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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Marie Box on April 26, 2010, at 1:48:27
Hi, everybody. I messaged on here only a couple of times before, but now I'm back. Sorry to just drop in here with these questions.
I haven't been to therapy for a couple of weeks, and I've really enjoyed the time away from it. I'm functioning fairly well, and I'm much happier and less obsessive & anxious.
This makes me feel like I am ready to stop therapy altogether, but I feel caught. I am unhappy whenever I go to see my therapist; I think I care about her and want to be close to her, but I also resent her and want to push her away. I feel like if I'm "ready" to leave therapy then I should be able to go to a session and tell her that, but I really don't want to; I just want to stop going.
I think I don't want to talk to her because I feel like I am keeping secrets from her, and I know I've lied to her in the past. If I go to another session with her, I'll feel the need to tell her all of the stuff I've kept from her, or for some reason, I'll feel dishonest and scared. Like I HAVE to tell my therapist everything and "confess" everything, even if it isn't relevant to anything that I feel like I need to work on.
I guess I just feel locked in this cycle with my therapist. We're not getting anything done, and I don't really feel like I need help with anything, but at the same time, I don't want to let her go and I want to have an authentic relationship with her and tell her all this stuff. The past few sessions, I've just sat and sort of deflected questions and felt uncomfortable. I feel like my therapist doesn't know what to do to make this better, which just sort of reaffirms--in my mind--that therapy isn't really working.
I guess this isn't really a question so much as a rant. I feel stuck and don't really know what to do. I don't want to go to therapy anymore because I hate that "stuck" feeling, you know?
Posted by rnny on April 26, 2010, at 16:29:54
In reply to Want to quit, but do I need to 'fess up, first?, posted by Marie Box on April 26, 2010, at 1:48:27
Although some people see it as such (like me periodically), going to a T is not the same as going to a confessional. You are under no moral or ethical obligation to confess anything to your T. One time I told my old T that I needed some time off. I wanted to see how far I could fly on my own. She was very agreeable to the arrangement and explained to me that not all therapy is one big stretch of sessions and then it is over. For some people taking time off and coming back works better. The time off can be weeks, months or years. During that time if you decide you want to formally "terminate" therapy, you can. But you can always change your mind and go back too.Even if you decide to terminate. If you do decide to terminate and not take time off, go in and have a talk. You can end it that day or take as many sessions as you need to say "goodbye". But don't use your termination sessions to make confessions or get counseling on new or existing issues. Terminating therapy is about just that. So use the time wisely so you have no regrets. Just my 2 cents.
Posted by Dinah on April 26, 2010, at 19:25:16
In reply to Want to quit, but do I need to 'fess up, first?, posted by Marie Box on April 26, 2010, at 1:48:27
I think it's fine, if you're doing ok and don't need therapy anymore, to call and say that, or maybe to briefly discuss the possibility of returning if you ever feel the need.
I also doubt there's any need to tell your therapist everything, if it's not related to the issue you're working on.
But some of what I'm getting from your post, and I could be totally wrong, is that you feel stuck and don't think therapy is working. And if something is really irrelevant, would there be a need to lie about it? That seems to me to have slightly different overtones?
Have the issues that brought you to therapy been largely resolved? Or at least resolved enough that you feel that therapy is no longer needed?
Only you know if it's time to terminate, or time to take a break, or time to find a new therapist, or if there is something that you haven't been ready to address. What does your gut tell you?
Posted by Marie Box on May 1, 2010, at 15:59:29
In reply to Want to quit, but do I need to 'fess up, first?, posted by Marie Box on April 26, 2010, at 1:48:27
Thank you SO MUCH for responding. I feel like this place is keeping me sane (well, as sane as I can be! aha).
My initial goals in therapy related to alleviating physical symptoms and taking care of academic struggles.
Later on, though, I do remember redefining them as desiring to build trust in myself, in others, and in the world in general. Pretty vague, right?
