![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 35. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by zonked on June 20, 2010, at 2:48:15
Over the years, my Mom and many of my friends have said I'd make an excellent psychiatrist...
(I've helped many family and friends educate themselves about meds, often with good results and thank yous!)
I've begun to start thinking about eventually returning to work--I don't think I have the patience for medical school, but I've often wondered if having a mental health history bars one from becoming, say, a psychiatric NP in the US...
(I'll probably return to doing computer/telecom stuff when I go back to work, but it doesn't hurt to ask!)
-z
Posted by Phillipa on June 20, 2010, at 2:48:15
In reply to OT: Can you become a MH professional if you've had a DX?, posted by zonked on June 18, 2010, at 9:30:21
Times have changed but I do know that RN's go to school and practice on meds. Not sure about new docs. Ones in practice take meds mine does she is on an ad. Phillipa ps she told me pristiq
Posted by Christ_empowered on June 20, 2010, at 2:48:15
In reply to OT: Can you become a MH professional if you've had a DX?, posted by zonked on June 18, 2010, at 9:30:21
Hey. I can think of one guy I know--a father of an old friend of mine. Really good psychiatrist psychoanalyst (yes, they still make those)...he's been treated both inside mental health centers and as an outpatient for "issues." Its apparently not a big deal.
I don't know if you'd want to be seeking treatment in your area, though; it might be better to get your meds straight and then go into training. You might also want to get your psych meds from an online pharmacy, not a local one (like drugstore.com--they take insurance and can do most drugs except for Schedule II meds), so that way there's *NO* way you have to worry about anybody knowing what's up.
Good luck.
Posted by mrtook on June 20, 2010, at 2:48:17
In reply to yeah..some of them have probs.., posted by Christ_empowered on June 18, 2010, at 12:01:49
Sure, why not? If you can make it through med school and residency (and pass your boards) you are qualified to take care of patients.
You are not required to divulge your mental health status unless you are doing something that requires a backgroud health checkup. (life insurance, joining the army, etc...) At least in the United States it is not legal for this kind of information to be asked in any sort of interview unless it directly pertains to being able to do the job.
The important thing is if you decide that it is a good idea. If you think your ability to care for people would be comprommised by your condition then it might not be a good idea. Alternatively, if the normal successes and failures of any sort of medical practice would be "unacceptable" to you it might be a bad idea. I myself chose not to pursue an MD because even though I am fascinated by it, I would not be in a good place if a mistake of mine caused injury.
There was a very good piece about a pediatrician with bipolar I that I read a while ago. I wish that I could find it.
Posted by violette on June 20, 2010, at 2:48:17
In reply to OT: Can you become a MH professional if you've had a DX?, posted by zonked on June 18, 2010, at 9:30:21
Zonked,
I never researched the issue but have read time and time again many who go into the mental health industry were influenced by their own mental heatlh issues.
My Pdoc told me that psychiatrists have more mental health issues than the general population. He said many Pdocs are f-up...We had some conversations of PDocs who practice in my area, doctors who he and I both knew, and it was interesting that we had similar opinions about their issues.
He had also disclosed to me the medications that he has prescribed to himself. I don't know if the prevalence of practioners with mental disorders is statistically true or not, but my Pdoc has been around the block, so to speak. I do think the stigma associated with mental illness permeates the profession like many others, so maybe most are discreet about it?
Here'a a resource you may want to use to inquire further:
At the top left of the page, there is a link to a forum where you can ask a question or read others' comments about the topic.
I consider a psychiatrist with personal mental health issues to be an asset; however, it can cause major problems when someone with notable unresolved issues conducts psychotherapy. From past experience, I now only trust therapists who have had psychoanalytic training or have had extensive psychotheapy themselves (psychoanalysts are normally required to be in their own therapy for years before obtaining the certification). I don't expect my opinion to be popular, but again, just my observations....Practicing psychotherapy is much different from practicing medicine, imo. Most psychiatrists do not practice therapy anyway...
But for a mainstream psychiatrist or a MD--I think its great--an asset--if the doctor has personal experience with medications and mental illness....You should go for it.
