![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by obsidian on May 26, 2010, at 20:21:12
something has got to give
Posted by TherapyGirl on May 26, 2010, at 21:12:17
In reply to I hate my life, posted by obsidian on May 26, 2010, at 20:21:12
Right there with you, but I hate to hear you're in the same place.
(((((((((Sid)))))))))
Posted by jane d on May 26, 2010, at 21:40:06
In reply to I hate my life, posted by obsidian on May 26, 2010, at 20:21:12
> something has got to give
It's probably time to call the last med change unsuccessful. Can you call your doc?
Jane
Posted by obsidian on May 26, 2010, at 22:14:47
In reply to Re: I hate my life, posted by jane d on May 26, 2010, at 21:40:06
> > something has got to give
>
> It's probably time to call the last med change unsuccessful. Can you call your doc?
>
> Janeno, it's not that...it's my job, my finances
I am stuck, hopelessly stuck
all the meds in the world can't fix this
no one ever promised it would be easy, but no one ever said it would be this hard
thanks jane
Posted by obsidian on May 26, 2010, at 22:15:55
In reply to Re: I hate my life » obsidian, posted by TherapyGirl on May 26, 2010, at 21:12:17
> Right there with you, but I hate to hear you're in the same place.
>
> (((((((((Sid)))))))))(((((((((((therapy girl)))))))))
yeah, this sucks...
thanks
Posted by obsidian on May 26, 2010, at 23:25:56
In reply to I hate my life, posted by obsidian on May 26, 2010, at 20:21:12
I'm a little drunk, but big deal
meds become a way of acting out....let's throw them all out!
big deal, f*ck it
if I really act out I won't be able to afford the f*ck*ng things anyway
and then maybe I can do what I need to do which is to stop this b*llsh*t
Posted by jane d on May 26, 2010, at 23:58:11
In reply to I want to act out, but I'm not very good at it, posted by obsidian on May 26, 2010, at 23:25:56
Sometimes a little drunk is the best way to be. I'm sorry I don't have words that can make your pain go away right now. Do try to remember/believe that it does get better.
Posted by Dinah on May 27, 2010, at 6:31:40
In reply to I want to act out, but I'm not very good at it, posted by obsidian on May 26, 2010, at 23:25:56
I've always found the idea of acting out better than the reality of acting out.
I'm sorry you're feeling so bad and angry and trapped.
I believe that something has to give. Sometimes in a perfect storm the pressure builds high enough, and something is going to give.
So... What can give most safely? What's pressing in on you? What alternatives do you see? Your job? I know it's a lousy time for job hunting. Would knowing that escape is coming, and you don't have to work there forever help? What choices are open to you in your field?
Your creditors? I know this isn't the best time to deal with them either. But it is possible to try to work out something with them to help with the pressure. I didn't particularly like it myself, but would Debtors Anonymous be useful for you?
Your family? When my mother was at her worst last year, I made the decision that for my own mental health, I would have to walk away from the situation and if necessary from her. I know we owe a duty to our families, but we're not obliged to let their craziness drown us too. And we can't help if we're underwater ourselves.
I felt that way in my life for a long time. Still do sometimes. One thing that helped me was to think about making striking changes in my life, and realizing that they wouldn't really be changes for the better. Thinking of it as choosing this life rather than being trapped in it helped itself. But that admittedly took time.
I also opted for incremental changes. I keep my eyes open for signs that the stress is starting to overwhelm my ability to cope, and say so. Then I do what I need to do, at that point, to step back and build up my ability to cope. Because it really doesn't help anyone if I keep trying to soldier on. I've got an arsenal of ways to gain enough distance to re-enter the fray, and while none of them are terribly healthy they're aren't as self destructive as they used to be.
I also identified a few areas at work or home that cause me the most stress. I realized that part of what caused me the most stress was a tendency to struggle with things on my own, when communicating my difficulties to others would be so much less stressful. It was totally beyond my comprehension that I could tell people when I was scared or overwhelmed, or that I could ask those in authority what they'd prefer I do in a situation. Or, if I'm behind in a project my standard choice is to hide from everyone, but just telling them I'm running behind and letting them know where I'm at is actually preferable to them. Yet in my life at least, there are things like this that help. I still have trouble remembering that. A lot of trouble. I'm far more likely to keep my troubles to myself and keep trying to struggle through them, even if the struggle isn't as necessary as I think.