I do think trust is an issue for me. Strangely enough, I have grown increasingly open with people in my life, but I am still very reluctant to be open with my therapist.
I think I may be fighting off some pretty strong transference feelings. The more consistently and positively she responds to me and my secrets that I drop in every once in a while, the more grateful, caring, and needy I feel towards her. I think I am embarrassed by how strong my reactions to her are, and also embarrassed about some perceived flaws in myself, and I don't want her to know any of this.
Like, right now, I feel warm inside and very comfortingly (yet alarmingly) emotional in response to her, since I saw her recently. But sometimes its the opposite of that--I really devalue her, or I just simply dismiss her. After seeing her so many times, I'm sure she notices this. She comments on my ambivalence towards her and towards therapy a lot.
I wouldn't mind feeling positive feelings towards her if they didn't take me over so entirely outside of therapy.
I still refused to schedule an official appointment again, even though she encouraged me, too. Though, I know I will. Am I being passive-aggressive, or what? Sheesh.
Posted by Marie Box on May 2, 2010, at 23:26:05
In reply to Re: Want to quit, but do I need to 'fess up, first?, posted by Marie Box on May 1, 2010, at 15:59:29
Ahgh, sorry, I just won't stop dwelling on this.
I think that I do look up to my therapist as somewhat of a mother-figure (a role model? a mentor?), and I want to confide in her, be nurtured by her, and make her proud of me.
I want to know that she loves me, too, but not like a mother or a love interest or anything. Just that she does care about me and feel a little protective about me and she is invested in my well-being. Like... maybe she COULD actually be proud of me. A little bit. You know? Is that out of line?
I don't want to think that she is cold and removed and totally unaffected by me. That she's a robot. That the greatest capacity for feelings that she could have towards me is maybe just boredom or annoyance. If a therapist can feel boredom or annoyance in response to a patient, could a therapist feel warmth, pride, and caring? I know that she has a life outside of me (duh), and I would never want to have the power to control her happiness or overall well-being (that's too scary and too much responsibility), but it's so hard to think that I could care so much about her and I don't matter to her at all.
I'm afraid to tell her about any of this because I'm afraid that she'll tell me she can't work with me anymore. Because I know that the only way I know how to present it at the moment is that "Therapy sucks and it takes over my thoughts and I don't think it's good for me and I don't think I should do it anymore because I become too preoccupied with it/you." And I'm afraid she'll say, "Why, yes, you are right," instead of, "It's okay to care about me. I care about you, but not in any way that could negatively impact you, me, or the therapy we have together. I can handle your feelings, and I want to be there for you, and I'm glad that you feel these positive feelings for me because I think that's a good sign that therapy could be working." Would the latter be hoping for too much?
I hate how much I think about this and I'm mad at myself for letting this happen and I'm mad at my therapist for letting this happen, even though neither one of us probably has much control over it. Though, I could probably control how much I think about it--because when I'm really sucked in, I start to think about it all the time.
I feel so foolish, but she's giving me--the REAL me, not the fake me--all the things that I've wanted for so long. I just don't know what to do with it or where to go next. It is scary and painful for me, so I pull back and withdraw and devalue her. And then I feel guilty about that, too. Because she's great (though DEFINITELY not perfect and sometimes a little hokey and irritating. but I get what she is trying to do.).
Ahhhghhhhhh.
Posted by Dinah on May 3, 2010, at 6:55:16
In reply to Re: Want to quit, but do I need to 'fess up, first?, posted by Marie Box on May 2, 2010, at 23:26:05
I don't think it's too much to ask at all. Many Babblers have said similar things to our therapists and received sensitive and therapeutic replies. There may have been rare exceptions, but those say more about the therapist and their therapeutic orientation than they do about the client. You know your therapist best. Does she seem like she would respond insensitively?
Can you say these things to her? Or bring this post in for her to read? I know I did that a lot at one point, and still do sometimes.
I don't think your feelings are anything you need to hide from her. They are perfectly normal and understandable under the circumstances. With the right therapist exploring those feelings can be part of therapy, not a distraction from it.