Good luck with whatever you decide!
Posted by linkadge on June 20, 2010, at 2:48:17
In reply to Re: OT: Can you become a MH professional if you've had a DX? » zonked, posted by violette on June 18, 2010, at 20:40:38
Don't psychiatrists have a very high suicide rate (compared to other professions?)
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on June 20, 2010, at 2:48:17
In reply to Re: OT: Can you become a MH professional if you've had a DX?, posted by linkadge on June 18, 2010, at 21:11:20
From what I know I feel it's true. One I saw did committ suicide by carbon monoxide. Phillipa ps he was always trying to get me to up benzos said no
Posted by Christ_empowered on June 20, 2010, at 2:48:18
In reply to Re: OT: Can you become a MH professional if you've had a DX?, posted by linkadge on June 18, 2010, at 21:11:20
Yeah, I've heard that they based the claim that shrinks have unusually high substance abuse, divorce, and suicide rates on some older data. From what I heard (granted, I read this online AND this was a while ago, so who knows if this is true...) the American Psychiatric Association (APA) has statisticians who have been keep track of all this BUT...not surprisingly...they've been refusing to release their numbers. Apparently, shrinks can justify forcing the "mentally ill" to undergo treatment by saying "its for their own good," and use selected studies to prove their point, but they don't like it when statistical analysis is applied to their own behavior. Hmmm...
To be fair, from what I understand, people in the higher levels of the medical professions (doctors, pharmacists, etc.) tend to have higher-than-average suicide rates. This is in part b/c they are still predominantly white (many minority groups have lower suicide rates b/c of greater community involvement and more supportive family structures), they make more money than the average person (both extreme poverty AND wealth drive up suicide rates; I believe both involve a reduced "stake in conformity" and a bit of "anomie"), there's less religious involvement (religious affiliation, especially the kind that gets you involved with other people on a regular basis, drives down suicide rates), and they have access to the drugs.
Within the medical profession, I've heard that pharmacists may have a higher suicide rate b/c they're kind of on the bottom of the totem poll (they get paid well, but there's less prestige and lots of stress), and they're surrounded by drugs everyday. Shrinks, I imagine, would similarly suffer from being involved in a less-than-respected field of medicine; they earn less than other specialties (on average, I think about the same as a general practice physician) and they aren't given the same prestige as, say, a surgeon or a neurologist. Also, you can't ignore the fact that they are indoctrinated into a belief system that reduces emotions to chemicals and brain structure (I say "belief system" b/c adherence to this dogma varies within psychiatry and the proof for this belief system is still lacking).
Also, you have to think: what effect does drugging people up all day have on a person's psyche? And: what kind of a person goes into psychiatry in the first place? I've heard from other docs that psychiatrists often don't do as well in med school as, say, dermatologists, and they're often trained in foreign schools either a) b/c they are foreign (this is especially common in public health services) or b) they found foreign schools appealing b/c...umm..they could actually get in.
And..think: what kind of person would get an MD to practice a controversial branch of medicine that involves coercing or forcing people to take drugs that are known to be hazardous and are only somewhat effective? What kind of a doctor pursues a branch of medicine that involves destroying the very organ (the brain) they are supposed to working on?Who know...sometimes I think the crappy lives some shrinks seem to have may be due to Karma or divine retribution.
Posted by Phillipa on June 20, 2010, at 2:48:18
In reply to shrinks+self-destruction..., posted by Christ_empowered on June 18, 2010, at 21:51:52
The one I knew also worked with him he was mostly adolescent. He also played in a band for fun. Used to drink a lot and they said he passed out in the garage with the car's motor running. Nice guy. Phillipa
Posted by mellow on June 20, 2010, at 2:48:18
In reply to OT: Can you become a MH professional if you've had a DX?, posted by zonked on June 18, 2010, at 9:30:21
There are mentally ill people in all professions. I am willing to wager many people who get into mental health have a lot of empathy for the patient's/clients due to their own struggles or the struggles of a loved one.
