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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Nickengland on October 15, 2005, at 6:45:01
In reply to Re: Why won't you get help? » Deneb, posted by Nickengland on October 15, 2005, at 6:27:46
Treatment
Treatments for BPD have improved in recent years. Group and individual psychotherapy are at least partially effective for many patients. Within the past 15 years, a new psychosocial treatment termed dialectical behavior therapy (DBT) was developed specifically to treat BPD, and this technique has looked promising in treatment studies. Pharmacological treatments are often prescribed based on specific target symptoms shown by the individual patient. Antidepressant drugs and mood stabilizers may be helpful for depressed and/or labile mood. Antipsychotic drugs may also be used when there are distortions in thinking.http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/bpd.cfm
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Treatments for BPD have improved in recent years...
In 1991, a new psychosocial treatment termed Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT) was developed specifically to treat BPD, and this technique was the first to show any efficacy compared to a control group. Marsha Linehan, the developer of DBT, said in the early days that it took about a year to see substantial enduring improvement. Combining SSRIs and DBT (probably the standard treatment now) seems to give satisfying synergy and faster results.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderline_personality
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In Conclusion
Psychotherapeutic interventions have been shown to be the most effective intervention for modifying some forms of difficult behaviour displayed by people with personality disorders. These treatments require time and special expertise and should be delivered by specialist treatment facilities.
http://www.iop.kcl.ac.uk/iopweb/departments/home/default.aspx?locator=600
(Maudsley Hospital in London is possibly the best in the UK for psychiatric reseach from what I understand)
Best of luck I hope this information helps.
Best Wishes
Nick
Posted by holymama on October 15, 2005, at 7:13:03
In reply to Re: Why won't you get help?Deneb, posted by Nickengland on October 15, 2005, at 6:45:01
Thoughts about wanting to kill yourself without actually doing it is called 'suicidal ideation'. You definitely are experiencing that right now. Any hospital will accept you if you have suicidal ideation. You just tell them that you are thinking about it, and they will ask you if you have a plan on how you would do it. I think you have that too.
A lot of people go into the hospital without having tried to kill themselves. Just the thought to do it is enough. If you were to go into the hospital with just the thought to harm yourself, it means you were smart and prevented yourself from getting that far.
I've admitted myself to a psych hospital three times because of suicidal ideation. I couldn't get those thoughts out of my head and I didn't feel safe in that frame of mind.
Perhaps you have grown and learned enough since your OD so that you will get help BEFORE you do it, not after.
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS PROVING YOURSELF ON THIS WEBSITE! WE ALL KNOW HOW TWISTED OUR MINDS CAN GET WHEN WE ARE ILL, AND WE KNOW THAT SUICIDAL URGES COME AND GO. yOU DON'T NEED TO FOLLOW THROUGH ON A THREAT TO PROVE THAT YOU WILL DO WHAT YOU SAY. EVERYONE HOPES YOU WILL GET HELP FOR THESE FEELINGS AND THOUGHTS, NOT FOLLOW THROUGH WITH THEM.
~~Autumn~~
Posted by NikkiT2 on October 15, 2005, at 7:46:30
In reply to Deneb: suicidal ideation **Trigger**, posted by holymama on October 15, 2005, at 7:13:03
I can't find the exact post where you posted the stats of how many people with BPD commit suicide.
Current thinking on that area isn't that 9% commit suicide, its that 9% die. Its thought that a substantial number of those people *weren't* meaning to die. It was self harm gone wrong.. ie, they self harmed (eg, by taking an over dose that they didn't think was large enough to kill them) but ended up dying.
It skews the stats, as they are still recorded as suicide most of the time.
Deneb, my "preferred" method of self harm, nearly always to punish myself for something, was taking over doses that wren't enough to kill me, but enough to make me ill.. I never reported to ospital with these, and I'm lucky to now be alive. BUT, I know deal daily with stomach problems and bowel problems caused by this, my liver function is "borderline", and I can't take ANY oral pain killers any more. Thanks to my over doses, I can't even take pain killers for the severe, chronic pain I suffer from nerve damage in my arm.
Can you imagine getting one of those bad, nasty head aches and not being able to take anything for them? Getting flu and not being able to take anything for the fever and aches and pains?
A "mini overdose" as I always called them can be dangerous, long term.. just because they dont kill, it doesnt mean that they#re not doing nasty damage.
