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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Phillipa on February 14, 2021, at 9:26:04
In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by alexandra_k on February 14, 2021, at 5:12:55
Yes that is correct. Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on February 14, 2021, at 9:30:10
In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by Lamdage22 on February 14, 2021, at 5:19:29
Yes there are many with newer ones that seem to appear daily. It's said that at least 2 years but this is the new normal. Masks need to continue to be worn , social distancing, and hand washing. Those that are vaccinated can still get Covid but milder cases and it's said they can become the asymptomatic carriers. So the masks will protect others. Phillipa
Posted by Lamdage22 on February 14, 2021, at 9:47:37
In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? » Lamdage22, posted by Phillipa on February 14, 2021, at 9:30:10
It sounds like normalcy is not anywhere in reach.
Posted by Phillipa on February 14, 2021, at 10:42:41
In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by Lamdage22 on February 14, 2021, at 9:47:37
I know frightening. Phillipa
Posted by alexandra_k on February 14, 2021, at 12:10:46
In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? » alexandra_k, posted by Phillipa on February 14, 2021, at 9:24:30
Right. Appointment with follow-up booked. It seems like the health system is broadly functional for you :)
I'm not sure we could pull that off, here. People are often lost to follow-up, here. I think, in some sense, we thought it was a worthy goal. The savings that could be made if only the people would give up this silly notion of having access to medical treatment.
From a psychological and also financial point of view there are people who are very invested in vaccines and vaccine development.
Apparently (I think I read this in Nature -- but I'm not sure)... The newer technology vaccines (the mrna ones) were really expensive to develop because of all the basic science level research that needed to go into developing them. And then the stuff for manufacturing. The stuff to keep them cold (maybe they need to be kept cold).
We might wonder... The cost of them... Are they worth it? What was wrong with the old way of doing things?
1) They are rolling out the mrna ones first... I guess it's a way of getting to do a large scale, co-ordinated, experimental trial to really get a handle on things like amount per dose, number of doses, spacing of doses...
2) The hope is that the research / investment in mrna vaccines will pay off because the benefits are:
2a) It is easier to change the 'instructions' in the vaccine. For example, present vaccines they can only choose a couple variants of influenza each year. They believe with the mrna vaccines they will be able to vaccinate against many many variants and also update the vaccines faster. To beat the evolution of influenza in the wild. That's a goal I do believe.
So they go on and on and on about how we are seeing new strains of Covid emerge...
And how our economies and lives are still in danger...
To justify the expense and experimentation that the world is currently undergoing with respect to mrna vaccine development.
I think *part of this* is going on. And a lot else, besides...
Posted by alexandra_k on February 14, 2021, at 12:28:45
In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by Lamdage22 on February 14, 2021, at 9:47:37
> It sounds like normalcy is not anywhere in reach.
sigh. i think there are definately aspects of 'new normal' about it.
i think most people are saying that some things are better now?
but people are missing some aspects...
we care about Covid because we've been given this story (and been presented with evidnence) of people (young seemingly healthy people) dying of Covid.
but there are other viruses, too... herpes viruses and the like... and these other viruses infect people and lie dormant in wait... and then kill them years later. cancers or whatever.
so... i think there is an element of people (unspecified) hoping that some of the hygeine messages are part of 'new normal'. hand washing and maybe we've learned to hold in our sneezes with wearing face masks...
lock-downs...
yeah. i don't know.
i think governments are trying to change economies...
it isn't sustainable a lot of what was going on in the world with migrant workers and the like. swarms of migrants like locusts in search of a better life... not finding the better lives they were seeking AND ruining things for us all. the situation -- not the migrants. the fact the people were forced to be migrants.
the new zealand government is required to allow citizens re-entry. the truth of it. the government doesn't want them here. we say 'brain drain' and 'bright flight'. but the truth of it is that the leaders here / the government here bullied them away / made things not good for them here so they set off for a better life...
but things got sh*tt**r and sh*tt**r and sh*tt**r here because the people fled instead of holding the people here to account. the people who come back see how things have de-evolved here... and if they are forced to stay here they are forced to help things progress here.
forced.
that's the kiwi way.
forced.
only treat the involuntary. everything must be done by force.
