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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ralphrogers on April 30, 2012, at 20:25:54
It's maybe 30 minutes I'm fighting some depressive thoughts and something interesting came to my mind.
Well, if depression is like an epidemic spreading through society like a cold front taking over summer, maybe we are just in the middle of a different season of human development. Perhaps this is just a bad phase, and we got unlucky enough... or brave enough to be in charge to carry on and clear it.
I mean, I can't avoid being depressed. We have reasons for that right? But somehow everyday I try to fake it and smile and be nice to people. I care a lot about people but... hey, I want to be depressed. Can't avoid it... maybe it will never pass until I accept it fully. We can't lie to ourselves right?
Maybe society is deceiving us by saying that with medication we will just fool our minds and spirits in order to be happy. Perhaps this only generates more pain and disease. If depression is seen like a natural thing or process rather than a disease... it may vanish sooner?
If depression is a disease of a society, rather than of an individual, than maybe we are seeing things the wrong way? We don't have the cure, right? No easy fix for something so big and important as a whole society living an unhappy life.
C'mon, we are wonderful human beings. Why are we sad like this? What are we doing wrong? What's the climax for all this to blow away and a new golden era to flourish?
I hope I didn't depress you. But if I did, then we're two.
Ralph
Posted by zazenducke on May 2, 2012, at 9:33:37
In reply to Is depression like a society's phase?, posted by ralphrogers on April 30, 2012, at 20:25:54
That is an interesting way to look at it. That we're part of something bigger than ourselves. Maybe feeling the stirrings of a new age and frantically medicating everyone instead of welcoming the renaissance or the enlightenment?
> It's maybe 30 minutes I'm fighting some depressive thoughts and something interesting came to my mind.
>
> Well, if depression is like an epidemic spreading through society like a cold front taking over summer, maybe we are just in the middle of a different season of human development. Perhaps this is just a bad phase, and we got unlucky enough... or brave enough to be in charge to carry on and clear it.
>
> I mean, I can't avoid being depressed. We have reasons for that right? But somehow everyday I try to fake it and smile and be nice to people. I care a lot about people but... hey, I want to be depressed. Can't avoid it... maybe it will never pass until I accept it fully. We can't lie to ourselves right?
>
> Maybe society is deceiving us by saying that with medication we will just fool our minds and spirits in order to be happy. Perhaps this only generates more pain and disease. If depression is seen like a natural thing or process rather than a disease... it may vanish sooner?
>
> If depression is a disease of a society, rather than of an individual, than maybe we are seeing things the wrong way? We don't have the cure, right? No easy fix for something so big and important as a whole society living an unhappy life.
>
> C'mon, we are wonderful human beings. Why are we sad like this? What are we doing wrong? What's the climax for all this to blow away and a new golden era to flourish?
>
> I hope I didn't depress you. But if I did, then we're two.
>
> Ralph
>
Posted by SLS on May 3, 2012, at 7:00:28
In reply to Re: Is depression like a society's phase? » ralphrogers, posted by zazenducke on May 2, 2012, at 9:33:37
I am guessing that one factor influencing the epidemic of major depressive disorder (MDD) and anxiety disorders is the result of the increasing psychosocial stressors presented by living in a more complex and accelerated pace of life. I think it is a commentary on the health of society. In addition, I think it is important to take into consideration that reporting practices have changed since the advent of Prozac. After Prozac, it became less of a stigma to be depressed and take medication, and encouraged more people to seek treatment. It also increased the tendency of physicians to diagnose it. Is MDD over-diagnosed? Probably.
Depression (not MDD) has an important function in the healthy human psyche. It is, of course, the result of evolution. Even dogs get depressed. One function of depression is to disuade an individual from repeating a failed behavior - it helps prevent futility and the depletion of psychic energy and physiological resources. It encourages the individual to think or behave differently - hopefully in a more productive way. In addition, depression often precedes acceptance of conditions that the individual is unable to change.