If you wanted to just go and do it, you would.. By posting here you are trying to find, how ever subconciously, a means to stop yourself.. Let us help you stop this behaviour..
I hope you went to the hospital. They are there to help you.. Tell them you are wanting to take an over dose.. just that.. simple.. tell them you are siffering from suicidal ideation.. Find the crisis line for your psychiatric services and CALL THEM.. (And dont tell us tere isn't one for you..)
Nikki xx
Posted by rainbowbrite on October 15, 2005, at 8:38:35
In reply to Re: CLARIFICATION Alexandra » rainbowbrite, posted by alexandra_k on October 15, 2005, at 4:58:55
> I have been! there was no trigger to the post in question.
--no. but it was going to be about understanding triggers etc - which kind of implies that she was having difficulty there.
I am not talking about this post! this post was not what upset me! When I read the upsetting post ON ANOTNER board I babbled DEneb, asking to put trigger on certasin things SO THAT I COULD AVOID IT. its a very vulnerable feeling to do that and say this is my pain could you warn me in advance. This was my response!! This thread. NO acknowledgement, nothing. No reply from her BUt this thread. I let her know exactly what it was, why it bothered me and then this thread!! Does it make sense now? once again it was NOT this thread.
It was a personal thing, and I was trying to gently let her know and ask becasue of my issues if she would put trigger on certain topics so I could avoid. WAs that so wrong of me? was that too selfish of me? I offered to be there if she needed. PLease was that so wrong? should I have posted a thread about it insteasd? I didnt want to because of how it hurts me, I didnt want DEneb to feel attacked, but her own thread did that. Maybe that is what the goal was, I dont knwo. i just wanted her to know where I was defective and that maybe if she wouldnt mind warning me. i didnt want to make a big deal about it. So this was the response Am I overreacting? Im upset this thread happened,,,NOT becasue of the TRigger issue though. because I feel like either she didnt respect me or i dont know...As I said before, I must be too sensitive.> To me it feels like this is all a repeat over adn over agian but done with slightly differnet words.
>i think that because of last time (where there was a joke)
you might be primed to see it that way this time too?
no I thought last time was not a joke, in fact I think that was about 5 threads like this ago. I cant remember but I do not have that fresh in my mind, I was trying to explain to her how she comes accross at times.
I know Deneb is in very real excruciating pain at times. I just wish she was more receptive to help. I feel for her, it must be very difficult. I hope that one day seh talks to her paresnt and explains her pain, I hope that one day she will trust her pdoc and do what he recomends, I hope that one day she gets treatment because she is a very smart girl who could make a diffenrece. I care about what happens to Deneb, and I hope she is ok. I really do.
>maybe avoid all of denebs posts with 'trigger' or 'suicide' in the subject header?again, I had been..there was no trigger
>i don't think you are too sensitive.
i have to avoid some posts at times too.
don't even open them.
>other people open them
other people may well be in a better place to deal with them
other people respond to them>and then when one is feeling better one may be able to read.
or not...
but there are other people here and there is no obligation to read everything.I do the same thing, I was not in the mood to read anything triggery, I was on my way out, I was just checking to see how she was doing in a follow up thread on another board, not this thread. this thread upsetme only becasue I couldnt understand how AFTER my babble she still didnt understand. It hurt. To me It felt like this was to stir people up. If she wanted further explanation she could have asked me. Does anyone understand what Im saying? I feel like Im not being clear. I was/am insulted by this thread :-( but it really matters to me that you understand that it was not this thread, I saw it and my face went red from anger and I burst into tears, That is orobably not a time to post but.. i was upset that I had had such an intense reaction to babble. kind of scared me.
i understand not knowing what to put trigger on, I do. It took me forever to understand the concept of trigger. I learned the impact recenl=tly. What I do not understnad is how someone elses pain can not be understood. Its just empathy. If you babbled me adn said....hey rain when you get stressed at school it really triggers mee and I get really worked up because of a personal issue (stupid example I know) would you mind putting trigger when you post that? How would you feel if I wrote publicly on the boards "hi everyone, i dont understand trigger, I dont understnad why certain people are affected buy a word, I dont understand etc." do you see what Im saying? I felt awful. It felt invalidating. I thought I must be overreacting.>sometimes i have trouble with particular posters even and we just seem to kind of ignore each others posts.
well Im going to stay away for a bit, and I will not be reading anymore of Denebs posts becasue I cant trust it when there is NO trigger that it wont be a trigger.
