falling asleep...but its been pretty good lately.. for that.
I just find this tension and anxiety the worse, with intermittent down times.
If you keep going and dont take drastic measures(ie, more meds.. God forbid) you will get through this .. one day at a time.
I think i know what you mean by having this anxiety feeling but cant place it anywhere.. also today I felt out of it.. then connected then not,,, its soo strange!!!
One thing I have noticed is that IM not craving the sweets like before, which is a good feeling. I was absoultely crazy with it before when on the Remeron. Now my appetite I think is returning slowly to normal.. I still dont have that real Good feeling of appetite /hunger yet.. but I do taste what i eat now and enjoy it, whereas before I would just gorge i was so numbed out..
I think all of this stuff will pass one day.. I HOPE!!! From allmy research one month isnt that long really.. dont get too disheartende yet.. even in 3months dont quit.. Me, Im giving it 6months before I decide... I dont want to go backwards and depend or take these meds again.
I keep tring to hang on to the memory of my days when i never even heard the word antidepressant, or anxiety medication, or panic attacks , depression, etc... that is my goal
Its very hard as you say..
Oh ya been VERY irritable the last 2 days as i mentioned before , but also today i could have just hit someone..lol while I was stuck in traffic... Im tired of all of this too.
I just hate this not being able to relax and I am tired of the muscle tension, scrunching face stuff.
I know what you mean by running to the mts.. me too!!! and just hide like an injured animal till it all passes. and like you one day I feel almost a glimpse of hope, and then almost have a real emotion of joy,,, then the next moment its gone .. and like u I havent had feeliings for soo long , been numbed out on the Remeron.. I know its the Remeron as iwasnt like this before.. issues, yes.. numbed out NEVER!!!
Well hang in there.. I just keep crossing the days off my calendar and keep focusing forward..
i keep telling myself that every day I am not on Remeron is a day more that my body is healing..
The body need to readjust its chemistry and it will yo yo for quite some timeOh Man.. I hear ya,,, im there too.. keep going
Musky
Hi Musky,
>
> I slept ok on Friday night. I fell asleep on the couch and was sleeping pretty sound. I felt weird all day Saturday and then did not sleep at all on Saturday night. I was so agitated and got so upset. I could not sit still and rest in one position very long. I had drank some chamomille tea before bed and I am wondering if that had a paradoxal reaction to it? I often have the opposite reaction to herbs so I am hoping it was the tea. Therefore, Sunday was terrible. I had all of this tension in my stomach and chest. I ate that afternoon and things went down very fast and I was totally spaced out. I do think a lot of it is the lack of sleep. Relaxing music, praying, relaxtion, nothing has been working the past few nights. Just so agitated, but Saturday was the worst it has been. When trying to sleep I seemed to be in a half dream state trying to fall to sleep but not there yet which was very weird. I saw myself driving and all of the sudden there were school kids in the cross walk and I jolted awake and was totally freaked out. very scary.
>
> I sometimes crunch up my forehead and release it because of tension I get. I haven't had to do that with my face. But, there is a lot of tension because of the drug. My forehead is all tight today.
>
> Fight with your husband? Well, my wife and I fought Thursday night. I just wanted to run to the mountains and wait all of this out.
>
> I had to take some dramamine as the nausea was up and down on Sunday. I managed about 5 hours sleep last night but I am beat today. I am somewhat worried that this anxiety is not going away. But, this is not the heart pounding physical anxiety I have felt. Just some nagging anxiety that resides somehwere I can't figure out. I will give it 2 months before deciding to take some other action. To have sleep/nausea/anxiety problems after 4 weeks is worrying me a lot. I guess I had 3 good nights of sleep last week and then 4 bad ones. Before they were moderately bad and now either good or bad. And the bad, are really bad.
>
> Do you have any stomcah tension or ache after eating? Some sharp pains too. My appetite is not the best the past two days and that is troublesome.
>
> Some times during the day I feel I am just one step away from feeling great and things will calm down. Other times I feel I am one step away to crashing. Hard to know as my whole experience right now is just "weird". Often times I cannot say exactly what I am feeling just "off" ya know?
>
> Getting very tired of this. I have found that my new ability to feel things at times is overwhelming too. I enjoy feeling the breeze on my face, etc., but I have been numb so long it is somewhat scary too. Does this make any sense? This may be a source of anxiety too.
>
> Not sure what to do with the sleep as I cannot have total sleepless nights and recover. Lot's of mixed feelings right now.
