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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 39. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by atmlady on January 26, 2008, at 9:22:39
Feeling pretty darn good at the close of day 2 of my ixel/trivastal trial. Mood has lifted considerably, focus is better, energy up, am sleeping great and am nice to my teenagers. ("What's wrong, mom? You're acting happy!" Seriously)
The Trivastal I started last week, dropping my pricey wellbutrin entirely. Experienced no side effects at all, began feeling pleasurable emotions but more importantly began sleeping much better. Effects of Trivastal alone seem very mild to me; however, I was on the MAX dose of wellbutrin so that may explain my tolerance. Now take 50mg with breakfast, lunch and dinner.
Added Ixel on Thursday morning. Just like with Lexapro, I felt the effects of Ixel almost immediately, and they were good. I knew I needed serotonin, but didn't want the anorgasmia that always seems to come with SSRI's for me. Thus the Ixel test, as supposedly the sexual side effects are practically zero.
Was going to start slow on the Ixel, but felt so darn good that I decided to take the 2nd 50mg dose (it's a 2 x a day drug) with dinner. By good I mean good mood but also juiced up, pepped up, not buzzed or wired but alert and shoot, I don't know, just feeling good. Got the chills going on the back of my arms, like you get from a stimulant, but don't feel any of the other side effects of stimulants, like dry mouth, suppressed appetite.
So I took the 2nd dose with dinner (1st was at breakfast) and kinda expected to be up for a while, reading or whatever, but went to sleep at 9:30, slept like a baby. Woke up refreshed. Weird. Sleep has been a problem with me for years, and that's another reason I wanted to try Ixel, because it supposedly gives better quality sleep. Don't ask me how, when it works 3:1 NE to SE, but looks like it's true. Then again, I am on TWO new drugs, so can't say for sure what's causing what. What I can say for sure is together, the effect so far is positive for me. Still gonna use my light box in the morning. I'm sure that factors in my mood somewhere, too.
The make-or-break test for Ixel will be the orgasm test. I'm gonna give it two weeks - Lexapro kills my orgasms by end of week one, like clockwork - and if I'm still OK in that department after week 2, I may have to declare Ixel a miracle drug. Till then, let's just say I'm cautiously optimistic.
I gotta say, too, that this board has been literally a life changer and life saver for me. I'm a newbie and was pretty desperate when I joined and began my "education". I just knew my pdoc was WRONG when she upped my wellbutrin after I told her I was not sleeping, had no energy, couldn't focus, memory shot to hell. I sensed she was just going down the list of things to try out to see if it would work. And I totally get it - nobody knows why these drugs do what they do to our mood, so she is just guessing. I get it.
But here at psychobabble I learned, from all of you babblers, that nobody knows as much about your depression, and nobody cares about it as much, as YOU. And I learned that there's options and that I am smart enough to learn about them and evaluate them. And I learned that I am brave enough (and I truly feel bad enough, which is a big sign of how much I need this medication) to try something radically new. And let me say, that first Trivastal tablet was a scary moment - mystery pills from India?
Perhaps a portion of my elevated mood right now has less to do with the drugs and more to do with feeling good about taking control and being ... right? I guess time will tell. I researched this stuff like crazy and found the drugs that I thought would really work for me, knowing me like I do. And I'm just pleased as punch that so far, so good.
Kisses and Hugs to y'all! Promise to keep you posted...
ATMlady
Posted by Phillipa on January 26, 2008, at 9:22:39
In reply to Trivastal and Ixel - End of Day 2, So far So Good, posted by atmlady on January 25, 2008, at 23:57:55
Yes please do sounds very positive for you. Phillipa
Posted by bulldog2 on January 26, 2008, at 14:54:13
In reply to Trivastal and Ixel - End of Day 2, So far So Good, posted by atmlady on January 26, 2008, at 9:22:39
> Feeling pretty darn good at the close of day 2 of my ixel/trivastal trial. Mood has lifted considerably, focus is better, energy up, am sleeping great and am nice to my teenagers. ("What's wrong, mom? You're acting happy!" Seriously)
>
> The Trivastal I started last week, dropping my pricey wellbutrin entirely. Experienced no side effects at all, began feeling pleasurable emotions but more importantly began sleeping much better. Effects of Trivastal alone seem very mild to me; however, I was on the MAX dose of wellbutrin so that may explain my tolerance. Now take 50mg with breakfast, lunch and dinner.