except the Covid vaccine roll-out of course. that isn't expediated under a state of emergency. there is no emergency justification for experimenting on the new zealand people. the people aren't being told that the vaccines are experimental. the people are being told that this is how the government always or typically or normally makes it's decisions about approvals. the vaccines were approved here under the normal or regular rules and not special dispensations because of a state of emergency.
after i said that... we got put back into lockdown and they are trying to rush getting the vaccine to the detention facility frontline health workers. quickly quickly quickly before someone seeks an injunction to stop them, i suppose.
because of the way teh government chooses to go about it's business... i don't trust them. i think it is likely our government quite particularly attempted (maybe even succeeded) in trading away the health of its people.
i wouldn't be surprised if they give half the people saline... or gave half the people their vaccine doses mixed with expired anasthetic... just to see what would happen. because there's no emergency here. just to see what would happen. there's no excuse.
where are the informed consent forms?
Posted by Phillipa on February 14, 2021, at 17:26:11
In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by alexandra_k on February 14, 2021, at 12:28:45
Required here to sign an online consent form which states what you are receiving is an emergency approved vaccine. It's your choice if you want to sign and receive the vaccine as it's technically still experimental without FDA approval. I had read the New Zealand had closed borders early on and the covid was non-existent there? Has Covid again returned to New Zealand? Phillipa
Posted by Lamdage22 on February 15, 2021, at 0:30:02
In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? » alexandra_k, posted by Phillipa on February 14, 2021, at 17:26:11
Our media are creating a constant panic. Is it the same in NZ and USA?
Posted by Phillipa on February 15, 2021, at 9:01:14
In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by Lamdage22 on February 15, 2021, at 0:30:02
Yes it is and I let myself get sucked into the panic. Why because I do not trust these vaccines. Phillipa
Posted by Lamdage22 on February 15, 2021, at 9:05:37
In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? » Lamdage22, posted by Phillipa on February 15, 2021, at 9:01:14
Limiting my exposure to the news helps me. If watched them every day, Id be a mess!
Posted by Phillipa on February 15, 2021, at 9:27:35
In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by Lamdage22 on February 15, 2021, at 9:05:37
The pressure here is get a vaccine into every arm you can. And most neighbors have had their vaccines already. Older people like myself. So do you feel they will work? Phillipa
Posted by Lamdage22 on February 15, 2021, at 9:31:42
In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? » Lamdage22, posted by Phillipa on February 15, 2021, at 9:27:35
I only know what the news say. Do you have any physical ailments?
Posted by Phillipa on February 15, 2021, at 10:26:44
In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by Lamdage22 on February 15, 2021, at 9:31:42
Thyroid and osteo arthritis and sever anxiety. Phillipa
Posted by alexandra_k on February 15, 2021, at 22:19:45
In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? » alexandra_k, posted by Phillipa on February 14, 2021, at 17:26:11
> Required here to sign an online consent form which states what you are receiving is an emergency approved vaccine. It's your choice if you want to sign and receive the vaccine as it's technically still experimental without FDA approval.
I see. This is the Pfizer one -- or Moderna?
New Zealand had first doses of Pfizer arrive yesterday. We have only had a few (if any) cases of transmission in the community over the last year. So we are not receiving 'emergency approved vaccine'. We are receiving a medication that, our government assures us, has been subjected to the same scruity and standard of evidence as every other medication approved for use in new zealand.
that shows the world that we do not have local capacity to assess safety or efficacy or anything at all in medications. Pharmac (the government organisation that does that for the purpose of saying what medications are approved for use in new zealand and what medications are authorised for prescription in government hospitals etc)... Say they have already received all the information they need / desire to make a regular decision about the safety and efficacy of Pfizer vaccine that is to be administered to the new zealand people.
it shows that the new zealand government was willing to trade away the health of its people
(instead of asking for help becuase it doesn't know how to do it and it won't allow the local people with the capacity to particpate or contribute towards a solution).