>
> johnnyj
Posted by musky on June 27, 2006, at 0:41:01
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by musky on June 27, 2006, at 0:38:38
johnny.. just remembered.. I dont have a problem with nausea hardly at all now.. hope yours gets better.. I just drank A TON of gingerale the first few weeks..
Musky
Posted by musky on June 29, 2006, at 23:47:50
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by musky on June 27, 2006, at 0:41:01
Hey everyone.. how are you all doing?/
Its 5 weeks for me ,, still hanging in.. sleep is a bit better,, Im not waking up at 4am the last 2 nights.. waking up about 5 or 5:30.. but now Im back to feeling real tired to get up .. where as when i woke up at 4am i was awake?? its wierd.
anyways,, still alot of tension in back of neck.. I have acupuncture tomorrow,,it should help as it did before.. mood still up and down and today a dip down.. wanted to not go on. .. but I just kept busy,, did my music etc.. so scary some times yet I tell myself to keep going..
STill dont feel me in the mind yet, like hard to really feel connected completely..
anyone else get this?? I know johnny has been having a rought time.. and Im still irritable.. like I could fight with anyone... if they say the wrong thing or are just in my way..not funGood luck to all
Musky
Posted by jeninco on June 30, 2006, at 20:46:33
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by musky on June 29, 2006, at 23:47:50
I'm down to 1/8 of a 15 mg pill every other day and doing really well. I get a wave of nausea every now and then, mostly in the evening, but otherwise okay.
Miraculously, I'm sleeping fairly well. I used to have to take something to fall asleep. Now I find when I take an ambien I feel pretty crappy, so my non-medicated sleep feels pretty good, even on the nights when I'm taking miniscule amounts of remeron. I'm not sure how long I'll go every other day, I'm kind of waiting it out. I wait for a few days of stabilization, then I move on. I know you (Musky) advised against this, but it worked like a charm when I went off the zoloft, and I tried stopping at 3.75 mg and that didn't work at all. So this is all I got, and hopefully it will be better.
I'm dreaming a whole lot, even nights when I don't feel like I sleep much, so that's reassurance to me that I am sleeing some.
I don't like the really bad fatigue I feel in the morning. I know I'm sleeping better, but weird that I'm more tired.
Hang in there everyone!
Posted by johnnyj on July 2, 2006, at 0:21:46
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by musky on June 29, 2006, at 23:47:50
Hi Musky,
Dramamine is for seaksickness and it helps with nausea and makes one sleepy. It has helped me this week.
I have been up and down. Two good days and then tonight I can't sleep. Worked outside today and it seems to have affected me. I just want to sleep.
johnnyj
Posted by jeninco on July 2, 2006, at 12:09:34
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico... » musky, posted by johnnyj on July 2, 2006, at 0:21:46
Johnny,
Most of the things that are supposed to be soothing and relaxing, get my fired up. I wonder if you're not the same way; if I take a shower within 3 hours of going to bed, can't sleep. Sex a well. Benadryl for that matter, wires me so badly I can hardly close my eyes even when my body feels fatigued.
I'm doing a few things-taking ambien every now and then (no more than 2x/week), taking the dramamine at night-that also makes me very sleepy, and honestly just trying to go with it. I have both nights when I feel like I didn't rest much, but know I had extensive dreams, so I must have....and then there are nights when I hit the pillow hard, than wake up at 8 in a deep fog. So who knows how things will be eventually.
Take care and keep posting. Glad the dramamine helped some.
Posted by musky on July 3, 2006, at 0:01:20
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico... » musky, posted by johnnyj on July 2, 2006, at 0:21:46
>Hi johnny:
Me I would rather tough it out and let my sleep come naturally... slowly it is getting better. I can fall asleep no problem and just wake up once in the night about 4-5am... even this has been a bit better the last 2 days.. But if it helps you thats fine I guess.. just remember that yoiu dont want to get into the habit of one drug to replace another.. The body is smart and will soon create "crisis" to get the drug.. ie, insomnia, etc .. but well if you just use it temporarily..
My mood are the same like u.. up and down... good days then bad days and within the day irritability.
For me its been the anxiety more than anything.. today i was in church and then all of a sudden I felt soo wierd like I was gonna blank out or snap.. I just stayed focused on an object.. it was scary and I felt the anxiety building.. I did some deep breathing and this helped .. then it eventually passed.. I believe that when anxiety levels are high you get this "shorting out".
