Posted by alexandra_k on February 10, 2005, at 4:04:05
In reply to Re: quick thought... » alexandra_k, posted by Gabbi-x-2 on February 9, 2005, at 23:50:33
> Reality is what can be communicated what can be percieved and what comprises thought.
What can be said, seen, and thought about. But is reality (as in the real world) those things - or is it whatever has a tendancy to produce in us those things?
Reality -> Perception -> Thought -> Speech (communication) / Other behaviour
(though we can leave out the middlemen for reflexes / reactions...)>I think by definition, fantasy is considered to exist solely in the mind, but that same thing may not exist as fantasy to another.
Yes. But the same goes for *perceptions* and *thoughts* and *ideas*. They exist (in one sense) solely in the mind - in the sense that I may have different perceptions, thoughts, and ideas from you.
> It's almost comical to me that anyone who reads history cannot see that what was once haughtily dismissed as folklore or old wives tales has been found by empirical evidence to be true,Yes. Some of the claims were true. But others were false. Are you rating empirical evidence more hightly with respect to truth (by giving it the final word on truth)?
>There are many more spiritual and and fantastical concepts that science will still scoff at, however by looking at what they have mocked before who are we to say?
> Of course, I was talking about the exceptions, the fantasies the metaphysical or magical realism
> Some realities cannot be defined it doesn't make them not real.I am not sure what you mean...
There are 'levels' if you will of reality.
The following things are all real
But intuitively different neverthelesselectrons
tigers
nail files
the number seven
perceptions
thoughts
utterances
actions
> Exactly that, reality is often dependent on the observer.Sub-atomic reality, or atomic reality?
That is very Berkeley, you know.
'To be is to be perceived'.
If we close our eyes on the world... it really does disappear.> Often you could not prove to the believer that the beliefs are false.
Different kinds of beliefs require different kinds of evidence to cast doubt on them. There could be evidence that provides rational grounds to doubt.
>That's the reality of the believer, and science being skewered by it's own rules.
E.g.? That many different people should be able to observe the same phenomenon??
If the 'final science' (or a completed version of science) provides the verdict judging which of an indefinately long list of statements about reality is true - then that is the nature of reality.
Reality is *Inter-subjective*.
The mid point between being mind independent
And dependent.
A meeting point of both...Philosophers develop scientific methods. Once the methods are sufficiently worked out then people can practice from within those methods. (And disown themselves from the catch-all discipline of philosophy to establish a field with its own domain of investigation). Then the methods become subject to peer review. The scientific method is supposed to (as much as possible) provide us good reasons for accepting the legitimacy of experimental results.
>It is *one* extremely valuable realm of knowledge, the one society currently values above all others but hardly definitive, it doesn't exist in a vacuum and subject to corruption, prejudice and greed.
Hmm. Applied science is most corruptable (IMO) because there are practical gains to be made...
poster:alexandra_k
thread:455724
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20050205/msgs/455810.html