>
> Added Ixel on Thursday morning. Just like with Lexapro, I felt the effects of Ixel almost immediately, and they were good. I knew I needed serotonin, but didn't want the anorgasmia that always seems to come with SSRI's for me. Thus the Ixel test, as supposedly the sexual side effects are practically zero.
>
> Was going to start slow on the Ixel, but felt so darn good that I decided to take the 2nd 50mg dose (it's a 2 x a day drug) with dinner. By good I mean good mood but also juiced up, pepped up, not buzzed or wired but alert and shoot, I don't know, just feeling good. Got the chills going on the back of my arms, like you get from a stimulant, but don't feel any of the other side effects of stimulants, like dry mouth, suppressed appetite.
>
> So I took the 2nd dose with dinner (1st was at breakfast) and kinda expected to be up for a while, reading or whatever, but went to sleep at 9:30, slept like a baby. Woke up refreshed. Weird. Sleep has been a problem with me for years, and that's another reason I wanted to try Ixel, because it supposedly gives better quality sleep. Don't ask me how, when it works 3:1 NE to SE, but looks like it's true. Then again, I am on TWO new drugs, so can't say for sure what's causing what. What I can say for sure is together, the effect so far is positive for me. Still gonna use my light box in the morning. I'm sure that factors in my mood somewhere, too.
>
> The make-or-break test for Ixel will be the orgasm test. I'm gonna give it two weeks - Lexapro kills my orgasms by end of week one, like clockwork - and if I'm still OK in that department after week 2, I may have to declare Ixel a miracle drug. Till then, let's just say I'm cautiously optimistic.
>
> I gotta say, too, that this board has been literally a life changer and life saver for me. I'm a newbie and was pretty desperate when I joined and began my "education". I just knew my pdoc was WRONG when she upped my wellbutrin after I told her I was not sleeping, had no energy, couldn't focus, memory shot to hell. I sensed she was just going down the list of things to try out to see if it would work. And I totally get it - nobody knows why these drugs do what they do to our mood, so she is just guessing. I get it.
>
> But here at psychobabble I learned, from all of you babblers, that nobody knows as much about your depression, and nobody cares about it as much, as YOU. And I learned that there's options and that I am smart enough to learn about them and evaluate them. And I learned that I am brave enough (and I truly feel bad enough, which is a big sign of how much I need this medication) to try something radically new. And let me say, that first Trivastal tablet was a scary moment - mystery pills from India?
>
> Perhaps a portion of my elevated mood right now has less to do with the drugs and more to do with feeling good about taking control and being ... right? I guess time will tell. I researched this stuff like crazy and found the drugs that I thought would really work for me, knowing me like I do. And I'm just pleased as punch that so far, so good.
>
> Kisses and Hugs to y'all! Promise to keep you posted...
>
> ATMladyAre you taking the name brand trivastal (retard) or the generic version (la) from India? You are taking 150 milligrams a day? What is Ixel?
Posted by atmlady on January 26, 2008, at 17:09:19
In reply to Re: Trivastal and Ixel - End of Day 2, So far So Good, posted by bulldog2 on January 26, 2008, at 14:54:13
Hi, Bulldog - I'm taking the LA from India, but will probably try the retard version now that I know it's working - it's a pain to have to take 3 times a day. Yes, 50 mg each dose so a total of 150 per day.
Ixel is an SNRI - it's sort of like effexor and cymbalta in that it inhibits the re-uptake of both serotonin and norepinephrine. But unlike those others, Ixel works more on NE than on SE. What I read was that where effexor works on serotonin and NE in a ratio of 30:1 and cymbalta works on them in a ratio of 9:1, Ixel works them on a ratio of 1:3. Not sure if this is why there are less sexual side effects or if that is due to something else.
Ixel has been used as an antidepressant in europe, Japan and south america for several years, and is currently in stage III clinical trils in the US as a treatment for fibromyalgia. If you google fibromyalgia and the brand name ixel (or the drug name milnacipran) you will come across several boards where patients have left glowing reports of the drug's effect on their mood and pain. Many who came off the trials loved the drug so much they continue to buy it on their own.