Anyways I was at my acupuncturist on Friday and since my anxiety has been building more this week , he wants to bump up my treatments to once a week again. I tellyou on Friday after my treatment I was soo calm again.. it really does help.. He told me that it can take years sometimes for the body to recover from the drug.. Hes seen it in other patients of his.. he said to just keep going and eventually w/d will pass. He did say something however that kinda worried me.. he said that sometimes these neurological drugs do damage the nerves and some nerve damage never recovers.. I just hope he means in small numbers of cases.. I thought to myself well.. if theres damage then theres damage.. at least Im not takiing the Remeron to cause further damage.. From what I have read and asked where I work thought they say there is no evidence for BRain damage per say... so that the effects of the Remeron is temporary and that the brains receptors will recover..
Im told that even after the drug is out of the body that its the relearning of the how the neurotransmitters fire up in the brain is what causes the problems we get... but in time the body readjusts... I try not to get to panicky about this theory and hope that one day I will feel normal again..5 weeks off now and im hanging in... my nausea better now... how about you?
and even headaches are better ..
its just this damn tension in the backj of my head. upper back and eyes and the mood stuff, anxiety/panic stuff thats been goin on for me.. I think this part will take some time..Musky
Hi Musky,
>
> Dramamine is for seaksickness and it helps with nausea and makes one sleepy. It has helped me this week.
>
> I have been up and down. Two good days and then tonight I can't sleep. Worked outside today and it seems to have affected me. I just want to sleep.
>
> johnnyj
Posted by johnnyj on July 3, 2006, at 16:29:14
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by musky on July 3, 2006, at 0:01:20
Well, my sleep is still not very good. I have been having a hard time falling asleep and then I wake up once and sleep a little more. But I have had some sleepless nights and then I feel all spaced out during the day.
I have been having a dip in mood after eating. More spaciness too after eating. I have had more depressed mood than anxiety. The stomach tightness that moved up and down my chest has almost totally stopped only to be replaced by a depressed feeling. If I slept better I wouldn't have this. Each day is very different in mood. Kind of cob webby feeling at times like things are misfiring in my brain. I guess that is the brain readjusting.
One good thing is my appettite. It has been good and I want to eat more at times. I view this as my body wanting nutrients so I feed it healthy stuff.
My head tension is better but is still there. This has been very hard and contributes to my depressed mood. I have times where I want to yell as I get so frustrated, especially, not being able to fall asleep. A lot of the techniques have not worked to calm my mind when that happpens. I am not very motivated either. Just feel like resting but it is hard to relax.
cheers
johnnyj
Posted by johnnyj on July 3, 2006, at 17:22:34
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by jeninco on July 2, 2006, at 12:09:34
Jenico,
I know what you mean all all accounts. Things that have negatively affected me are
1. excercise, can hardly take anything right now.
2. Sex, it used to help me sleep now I am wired and that so bums me out. But, my libido is up and down with my moods. It is very strange. I notice someone attractive, sometimes really notice them but yet I sometimes and numb to the desire. Remeron killed my desire almost completely though so I tend to think this is my body just adjusting like everything else.
3. Most herbs that calm to the opposite to me. Chamomile wired me, benadryl I don't know. Dramamine is ok so I am thankful for that.
4. Warm shower before bed and I won't sleep and when I do, I wake up feeling terrible.I think this has to be the drug. Our bodies are just so sensitive right now. I am hoping this slowly calms down. The only thing I can do is walk. I wonder if the problems are related to sweating/blood sugar and just our bodies just not relaxing like they should?
johnnyj
Posted by musky on July 5, 2006, at 23:33:00
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by johnnyj on July 3, 2006, at 16:29:14
> Me too.. still waking up but not quite as early.
Im just tired in am... but clearer headed when first getting up. then the anxiety is there and the cloudy brain...
the last few days has been ALOT of muscle tension.. like you say, I cant concentrate.. I find my mind racing from one thought to another.. also quite restless.
I went to acupunture last Friday and he wants to see me more often again once a week because this tension has built up.
the acupunturist told me that w/d can last months to even years!!!! I couldnt believe it.. He said that the important thing is that I am off of it.
sometimes the neurons recover slowly and some are never recovered??!!! so he said .. But at least Im not doing more damage by being on it.