Those are things that help me, and they might not help you. But the point I'm trying to make is that even in the most helpless, miserable situation, I've found there are often ways to release pressure with relative safety. It's not easy, but the alternative is so unbearable that I keep trying to muster my courage.
And if it's too much at this moment to consider the bigger picture, how can you let off enough steam in the immediate future to feel able to continue? Does screaming help for you? Or beating a pillow? My therapist always suggested it, and I can't imagine doing it, but it must be helpful for some. Does getting mildly drunk (not enough to make the real situation even worse of course) help? My forgetting sleeps help sometimes in the immediate future. Or playing Bubbles or Bejeweled until I'm in a trance. Or Risperdal as needed. If you call your pdoc, do you think he could help?
I hope things feel more bearable for you soon. As Jane said, you will feel better than this.
Posted by tetrix on May 27, 2010, at 9:29:21
In reply to I hate my life, posted by obsidian on May 26, 2010, at 20:21:12
same here, even my T told me she can't help me
Posted by deerock on May 27, 2010, at 14:50:04
In reply to Re: I hate my life, posted by tetrix on May 27, 2010, at 9:29:21
why did your T say that?
Posted by tetrix on May 27, 2010, at 20:58:50
In reply to Re: I hate my life » tetrix, posted by deerock on May 27, 2010, at 14:50:04
I told her that I am not feeling better and I dont know why therapy isnt helping me.. i wanted a bit of reassurance, a bit of hang in there rethoric but it blew in my face.
Posted by obsidian on May 27, 2010, at 21:27:09
In reply to Re: I want to act out, but I'm not very good at it » obsidian, posted by Dinah on May 27, 2010, at 6:31:40
> I've always found the idea of acting out better than the reality of acting out.
>
> I'm sorry you're feeling so bad and angry and trapped.
>
> I believe that something has to give. Sometimes in a perfect storm the pressure builds high enough, and something is going to give.
>
> So... What can give most safely? What's pressing in on you? What alternatives do you see? Your job? I know it's a lousy time for job hunting. Would knowing that escape is coming, and you don't have to work there forever help? What choices are open to you in your field?
>
> Your creditors? I know this isn't the best time to deal with them either. But it is possible to try to work out something with them to help with the pressure. I didn't particularly like it myself, but would Debtors Anonymous be useful for you?
>
> Your family? When my mother was at her worst last year, I made the decision that for my own mental health, I would have to walk away from the situation and if necessary from her. I know we owe a duty to our families, but we're not obliged to let their craziness drown us too. And we can't help if we're underwater ourselves.
>
> I felt that way in my life for a long time. Still do sometimes. One thing that helped me was to think about making striking changes in my life, and realizing that they wouldn't really be changes for the better. Thinking of it as choosing this life rather than being trapped in it helped itself. But that admittedly took time.
>
> I also opted for incremental changes. I keep my eyes open for signs that the stress is starting to overwhelm my ability to cope, and say so. Then I do what I need to do, at that point, to step back and build up my ability to cope. Because it really doesn't help anyone if I keep trying to soldier on. I've got an arsenal of ways to gain enough distance to re-enter the fray, and while none of them are terribly healthy they're aren't as self destructive as they used to be.
>
> I also identified a few areas at work or home that cause me the most stress. I realized that part of what caused me the most stress was a tendency to struggle with things on my own, when communicating my difficulties to others would be so much less stressful. It was totally beyond my comprehension that I could tell people when I was scared or overwhelmed, or that I could ask those in authority what they'd prefer I do in a situation. Or, if I'm behind in a project my standard choice is to hide from everyone, but just telling them I'm running behind and letting them know where I'm at is actually preferable to them. Yet in my life at least, there are things like this that help. I still have trouble remembering that. A lot of trouble. I'm far more likely to keep my troubles to myself and keep trying to struggle through them, even if the struggle isn't as necessary as I think.
>
> Those are things that help me, and they might not help you. But the point I'm trying to make is that even in the most helpless, miserable situation, I've found there are often ways to release pressure with relative safety. It's not easy, but the alternative is so unbearable that I keep trying to muster my courage.