The folks who discontinued the drug did it due to high blood pressure problems or difficulty urinating, and many of those were unhappy that they couldn't stay on it.
End of day three and feeling fab!
Posted by bulldog2 on January 26, 2008, at 17:44:51
In reply to Re: Trivastal and Ixel - End of Day 2, So far So G » bulldog2, posted by atmlady on January 26, 2008, at 17:09:19
> Hi, Bulldog - I'm taking the LA from India, but will probably try the retard version now that I know it's working - it's a pain to have to take 3 times a day. Yes, 50 mg each dose so a total of 150 per day.
>
> Ixel is an SNRI - it's sort of like effexor and cymbalta in that it inhibits the re-uptake of both serotonin and norepinephrine. But unlike those others, Ixel works more on NE than on SE. What I read was that where effexor works on serotonin and NE in a ratio of 30:1 and cymbalta works on them in a ratio of 9:1, Ixel works them on a ratio of 1:3. Not sure if this is why there are less sexual side effects or if that is due to something else.
>
> Ixel has been used as an antidepressant in europe, Japan and south america for several years, and is currently in stage III clinical trils in the US as a treatment for fibromyalgia. If you google fibromyalgia and the brand name ixel (or the drug name milnacipran) you will come across several boards where patients have left glowing reports of the drug's effect on their mood and pain. Many who came off the trials loved the drug so much they continue to buy it on their own.
>
> The folks who discontinued the drug did it due to high blood pressure problems or difficulty urinating, and many of those were unhappy that they couldn't stay on it.
>
> End of day three and feeling fab!That is quite significant! Cymbalta and effexor are serotonin dominant and the reverse is true for ixel.I personally believe in chemical imbalance but I believe that varies from person to person..So that Ixel might be the right ad for someone where others have failed..Also have tried trivastal ad at 50 mg with limited sucess so I might try 100 mg and see if that improves the combo with luvox. Thank you for your input!
Posted by bleauberry on January 26, 2008, at 19:24:58
In reply to Trivastal and Ixel - End of Day 2, So far So Good, posted by atmlady on January 26, 2008, at 9:22:39
That's awesome these meds have you feeling good. Throw a party!
I am staring at my Trivastal I've had now for about a month and too scared to try it. Any advice on that?
I'm worried about something really frieky happening. Psychosis, deep depression, severe agitation, heart pounding anxiety, stuff like that. I need more optimism and bravery.
What is the best time to take a first trial dose...morning or evening? Keep in mind I probably am going to be senstive to anything in the dopamine circuits. I am sure that is where my symptoms reside, but they have been screwed up for so long, or tweeked by an antipsychotic for so long, that I feel vulnerable to dopamine manipulation. I really want to be wrong about that. I have been med free for a year, so I think I will be sensitive to any drug.
I just finished trial 2 of Ixel. Like you, I felt goodness real fast on it. Great medicine it is. Other norepinephrine drugs such as nortriptyline or reboxetine were just horrible for me. Really bad. So how Ixel could be so good is a mystery. But it was. I am real sad that the inability to urinate was the primary side effect that made me stop. I did not have nausea, but it did hurt my appetite. I ate less. Slept great though. Real good sleep. Good energy, more sociable, less depressed, more productive at everything, more creative. I could not get past week 2 though and I was only on 25mg. At that dose I could still pee but it was hard. The problem was that with the short halflife I woke up with withdrawals each morning. Bad headache, depressed. As soon as the med kicked in after breakfast, I was all new again. Then later in the day as it wore off the mood and energy wore of too. I tried taking split doses of 12.5mg across the day and that didn't work. It had to be at least 25mg to do good.
The only other weird side effect was a slightly stuff nose. And I also had a runny nose for a couple hours after each dose. Weird.
All in all Ixel is an awesome antidepressant. Better than anything the USA has to offer. Forget the mechanisim of how it works. That is just armchair theory anyway. Serotonin, norepineprhine, ratios versus cymbalta and effexor, etc...meaningless. The drugs and the brain are much more complicated than such simplistic views. All I can say is, Ixel, it just works, and it works fast, as long as you can pee. :-)
Hey, help me out with Trivastal please.
