![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 15 to 39 of 146. Go back in thread:
Posted by Maxime on October 14, 2010, at 21:27:57
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds, posted by bleauberry on October 14, 2010, at 4:58:25
Thanks B. If the meds were really helping me I would be able to put up with the side effects because it's trade off. Of course I want my mood to better and I would willing to endure certain side effects.
The good thing about the Parnate is that since it comes in 10 mg pills I can decrease it very slowly.
Something is making me very and ugly and it's not food!
Do you think my metabolism would improve once I am off the meds?
Posted by Maxime on October 14, 2010, at 21:34:09
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » Maxime, posted by Jay_Clockwork_Angels on October 14, 2010, at 11:23:35
Really? I didn't know that Nortrip cause cognitive problems! I thought I was just getting dumb. I teach computer courses to seniors and some my words will get mixed up or I lose my tain of thought which isn't like me at all. It's really embarrassing because it feel like minutes are going by until I find the the right word or term, I know it's only a couple of seconds, it feels much longer than that!
Posted by Maxime on October 14, 2010, at 21:36:34
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds, posted by creepy on October 14, 2010, at 12:50:28
Yes, I have heard that about Metformin. I should research is closely.
I have used Topomax before and both times I went psychotic and I ended up in the hospital. No more Topomax for me.
Posted by Maxime on October 14, 2010, at 21:42:07
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds, posted by ed_uk2010 on October 14, 2010, at 13:45:05
> Maxie,
>
> Why did you decide to start by tapering Parnate rather than nortriptyline?
>
> I know you are very concerned about your weight gain so I think it makes sense to keep the Parnate for now and taper nortriptyline. Although nortriptyline may be providing some benefit, I suspect that these are strongly counteracted by its potential to increase your weight.
>
>I can't remember my logic behind why I choose Parnate. I can't remember much these days!
Ed, do meds mess your metabolism? When I saw my endo. last time she was really concerned about my weight. I told her that I don't eat much and she responded I that I am eating enough to be fat (that really hurt) I know that restricting can my metabolism to slow down ... but what about meds? I guess it could also be the Nozinan that I use to help me sleep.
I appreciate your help. xxx
Posted by Phillipa on October 14, 2010, at 21:51:47
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » ed_uk2010, posted by Maxime on October 14, 2010, at 21:42:07
Maxie sure nortriptaline can cause weight gain. But also thyroid causes this and not trying to be mean or hurtful but at over 40 some younger women do start menopause and weight goes up. Get hormone levels checked. All are interconnected. You know my job made me happy cause until working I grew up with a Mother who blamed me for her illness and death. And when I had my kids I realized that carrying me up stairs couldn't have made her ill. So my self esteem went up and continued to climb with nursing and getting good grades. Actually I feel I was depressed when young. Not now though as I've achieved and traveled accomplished all and more than I ever dreamed I could. These are my thoughts only. Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on October 14, 2010, at 22:17:29
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds, posted by Phillipa on October 14, 2010, at 21:51:47
Phillipa, I have my thyroid levels checked every six months. Two months ago they were fine ( a little on the hyper side but that is where I feel best and the endo is fine with keeping me there).
I thought I was entering menopause and my GP did some blood work and she said that I have not started menopause. Also, I not talking about 10-15 pounds. It is about 65 pounds which on my short stature is very FAT, UGLY and NOTICEABLE. And what is up with the acne? UGH. I now have a medicated cream to use.
Posted by huxley on October 14, 2010, at 22:33:33
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » ed_uk2010, posted by Maxime on October 14, 2010, at 21:42:07
All I know is that the lower I go on my medications the better I feel.
That is after I go through a period of hell.
That period of hell is medication withdrawal not my 'original symptoms returning'.
If you are going to do it be careful. I know we are all different, for me it is so easy to spin out of control so I go very very slowly so I can reverse any change I made.
Best of luck with whatever you decide to do.
Posted by huxley on October 14, 2010, at 22:50:44
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » bleauberry, posted by SLS on October 14, 2010, at 5:31:56
> > I think the whole thing sounds reasonable to me.