> Also forgetting happens to everyone. But how can you forget something like this? What I was trying to say is I just cant understand that.
>when its your trauma...
it can be hard to figure out how to forget it.Im confused? she shouldnt forget then? That was a resoinse to you sayng she forgets about all this, sorry if I wasnt clear.
my itital post on this thread to Deneb was not meant to be understodd by anyone other thatn Deneb, sorry for cbeing confusing.
Am I being clear? Will someone tell me if they know what Im saying before I lose it?Thanks
Posted by Nickengland on October 15, 2005, at 8:58:34
In reply to very frustrated » alexandra_k, posted by rainbowbrite on October 15, 2005, at 8:38:35
Hi rainbowbrite,
>Am I being clear? Will someone tell me if they know what Im saying before I lose it?
:-)
I understand exactly what you're saying, don't worry you are not losing it!
I have wrote long detailed posts to Deneb too in this thread and in the past about my Grandfather who commited suicide, when she was later blocked for joking about death. Only to have my posts not replied too.
I think theres a moral in this thread somewhere, or at least I've learnt alot from it.
Warm regards
Nick
Posted by rainbowbrite on October 15, 2005, at 9:02:50
In reply to Re: very frustrated » rainbowbrite, posted by Nickengland on October 15, 2005, at 8:58:34
I appretiate that.
Im so sorry about your grandfather (((Nick)))
You have posted some great things. very insightful and helpful.
Take care
Rain
Posted by Nickengland on October 15, 2005, at 9:26:19
In reply to Thank you NIck! » Nickengland, posted by rainbowbrite on October 15, 2005, at 9:02:50
Posted by crazy teresa on October 15, 2005, at 11:51:52
In reply to very frustrated » alexandra_k, posted by rainbowbrite on October 15, 2005, at 8:38:35
Hey Rain,
I hope you're ok. I understand what you're saying. Back away from the edge. ;~} We're here for you. I'm sorry this has happened.
XOXO
crazy t
Posted by Deneb on October 15, 2005, at 12:06:22
In reply to some current thinking on BPD - Deneb, posted by NikkiT2 on October 15, 2005, at 7:46:30
Posted by crazy teresa on October 15, 2005, at 12:11:27
In reply to I'm safe...Mom is home all day (nm), posted by Deneb on October 15, 2005, at 12:06:22
Posted by Deneb on October 15, 2005, at 12:34:03
In reply to very frustrated » alexandra_k, posted by rainbowbrite on October 15, 2005, at 8:38:35
Rainbowbite,
I started this thread because I was angry at you for telling me to put triggers up when I was in such an obviously distraught state. To me it seemed like you just wanted to upset me even more and push me to suicide. Yes, I was that upset. I thought that you were being selfish because your hurt wouldn't lead you to kill yourself, but your trying to alleviate your hurt could have possibility lead me to suicide and yet you still did it.
That is how badly I felt. It is selfish yes. That's all I can say. There is no rhyme or reason to how I feel. I'm insane, remember that.
Posted by Deneb on October 15, 2005, at 12:36:45
In reply to Re: very frustrated » rainbowbrite, posted by Nickengland on October 15, 2005, at 8:58:34
> I have wrote long detailed posts to Deneb too in this thread and in the past about my Grandfather who commited suicide, when she was later blocked for joking about death. Only to have my posts not replied too.
Sorry I didn't reply to you. I was tired and didn't want to think.
Deneb
Posted by rainbowbrite on October 15, 2005, at 13:03:13
In reply to To rainbowbrite, why I got angry at you, posted by Deneb on October 15, 2005, at 12:34:03
And I will return the curtisy to you.
>I thought that you were being selfish because your hurt wouldn't lead you to kill yourself
Selfish? I offered support and put it all on me, I said I couldnt explain why it got to me. I made myself vulnerable to you. I will rethink this in the future. Maybe it was bad timing but I dont know when the timing is good Deneb.
deneb it hurts that you would think this about me, I have spent enough time with you in open to think you'd know me better than that.Deneb the point was there was no trigger on that post, infact you had handled quite well and I was checking to see how you were. Had there been a trigger I probably wouldnt have read it. i accpet that that is my issue and that is why I babbled you. *I* was takin gresponsibiliity for *ME* asking you a favor. You could have replied and asked me? Instead the entire social board was disrupted regarding this.
i have a really good example of how to help you understand how peopple are triggered by certain things. I dont know if I can do this civilly but I will try, I have no feelings towards hamsters, none. So something to do with a hamster might not affect me one way or the other. But Im sure it would feel very different for you. i understand that. i understand that everyone has differnet values and beliefs. I understand that everyone gets upset over personalize issues. Hope that was ok.