Posted by elanor roosevelt on January 26, 2008, at 20:11:42
In reply to Re: Trivastal and Ixel - Questions and Comments » atmlady, posted by bleauberry on January 26, 2008, at 19:24:58
I started the Trivastal at night
the first 3 or 4 doses made me so tired my eyes were rolling into my head
but you must eat something before
i learned that hard way but on the second night i had a few pieces of dry toast with iti like trivastal and now i take it twice a day
at meal times and it does not make me ill or tired
it has let in some pleasuresorry to hear the ixel gave you bad mornings and health issues
Posted by clipper40 on January 27, 2008, at 2:57:57
In reply to Re: Trivastal and Ixel - End of Day 2, So far So G » bulldog2, posted by atmlady on January 26, 2008, at 17:09:19
Like Bleauberry, I'm also very terrified of trying new medications. One of my concerns with Trivastal Retard is that I can't try out a small amount of it first. I usually like to take tiny doses and then work up to a normal dose in case I have some kind of bad reaction to it. The way you're describing the LA version from India, I'm wondering if you can break that up into smaller pills without messing with the delivery system? If that's the case, then I'll get that version instead (at least to start with).
Posted by clipper40 on January 27, 2008, at 7:06:57
In reply to Re: Trivastal and Ixel - End of Day 2, So far So G » atmlady, posted by clipper40 on January 27, 2008, at 2:57:57
Actually, I just realized that there's another version which isn't L.A. or Retard. It's non-sustained release. So maybe that's what ATMlady has. That would work great for trying out a small amount first and then building up to 50 mg. Then one could easily switch to L.A. or Retard version.
Posted by clipper40 on January 27, 2008, at 7:13:34
In reply to Re: Trivastal and Ixel - End of Day 2, So far So G » atmlady, posted by clipper40 on January 27, 2008, at 2:57:57
Actually, I just realized that there's another version which isn't L.A. or Retard. It's non-sustained release. So maybe that's what ATMlady has. That would work great for trying out a small amount first and then building up to 50 mg. Then one could easily switch to L.A. or Retard version.
Posted by elanor roosevelt on January 27, 2008, at 8:21:28
In reply to Re: Trivastal non-sustained release form, posted by clipper40 on January 27, 2008, at 7:13:34
I had no adverse reactions to starting at 50mg a day as long as i took it at night with food
might have had some tired mornings but not now
dreams are better immediately
Posted by clipper40 on January 27, 2008, at 11:29:15
In reply to Re: Trivastal non-sustained release form, posted by elanor roosevelt on January 27, 2008, at 8:21:28
Good to know! Thanks.
Posted by atmlady on January 27, 2008, at 11:30:55
In reply to Re: Trivastal and Ixel - Questions and Comments » atmlady, posted by bleauberry on January 26, 2008, at 19:24:58
Hi, Bleauberry! I too have the runny nose with ixel! Funny, huh? That's too bad you couldn't continue with it; I know how you feel - I have the same relationship with Lexapro.
I was frightened to take the Trivastal, too. I took my first dose at night because I was afraid of the nausea and sleepiness that some others had reported. I had taken my 450mg of wellbutrin that morning, so I was also afraid of what the the interaction might be between the two drugs. I took the dose with a slice of bread and some cheese and a glass of water about 9:30pm. Laid in the bed reading, trying to relax, but hyper-alert to any twitch, itch, pain, or ghostly movement out of the corner of my eye. Was afraid I'd get super sleepy really fast, kept waiting to feel sleepy but never did. Kept waiting to feel nausea but never did. Kept waiting to feel confused, irritable, crazy, weepy - whatever, but I never did. Still, I was afraid. Told my 14 year old daughter to sleep with me that night - thinking if I had a seizure or started sleepwalking or something strange, she would at least be around to help call 911. So yeah, I was totally anxious and paranoid about taking the mystery pills. I stayed up for many hours, just thinking about stuff and things, quite alert, but finally calming down, eventually fell asleep about 3. Up at 5:30 feeling fine.