I tried not too worry too much about this as I havent found any reports suggesting this.. and some of the people i have talked to at work say this too.. to not worry the brain will heal..I hope so. cause I couldnt bear to stay all wierd like this..
while on the Remeron I wasnt cloudy brain.. just totally numbed out.. and dissconnected ... but since tapering and also now being off is when I have been getting the cloudy brain... derealization stuff. its wierd.
also when I was on the Remeron I was EXTREMELY AGITATED.. couldnt sit still or stand stilll. This has improved some since being off. but I think now the body is changing again as my anxiety is higher now... I still believe its w/d , because BEFORE the Remeron was not restless or tension like I have now..
I had neck problems but this is a differnt tension. it makes it hard to sit still and read for example..
BoY i hope this part will setle down.
NOt big depression. but just kinda down. mostly for me its the anxiety/panic stuff and fear of passing out/ fainting, etc, so i just try to do all the things to keep me calm
MOod better today , but the last 4 days I was realy irritable.. fighting with family, etc.. and no patience with people.. i could have gotten into a fight with a complete stranger had I the chance!! sheesh(lol)..
Im keeping up my exercise... its helps settle the tension for a bit at least... I justwant to feel relaxed and not so jittery, tension in back of head/neck.shoulders... I have been doing my stretches and massage.. its just this overwhelming tension i feel all the time...
I will wait it out... No way I will take any meds for stress... that is not the solution..
Good luck
Musky
Well, my sleep is still not very good. I have been having a hard time falling asleep and then I wake up once and sleep a little more. But I have had some sleepless nights and then I feel all spaced out during the day.
>
> I have been having a dip in mood after eating. More spaciness too after eating. I have had more depressed mood than anxiety. The stomach tightness that moved up and down my chest has almost totally stopped only to be replaced by a depressed feeling. If I slept better I wouldn't have this. Each day is very different in mood. Kind of cob webby feeling at times like things are misfiring in my brain. I guess that is the brain readjusting.
>
> One good thing is my appettite. It has been good and I want to eat more at times. I view this as my body wanting nutrients so I feed it healthy stuff.
>
> My head tension is better but is still there. This has been very hard and contributes to my depressed mood. I have times where I want to yell as I get so frustrated, especially, not being able to fall asleep. A lot of the techniques have not worked to calm my mind when that happpens. I am not very motivated either. Just feel like resting but it is hard to relax.
>
> cheers
>
> johnnyj
Posted by musky on July 5, 2006, at 23:42:16
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico... » jeninco, posted by johnnyj on July 3, 2006, at 17:22:34
> Hey johnny:
I think you are right about the blood sugar.. I forgot to mention this too.. before meal time I am more restless and weak,, then I eat and im calmer... MY blood sugar and blood tests are all normal by the way so I know it is this drugs effects...
too bad you cant drink cammomile tea.. it relaxes me
Have you tried a hot bath rather than a shower?? showers stimulate the nervous system.. maybe try this at night instead.. then go straight to bed.
I know what you mean by libido.. lately I have been more sensitive to the opposite sex, like now I find males too atttractive... besides my husband(lol)... this is weird.. cause on the remeron i was just numb.. now its like my body is coming totally alive and all my senses (hearing taste and seeing are soo sensitive)... Food is finally starting to taste again, whereas before I would just gorge while on the Remeron... also not craving the sweets as much as when I was on it too.keep hangin in
6 weeks off for me today... and im still carrin on.it helps to read these posts..
Musky
Jenico,
>
> I know what you mean all all accounts. Things that have negatively affected me are
> 1. excercise, can hardly take anything right now.
> 2. Sex, it used to help me sleep now I am wired and that so bums me out. But, my libido is up and down with my moods. It is very strange. I notice someone attractive, sometimes really notice them but yet I sometimes and numb to the desire. Remeron killed my desire almost completely though so I tend to think this is my body just adjusting like everything else.
> 3. Most herbs that calm to the opposite to me. Chamomile wired me, benadryl I don't know. Dramamine is ok so I am thankful for that.
> 4. Warm shower before bed and I won't sleep and when I do, I wake up feeling terrible.
>
> I think this has to be the drug. Our bodies are just so sensitive right now. I am hoping this slowly calms down. The only thing I can do is walk. I wonder if the problems are related to sweating/blood sugar and just our bodies just not relaxing like they should?