>
> And if it's too much at this moment to consider the bigger picture, how can you let off enough steam in the immediate future to feel able to continue? Does screaming help for you? Or beating a pillow? My therapist always suggested it, and I can't imagine doing it, but it must be helpful for some. Does getting mildly drunk (not enough to make the real situation even worse of course) help? My forgetting sleeps help sometimes in the immediate future. Or playing Bubbles or Bejeweled until I'm in a trance. Or Risperdal as needed. If you call your pdoc, do you think he could help?
>
> I hope things feel more bearable for you soon. As Jane said, you will feel better than this.Thanks Dinah for your very thoughtful post. :-)
I feel so out of control, taken advantage of, judged and discarded, shamed and angry. I also feel like I am being told that I have no right to be angry.
Things being triggered from the past :-(
I keep fantasizing about yelling at people, but it'll do me no good of course. (sigh)
I'm short on coping skills right now, but I did see my T, so perhaps I'll avert some otherwise destructive actions.
I do need to step back....
I do want to withdraw. I'm too overwhelmed.
a nice cave somewhere sounds great
physically of course I have to show up, I wish I could just space out, but the circumstances won't permit it.
extra klonopin perhaps,just to take the edge off?...will call pdoc
thanks,
sid
Posted by obsidian on May 27, 2010, at 21:29:56
In reply to Re: I want to act out, but I'm not very good at it » obsidian, posted by jane d on May 26, 2010, at 23:58:11
> Sometimes a little drunk is the best way to be. I'm sorry I don't have words that can make your pain go away right now. Do try to remember/believe that it does get better.
It's alright jane, your simply responding helps
does it get better? funny how we forget
I can't remember now, maybe in a little while
Posted by obsidian on May 27, 2010, at 21:31:44
In reply to Re: I hate my life, posted by tetrix on May 27, 2010, at 9:29:21
> same here, even my T told me she can't help me
oh tetrix, I'm sorry
that sounds like it could really hurt :-(
((((tetrix))))
Posted by sigismund on May 28, 2010, at 0:14:16
In reply to Re: I want to act out, but I'm not very good at it » jane d, posted by obsidian on May 27, 2010, at 21:29:56
>does it get better?
You could be desperately hoping for it to get better. Or you could not give a flying f*ck what it did, which clearly would be different, because then you would have hope inside you, rather than wishing things would get better.
I can remember when I was 17 or so, I was with a girlfriend, and we went into a shop and she was perceptive (fat good it did her) enough to say after 'You were frightened' in a fairly neutral way. I don't think that has changed much at all in 40 years. (It's like they say of jobs though....the first ten years are the worst.) The way I organise myself (for want of a better description), by which I mean maybe the extent to which I accept myself, has.
Posted by sigismund on May 28, 2010, at 2:57:07
In reply to Re: I want to act out, but I'm not very good at it » obsidian, posted by sigismund on May 28, 2010, at 0:14:16
Actually, it has to be said (and this might not be the right thread).... It doesn't get better; it gets worse. But you get better at dealing with it.
I'm at the stage of life where we get to do 'Who dies next?'
So long as it doesn't get inside you.
Posted by Dinah on May 28, 2010, at 6:19:14
In reply to Re: I want to act out, but I'm not very good at it » sigismund, posted by sigismund on May 28, 2010, at 2:57:07
That's not my experience, Sigi. My experience is more that it gets better. Then it gets worse again. Then it gets better again. etc. But that maybe you do get better at dealing with it.
Or maybe you just grow accustomed, and understand the process better.
Mind you, I'm a wreck right now. It's just that while I'm a wreck right now, part of me is trying to figure out how to best hold on without making matters worse until I'm not a wreck again. Of course, ask me later in the day and my answer might be different. I think I need someplace to be where I can escape sensory stimuli for long enough to regroup.
I'm sorry that you're on a trend of things getting worse. It's always been a bit reassuring to me that whatever I'm feeling right now, I can be guaranteed to feel something completely different before too long.
Posted by sigismund on May 29, 2010, at 18:38:26
In reply to Re: I want to act out, but I'm not very good at it » sigismund, posted by Dinah on May 28, 2010, at 6:19:14
On a radio philosophy show this existentialist/phenomenologist was talking about the experience of illness and the way it is dealt with by the medical profession (capacities lost), and she mentioned that aspect of your feeling, how you feel in yourself, and was arguing that if that is OK, debility/pain/illness is bearable.