When i asked my therapist why she got into counseling she said "b/c my family is really f*cked up and i wanted to help people who felt screwed up like me." We both laughed out loud!
It is also like an unspoken rule that to be a substance abuse counselor you have to be a recovered drunk/addict yourself. So there are some instances in the mental health field where it helps to have some battle scars. You can't teach people coping skills if you haven't learned your own from experience.
I've thought a lot about getting my masters degree in social work. Its a big commitment so my therapist suggested i volunteer first to get a feel for the mental health field. So i started bringing Alcoholics Anonymous meetings to a local pysch ward last year. It has been really cool and i have a lot of empathy for the patient's there b/c of all the stuff i have been through.
Maybe you could do some volunteer work first to see if you are suited for it.
Best of luck!
mellow
Posted by bulldog2 on June 20, 2010, at 2:48:18
In reply to Re: yeah..some of them have probs.., posted by bulldog2 on June 19, 2010, at 8:47:23
> Yeah, I've heard that they based the claim that shrinks have unusually high substance abuse, divorce, and suicide rates on some older data. From what I heard (granted, I read this online AND this was a while ago, so who knows if this is true...) the American Psychiatric Association (APA) has statisticians who have been keep track of all this BUT...not surprisingly...they've been refusing to release their numbers. Apparently, shrinks can justify forcing the "mentally ill" to undergo treatment by saying "its for their own good," and use selected studies to prove their point, but they don't like it when statistical analysis is applied to their own behavior. Hmmm...
>
> To be fair, from what I understand, people in the higher levels of the medical professions (doctors, pharmacists, etc.) tend to have higher-than-average suicide rates. This is in part b/c they are still predominantly white (many minority groups have lower suicide rates b/c of greater community involvement and more supportive family structures), they make more money than the average person (both extreme poverty AND wealth drive up suicide rates; I believe both involve a reduced "stake in conformity" and a bit of "anomie"), there's less religious involvement (religious affiliation, especially the kind that gets you involved with other people on a regular basis, drives down suicide rates), and they have access to the drugs.
> Within the medical profession, I've heard that pharmacists may have a higher suicide rate b/c they're kind of on the bottom of the totem poll (they get paid well, but there's less prestige and lots of stress), and they're surrounded by drugs everyday. Shrinks, I imagine, would similarly suffer from being involved in a less-than-respected field of medicine; they earn less than other specialties (on average, I think about the same as a general practice physician) and they aren't given the same prestige as, say, a surgeon or a neurologist. Also, you can't ignore the fact that they are indoctrinated into a belief system that reduces emotions to chemicals and brain structure (I say "belief system" b/c adherence to this dogma varies within psychiatry and the proof for this belief system is still lacking).
> Also, you have to think: what effect does drugging people up all day have on a person's psyche? And: what kind of a person goes into psychiatry in the first place? I've heard from other docs that psychiatrists often don't do as well in med school as, say, dermatologists, and they're often trained in foreign schools either a) b/c they are foreign (this is especially common in public health services) or b) they found foreign schools appealing b/c...umm..they could actually get in.
> And..think: what kind of person would get an MD to practice a controversial branch of medicine that involves coercing or forcing people to take drugs that are known to be hazardous and are only somewhat effective? What kind of a doctor pursues a branch of medicine that involves destroying the very organ (the brain) they are supposed to working on?
>
> Who know...sometimes I think the crappy lives some shrinks seem to have may be due to Karma or divine retribution.
>
>You need not reply as this is my last post. Dr. Bob you need not block me as this is my last post.
Mr. Christ Empowered what I see you doing is one of the reasons I do not like religion or follow any particular denomination. I am not against God as I have my own way of understanding the universise.
My points of contention with you.
1. You have brought a religious agenda into a med room which is inappropriate. You have the right to your beliefs but you have become arrogant to others here and just bash everything to your delight.
2. The belief in God is faith based and not a proven science. You bring the premise in here that since you have seen the light it must be true. No that is what you believe.
