Posted by Quintal on August 14, 2007, at 10:24:51
In reply to Re: Vicodin and Percocet for Depression, posted by linkadge on August 14, 2007, at 9:31:48
>I thought the general theme was on "opaites and depression". Everything I said was within that topic.
The point I raised was the likelihood of tolerance to the mood elevating effect of opiates.
>You can easily develop tollerance to one effect of a drug yet not develop tollerance to another effect.
Here we're talking about the antidepressant, or 'mood elevating' effect, is that right? I'd like to expand on this, because an interesting idea occurred to me; is there a difference between 'euphoriant', 'mood-elevating' and 'antidepressant' effect? If you think these are separate effects I'd be interested to hear why you think that, and how you think they differ.
>Euphoria is not a prerequisite for analgesia.
We're not talking about analgesia. We're talking about the psychoactive effects. It's statements like that which I find provocative. It would be helpful if you said something like "For example, euphoria is not a prerequisite for analgesia". If that was what you were thinking. I would disagree on that particular point though because tolerance to the analgesic effect of opiates often develops quickly too, and in that example you're trying to compare the rate of tolerance to a somatic effect to the rate of tolerance to a psychoactive effect. I think it would be fairer to distinguish between tolerance to two psychoactive effects; the euphoriant effects and the antidepressant effects. But we have yet to establish a definite difference between the two, and I think we need to concentrate on doing that before we move on to the next stage.
>Along the same lines, there are researchers who believe that opiates effect on mood might be separable from the effect on depression.
Okay, I'm very interested in this research. Do you have access to any studies?
>Does this mean we scrach Ketamine off our litst of potentially usefull drugs for depression? No.
I think I've already said that I believe opiates are invaluable in the treatment of depression. There is no doubt in my mind about that. I'm currently using opiates for that purpose.
>Perhaps the reason you thought my comments were incoherant or off topic was because I failed to draw together my points.
Yes, that flood of raw data without a consistent thread of logic, or narrative tying them all together was daunting and confusing. It would be helpful if you talked us through your thoughts as you go along so readers can follow your line of reasoning. You're obviously very knowledgeable on esoteric mechanisms link, but you need to say why a certain piece of information is important and talk us through how it fits in the wider picture.
>My main reason for mentioning such "mechanisms" was to suggest that there may be mechanisms destinct from the euphoriant effects of the drugs which are responsable for some individuals ability to use the drugs to treat mood disoders semi-long term.
Great, let's explore them.
Q
poster:Quintal
thread:775567
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20070808/msgs/776185.html