In the morning I thought, man, this stuff must be sugar pills - it must not be working because I don't feel any different. But I kept plugging at it - I was running out of wellbutrin and did not want to buy more, but the ixel had not yet arrived. So I decided to wean off the wellbutrin and replace it with trivastal and if my mystery pills were genuine, not sugar pills, then I should be able to switch over with few problems - that was my hypothesis. And it worked. That day I took 300mg of wb, the next 150mg and the next zero. And increased the trivastal from 50, to 100 to 150 per day. And no withdrawal symptoms. So that's what told me that the trivastal does indeed work on dopamine. If it was a sugar pill I'd have been sick from dropping the wellbutrin so abruptly. During that first week of Trivastal, I took at least one nap a day, and I mean really great naps. I never slept well on wellbutrin, and felt like I was making up a lot of lost sleep. I started dreaming again, good dreams. In one dream I heard my mother (dead 10 years) talking to me as if she were right there. In another my boyfriend made love to me and it seemed real! So, good dreams. Which I think might be because my unconscious and well as my conscious is beginning to experience pleasure and joy. Mind you, it's not like I'm bounding around in a joyful mania. In fact, the amount of pleasure and joy I'm experiencing on trivastal is probably still less than a normal person feels, but it's more than I've felt in a while. And really, for an anxious person like me who (really, I swear) does not like to take pills, it's just perfect. I prefer mild over wild, because I feel a little more in control.
Also, I kinda feel like it's working better as time goes by. Like maybe the blood levels had to be at a certain level for a certain period before it really began it's good works. Maybe my dopamine receptors needed to learn what to do with the new chemicals floating around. Then again, it may be the addition of ixel that seems to make it feel like it's working better.
Anyway, Bleauberry, I wouldn't be too afraid of taking that first dose. If you are paranoid like me about how it might affect you, take it in the morning on your day off, so you can putter around
and won't lay in bed worrying about whether your heart is still beating correctly, like I did! It does not make me sleepy at all. But if it makes yo sleepy you can always take a nap if it's your day off.Hope this helps you take the leap!
ATMlady
Posted by atmlady on January 27, 2008, at 11:48:46
In reply to Re: Trivastal non-sustained release form, posted by clipper40 on January 27, 2008, at 7:06:57
Hi, Clipper - No I'm using the LA, which I think means "long-acting", though for me, I think it lasts about 7-8 hours at the most. So I take it at 6am, noon and 6pm to try to keep a steady level. The 50mg pills I received are coated round tablets. I can't imagine they would be easy to cut in half without making a mess, but I'm sure it could be done. Might cause more of a problem with nausea if you take half a caplet and are missing that coating where it was cut, if you know what I mean.
I swear I remember reading in the package insert for the LA, of course right at the moment I can't find it, but I thought I read that it had two peaks - first one at 1 hour after ingesting and another smaller peak after 7 hours. I guess that's why they call it long-acting? But I can't say that I notice the second peak at all. Which is why I take them 6 hours apart. Then again, I was on the max dose of wellbutrin for quite a while and am used to continuous dopamine help. Someone who is relying on his own dopamine may notice the two peaks, but I don't.
Posted by Sigismund on January 27, 2008, at 18:58:32
In reply to Re: Trivastal non-sustained release form » clipper40, posted by atmlady on January 27, 2008, at 11:48:46
Any ideas about the duration of action of LA vs Retard?
Posted by clipper40 on January 27, 2008, at 21:09:04
In reply to Re: Trivastal non-sustained release form » clipper40, posted by atmlady on January 27, 2008, at 11:48:46
Guess I'd just have to be brave and take the whole pill then. Thanks.
Posted by Phillipa on January 27, 2008, at 23:50:39
In reply to Re: Trivastal non-sustained release form » atmlady, posted by clipper40 on January 27, 2008, at 21:09:04
Let us know how it goes sounds good so far for everyone. Phillipa
Posted by bulldog2 on January 28, 2008, at 14:47:40
In reply to Re: Trivastal LA vs Retard, posted by Sigismund on January 27, 2008, at 18:58:32
> Any ideas about the duration of action of LA vs Retard?
The retard is supposed to have a half life of 24 hours. The LA has two phases of release. The first is a half life of about 1 1/2 hours and the second phase about 6 1/2 hours. So it would seem you're getting a much more gradual release with Retard because both are a 50 mg pill.