>
> johnnyj
Posted by jules354 on July 6, 2006, at 12:57:45
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico... » jeninco, posted by johnnyj on July 3, 2006, at 17:22:34
hi johnnyj and musky,
i'm so sorry to hear things are still really tough. i'm still doing pretty well although once in a while my sleep is crappy and i still feel like i'm "normalizing." the possibility of permanent damage is really scary - i wish more research were being done!
johnnyj, i think it's normal that you might not react to herbs differently than others. they're like any medicine that way; often have to use trial and error. there's a really great book called The New Holistic Herbal by David Hoffman. I've used it a lot over the years and it's helpful bcs he offers lots of different options bcs different herbs work for different people.
I looked up insomnia and Hoffman recommends the following herbs; they can often be found in health teas or you can buy them bulk at a health food store:
California Poppy
Hops
Jamaican Dogwood
Passion Flower
Valerian (quite powerful in my experience and for some reason popular with cats!)
Jamaican Dogwood
Lime Blossom
Red CloverHOpe this helps.
take care,
jules
Posted by johnnyj on July 6, 2006, at 14:48:57
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by musky on July 5, 2006, at 23:42:16
Hey Musky:
I know exactly what you mean about finding the opposite sex too attractive. I am relieved to hear someone else has had those feelings as I was wondering if something was wrong with me. At other times I don't find anyone attractive so that is strange too. I guess it is just the ups and downs.
Last night I had the best sleep since going off. I don't know why but I slept about 8 hours and only woke up once. When I had to get up I just wanted to sleep more and hadn't felt that is such a long time. I even didn't take advil last night. I didn't really feel too down today either and I wasn't flying off the handle. Again, I expect ups and downs so I am just taking one day at a time.
I really feel my body will require a lot of time to adjust. Cheers.
johnnyj
Posted by johnnyj on July 6, 2006, at 14:54:09
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by jules354 on July 6, 2006, at 12:57:45
Hello Jules:
Thank you for the very kind sleep information. I will check a few of those out. The Chamomille was definately not for me. I contiue to have ups and downs but I am hoping for more ups. Last night was good so I am hoping I can have more of that tonight.
I walked at noon today and get really tired quick. That is why I think my body just needs a lot of time to heal. I so want to exercise hard but I just can't handle it right now. Walking and light garden is about all I can do and that is ok.
I hope you are doing well. Balance is the key.
Cheers
johnnyj
Posted by musky on July 6, 2006, at 22:56:06
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by jules354 on July 6, 2006, at 12:57:45
>
Hi jules
yes its been tough.. and I think it takes time and we just have to be patient... its hard sometimes when you are feeling crappy. but at least I have some times where its not too bad.
Funny you should mention the valerian being popular with cats! When I tried it quite some time ago before any of my experience with meds I found that my bottle above my bed was always knocked over.. i couldnt figure out why,, then I realized later it was one of my cats always sooo attracted to this stuff!!)(lol)
Well im still going for my acupuncture for the anxiety part.. mood still not normalized and thought processes all mixed up... sleep is getting there but I still have early wakings..
musky
hi johnnyj and musky,
>
> i'm so sorry to hear things are still really tough. i'm still doing pretty well although once in a while my sleep is crappy and i still feel like i'm "normalizing." the possibility of permanent damage is really scary - i wish more research were being done!
>
> johnnyj, i think it's normal that you might not react to herbs differently than others. they're like any medicine that way; often have to use trial and error. there's a really great book called The New Holistic Herbal by David Hoffman. I've used it a lot over the years and it's helpful bcs he offers lots of different options bcs different herbs work for different people.
>
> I looked up insomnia and Hoffman recommends the following herbs; they can often be found in health teas or you can buy them bulk at a health food store:
>
> California Poppy
> Hops
> Jamaican Dogwood
> Passion Flower
> Valerian (quite powerful in my experience and for some reason popular with cats!)
> Jamaican Dogwood
> Lime Blossom
> Red Clover
>
> HOpe this helps.
>
> take care,
> jules
Posted by musky on July 6, 2006, at 23:02:18
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by johnnyj on July 6, 2006, at 14:48:57
>Hey johnnyj:
so glad to hear that you FINALLY slept .. good for you!!! I knew that in time this would start to improve.. its the body you know... so that you tell you that yes it will balance again.. maybe not all at once but slowly...
I sleep about 6hrs , wish it was at least 8hrs . thats when i feel the best.. but at least im not having such vivid dreams anymore ...or very little times now... got sudden jerking the other nite while falling alsleep but otherwise havent had this problem lately since being off.