I never ever said anything to lead you to believe that I would kill myself for being triggered by your post. Ever! and even if I had been *that* triggered, I would NEVER EVER tell someone or lead someone to believe that tehy were responsibile for my actions. We are all responsibile for our own actions and no one can drive another person to sucide! they cant. Im taking a much needed ativan now, becasue *I* have let myself get way too upset over this and *I* really dont need this right now.
I suppose... this thread was successful. Im sorry everyone that I babbled Deneb. It will never happen again.
Posted by rainbowbrite on October 15, 2005, at 13:05:18
In reply to Re: very frustrated » rainbowbrite, posted by crazy teresa on October 15, 2005, at 11:51:52
Thank you CT,
I will be. I need to get away from this and go out and clear my head.
It must be pms as well
Posted by crazy teresa on October 15, 2005, at 13:57:40
In reply to Re: very frustrated » crazy teresa, posted by rainbowbrite on October 15, 2005, at 13:05:18
We can't help you if you don't want to help yourself. There's just no way around this fact.
We have asked you repeatedly to get help. You choose not to. That is your choice, which I will respect.
In order to respect your choice, I will no longer post to you. I have tried to encourage you; yesterday I even tried some tough love, none of which motivated you to do what needs to be done.
I'm sorry you choose to suffer. (Yes, not getting help is the same as choosing to suffer.) It's come to the point where you seem to be mocking us because this has happened so frequently. I will no longer participate in whatever it is you're doing, be it unintentional or not.
Best of luck with your journey in life.
crazy teresa
Posted by Nickengland on October 15, 2005, at 14:00:47
In reply to Why I didn't reply to you » Nickengland, posted by Deneb on October 15, 2005, at 12:36:45
Hello Deneb
>Need to understand triggers and suicide
>I want to ask you guys a question and I need answers. I need to understand this. I'm not sure that I really understand it.
>Why is suicide such a trigger for people? I don't understand why people get so upset over this. It is *I* who will die, not *you*. I don't get upset when I read about methods. I don't get too upset when others mention suicide.
-------------------------------------------------
>Rainbowbite,
>I started this thread because I was angry at you for telling me to put triggers up when I was in such an obviously distraught state.
>Sorry I didn't reply to you. I was tired and didn't want to think.
Thats okay I understand.
>Deneb
I've noticed babble has been quiet recently but this thread got 95 posts in 2 days (I did just count, perhaps thats unhealthy lol)
After all this discussion of suicide and I suffer from bipolar disorder, I don't feel its healthy for me to think about this subject anymore, in this context. The thing is i'm just realising now what this thread is actually all about from the original first subject line.
Hope you understand I don't really want to talk about this anymore personally, as I feel its become abit unhealthy for myself reading this thread.
Hope the information helped, although had I'd known you'd started this thread because you was angry at rainbowbrite, I would have perhaps worded it differently and not gone into such detail to which you didn't respond because of the reasons which I can now see why.
Kind regards
Nick
Posted by Deneb on October 15, 2005, at 15:27:44
In reply to Re: Why I didn't reply to you » Deneb, posted by Nickengland on October 15, 2005, at 14:00:47
They don't have *any* ropes.
It must be the season change, no more boating supplies.
Bought something else instead.
Damn Walmart to hell
I smelled a familar scent today...that of death.
Posted by alexandra_k on October 15, 2005, at 15:47:32
In reply to F*ck Walmart, posted by Deneb on October 15, 2005, at 15:27:44
Ah. Seems there was a lot more going on than I thought. I'm sorry people. :-(
>I started this thread because I was angry at you for telling me to put triggers up when I was in such an obviously distraught state.
The trouble is... That Rainbow was in a distraught state too.
>To me it seemed like you just wanted to upset me even more and push me to suicide. Yes, I was that upset.
And to Rainbow your response seemed to ignore her distress completely...
And when that happens...
People will withdraw from you.> I thought that you were being selfish because your hurt wouldn't lead you to kill yourself,
You can't know that. Or... At the very least it is a dangerous assumption to be making.
> but your trying to alleviate your hurt could have possibility lead me to suicide and yet you still did it.