3. The belief in Christ is also faith based and the claims of what he has done and that he has arisen from the dead are faith based. there are many religions in here that are also faith based that do not believe your faith based religion.
4. You have seen the light may make it the truth for you but it is not my truth or the truth of millions around the world.
5. You are having fun bashing psychiatry and medicine but let's look at Christianity. There were Crusades in the name of Christ that brought warfare around the wrold. There was anti semitism in Europe that killed millions of Jews. You breed intolerance and Christianity has stirred constant warfare and hatred against others who do not believe.
6. You have the nerve to come in here and bash psychiatry. You have nothing better to do. You play lose with facts. I was never forced to take meds and I know many in here were not forced. It is possible in institutions that the insane were forced. But millions of us have gone voluntarily to the p-doc and voluntarily taken meds.
7. This is your belief and may be the truth for you and others but for many is not the truth. Science cannot not yet prove the things you call the truth.
8. you need to be in a room that deals in issues of religion. Perhaps issues of intolerance that have been perpetiated by the church and led to warfare and the death of millions needs to be addressed.
9. Personally you have offended me by bringing a religious agenda into a room where people come for info on meds. I don't care if you found the answer in Christ as that is not relevant in this room.
10. I will be blocked for not being civil but I don't feel like being civil to you. You are arrogant and have bullied your way arround this room. You have intimidated people with your attitude. No one has had the courage to call you on your faith based agenda. Nothing is more faith based than religion and you have the gall to bash psychiatry for not being scientific enough for you.
11. Goodbye to babble as I have learned enough to know my road. Christ emp maybe you got better because you empowered yourself.
12. To Dr. Bob. Personally I feel the way he uses his name is offensive to us of other religions as we have Hindu, muslim, Buddhist, Jewish and many other faiths who think they have found the way.
13. To Christ empowered being arrogant is not the way Christ would have wanted his followers to be.
14. Farwell to babble as I have been here many years. But as usual there is a time to bid farwell and to all of those who know the ultimate truth.
Posted by mrtook on June 20, 2010, at 2:48:18
In reply to Re: yeah..some of them have probs..-To Med Emp, posted by bulldog2 on June 19, 2010, at 8:51:54
Don't go....that might have been the point all along....
Posted by mrtook on June 20, 2010, at 2:48:19
In reply to shrinks+self-destruction..., posted by Christ_empowered on June 18, 2010, at 21:51:52
> Yeah, I've heard that they based the claim that shrinks have unusually high substance abuse, divorce, and suicide rates on some older data. From what I heard (granted, I read this online AND this was a while ago, so who knows if this is true...) the American Psychiatric Association (APA) has statisticians who have been keep track of all this BUT...not surprisingly...they've been refusing to release their numbers. Apparently, shrinks can justify forcing the "mentally ill" to undergo treatment by saying "its for their own good," and use selected studies to prove their point, but they don't like it when statistical analysis is applied to their own behavior. Hmmm...
>
> To be fair, from what I understand, people in the higher levels of the medical professions (doctors, pharmacists, etc.) tend to have higher-than-average suicide rates. This is in part b/c they are still predominantly white (many minority groups have lower suicide rates b/c of greater community involvement and more supportive family structures), they make more money than the average person (both extreme poverty AND wealth drive up suicide rates; I believe both involve a reduced "stake in conformity" and a bit of "anomie"), there's less religious involvement (religious affiliation, especially the kind that gets you involved with other people on a regular basis, drives down suicide rates), and they have access to the drugs.
> Within the medical profession, I've heard that pharmacists may have a higher suicide rate b/c they're kind of on the bottom of the totem poll (they get paid well, but there's less prestige and lots of stress), and they're surrounded by drugs everyday. Shrinks, I imagine, would similarly suffer from being involved in a less-than-respected field of medicine; they earn less than other specialties (on average, I think about the same as a general practice physician) and they aren't given the same prestige as, say, a surgeon or a neurologist. Also, you can't ignore the fact that they are indoctrinated into a belief system that reduces emotions to chemicals and brain structure (I say "belief system" b/c adherence to this dogma varies within psychiatry and the proof for this belief system is still lacking).