Im still anxious .. but today wasnt as cloudy brain... so this is up and down... im still restless alot... but exercise is helping at least curb that for a bit...
I just want my emotions back and not be stuck in this strange state forever (in fear of there really was brain damage!)must not think this way or i will get more anxious.
good to hear that your depressed mood is better today tooHang in there
MuskyHey Musky:
>
> I know exactly what you mean about finding the opposite sex too attractive. I am relieved to hear someone else has had those feelings as I was wondering if something was wrong with me. At other times I don't find anyone attractive so that is strange too. I guess it is just the ups and downs.
>
> Last night I had the best sleep since going off. I don't know why but I slept about 8 hours and only woke up once. When I had to get up I just wanted to sleep more and hadn't felt that is such a long time. I even didn't take advil last night. I didn't really feel too down today either and I wasn't flying off the handle. Again, I expect ups and downs so I am just taking one day at a time.
>
> I really feel my body will require a lot of time to adjust. Cheers.
>
> johnnyj
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 7, 2006, at 3:03:54
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by jules354 on July 6, 2006, at 12:57:45
> there's a really great book called The New Holistic Herbal by David Hoffman. I've used it a lot over the years and it's helpful bcs he offers lots of different options bcs different herbs work for different people.
I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
The first time anyone refers to a book, movie, or music without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she at least knows about it. It's just an option, though, and doesn't *have* to be used. If people *choose* not to use it, I'd be interested why not, but I'd like that redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html
Thanks!
Bob
Posted by jeninco on July 8, 2006, at 20:56:23
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by musky on July 6, 2006, at 23:02:18
I'm down to 1/8 of a 15 mg pill every two days. And feeling completely crappy as a result-why? Lack of sleep. This is the reason I was on the medication to begin with, so probably no surprise that the problems are back. Dramamine is no longer making me drowsy. I took ambien two days in a row and felt soooo crappy, that I stayed up most of last night and finally crashed around 6, and slept off and on until 10:30. Great! Fractured sleep, and sleeping in late. :( The nauseation is up too, that, and I keep getting waves of a hot flash-like feeling (and I'm only 33). I'll still take this over what I felt when I stopped cold turkey but the sucking is beginning. Also, I felt anxious and shakey today but hard to tell if it's lack of sleep or what.
Posted by cashy72 on July 10, 2006, at 8:32:59
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by jeninco on July 8, 2006, at 20:56:23
Hey there guys, been away on holiday in the sunshine for a while,no work, and it's been great, back at work now unfortunately!:(
How's it going for you all? I've been off the remeron now for 8 or 9 weeks, and it's getting easier... Still light sleep, and morning anxiety, but i'm sure with every week that passes, i'm getting back on track.. fingers crossed.
Hope your all ok..
Hang in there.
CASHY72
Posted by johnnyj on July 10, 2006, at 19:48:26
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by jeninco on July 8, 2006, at 20:56:23
Jenico,
I am sorry you are having a difficult time. I don't know about the every other day method. I think weaning down to a dose every day and then stopping seems to be a better strategy but I am not sure.
For me, week 4 and 5 were the worst. I had some very rough nights. Personally, nausea is to be expected as that was/is one of my worst symptoms. I used dramamine for that and it helped. I think some of the shakiness and anxiety is from not sleeping and the rest from the withdrawal. Trying to let the anxiety slide through you and not dwelling on it helps. I will say a prayer for you tonight. take care.
johnnyj
Posted by johnnyj on July 10, 2006, at 19:59:03
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by cashy72 on July 10, 2006, at 8:32:59
Hey Cashy,
I hope you had a nice vacation, but that is obvious! They are always nice.
Last Thursday, 6 weeks and one day after my last dose I felt better. Sleep seemed a little deeper. It is strange because the start of the week was harsh. I slept decent Thursday, Friday, and Saturday, and ok on Sunday. My mood was much better also.
Today was kind of hard and I had lots of anxiety after eating tonight. I am cautious because too many times I thought I turned a corner only to get knocked back. Last night I had some trouble getting to sleep and then only got up once and the alarm actually woke me up at 6 am. That hasen't happened for 6 weeks! I seem prone to ups and downs so I am just a little optimistic right now. And also prone to sleep getting better only to fall back again. I like getting woken up by the alarm but I do feel different after getting up in the sense I used to be able to crash right back to sleep and now I am wide awake.