The trouble is... We can't prevent you killing yourself if that is what you really want to do. Even if you are doing it as a matter of principal. If you really are determined then there is nothing we can do.
And...
People do try and talk to you to help you see things a little more clearly. People do talk to you about what you can do to get help IRL. People do talk to you about how things aren't irrevokable and how you still do have a future etc.
But all that... Takes an immense amount of effort. And when you don't seem to be willing to help yourself when you don't seem to be willing to even contact your doctor or to take your meds regularly or to contact someone irl for help... Well... If you are determined then there is nothing we can do.
People only have so much energy...
People try and get outside their distress to reach out to you in yours. But you really do need to try and be sensitive to that. Sensitive to other peoples distress. If you ignore their distress, if you don't appreciate that when people try and reach out to you that that takes a lot of effort then I think you will find... That people will get fed up. And ignore your distress. And turn toward supporting other people in theirs, other people who are more sensitive to others distress, other people who are willing to implement some of those concrete suggestions in their real life.
I have always tried to support you as best I can...
But we can only do so much on the boards.
It is up to you.
What are you going to do?Go to your doctor.
Maybe have some time in hospital to get yourself together.
To get yourself established on your meds.> That is how badly I felt. It is selfish yes. That's all I can say.
It is hard to empathise with others when one is very upset. I understand that. But you need to learn to act empathetically to others despite whether you actually feel it or not. One can feel one way... And act different. It is hard... But sometimes... One needs to learn.
> There is no rhyme or reason to how I feel. I'm insane, remember that.
You are really stressed about mid terms and missing some mid terms. Its understandable to be feeling stressed about now. Whats problematic... Is the intensity of your distress and how that blinkers your vision.
> They don't have *any* ropes.
>
> It must be the season change, no more boating supplies.
>
> Bought something else instead.
>
> Damn Walmart to hell
>
> I smelled a familar scent today...that of death.I'm not going to respond to posts like that.
No more.Get some help IRL.
People have offered some really great suggestions to you.The choice is up to you...
I don't think you want to die
I think you want the pain to stop
I think you want to learn how to properly connect to others
I think you want to do things with your life and believe you are capable of doing themBut maybe you will choose to anyway.
I know you don't want the choice...
You want others to take it out of your hands
But other people can't save youIt is up to you...
Posted by alexandra_k on October 15, 2005, at 15:48:26
In reply to Re: very frustrated » crazy teresa, posted by rainbowbrite on October 15, 2005, at 13:05:18
i didn't know all that.
i apologise for being insensitive - i didn't know that other stuff was going on too.
Posted by NikkiT2 on October 15, 2005, at 15:57:18
In reply to F*ck Walmart, posted by Deneb on October 15, 2005, at 15:27:44
Deneb,
You cannot refuse to get help, and ten post something like this.
It worries us ALL terribly, and upsets us all terribly.
Please, I am actually begging you here, please ring your crisis centre.. call the hospital.. You *have* to tell someone other than us.
Please.
Nikki
Posted by Declan on October 15, 2005, at 15:58:19
In reply to F*ck Walmart, posted by Deneb on October 15, 2005, at 15:27:44
Why not read sylvia Plath instead. Or Dorothy Parker. I can never find my books, but...
'something something
nooses give
poison tastes awful
You might as well live.'But seriously, Lady Lazarus or Daddy.
'Ash ash you poke and stir
Flesh bone there is nothing there
a cake of soap, a gold filling, a wedding ring'Walmart of itself is a health hazard, no?
Declan
Posted by Deneb on October 15, 2005, at 16:22:55
In reply to F*ck Walmart, posted by Deneb on October 15, 2005, at 15:27:44
Posted by Deneb on October 15, 2005, at 16:24:44
In reply to Going to see pdoc on Weds, will prob. survive (nm), posted by Deneb on October 15, 2005, at 16:22:55
Posted by alexandra_k on October 15, 2005, at 18:39:22
In reply to Going to see pdoc on Weds, will prob. survive (nm), posted by Deneb on October 15, 2005, at 16:22:55
did you tell him that?
it would be better if he could see you BEFORE wednesday
Posted by Deneb on October 15, 2005, at 19:58:38
In reply to Re: this counts as an emergency, posted by alexandra_k on October 15, 2005, at 18:39:22
The p-doc appointment on Weds was booked 2 weeks ago. I think I should be OK.
I'm going to lay low for a while until things go back to normal for me and others.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]
Script revised: February 4, 2008
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Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
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