A baby who is upset usually stops crying and falls asleep after awhile, even though nothing in its environment has changed. MDD is a derangement of the this otherwise normal human reaction to futility.
- Scott
Posted by sigismund on May 3, 2012, at 22:07:23
In reply to Re: Is depression like a society's phase? » zazenducke, posted by SLS on May 3, 2012, at 7:00:28
The end of the world atmosphere in Weimar Germany comes to mind. I have never read "Decline of the West" but would like to.
Posted by zazenducke on May 4, 2012, at 9:45:07
In reply to Re: Is depression like a society's phase?, posted by sigismund on May 3, 2012, at 22:07:23
Yes I was going to say that but I thought the specter of AH might be used by Big Pharma as a marketing ploy.
Posted by Phillipa on May 4, 2012, at 10:11:01
In reply to Re: Is depression like a society's phase? » zazenducke, posted by SLS on May 3, 2012, at 7:00:28
Scott exactly when I was saying to another yesterday about the stresses of society and how the folks in 90's today led simple lives with few choices of what they did with their days they just did it. Society is too complicated today, too many gadgets and pressure to get the newest, latest one, and then the frustration of not being able to learn how to use . The cutting back on jobs and the responsibility falling on one instead of 4 or 5. Life is different now. Maybe this is one reason some isolate. Phillipa
Posted by sigismund on May 4, 2012, at 21:31:00
In reply to Re: Is depression like a society's phase? » SLS, posted by Phillipa on May 4, 2012, at 10:11:01
The combination of a sense of entitlement and lots of choice (not much of it meaningful) has been problematic.
That is the rule of economists, maximising happiness by making available more choice.
Almost makes me nostalgic for communism where there was only one of everything if you were lucky.
Posted by ralphrogers on May 5, 2012, at 11:35:15
In reply to Re: Is depression like a society's phase?, posted by sigismund on May 4, 2012, at 21:31:00
I guess that as long as we have purpose and meaning in life we are able to have a fulfilling existence.
But maybe in general our old values and way of living got furiously replaced by values that make no sense to us.
Faith is certainly a sensitive matter. Science really shook the ground in which society was based. Maybe people didn't question much things and just had a simpler life way back.
I really believe depression may vanish as soon as an individual figures out a meaningful way of living his life. As John Sarno may wisely say, depression is a symptom, a way for our body telling us that something is not right. Medication can't fix that. It will only blunt people's emotions and stop symptoms. It works, but it will also blunt other aspects of the same person. A human losing all it's natural psychic beauty.
Then I know people that frantically changes medications trying to control symptoms. It's kinda crazy, when you see from this perspective, isn't it?
Really, I'm depressed with life. I'm healthy and mentally fine, but I find the world thoroughly depressing right now.
Ralph
Posted by ralphrogers on May 5, 2012, at 11:48:58
In reply to Re: Is depression like a society's phase? » ralphrogers, posted by zazenducke on May 2, 2012, at 9:33:37
I believe an individual can't be happy when he lives in an unhappy environment. Maybe it is what you said. What would happen if we just let people break down? A new renaissance? But first the economy would just blow up, because people would say "I can't take this", instead of just medicating and going to work.
The economy is ill, right? Symptoms first seen in individuals may take a bigger proportion and show up in a bigger context. And maybe the body is like that too. If you don't hear the voice of depression, then a more powerful symptom may arise, and it's your body saying "can you hear me now?".
> That is an interesting way to look at it. That we're part of something bigger than ourselves. Maybe feeling the stirrings of a new age and frantically medicating everyone instead of welcoming the renaissance or the enlightenment?
Posted by Raisinb on May 5, 2012, at 15:43:17
In reply to Re: Is depression like a society's phase? » zazenducke, posted by SLS on May 3, 2012, at 7:00:28
I have always been intrigued by the evolutionary view of depression. It seems to make sense in the context of a lot of circumstances that have triggered my depressive episodes. I also llke it because it recognizes the kernel of wisdom an illness might contain.