Posted by atmlady on January 28, 2008, at 20:33:11
In reply to Re: Trivastal LA vs Retard, posted by bulldog2 on January 28, 2008, at 14:47:40
Day 4 on Ixel, day 10 on Trivastal
This Trivastal is so funny in how it enhances pleasure. I can go all day long doing normal things and not feel any different. But then some little thing - a song on the radio perhaps - will just affect me profoundly. I get a huge rush of pleasure and I'm like "This song is soooooo great!!!" Last night I had a sweet potato with dinner and felt like it was the best sweet potato I ever had in my life - it was sooooooo good! Then I checked myself - wait a minute, that's the trivastal.
It's weird that this effect is not constant. It just comes out of the blue. How come when I'm doing dishes or laundry I don't feel like this is the most fun EVER? It's like, if you already find pleasure in something - a type of food or a certain song - the trivastal enhances that. But it doesn't make you feel pleasure over things that you're just kinda "whatever" about.....
Then again, there are plenty of songs that I love and foods that I love that I don't get a rush over at all. I don't really get that.
Posted by clipper40 on January 28, 2008, at 20:57:30
In reply to Trivastal Musings, posted by atmlady on January 28, 2008, at 20:33:11
That is strange how it increases your pleasure some of the time but not all of the time. I already can get pleasure from things, especially music. If it can enhance that, then great. If not, no problem... as long as it can give me some motivation!!!
What dosage of Ixel are you on now? Any other reactions to that to report?
Posted by atmlady on January 30, 2008, at 20:42:47
In reply to Re: Trivastal Musings » atmlady, posted by clipper40 on January 28, 2008, at 20:57:30
Hi, Clipper! LOVE the Ixel. LOVE LOVE LOVE it. Just now at the end of week 1 and boy does it work! I'm going to wait another week before I decide to propose to whoever it was that invented Ixel, just to make sure I am not foolishly infatuated with it ;)
The NE boost is very powerful, and I do have some of the usual side effects related to that - supressed appetite, rapid heartbeat sometimes, mild hot-flashy feelings, sometimes a bit dizzy if I stand up fast. But NO PROBLEMS sleeping, oddly enough. I wake up feeling great.
I am thinking I might discontinue the Trivastal at some point, as a test, because it seems like my thinking is a bit clearer as the Trivastal wears off. Plus, how much of my love for Ixel is due to Trivastal making me fall in love with things like sweet potatoes and Three Dog Night? It would be interesting to see what Ixel is like on its own ....
Posted by clipper40 on January 30, 2008, at 22:35:59
In reply to Re: Trivastal Musings » clipper40, posted by atmlady on January 30, 2008, at 20:42:47
Wow, you certainly seem to have hit the jackpot lately!!! How much Ixel are you taking now?
I don't think I could handle all of that NE - my heart starts racing with the tiniest amount. But I'm wondering if a small amount might do me some good...
Posted by atmlady on January 31, 2008, at 6:59:43
In reply to Re: Ixel Musings » atmlady, posted by clipper40 on January 30, 2008, at 22:35:59
Hwy, Clipper - I take 2 of the 50mg caplets, but they make 25mg caplets too. They feel squishy, like powder is inside, so you might be able to go even lower if you break the caps .....
Posted by clipper40 on January 31, 2008, at 12:30:29
In reply to Re: Ixel Musings » clipper40, posted by atmlady on January 31, 2008, at 6:59:43
Thanks again. Please continue to update us on how you do with just the Ixel. I'm very interested in what each has contributed to your current wellness.
I think I said this before, but it's so nice to hear success stories.BTW, in 2-3 weeks I'll be trying the Trivastal myself. Wish me luck. No, on second thought, wish me motivation!
Posted by elanor roosevelt on February 1, 2008, at 0:11:23
In reply to Re: Ixel Musings » atmlady, posted by clipper40 on January 31, 2008, at 12:30:29
atm lady
i understand that lexapro was very good for you for a whilelexapro gave me an upbeat me for a while
i am already on trivastal 50x2, thinking about upping it. the pleasure/joy increase is reaching a plateau
maybe even going downhill
i ordered ixelhope it works as well for me as it seems to be for you
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