Posted by linkadge on May 29, 2005, at 20:02:24
In reply to Re: Meds need vs addiction?? what do you think?, posted by Phillipa on May 29, 2005, at 18:08:27
"Initially, they do little or nothing at all to elevate mood or produce a sense of well-being. That takes 2-4 weeks to happen."
I don't think a substance needs to have an immediate effect to be classified as addictive, perhaps to be classified as an abusable substance.
"I never experienced this when I responded well to antidepressants. Everything actually seemed rather matter-of-fact. It was I who decided how to proceed with life, not the medication. There was nothing "false" about my sense of wellbeing."
Perhaps I respond differently. But all of the antidepressants have made me simply made me apathetic to my problems. Just tamed down the initial blow of the event. The lack of that appropriate reaction was what made me so unable to respond to the situation correctly. The fact that it was litterally impossable to cry, should have been warning sign enough for myself.
"Perhaps this is true for you [tollerance]. More often than not, it has been true for me as well. However, this is not true of many, many others whom do not fit into a treatment-resistent category. That's why we don't see them here."I think this is kind of wishfull thinking. Again feeding into the idea that the drugs are not at fault but that you are at fault. I'll be the first to admit that my life has been lived "in VAIN" if these drugs come up short of what imagination has made them out to be. I think its clear enought by simply looking at the statistics of the situation. The statistics of skyrocketing antidepressant sales, the statistics that the majority of people being treated are now taking muliple drugs. I think the drugs are extremely overrated in their effectivness, and that we try to boost their effectiveness in our minds because we have restricted ourselves to think that they are the only way to treat depression. My little old neighbour was once on just celexa 10mg, now hes on maximum doses of celexa 60mg, wellbutrin 450mg, and zyprexa 15mg. No, he's not on psychobabble, but his likes are much more common than you might think! When somebody reffered to these drugs as "placebo's with a buzz", at first I became extremely defensive (which is usually a sign that my subcontious knows that this statement hit home) That "buzz" is enought to feed the imagination into believing a lot of things about the drugs. Did you know that the only two drugs that have been "proven" to reduce suicide are lithium, ECT, and Clozapine? But lithium is no fun at all!! Why are antidepressants not cutting it statistically ?
"PSYCHOSOCIAL STRESS MUST BE MINIMIZED IN ORDER FOR THESE DRUGS TO WORK LONG-TERM, OTHERWISE, BREAKTHROUGH DEPRESSION IS INEVITABLE!"
I can't argue with you there, but sometimes minimizing psychosocial stress is the biggest hurdle in overcoming depression, not finding the "right drug"
"The animal models represent an extreme form of chronic psychosocial stress. How the intensity of the experimental paradigm equates to the human condition can only be guessed at. However, the lesson is there to be learned: Reduce psychosocial stress. For many people, this will include psychotherapy."
I know for a fact that my depression was caused by too much stress. The courses I was taking were too hard. Oftentimes giving someone a drug and sending them on their way, SIGNIFICANTLY reinforces their bad habbits. Because I was lead to believe that my depression had nothing to do with life, but was all in my head, I began to make even dumber choices about the future.
Have you seen those images of arachnids on prozac?? Oh sure they might be a bit more resisant to "psychosocial stress", but now they can't even spin a proper web, which would create more psycosocial stress in itself."You haven't mentioned cravings anywhere"
To me the fundemental definition of addicting, is the inability to stop a drug when it is appropriate. That is the biggest problem we have at hand. The average depression does not last more than a year or so, especialy in young people like me. But yet, for some reason discontinuing these drugs makes me feel so utterly, inexplicaby, and excrutiatingly terrable worthless, and suicidal (the likes of which I have *never* experiecned even in my deepest prior depressions) that I must continue taking them. As for craving it:... when I am off of it, I think about it day and night.
"I don't know if I would agree that it is "the" primary action (cocaine). However, which of its actions would you say is most responsible for its recreational use? Does this action appear as a property of any antidepressant you can think of?"
I am sure you have read the studies which show that blocking the 5-ht1a receptor seems to block the rewarding effects of the drug. Blocking the 5-ht1a/b receptors also "completely" changes the pattern of self administration in rats, even more so than the blockade of dopamine receptors. Rats will still administer cocaine even if dopamine receptors are blocked, but not if the 5-ht1a/b receptors are blocked. The reason that rats don't inject themselves with antidepressants is because the enhanced serogotonic function doesn't happen immediately. But thats not to say that the enhanced serotogenic function (when it occurs) does not produce rewarding effects. Dopamine is not the magic pleasure chemical. My "nondepressed", drugee friend stole (without my knowledge) my effexor, and then proceeded to later tell me that if he had had effexor, he woudn't have done all of that cocaine. He then asked me what illness he would need to "fake" to get a prescription for effexor. (Yes I suppose he again could be the exception to the rule)
Linkadge
poster:linkadge
thread:504713
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20050527/msgs/504945.html