> Also, you have to think: what effect does drugging people up all day have on a person's psyche? And: what kind of a person goes into psychiatry in the first place? I've heard from other docs that psychiatrists often don't do as well in med school as, say, dermatologists, and they're often trained in foreign schools either a) b/c they are foreign (this is especially common in public health services) or b) they found foreign schools appealing b/c...umm..they could actually get in.
> And..think: what kind of person would get an MD to practice a controversial branch of medicine that involves coercing or forcing people to take drugs that are known to be hazardous and are only somewhat effective? What kind of a doctor pursues a branch of medicine that involves destroying the very organ (the brain) they are supposed to working on?
>
> Who know...sometimes I think the crappy lives some shrinks seem to have may be due to Karma or divine retribution.
>
>I get that you don't like shrinks.
What I don't get is why you followed up a well reasoned analysis of higher suicide rates in certain classes and professions with a diatribe against shrinks. Consider what you are saying about our host Dr. Bob? Do you wish him ill?
I would imagine the real reason psyciatry is not a first choice for graduating med students has more to do with dealing with the patients. (the 3 am pages, the mistrust, and having me as a patient.) as well as being relatively under payed.
Posted by bulldog2 on June 20, 2010, at 2:48:19
In reply to bulldog...., posted by mrtook on June 19, 2010, at 9:48:31
> Don't go....that might have been the point all along....
I understand that people don't want to to be punished for being uncivil.I will be your martyr and take the stiffest punishment that Dr. Bob will assign to me. That I will not tolerate religious intolerance and allow people coming in here flauting their faith and boasting of they have seen the light and they know the truth. The rest of my grievances against Christ Emp can be read in my post.
My time is running out to those who are my friends before Dr. Bob comes down on me with a punishment that will entail my banishment from babble.
Farewell my friends. Some have already written their support. Thank you.
Posted by zonked on June 20, 2010, at 2:48:19
In reply to Re: shrinks+self-destruction..., posted by mrtook on June 19, 2010, at 9:54:58
Hmm.
I have never been forced to take medication against my will; then again I have never been violent or physically self destructive--when I've been offered meds I didn't want to take I simply told the doctor I didn't feel comfortable with a particular drug and moved on.
I think if you want to become a psychiatrist or NP, you need to spend a lot of time on a psych unit treating disorders spanning the entire DSM (and beyond) I'd feel uncomfortable dealing with violent or highly psychotic patients..
I totally get why psychiatrists are stressed--what if (like me) repeated med trials didn't work? Or if the treatment caused intolerable or adverse side effects? Or if a patient achieved remission and a med stopped working; or worse, a patient paid the ultimate price for a treatment not working soon or well enough?
Cut psychiatrists a break. Yeah, there are good and bad pdocs like any other profession.
Some of us need medication in order to function. No amount of therapy, deep breathing, religion, good diet and exercise or vitamins will ever be enough to pull some of us out of our misery. I wish they worked alone but are only complementary therapies for me, and only with meds as a foundation--and when the meds are working, they do help.
(Except religion. I am a secular humanist/agnostic. Oh, and deep breathing has never worked either! Heh.)
Having said that, I do think too many people reach for meds too soon, people without clinical affective disorders, but that is a complex issue--it is the fault of the pharma industry, many psychiatrists who need their money to do research, and an American government which does not properly regulate pharmaceutical advertising or properly fund or regulate psychiatric research so it is not excessively influenced by profit motives.
This has been a *great* thread for--I'll continue to keep myself educated as long as I am a patient, but I don't think I'd want the responsibility of caring for the mental health of strangers, even if I was well for a long time....
-z
Posted by chujoe on June 20, 2010, at 2:48:19
In reply to Re: shrinks+self-destruction..., posted by zonked on June 19, 2010, at 10:27:49
Well-said, Zonked! An eloquent call for moderation and understanding.
Posted by Justherself54 on June 20, 2010, at 2:48:19
In reply to shrinks+self-destruction..., posted by Christ_empowered on June 18, 2010, at 21:51:52
> Yeah, I've heard that they based the claim that shrinks ......