> I had read the New Zealand had closed borders early on and the covid was non-existent there? Has Covid again returned to New Zealand? Phillipa
we can't prevent new zealand citizens from returning from overseas because they might become stateless. no country will allow that. what we choose to do, instead, is offer places in the quarantine facilities to tourists as much as possible. wealthy americans. you get the idea.
it is coming in the borders constantly and people test positive in quarantine -- but we have managed to contain it. occasionally someone associated with border control tests positive and they pass it to individuals they share a household with. but that has been stamped out at that level. there hasn't been any community transmission.
auckland is currently in the middle of a 3 day lockdown becuase someone who works in association with the border tested positive and so did her daughter. only... the genetic variant wasn't related to any of the known cases in the facility so... where did it come from?
second case of that.
so the USA is helping us get to saliva testing so we can get more tests done... so we will find more cases... so we will worry less about the origins of the new attacks. i guess. something like that.
the lock-down co-incided with vaccine arrival. i suspect it's a case of telling people to stay away from the psychopath front line frenzy.
the media here likes to keep people afraid because they are paid by business and when people are afraid they panic buy. if people are afraid of a lockdown we get all this guff about how people positive must stockpile toilet paper pronto. best advertising racket ever.
you are hesitant, Phillipa?? yeah...
i think maybe i would be, too. but rationally i think they most likely are safe, yeah.
Posted by Phillipa on February 15, 2021, at 23:00:40
In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by alexandra_k on February 15, 2021, at 22:19:45
Hi Alex, both vaccines Pfizer & Moderna you sign consent so you can't attempt to sue is my guess if it turns out that it causes you immune system to over react and attack your own body organs and that produces for one thing a cytokine storm. As for why New Zealand needs to vaccinate I would guess it's to prevent an endemic. I googled New Zealand and Covid last night and saw the lockdown was for only three days. Just that one family and didn't the Mother they found out work doing laundry new the airlines or something like that. I still have my doubts on the vaccine. I was on some threads discussions on the vaccines with those that live in my area and one man was very knowledgeable . He's not getting one he said till Sept. Also Johnson & Johnson one should be released here soon. And that one is only 1 shot. Might wait for that one. Phillipa
Posted by alexandra_k on February 17, 2021, at 18:48:14
In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? » alexandra_k, posted by Phillipa on February 15, 2021, at 23:00:40
> Hi Alex, both vaccines Pfizer & Moderna you sign consent so you can't attempt to sue is my guess if it turns out that it causes you immune system to over react and attack your own body organs and that produces for one thing a cytokine storm.
You sign consent because it is a fundamental human right that you not be subject to medical procedures or medical experimentation without your consent. You have the right to learn of the pros and cons (strengths and weaknesses) and stage of development of the procedures that you may or may not consent to have. You have the right to make an informed decision about what is best for you and your place / role / position / situation / contribution etc etc in and to your community.
The people who give you information (or who give you false information) or who give you mis-information... Doctors... Governments... Are accountable (should be accountable) for the lies they tell so that it is more costly for them to lie and the psychopaths are incentivised to tell the truth in the only way they can understand it.
US citizens are being told the vaccines are being approved for use in experimental stages because of the pandemic. So the citizens know they are participating in medical trials.
NZ citizens are being told the vaccines are approved not for use under emergency dispensation... But under regular or normal dispensation.
That is to say the NZ government doesn't appreciate the difference between medical treatment and participating in a medical trial. That is because Pharmac regularly, reliably, repeatedly, chooses the cheapest option. Which is an 'experimental' 'generic'. I think is the idea. Where they see how low they can go with manufacturing conditions (etc etc etc) and still have... Uh... Some good effect? Maybe?
Something like that.
Is the best I can figure on the basis of the information that is available to me (and on the basis of the information that is not made available by Pharmac).
> As for why New Zealand needs to vaccinate I would guess it's to prevent an endemic.
I think you mean 'epidemic'. Or maybe not. Lol. THe case we had appears endemic, indeed. NO link to any previously known case in NZ!
Yes. We are back to lower level now (no events over 100 people). That's an issue for Universities because it's orientation weeks, now, for residential halls. Student events where they see how drunk they can get them all and how many can be bullied into being sexually abused and the like...
It is your right to wait if you choose.
The evidence on how much vaccination prevents a person becoming a vector (transmitting it to others while being themselves immune) is unclear. I mean to say...
Preventing epidemic / community transmission was NOT the reason NZ rolled out the first lot of vaccine. That is because the best evidence available to the NZ government was the South African Evidence about vaccine NOT preventing transmission. So on the basis of that evidence... The NZ government was thinking it would like to help community transmission?
(The reality is that the government is slow to respond to the evidence and it hadn't assimilated that yet).
Since then better evidence (larger sample size) has emerged that vaccination DOES help prevent people passing it on.