The morning anxiety you describe is so accurate and I think Musky has the same. It is always worse upon waking up. Strange for sure. Week 4 and 5 were terrible for me. I would wake up and after hitting a certain waking state the anxiety would hit, not a panic attack, just nagging. Those few weeks nothing helped me. Not, reading, meditation, music, etc., I just was sick of it all and just wanted to rest but even that was hard.
Cashy, I hope you, and all of us, find the peace we need and deserve.
Cheers
johnnyj
Posted by johnnyj on July 10, 2006, at 20:02:39
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by musky on July 6, 2006, at 23:02:18
Musky bud,
How is it going? From my post above you can see things have improved a bit for me. Still a long, long ways to go but I think I can see some light. How is the sleep progressing?
johnnyj
Posted by musky on July 13, 2006, at 0:58:01
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico... » cashy72, posted by johnnyj on July 10, 2006, at 19:59:03
Hi all
Well its 7 weeks off Remeron and like johnny up and down.. but sleep is more solid these days.. waking up at 6am instead of 4am but still, like johnny , cant go back to sleep like I use to.. I am assuming this too will even out. so at least the quality of sleep is better these days.. the only thing is that sometimes I get a strong jerk somewhere beforefalling asleep.. strange as I havent had the jerking since i was on the higher doses of remeron... Again I think its just the nervous system adjusting...
anxiety a litle better.. still going to acupuncture and this is helping.. he is doing a differnt pattern again for this.. he is awsome acupuncturist..
LIke johnny anxiety is worse in the morning.. its like i first wake up in bed , then after about 5minutes I feel this overwhelming feeling of hoplessness, helpless, orcould just cry,... its soo wierd.. then the mood is up and down but more even the last couple days now..
Still getting the disconnected feeling but that comes and goes too..
I am just staying positive as much as i can.
I am on some of my holidays this week, just enjoying the weather and sun.. then in 2weeks i go for my "real vacation" to the beach and mts! so I am just trying to stay focused.
nausea is gone... and itchyness as well much better. After my summer vacation I am planning to do a detox .. end of August or so...
sometimes I get the real depressed feeling and just want to quit and give up, but then I shake this bad feeling and then im ok... its soo wierd this mood stuff.
last night I was listening to this live band (latin type music ) and it was sooo moving i just cried for the first time since being on Remeron. it felt so healing... my emotions have been numbed for so long on that stuff.well take care everyone.. good luck jenico keep weaning no matter what.. I think in time it does get better..
Musky
Hey Cashy,
>
> I hope you had a nice vacation, but that is obvious! They are always nice.
>
> Last Thursday, 6 weeks and one day after my last dose I felt better. Sleep seemed a little deeper. It is strange because the start of the week was harsh. I slept decent Thursday, Friday, and Saturday, and ok on Sunday. My mood was much better also.
>
> Today was kind of hard and I had lots of anxiety after eating tonight. I am cautious because too many times I thought I turned a corner only to get knocked back. Last night I had some trouble getting to sleep and then only got up once and the alarm actually woke me up at 6 am. That hasen't happened for 6 weeks! I seem prone to ups and downs so I am just a little optimistic right now. And also prone to sleep getting better only to fall back again. I like getting woken up by the alarm but I do feel different after getting up in the sense I used to be able to crash right back to sleep and now I am wide awake.
>
> The morning anxiety you describe is so accurate and I think Musky has the same. It is always worse upon waking up. Strange for sure. Week 4 and 5 were terrible for me. I would wake up and after hitting a certain waking state the anxiety would hit, not a panic attack, just nagging. Those few weeks nothing helped me. Not, reading, meditation, music, etc., I just was sick of it all and just wanted to rest but even that was hard.
>
> Cashy, I hope you, and all of us, find the peace we need and deserve.
>
> Cheers
>
> johnnyj
Posted by musky on July 13, 2006, at 1:01:03
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico... » musky, posted by johnnyj on July 10, 2006, at 20:02:39
> Hey johnnyj
Things are better today for me... had acupuncture and feel more calm... good to see that you are doign better.. you were sounding real rough before..again i think that maybe this will pass for us.. hard to stay in this mindset sometimes when you are feeling anxious or depressed or dissconnected. but then when you do feel not too bad thats when you get the hopes up..
hang in there.Musky
Musky bud,
>
> How is it going? From my post above you can see things have improved a bit for me. Still a long, long ways to go but I think I can see some light. How is the sleep progressing?
>
> johnnyj
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