>
> Why?
>
> Do you have some insight into Maxime's condition and history to be able to come to this conclusion?
>
> > I think it needs to be done slowly and carefully. Very tiny changes while dropping dosage. Personally I would probably whittle down the doses of the other meds too in tiny amounts at the same time.
>
> Why?
>
> What should Maxime do should she relapse while performing a slow taper of her medications?
>
> > Maybe it's just me, but I see no logical or justifiable reason to stay on meds that have done little or nothing to improve quality of life.
>
> I would agree with this, but I think you should ask questions of Maxime regarding her treatment history before you suggest what is the right thing for her to do.
>
> > It boggles my mind, but probably countless people do it.
>
> How are you feeling today? Not too bad? Perhaps you don't share the same desperation as others.
>
> > Feeling worsened symptoms while decreasing the dosages will probably happen, and each time it will pass in a few days to a week or two.
>
> According to whom?
>
> > It's adjustment stuff happening. Many people erroneously think "oh, that means the med was doing something good after all, and I get worse without it"....wrong. It's called withdrawals and readjustments. The true baseline will not be evident for a month to three months after a final dose. Everything up until that time is related to readjustment.
>
> Perhaps you should clarify how you would distinguish between withdrawal rebound depression and relapse before suggesting to someone that they commit to continuing to taper medications gradually despite feeling worse.
>
> > Doxycycline has to be tried. No ifs, and, or buts, about it.
>
> Why doxycycline? What might its mechanism of action be?
>
> > Again logic comes into play....if a boatload of psych meds have not done the trick, then something else is going on.
>
> It does not follow from logic given your supposition that any one drug be indicated over another. Why not try rectal suppositories of bisacodyl? Afterall, antidepressants don't work.
>
>I for one have been very grateful for Blueberries posts and experiences with coming of meds and she has been far more help than any dr or psyciatrist who knows my full history of meds and my condition.
Posted by Phillipa on October 14, 2010, at 23:38:10
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » Phillipa, posted by Maxime on October 14, 2010, at 22:17:29
Mine was also recently checked then hormone doseage changed and that changes the thyroid levels according to both endo and hormone doc. So I'm thinking I need to get mine rechecked. Maxie I'd freak out literally if I gained all that weight. I honestly don't know what to say about that. And I know food with some isn't the reason. I'm sorry. Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on October 14, 2010, at 23:45:18
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds, posted by huxley on October 14, 2010, at 22:50:44
Huxley the only thing I'll comment about doxy or any antibiotics is my infection control specialist feels the Biaxin XL I took for chronic lymes for two years three months on and three off is responsible for me losing all taste and smell 7 years ago. It's horrible to not taste and smell. I recently had another MRI of brain and sinuses and the doc was sad to confer I will never smell a rose or taste food again. So be careful with antibiotics. They are very powerful and the more you take them the more med resistant bugs are developing first it was MRSA now worse things. Just be careful. Explore all with different specialists. I strongly feel the mind, body organs, endrocrine systems tie in very closely and all if working correctly are playing harmoniously. Phillipa
Posted by SLS on October 15, 2010, at 5:10:38
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » creepy, posted by Maxime on October 14, 2010, at 21:36:34
> Yes, I have heard that about Metformin. I should research is closely.
>
> I have used Topomax before and both times I went psychotic and I ended up in the hospital. No more Topomax for me.That's interesting. Topamax exerted a mild antidepressant effect on me. I wonder how often manic reactions to Topamax occur.
I have witnessed Topamax effectively treat a dysphoric mixed-state bipolar.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on October 15, 2010, at 5:15:37
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds, posted by huxley on October 14, 2010, at 22:50:44
> > > I think the whole thing sounds reasonable to me.
> >
> > Why?
> >
> > Do you have some insight into Maxime's condition and history to be able to come to this conclusion?
> >
> > > I think it needs to be done slowly and carefully. Very tiny changes while dropping dosage. Personally I would probably whittle down the doses of the other meds too in tiny amounts at the same time.
> >
> > Why?
> >
> > What should Maxime do should she relapse while performing a slow taper of her medications?