From what I heard (granted, I read this online AND this was a while ago, so who knows if this is true...) the American Psychiatric Association (APA) has statisticians ....
> Within the medical profession, I've heard that pharmacists....
> I've heard from other docs that psychiatrists often don't do as well in med school as, say, dermatologists.....I gather from reading some of your posts that you are very young and I believe you stated you have been med free for 3 months. There is a saying "don't believe everything you hear".
I know you are obviously very passionate about your position that faith can heal, however, you must respect that others don't share the same belief system as you.
You seem to believe that many psychiatrists are somehow inferior to other medical doctors, and get their degrees from foreign countries. Are you saying that foreign countries don't produce trained professionals?
I don't believe that my psychiatrist entered his profession to destroy my brain. To read some of your comments at first angered and offended me and then I remembered how young you are and have been med free for a grand total of three months.
Life's lessons are the greatest teacher and you have just started on your journey. There are many members of babble who are great teachers..it may serve you better to listen to what they have to say.
Posted by Elanor Roosevelt on June 20, 2010, at 2:48:19
In reply to OT: Can you become a MH professional if you've had a DX?, posted by zonked on June 18, 2010, at 9:30:21
perhaps you can return to the work you are familiar with and do some volunteer work in a psychiatric clinic to help you decide whether you want to persue your NP studies
I think that people who have had their own struggles are more likely to be compassionate care takers. it sounds like you might be a fine candidate for this.
good luck
Posted by Phillipa on June 20, 2010, at 2:48:20
In reply to Re: shrinks+self-destruction..., posted by mrtook on June 19, 2010, at 9:54:58
Just googled highest rate and it's physicians and females over males due to knowing what meds and stigma of society. Interesting as my pdoc didn't hesitate to tell me she takes pristiq. And the surgeon got the name of the RN's doc for me. Phillipa
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 20, 2010, at 3:25:34
In reply to Re: yeah..some of them have probs..-To Med Emp, posted by bulldog2 on June 20, 2010, at 2:48:18
> you have become arrogant to others here
>
> You breed intolerance
>
> You play lose with facts.Would anyone be willing to try to show bulldog how he might rephrase the above or to encourage him to apologize? You may have the power to help him avoid being blocked again.
mrtook, thanks for having tried already.
--
> To Dr. Bob. Personally I feel the way he uses his name is offensive to us of other religions as we have Hindu, muslim, Buddhist, Jewish and many other faiths who think they have found the way.
I think his name is OK. It's not "Christ_is_the_only_way"...
Bob
Posted by Dinah on June 20, 2010, at 8:03:02
In reply to shrinks self-destruction..., posted by Christ_empowered on June 20, 2010, at 2:48:18
> Who know...sometimes I think the crappy lives some shrinks seem to have may be due to Karma or divine retribution.
That doesn't seem like something the God I worship would do to people who are trying to help others, no matter how misguided you believe their help may be. Even Job, which is not one of my favorite books of the bible, makes the point that the misfortune of others should not be blamed on them, or seen as God's punishment.
People from all walks of lives life crappy lives. And sadly those who most put themselves in the way of trying to help others open themselves to the pain around them, and often have their own lives affected by this. With the occasional exception that is true in any field, I think doctors have a desire to help their patients, not harm them.
I'm sorry if you feel yourself harmed by the actions of psychiatrists. When I'm in those situations, I try to remember what God would have me do. I pray for wisdom and knowledge and compassion for those who I feel hurt by, and for myself as well. (If you wish to share the good news of Jesus Christ that you have found in your life, mightn't the best way be to show, by example, his grace and the peace you have found in it?)
Posted by Dinah on June 20, 2010, at 8:12:38
In reply to Re: bulldog....- I Will Be Your Martyr » mrtook, posted by bulldog2 on June 20, 2010, at 2:48:19
If you're blocked, your voice is stilled. Do you really think that helps others as much as allowing your voice to continue to be heard?