Certainly one's body gets worse (after what? 36?), one's mind goes downhill in memory at my age, and many ageing people experience the decay of the flesh and blood brain (anxiety, mood disorders), but many older people show a kindness and forbearance. I wonder if you can learn how to keep something safe? The Christian religion is full of references to unchangeable things, things you can rely on. Perhaps Buddhism makes a virtue of not providing any unchangeable things? But they say they take refuge in if not the Dharma then something else...perhaps the Sangha, the community?
Posted by deerock on May 29, 2010, at 18:53:58
In reply to Re: I want to act out, but I'm not very good at it, posted by sigismund on May 29, 2010, at 18:38:26
buddhism says to take refuse in the dharma the sangha and the buddha. i think this means take refuge in the reality that self does not exist, take reference in the community of people who are trying to get beyond themselves and take refuge in the fact that the buddha overcame these things.
the only real thing buddhists take refuge in is awareness and this awareness shows that nothing is permament so in a buddhist sense, you cant really take refuge in anything other than awareness itself.
Posted by sigismund on May 29, 2010, at 19:56:40
In reply to Re: I want to act out, but I'm not very good at it » sigismund, posted by deerock on May 29, 2010, at 18:53:58
>i think this means take refuge in the reality that self does not exist
Sounds very Buddhist. When they talk about the emptiness of phenomena, maybe that's what they mean? My nephew is going to a Buddhist university in Kathmandu and I'm going along. Should be fun. That and talking about Maoists.
Posted by sigismund on May 29, 2010, at 19:58:53
In reply to Re: I want to act out, but I'm not very good at it » deerock, posted by sigismund on May 29, 2010, at 19:56:40
If I don't exist, how is it that I suffer?
Ignorance of my non-existence?
All these non-existent people suffering away together.
Posted by Willful on May 29, 2010, at 23:00:36
In reply to Re: I want to act out, but I'm not very good at it, posted by sigismund on May 29, 2010, at 19:58:53
Buddhism, at least in the version that I've had contact with, doesn't say the self doesn't exist at all, at least in any simple sense. It suggests that the self is much more fluid, and indefinite than we normally consider it. It involves an ongoing presence to whatever you feel, or are aware of-- in the moment, although there is also a sense of continuity over time that you also feel. The continuity is not of a stable, unchanging self, but one that is malleable, adaptable, and varied. At one moment, you may experience yourself as angry, or powerful, or you may experience yourself in other ways at other times.
I don't think people take refuge in an idea of nothingness or of no-self. They take refuge in awareness and presence to and in the moment-- of whatever they are experiencing-- and they also find refuge in practicing according to the the teachings of the Buddha (or those of his teachings that were written down centuries after his life) and in the wisdom of the the understandings of it that have developed over time. Also there is refuge in the sangha, or community of those who also are practicing these teachings and attempting to live in a way consistent with them.
There isn't a contradiction between the idea of suffering and the idea of a presence and awareness-- or of the ability of these things to relieve suffering, even if there is pain. If you think of suffering that those aspects of consciousness that are added by the way we think of painful things in life-- those beliefs and attitudes and thoughts that magnify and revisit pain on onself--you can see that buddhism offers to relieve suffering, but not to eliminate pain, which is an inevitable part of life.
At least that's what I've heard experienced people say.
Willful
Posted by deerock on May 29, 2010, at 23:04:32
In reply to Re: I want to act out, but I'm not very good at it, posted by sigismund on May 29, 2010, at 19:58:53
yup. you suffer bec. u think it is you who are suffering. as opposed to there is suffering. when you personalize the suffering, you suffer.
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 31, 2010, at 8:01:25
In reply to Re: I want to act out, but I'm not very good at it » sigismund, posted by deerock on May 29, 2010, at 18:53:58
> Perhaps Buddhism makes a virtue of not providing any unchangeable things? But they say they take refuge in if not the Dharma then something else...perhaps the Sangha, the community?
>
> sigismund> buddhism says to take [refuge] in the dharma the sangha and the buddha. i think this means take refuge in the reality that self does not exist, take [refuge] in the community of people who are trying to get beyond themselves and take refuge in the fact that the buddha overcame these things.
>
> deerockThis community is certainly changeable, but I'd be pleased if it could serve as a refuge for some people, Buddhist or not.
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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