> >
> > > Maybe it's just me, but I see no logical or justifiable reason to stay on meds that have done little or nothing to improve quality of life.
> >
> > I would agree with this, but I think you should ask questions of Maxime regarding her treatment history before you suggest what is the right thing for her to do.
> >
> > > It boggles my mind, but probably countless people do it.
> >
> > How are you feeling today? Not too bad? Perhaps you don't share the same desperation as others.
> >
> > > Feeling worsened symptoms while decreasing the dosages will probably happen, and each time it will pass in a few days to a week or two.
> >
> > According to whom?
> >
> > > It's adjustment stuff happening. Many people erroneously think "oh, that means the med was doing something good after all, and I get worse without it"....wrong. It's called withdrawals and readjustments. The true baseline will not be evident for a month to three months after a final dose. Everything up until that time is related to readjustment.
> >
> > Perhaps you should clarify how you would distinguish between withdrawal rebound depression and relapse before suggesting to someone that they commit to continuing to taper medications gradually despite feeling worse.
> >
> > > Doxycycline has to be tried. No ifs, and, or buts, about it.
> >
> > Why doxycycline? What might its mechanism of action be?
> >
> > > Again logic comes into play....if a boatload of psych meds have not done the trick, then something else is going on.
> >
> > It does not follow from logic given your supposition that any one drug be indicated over another. Why not try rectal suppositories of bisacodyl? Afterall, antidepressants don't work.
> >
> >
>
> I for one have been very grateful for Blueberries posts and experiences with coming of meds and she has been far more help than any dr or psyciatrist who knows my full history of meds and my condition.In what ways has the advice you received from Bleuberry brought about your remission? How did you change your treatment because of Bleuberry's advice? I would be grateful to learn how and what.
- Scott
Posted by floatingbridge on October 15, 2010, at 12:36:19
In reply to Thinking of coming off meds, posted by Maxime on October 13, 2010, at 22:32:42
Maxime,
My first reaction is no! Don't!
Gaining 65 pounds would concern any of us, even those of us w/o an ED. And the acne, besides being unpleasant, can indicate hormone issues.
What does your endo think about all
this? I forgot if you mentioned your age, but is perimenopause a factor at all? (I think that's fsh level?)This might sound catty, but this friend you mention, did she know how badly you felt a year ago? I remember you writing back then. Now you have a job you enjoy and get out daily. You have some space from home issues. What she said about eating enough food to make you fat hurt me! That seems very unsupportive at least. She could have expressed concern over your health in general and not looks.
Maxie, maybe some change in meds is good. Really, what do I know? Meds change us eventually, time changes us, depression treated or not, behaviors, all change us. And the insult with meds is that they change on us as we age.
Getting off meds might not give you the results you want. It's a lovely idea that works for some--. Please Maxie, don't unless you have a real solid plan with your doctor.
Posted by SLS on October 15, 2010, at 12:57:02
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » Maxime, posted by floatingbridge on October 15, 2010, at 12:36:19
> Please Maxie, don't unless you have a real solid plan with your doctor.
I agree.
Maxime: I know that quite a few drugs give you hyperprolactinemia. When I was on desipramine, I gained no weight at all. Have you tried desipramine? -> Never mind. I searched the archives and see that you had lactation as a reaction to desipramine in 2005.
- Scott
Posted by morgan miller on October 15, 2010, at 13:31:19
In reply to Thinking of coming off meds, posted by Maxime on October 13, 2010, at 22:32:42
Maxime, I apologize for basically saying that you are the cause of your appearance and problems and not your medications. I realize now that I should have been a little more sensitive and thoughtful in my post. I do think a few of your medications could be causing some problems and it is a good idea to take as few medications as possible, as long as the ones you are on are helping you and keeping you safe.
I still stand by some of the things I said regarding long term improvement and achieving true happiness.
Good luck with the changes you make!
Morgan
Posted by bleauberry on October 15, 2010, at 17:23:46
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » bleauberry, posted by SLS on October 14, 2010, at 5:31:56
> > I think the whole thing sounds reasonable to me.