But the government didn't know that when it made it's decision. So it wasn't the reason for the decision.
The NZ governmetn didn't think it was an issue at all about the invasiveness of the swab compared to saliva tests. Didn't feature in their decision making at all. Just don't care that something is invasive. Will decrease uptake. Will save costs!! Just stay home well, well, well.
I think that if you choose not to get vaccinated (yet) then it would be very very sensible to be careful and wear masks etc.
They are advising that, anyway.
But there's something to believing yourself / knowing yourself to be more vulnerable precisely because you haven't been vaccinated... That could well mean you are less likely to transmit it to others or catch it yourself as a result of that.
Posted by Phillipa on February 17, 2021, at 23:20:22
In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by alexandra_k on February 17, 2021, at 18:48:14
Even vaccinated you can be an asymptomatic carrier hence the continued wearing of masks and social distancing. Hoping the Johnson & Johnson vaccine is available around the beginning of March. Works with a different mechanism so won't trigger our immune system. Goes and enter a spike I believe of the virus? Phillipa
Posted by undopaminergic on February 18, 2021, at 6:12:08
In reply to Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by Phillipa on February 1, 2021, at 9:25:09
> Anyone received one of the available Covid vaccines. Please share experience both good and bad. And which vaccine did you receive? Or did you decide not to get one and if so why? And finally who has had Covid? Thanks Phillipa
>I received the Astra-Zeneca version of COVID vaccine within the most recent half hour. It scarcely hurt at all.
Am I the first here?
How does the Astra-Zeneca compare to other vaccines?
They said there will be another shot in 12 weeks.
-undopaminergic
Posted by Lamdage22 on February 18, 2021, at 7:18:27
In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by undopaminergic on February 18, 2021, at 6:12:08
I hear it provides 70% of protection, on the upside it seems to give that protection to those around you as well possibly unlike Pfizer and Moderna.
Posted by Phillipa on February 18, 2021, at 9:02:53
In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by undopaminergic on February 18, 2021, at 6:12:08
Hi Yes you are the first on this thread to receive the Astra Zeneca vaccine. You must be in Europe correct? What type of information have you been given about the vaccine? And what is the criteria for receiving the vaccine. Age like here, a medical worker?, pre-existing conditions. Would love to hear more on your vaccine. 12 weeks is quite a while between doses also. Thanks Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on February 18, 2021, at 9:04:40
In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by Lamdage22 on February 18, 2021, at 7:18:27
Lamadge I did not know this about Astra Zeneca. So is it a better vaccine? What is the mechanism of action? Thanks Phillipa
Posted by undopaminergic on February 18, 2021, at 9:07:25
In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by Lamdage22 on February 18, 2021, at 7:18:27
> ... it seems to give that protection to those around you as well possibly unlike Pfizer and Moderna.
>I think maybe that is the reasoning behind choosing this variant. It is in a hospital setting and they really don't want the virus to get a foothold here, as it could spread like a wildfire.
-undopaminergic
Posted by undopaminergic on February 18, 2021, at 9:16:43
In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? » undopaminergic, posted by Phillipa on February 18, 2021, at 9:02:53
> Hi Yes you are the first on this thread to receive the Astra Zeneca vaccine. You must be in Europe correct?
>Yes, Nordic.
> What type of information have you been given about the vaccine?
It could case injection site symptoms like muscle pain, and it could cause a temperature.
> And what is the criteria for receiving the vaccine. Age like here, a medical worker?, pre-existing conditions.
>None of those would seem to apply. I'm just 43. No diabetes or anything like that, just some mental symptoms, of which I feel only the apathy and cognitive impairment are relevant to my wellbeing and functioning.
> Would love to hear more on your vaccine.
I don't think I have anything more to say. I will try to report if I notice anything new.
> 12 weeks is quite a while between doses also. Thanks Phillipa
Yes, that occurred to me too.
-undopaminergic
Posted by Phillipa on February 18, 2021, at 9:27:30
In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? » Phillipa, posted by undopaminergic on February 18, 2021, at 9:16:43
Thanks I think I will google the vaccine and see if find anything else. Isn't this the vaccine that is being used in multiple countries overseas? Phillipa
Posted by Lamdage22 on February 18, 2021, at 9:43:55
In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? » Lamdage22, posted by Phillipa on February 18, 2021, at 9:04:40
I dont know
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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