Posted by hello321 on October 6, 2015, at 16:53:01
In reply to Re: Shooters and Psychiatry, posted by SLS on October 6, 2015, at 9:35:32
> >
> > Scott, I find this confusing.
>
> It really isn't so confusing if you take the story at face value. In this scenario, Bartholomew does not have a predisposition to mental illness as a reaction to psychosocial stress #1. He is, what scientists call, "resilient".The guy grew up under very stressful circumstances. This is recognized to result in depression in some cases, particularly if someone isn't resilient to the stress. He became unable to deal with this stress in a healthy way and it had major effects on his thoughts and emotions. You see this because he grew up feeling inferior because of his situation and experiences. And he became withdrawn and began to behave erratically. You also see this because he eventually resorted to such a dangerous decision that could have obviously (and did) resulted in worsened circumstances. All of his reaction to the stress he experienced suggest he isn't all that resilient. I can only see someone like Bartholomew resorting to this either if they saw no way out of a terrible situation in life that they can't emotionally tolerate. Or if they just wanted/needed the money, recognized it could end badly, with death being a possibility, and figured death would still be better than continuing his life if he didn't succeed in his goal.... the guy is feeling so much emotional stress that he resorts to such an extreme decision. But I'm still expected to take at face value the idea of him being resilient to the kind of depression his life experiences could easily result in. He felt inferior to the people around him (sign of depression). Became withdrawn and began behaving erratically (more classic signs of depression) and basically ended up saying F it and resorted to a very dangerous decision that could result in his death. The guy might have been resilient to depression being induced by lesser circumstances. But what he went through made him a very depressrd pperson. To take idea that depression played no role in him attempting to rob a store would be unwise. It is like concluding the cause of death in someone who had their head cut off was when their body hit the ground after their head was removed. And then insisting this conclusion be taken at face value.
>> > That looks to be what Bartholomew experienced.
>
> Exactly. That's what it looks like, that's why a doctor prescribed for him the antidepressant, Lexapro. #5; #6 However, he is not depressed. #1 He is angry, ruminative, and withdrawn. #5
>
> > Chronic negative circumstances led to him developing lasting symptoms of what is recognized as clinical depression
>
> No. Bartholemew is not depressed. #1
>Scott, the guy experienced depressing events in his life and reacted in a way a depressed person would. But he's not depressed? He even took an antidepressant in hopes it would help... help what?
His social withdrawal, feelings of inferiority, and his rumination his thoughts of anger and indignation. The antidepressant was prescribed and he took it on his own free will in an attempt to help emotional problems causing significant distress in his life.> My question to you is: If you line up 100 people who are exposed to the same psychosocial stresses, how many will get depressed? The remainder will be resilient. Depression seems to be a product of an interaction between nature and nurture. What is the percentage of people who will get depressed from the environment Bartholomew found himself? Do you know? I don't. However, my guess is that fewer people will suffer a persistent psychobiologically driven case of MDD or BD depression than will remain resilient.
>
I don't know.>
> > Am I missing something?
>
> Y
> > True, this guy had what are described as symptoms>
>
> > But even when one perceives a situation like this as nearly hopeless. And they develop lasting feelings of worthlessness and become withdrawn, this doesn't have to happen. With the right brain function, one is more capable of being positive through experiences like his. They become less bothered by things in life and are just more able to see life from a better perspective. Because of this, they are more likely to make better decisions.
>
> We are in agreement here.But sadly, for what ever reason, Bartholomew Bartholomew developed a very unhealthy mindset and experienced many negative emotions that stayed with him. But it's not depression?
>
> > This is what can happen if a certain antidepressant works well for someone.
>
> For Bartholomew, antidepressants did not change his situation because he is not depressed. #7 What should have happened is that the family doctor should have made a follow up appointment during the first few weeks, and then monthly for awhile. After 6 months, the doctor should have sent Bartholomew to a psychiatrist. A psychiatrist would assess his psyche along with screening for major mental illness. A good psyshiatrist would have seen the need for psychotherapy. Psychotherapy would have had a more positive effect than antidepressants.Maybe so. But I will reiterate, one does not react to depressing experiences in such depressing ways that lead up to such an extreme decision unless they have been made depressed. If the suggesting that He simply was not depressed should wisely be taken at face value. Then any suggestion that any time someone commits a crime while taking an antidepressant, that the antidepressant played a causative role in the crime should be taken at face value. That would be just as wise.
> > I've experienced this myself. Cyproheptadine (not exactly an antidepressant) brought me from not being able to leave my house because of severe feelings of inferiority and anxiety, to being able to go anywhere, anytime I wanted without putting a second thought into it. I also would notice what I thought of severe flaws in my appearance that made me feel terribly self-conscious. Cyproheptadine made those flaws unnoticeable to me. It became like they never existed. And basically I felt like my world became bigger and I became able to see the bigger picture thanks to cyproheptadine. I became less irritable and more positive about every aspect of life. Relationships became better as well. I could go on and on about how amazing this med was for me.
>
> I'll have to keep cyproheptadine in mind. Does it sedate you? How many times a day to you need to take it? How long did it take to work? I will be EXTREMELY pissed at myself if cyprohelptadine worked. On my last visit with Baron Shopsin, MD in 1986, he told me to try cyproheptadine. It was a weird idea, and I didn't follow up on it.
>
> Did you try any of the following? How did you respond to them?
>
> amitriptyine or nortriptyline
> Remeron
> atypical antipsychotics
>
> Like cyproheptadine, these drugs all have the property of serotonin 5-HT2a antagonism.
>
>
> - ScottI took it twice a day. It began working on day 1 with a very modest effect that built up over time. My experience is complicated, though. I've mentioned it throughout the time I've used psychobabble. But I've been thinking it's inverse agonist at the 5ht2c receptor is how I mainly benefited from it.
poster:hello321
thread:1083163
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20150929/msgs/1083275.html