Posted by JohnX on March 20, 2001, at 13:00:59
In reply to tyrosine, posted by walt on March 18, 2001, at 17:30:49
> Anyone using tyrosine for depression? I'm currently using it,but I have to keep increasing the dosage.Now taking 3gms. a day and also taking 300mg of 5-htp. I was taking 2.5gms 4 days ago,feel good,but my question is at what dosage should I quit and try something else?
Walt,
I also tried taking both tyrosine and also 5-htp since I was curious to see what the effects would be given that they are quick acting. I found that tyrosine (which requires a good supplement of B-vitamin for efficient conversion to noradrenaline or dopamine) would give me a short lived boost (like 4 hrs) to my depression, but only when I was mildly depressed. I started with 1000 mg and went upto 2000 mg/day. It may be ok if you are in a short term mild slump, but the evidence behind its long-term effectiveness or use for moderate to severe depression symptoms is sketchy at best. This is usually the case with a lot of quick acting meds; the brain has "feed-back" mechanisms to counteract the change in biochemistry. So for me the tyrosine stopped working after about 2-3 weeks, and I was leary to raise the dose fearing health consequences.
The feed-back adjustment to the brain used by typical anti-depressants (Prozac, etc) work so that they give a long lasting effect. That's why they take a few weeks to kick-in. The change in biochemistry (sensitization or desensitization of brain receptors) takes a few weeks and works to the meds advantage, almost as though you become "addicted" to something that is helpful and long lasting at a consistent dose.
The general reason that tyrosine is not too effective is because the rate limiting step for the conversion of tyrosine to dopamine or noradrenaline is another enzyme called tyrosine-hydroxylase. Generally tyrosine-hydroxylase is well oversaturated by tryosine given a normal diet. If it isn't the case, the additional NA or dopamine release well hit a feedback receptor that causes the brain to cut-down on the tyrosine-hydroxylase conversion; thats usually the cause of poop-out, or no effect. There are a few areas of the brain that do not have these feed-back receptors, and it has been hypothesized that tyrosine supplementation may be helpful in these cases as the firing rate of the neurons may out pace the amino acid that begins the conversion process (I.e. under special cercumstances tyrosine rate limits tyrosine-hydroxylase).
Parkinson's patients have deterioration of dopamine producing cells, and take a supplement called L-Dopa which is the by product *after* the tyrosine-hydroxylase conversion, so it doesn't have the conversion limitation.As far as 5-htp goes, it does not have the conversion limiting factor (as far as I know). It will have an effect that raises serotonin levels rather quickly. There is a lot of controversy surrounding the use of 5-htp mainly due to production quality. My experience was that it was a good anti-anxiety med short-term, and sometimes I could use it to help with insomnia (it is very popular for insomniacs). I would experience withdrawl anxiety however, which to me indicates that it does cause potentially detremental adjustments to brain physiology. The extent that it could be a long lasting solution to anything beyond a mild depression has been debateable.
Mainly I would be concerned about the potential health effects. Since the supplements are not regulated by the FDA, there aren't too many studies that look at the long-term implications of taking amino acid precusor supplementation.
BTW, never mix 5-htp with any serotonergic acting anti-depressant. It is very dangerous.If you are experiencing a *mild* depression with anxiety you may want to experiment with St. John's Wort. If your depression or anxiety is severe, I would most definately consult with a quilified physician. Anyways a good physical could point to other medical issues like hypo-thyroid which depression is a symptom of. But you must buy a highly reputable brand of SJW (Kira is probably the best) if you go that route. The herb is actually prescribed in Germany by doctors. Because it exhibits more typical anti-depressant like qualities, it does generally take many weeks to feel an effect. The therapeutic dose is generally recommended at 900 mg/day. I tried it with success and it was nice because it had few side effects if any (that's its main selling point over prescription meds). However, for more severe depression upto 1800 mg/day is a better rule of thumb. Again, the high-quality brands have been used in coutries like Germany for a long time, but one most always be extremely cautious of non FDA regulated products.
Hope this helps.
-John
poster:JohnX
thread:56859
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010319/msgs/56988.html