>
> Why?Why not?
>
> Do you have some insight into Maxime's condition and history to be able to come to this conclusion?Yes.
>
> > I think it needs to be done slowly and carefully. Very tiny changes while dropping dosage. Personally I would probably whittle down the doses of the other meds too in tiny amounts at the same time.
>
> Why?Because they are either not doing anything and/or compounding the underlying problem.
>
> What should Maxime do should she relapse while performing a slow taper of her medications?There can't be a relapse because the current condition is already miserable.
>
> > Maybe it's just me, but I see no logical or justifiable reason to stay on meds that have done little or nothing to improve quality of life.
>
> I would agree with this, but I think you should ask questions of Maxime regarding her treatment history before you suggest what is the right thing for her to do.Been following this one a long time.
>
> > It boggles my mind, but probably countless people do it.
>
> How are you feeling today? Not too bad? Perhaps you don't share the same desperation as others.Failed ECT, a backpack of failed meds, 15 year chronic something, two threats of suicide and a ride handcuffed in the ambulance falls in the category of desperation, especially when trying to fake some sort of sign of life while on the job. Today was just another day in that paradise.
>
> > Feeling worsened symptoms while decreasing the dosages will probably happen, and each time it will pass in a few days to a week or two.
>
> According to whom?Me.
>
> > It's adjustment stuff happening. Many people erroneously think "oh, that means the med was doing something good after all, and I get worse without it"....wrong. It's called withdrawals and readjustments. The true baseline will not be evident for a month to three months after a final dose. Everything up until that time is related to readjustment.
>
> Perhaps you should clarify how you would distinguish between withdrawal rebound depression and relapse before suggesting to someone that they commit to continuing to taper medications gradually despite feeling worse.When you're already there before even attempting a taper, what difference does it make? Gotta move forward with a logical plan of action that doesn't repeat previous failures.
>
> > Doxycycline has to be tried. No ifs, and, or buts, about it.
>
> Why doxycycline? What might its mechanism of action be?It covers a lot of depression causing bases missed by everything else tried thus far. Wide spectrum, relatively safe, very common, intracellular. Worst case scenario....lose appetite and lose some weight. Best case scenario....feel better than in a very long time. Excellent diagnostic tool to rule in or rule out a wide variety of medical mysteries we can't see that all have one thing in common....difficult depression. The other symptoms are highly indicative of this approach.
>
> > Again logic comes into play....if a boatload of psych meds have not done the trick, then something else is going on.
>
> It does not follow from logic given your supposition that any one drug be indicated over another. Why not try rectal suppositories of bisacodyl? Afterall, antidepressants don't work.I don't know anything about rectal suppositories or bisacody? What is that? Antidepressants do work. From my earlier days I can attest to that. But when they don't, that's when the rules of the game change. Something else is going on. As the game changes, the player refusing to adjust will wonder why he/she continually loses over and over.
>
>One definition of insanity is to keep repeating behaviors that keep failing....as in staying on certain meds despite continued deep depression and failure, and a host of other worrisome symptoms those meds are either not addressing or actually causing.
One thing that bothers me about patients piling med on top of med with crossed fingers, when the initial two or so really weren't doing much positive, is that a deep hole is dug that is extremely hard to get out of. Been there done that, several times That's why a taper in very tiny steps. And a fresh look at....what causes depression that does not respond to the most potent psych meds available? The answer to that question might sound like rocket science, but it is really pretty simple. Just completely foreign and bizarre to anyone who has only had experience within the confined limited environment of the four walls of psychiatrist's office.
But wait a minute. Parnate and Nortriptyline has got to be one of the big boy most potent depression busters out there, at least within psychobabble discussions, right? Remember the STAR*D study. Neither Parnate nor Nortriptyline did much better than anything else. Miracle meds for some, miserable failures for others, with no way to predict. With the result at hand with this patient, time to move on. Preferably with wider spectrum glasses that do not repeat previous assumptions.