Posted by 64bowtie on May 7, 2012, at 17:24:04
In reply to Is depression like a society's phase?, posted by ralphrogers on April 30, 2012, at 20:25:54
We are all hardwired at birth to avoid danger... Some of us get that message all bollixed up and all our lives we act "cross-wired" and mistakenly avoid the wrong things, like "NOUNS" that are NEW to us; "nouns" are people, places, things, or ideas...
Some times we will fight to the death to avoid a new idea... Because of our limited awareness, the idea may seem toooo abstract for us... Or, someone new moves into our neighborhood who dresses funny to our eye; they must be avoided because we don't wear the same clothes???
Avoidance as a survival trait, mediates curiosity in childhood... Whereas in adulthood, chock full of "already-always-thinking", the tables have tuned so now we all could use a bit more curiosity... Therefore the proper corollary in adulthood is, help to avoid avoidance by embracing curiosity in all our affairs and ventures...
Depression is protected by DENIAL and INDECISION, teaming up to hold us hostage to the dictates of our childhood... By the time we are about 25 years old, we have worn the mantle of fledgling adulthood for about 10 years... By now most of us can talk the talk, as well as walk the walk as an adult... Curiosity will lead us to our personal power, shining the light of clarity on the very dim world of our depression...
Try curiosity; youll like it and yourself much better...
Posted by ron1953 on May 9, 2012, at 1:49:39
In reply to Is depression like a society's phase?, posted by ralphrogers on April 30, 2012, at 20:25:54
In our consumerist society, those who aren't on the bandwagon but want to be, are often depressed, or at least unhappy to be missing out on the good life. Many "successful" folks are miserable, too, despite all the stuff they have. But even if you can't have the lifestyle, they tell you there's medicine that'll make you feel OK about it. In any case the message is that we all can be happy if we do the right things, buy the right things, etc.. Yet look at all the suffering, and the meds only work a small percentage of the time, and often only temporarily at that. But the side-effects have a much better success rate. To me the desires and expectations are quite often unreleastic.
I'm not a Buddhist, but the four noble truths of Buddhism tell a very different story than ours.
1) Life as we know it ultimately is or leads to suffering/uneasiness (dukkha) in one way or another.
2) Suffering is caused by craving. This is often expressed as a deluded clinging to a certain sense of existence, to selfhood, or to the things or phenomena that we consider the cause of happiness or unhappiness. Craving also has its negative aspect, i.e. one craves that a certain state of affairs not exist.
3) Suffering ends when craving ends. This is achieved by eliminating delusion, thereby reaching a liberated state of Enlightenment (bodhi);
4) Reaching this liberated state is achieved by following the path laid out by the Buddha.Note that suffering is considered simply a real part of life, not something to be judged. Our society consider suffering an unwanted disease that must be eradicated. Good luck with that, along with the War on Drugs, and The War on Terror.
Maybe our society is simply effed up, and is unhealthy for more and more individuals.
Like I said, I'm not Buddhist, but I'm learning to accept suffering as a basic reality and not spend all of my energy trying to eradicate it. I may be suffering, but minus the drugs, side-effects, clueless yet arrogant doctors, etc., I suffer a little bit less, and I don't waste my limited energy and funds chasing the impossible.
Our parents and teachers rarely told us the truth, instead doing all they could to hide or sugarcoat the truth, under the approved umbrella of protecting the children. Father Knows Best was a TV show dammit, but the US is still trying to make us in that image.
What if we'd all been armed with the truth from the get-go? We would have had truly useful tools to navigate the BS, maybe even change some of it.
Posted by b2chica on May 23, 2012, at 13:10:50
In reply to Re: Is depression like a society's phase?, posted by ron1953 on May 9, 2012, at 1:49:39
thank you ron and ralph.
i really needed this today. i think its helped me swallow a bit of my own (little) sufferings today.b2c.
This is the end of the thread.
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