At times I find Babble, and human interaction, a bit overstimulating, and I need a break from Babble. My therapist encourages me to step away from Babble until I can engage here productively again.
If you need a break, it's fine to take one. But wouldn't you rather take one on your own terms, not Dr. Bob's?
You say that others have written their support. Are you saying they support you martyring yourself for them by having your voice silenced by a block, for things they are unwilling to be blocked to say? I support you to remain here, and to phrase your thoughts in such a way that you can continue to be heard. I can't help but think that would be a better choice for those who agree with your point of view.
Martyrdom, freely chosen, is highly overrated, IMO. Certainly there are times when it is not freely chosen. But I don't see this as one of those times when there is no other way to stay true to your beliefs. It's possible to express your opinions while staying within the civility guidelines. If you don't wish to, that's fine and it's your choice. But I don't see how it's a better way to exercise your principles.
Posted by bulldog2 on June 20, 2010, at 8:28:55
In reply to Why a martyr? » bulldog2, posted by Dinah on June 20, 2010, at 8:12:38
> If you're blocked, your voice is stilled. Do you really think that helps others as much as allowing your voice to continue to be heard?
>
> At times I find Babble, and human interaction, a bit overstimulating, and I need a break from Babble. My therapist encourages me to step away from Babble until I can engage here productively again.
>
> If you need a break, it's fine to take one. But wouldn't you rather take one on your own terms, not Dr. Bob's?
>
> You say that others have written their support. Are you saying they support you martyring yourself for them by having your voice silenced by a block, for things they are unwilling to be blocked to say? I support you to remain here, and to phrase your thoughts in such a way that you can continue to be heard. I can't help but think that would be a better choice for those who agree with your point of view.
>
> Martyrdom, freely chosen, is highly overrated, IMO. Certainly there are times when it is not freely chosen. But I don't see this as one of those times when there is no other way to stay true to your beliefs. It's possible to express your opinions while staying within the civility guidelines. If you don't wish to, that's fine and it's your choice. But I don't see how it's a better way to exercise your principles.I appreciate the support of others for my viewpoint and not my martyrdom. But Dr. Bob has just threatened me with being blocked if I do not rephrase my words. No I will not as those are my words and how I chose to phrase them. I knew this would happen just a bit later. I appreciate the support of all and Goodbye again.Farewell to all and good luck.
Posted by Dinah on June 20, 2010, at 9:20:40
In reply to Re: Why a martyr?, posted by bulldog2 on June 20, 2010, at 8:28:55
I can respect the choices people make, even if they aren't the ones I would make.
I hope that when your block is up, that you choose to return and add your voice to the discussion again. But if you don't choose that, I wish you all the best.
Posted by violette on June 20, 2010, at 11:05:49
In reply to Re: being blocked again, posted by Dr. Bob on June 20, 2010, at 3:25:34
Bob,
"Would anyone be willing to try to show bulldog how he might rephrase the above or to encourage him to apologize?"
Is there anyway you could reword your phrases so that do not resemble parental shaming techniques?
The technique you have been using here is similar to shaming done by families. Whether 'shaming' people into compliance with your version of civility is or is not your intentions, I'm triggered by the way you go about this. Some people who were repeatedly shamed as children end up shaming others as adults. Considering that, and the mental health effects caused by the shaming behavior of family memnbers, it does not seem appropriate for a mental health community. Even though these are not personally directed at me, I find the way this is done to be upsetting, offending, and it may be hurtful to community members who are sensitive to this type of behavior.
shaming:
1 : to bring shame to : disgrace <shamed the family name>
2 : to put to shame by outdoing
3 : to cause to feel shame
4 : to force by causing to feel guilty <shamed into confessing>"Believing that making you ashamed would motivate you to behave as they wished (The demands of a dysfunctional shame-bound family are irrational and inconsistent, for the family only knows it is unhappy and does not know what would make things better. The child becomes the scapegoat for the family's incompetency in solving its problems-in-living.), your parents intended you to feel shame about yourself for your "bad" behavior. Sometimes, they even rationalized that shaming you was "for your own good."
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