As you know, Scott, I am more of a real-world guy than a clinical guy. I don't trust the clinical researchers and psychiatrists very much. Why? Because if they had the skill or merit we all pretend they do, we would all be in better shape than we are. They have no more of a clue as to what to do than you or me. We pay them $200 to make their best guess, and yet there is no accountability when we are left in the same misery we started with. No refund. the best the scientific researchers can do is give us chemicals that may or may not do anything positive, with a success rate modestly better than a spoonful of honey. Worse yet, severely compounding the problem, they do nearly zero "meaningful" diagnostic work and severely limit the types of meds to try. If it aint in the psych box, it can't cure depression....wrong wrong wrong.
Real world: When neurotransmitter manipulators of all kinds fail in a patient, that itself is highly diagnostic and provides direction for treatment.
Real world: Something relatively tame and simple like prozac plus ritalin could be a miracle. Not those specifically, but maybe, but back to basics....simpler is often better with a lot of things in life.
Real world: Try vicodin two days, hydrocodone 2 days, codeine 2 days just to see what happens. Not as a cure, but as a diagnostic tool to focus strategies. If treatment is going to be a guess, at least let's have an educated guess with definite repeatable clues pointing the way. Rule it in, rule it out, either way it is a positive.
Real world: A month on Doxy just to see what happens. It will tell a story that covers a wide area. Rule it in, rule it out, either way is positive. Diflucan worth a look too.
Just a few perfectly legitimate directions to go. But, a taper off of failed meds causing bizarre problems has to come first.
Posted by Maxime on October 15, 2010, at 18:54:23
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » Maxime, posted by floatingbridge on October 15, 2010, at 12:36:19
> Maxime,
>
> My first reaction is no! Don't!
>
> Gaining 65 pounds would concern any of us, even those of us w/o an ED. And the acne, besides being unpleasant, can indicate hormone issues.
>
> What does your endo think about all
> this? I forgot if you mentioned your age, but is perimenopause a factor at all? (I think that's fsh level?)
>
> This might sound catty, but this friend you mention, did she know how badly you felt a year ago? I remember you writing back then. Now you have a job you enjoy and get out daily. You have some space from home issues. What she said about eating enough food to make you fat hurt me! That seems very unsupportive at least. She could have expressed concern over your health in general and not looks.
>
> Maxie, maybe some change in meds is good. Really, what do I know? Meds change us eventually, time changes us, depression treated or not, behaviors, all change us. And the insult with meds is that they change on us as we age.
>
> Getting off meds might not give you the results you want. It's a lovely idea that works for some--. Please Maxie, don't unless you have a real solid plan with your doctor.Thanks FB for your advice. I was a mess in the fall when I wasn't on meds for 6 weeks. It was awful. But this time I would stay on the trileptal and adderall and get off my Parnate, Nortp. and clonazepam. Yes, my endo is the one who said that I was eating enough to make me fat. She said it again when I her a couple of weeks ago. I guess that is her personal style ... insult the patient. And sees much larger women than me so I don't even want to know what she says to them!
I don't want to on meds anymore not only because my weight, but because I am sure that I am much more stupid on them. Seriously. I mix up words and sentences up all the time and I feel like an idiot.
I won't do anything until I talk to my doctor about it. If he says no, then I won't do it. I haven't back from him yet.
Thanks for caring. *hugs*
Posted by morgan miller on October 15, 2010, at 19:17:41
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » floatingbridge, posted by Maxime on October 15, 2010, at 18:54:23
Chronic depression and it's detrimental accumulative effects could be causing you to feel "stupid" as much as medications could be. I don't hear much people complaining about cognitive side effects with drugs like Parnate, this doesn't mean it is not affecting your cognition.
Not all anti-depressants will negatively affect your metabolism and cognition. Some may improve your cognition, especially if your depression significantly improves on them.
It's sounding like you are on a path to not taking any medications. If so, this might be a bad idea. You may not be close to where you want to be, but you sound better than you were several months ago.
What is keeping you from going to individual or group therapy or both? At some point, we simply need to face our demons, or we may never have a chance at a good life.
Posted by Maxime on October 15, 2010, at 19:44:29
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds, posted by morgan miller on October 15, 2010, at 19:17:41
>
> What is keeping you from going to individual or group therapy or both? At some point, we simply need to face our demons, or we may never have a chance at a good life.
I need and want therapy, but I can't afford it. Certainly not now. I need someone with a slidding fee scale which is not easy to find.
Posted by morgan miller on October 15, 2010, at 21:03:32
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » morgan miller, posted by Maxime on October 15, 2010, at 19:44:29
Gotchya..Are you on disability? If so, I guess the insurance you are getting is not going to cover therapy. I think different states have differing benefits with regards to insurance. A friend of mine is on disability and just about everything is covered.
About meds, if you are able to enjoy working at all, I have to believe the medications are helping. I guess just try be careful about what medications you eliminate, at least until you think there is a better replacement out there.
Posted by floatingbridge on October 15, 2010, at 22:36:57
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » floatingbridge, posted by Maxime on October 15, 2010, at 18:54:23
> I don't want to on meds anymore not only because my weight, but because I
am sure that I am much more stupid on them. Seriously. I mix up words and sentences up all the time and I feel like an idiot.
>I hear you. Maybe it is time for a change. I recall that you can have med sensitivities and can destabilize fairly quickly. So go slow and middle of the road. I, too, feel unhappy and at times panicky about my med pile-on.
> I won't do anything until I talk to my doctor about it. If he says no, then I
won't do it. I haven't back from him yet.
>In the meantime, can you research some options? I don't know if you have time or patience for it--to present to your doctor. Will he *brainstorm* with you?
Maybe you said and I didn't get it. You don't want to be med-free but med-lite? And what would you like your lineup to be? What do your instincts say?> Thanks for caring. *hugs*
*hugs* back :)
Posted by Maxime on October 16, 2010, at 4:19:18
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » Maxime, posted by morgan miller on October 15, 2010, at 21:03:32
I am not on disability, I am working. And even when I was not working (the past 18 months), I wasn't on disability.
I'm in Canada so our health laws are somewhat similar from Province to Province. But Canada Health Care's system has never included the payment of psychologists because they are not medical doctors. However I can use my health card to see my psychiatrist.
Posted by 49er on October 16, 2010, at 5:13:23
In reply to Thinking of coming off meds, posted by Maxime on October 13, 2010, at 22:32:42
> A close friend of mine told me that I don't look like the person I was a year ago. I am very overweight and at the same time I look bloated(puffy face and hands. I have an eating disorder (ED NOS)and I restrict my food a lot.
>
> I can't blame the meds for everything ... but I can blame them for a lot.
>
> I'm going to slowly come off the Parnate. I will keep the Nortriptaline for a while so I don't crash and burn. Then I will slowly decrease the Nortrip. I will stay on the Trileptal to keep my mood "stable" -ha! What a joke! I will also stay on the Adderall XR.
>
> Of course I am going to ask my pdoc if it's okay to do this. Maybe he will give me tips on how to decrease the Parnate.
>
> I really hope that I am not creating a disaster. Do you think I am? I just don't want to be on all these meds. I want my old body back. I want to have all my cognitive functions working properly (of course one could argue that coming off the med will create cognitive problems)
>
> Does anyone have any thoughts on my plan of action? Maybe there is something I have not thought of yet.
>
> Thanks y'all! :)HI Maxime,
If you do decide to taper off of your meds, please do it very slowly, especially since you are multiple meds. I came of of 4 meds by mostly tapering at 10% of current dose every 3 to 6 weeks.
Tapering slowly doesn't guarantee you won't have withdrawal symptoms. But it is the difference between having some semblance of a quality of life and not having one.
Of course your mileage will vary but I think to be safe, tapering slowly is the way to go.
I would also be very careful about taking any supplements.
Withdrawal, even doing it slowly, will make your system very sensitive. One of biggest mistakes was taking too many of them.If you do decide to taper off of meds, you need to think about how you're going to handle the issues that caused you be put on meds in the first place. For example, when I start getting into what I feel is very negative self talk that isn't helpful, I simply remind myself that I don't want to go down that path.
Of course, it isn't that simple but I wanted to give you an idea of what I experienced.
By the way, even though I was considered normal weight when I on meds, I lost a few more pounds after I finished my taper. I think it gathered in my stomach and that is where it came off.
Feel free to babble mail me if you want to talk more about this. It is a big decision and not one to be entered into lightly.
One more thing - My psychiatrist, while cooperative with my taper, didn't support my getting off of meds. He didn't say anything directly but it was quite obvious.
I think what I am saying is I understand you wanting to consult him. But in the end, it has to be your decision.
If I had listened to mine, I would still be on meds and suffering from the horrific side effects that caused me to taper off of them.
Good luck.
49er
Posted by SLS on October 16, 2010, at 5:36:41
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds » floatingbridge, posted by Maxime on October 15, 2010, at 18:54:23
> > Maxime,
> >
> > My first reaction is no! Don't!
> >
> > Gaining 65 pounds would concern any of us, even those of us w/o an ED. And the acne, besides being unpleasant, can indicate hormone issues.
> >
> > What does your endo think about all
> > this? I forgot if you mentioned your age, but is perimenopause a factor at all? (I think that's fsh level?)
> >
> > This might sound catty, but this friend you mention, did she know how badly you felt a year ago? I remember you writing back then. Now you have a job you enjoy and get out daily. You have some space from home issues. What she said about eating enough food to make you fat hurt me! That seems very unsupportive at least. She could have expressed concern over your health in general and not looks.
> >
> > Maxie, maybe some change in meds is good. Really, what do I know? Meds change us eventually, time changes us, depression treated or not, behaviors, all change us. And the insult with meds is that they change on us as we age.
> >
> > Getting off meds might not give you the results you want. It's a lovely idea that works for some--. Please Maxie, don't unless you have a real solid plan with your doctor.
>
> Thanks FB for your advice. I was a mess in the fall when I wasn't on meds for 6 weeks. It was awful. But this time I would stay on the trileptal and adderall and get off my Parnate, Nortp. and clonazepam. Yes, my endo is the one who said that I was eating enough to make me fat. She said it again when I her a couple of weeks ago. I guess that is her personal style ... insult the patient. And sees much larger women than me so I don't even want to know what she says to them!
>
> I don't want to on meds anymore not only because my weight, but because I am sure that I am much more stupid on them. Seriously. I mix up words and sentences up all the time and I feel like an idiot.
>
> I won't do anything until I talk to my doctor about it. If he says no, then I won't do it. I haven't back from him yet.
>
> Thanks for caring. *hugs*I would suggest that you consider discontinuing one drug at a time, otherwise you will not know what drug(s) are contributing to the improved state that you find yourself in. Perhaps this would not be necessary if you lay down a plan that includes returning to previously effective dosages of both drugs immediately once you determine you have relapsed.
Stupid? Could be the drugs. Could be the illness progressing. Cognitive impairments due to depression tend to worsen as one ages and the illness is left untreated.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on October 16, 2010, at 5:43:36
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds, posted by morgan miller on October 15, 2010, at 19:17:41
> Chronic depression and it's detrimental accumulative effects could be causing you to feel "stupid" as much as medications could be. I don't hear much people complaining about cognitive side effects with drugs like Parnate, this doesn't mean it is not affecting your cognition.
>
> Not all anti-depressants will negatively affect your metabolism and cognition. Some may improve your cognition, especially if your depression significantly improves on them.
>
> It's sounding like you are on a path to not taking any medications. If so, this might be a bad idea. You may not be close to where you want to be, but you sound better than you were several months ago.
>
> What is keeping you from going to individual or group therapy or both? At some point, we simply need to face our demons, or we may never have a chance at a good life.I agree with Morgan. Perhaps your preoccupation with suicide is more intellectual than it is due to depressive affect. For you, it might be critical that you attend to this issue and others that may exist in your psyche through some psychotherapeutic milieu. In your case, I do not think that psychotherapy by itself will resolve major depressive disorder. Some sort of somatic treatment seems to be necessary for you. I could be wrong, of course.
- Scott
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