Posted by Marie Box on May 5, 2010, at 2:35:43
In reply to Re: Want to quit, but do I need to 'fess up, first? » Marie Box, posted by Dinah on May 3, 2010, at 6:55:16
Mrrrhhhghh. Everyone always suggest bringing something in writing. I did that to a psychiatrist once, and she basically just told me she didn't have the time to address any of it, and I was really embarrassed. I confessed a lot that I had never told anyone else, and so I felt really dismissed when she wouldn't go through it.
On top of that, my therapist has never once suggested that I write something down and bring it into session. She never suggests ANYthing. At the beginning, she would give me some therapy "homework," but now she has completely stopped doing that. She is very non-directive, only "suggesting" things to talk about if I tell her in a session beforehand that I want her to. It drives me crazy, but I don't want to say anything because I don't want to talk about myself or let her know that I care. I'm afraid that by asking I'm going to "reveal" all of this stuff about myself to her. I'm basically paranoid that I have no defenses against her other than silence, flat affect, and feigned detachment. I know that this is very all-or-nothing but I am afraid of--what? I don't know. Why would I care if she knows me? Why do I feel this need to hide and protect myself?
I know that I am acting out some. I lie, and skip sessions, and self-injure. But I keep going to see her. It's so stupid. I'm afraid to confront and be confronted.
I also read about psychology and psychotherapy all. the. freakin'. time. Why do I do this? I waste, seriously, like 2-7 hours per day researching stuff. Sometimes it feels compulsive. I don't want to tell her what I think about it though because I don't want to tell her what I feel is the truth and then be wrong. It hurts too badly.
I have no idea how much my therapist knows about all of this. She must know that SOMETHING is going on. Gah. Why won't she say anything? Why is she so non-directive? Why doesn't she ask me why I do things that she MUST notice that I do, such as avoid expressing sadness or embarrassment, or refuse to pick a topic for session, or whatever. What is she waiting for? This total lack of direction and input wasn't her style in the past; I don't understand why it changed. I wish I had the guts to ask her :( I hate this :(
Posted by Dinah on May 5, 2010, at 7:25:50
In reply to Re: Want to quit, but do I need to 'fess up, first?, posted by Marie Box on May 5, 2010, at 2:35:43
My therapist is also nondirective, and sometimes it irritates the heck out of me. But for the most part I think it's a recognition on his part that I don't respond well to pushing.
I understand that your experience with your psychiatrist would be offputting. But psychiatrists are (often) not therapists. My psychiatrist never wants to know more than a brief and preferably clinical statement about my mood, and a list of side effects.
My therapist used to have me read aloud the things I brought into him, because he didn't want me to use writing as a way to avoid emotional contact in session. But he did appreciate my being more open, however I went about it.
One of the most important lessons I learned in therapy is that my therapist can't read my mind. He's not even that great at reading my emotions. He's not going to understand what I communicate to him by my actions or my attitudes. Even if he does understand that something is going on, likely as not he'll be wrong as to what it is. I need to tell him what's going on with me, and likely explain it more than once or explain what I need from him.
That's been surprisingly helpful to me.
It's also been helpful to me to talk to him about my feelings about what's going on in the room. So if I'm feeling frustrated that he's not directive, I'll say exactly that. Or if I'm afraid to let him know me, really know me, then I say that.
In particular, I think I'd be champing at the bit to know why he'd changed therapeutic style with me. My assumption would be that he thought it wasn't working well with me, but I think I'd like to know what he's doing now and why he thinks it will work better.
All this sounds sort of silly, but since therapy helps me learn to regulate my emotions, helps me with my emotional intelligence, all of these discussions become the very meat of the therapeutic process. What am I feeling? What do I need? Am I interpreting his silence in a way that isn't in my best interests, and that isn't true? Does how I interpret his actions and words reflect a general trend of how I see others?
It is difficult, and that's why small steps like bringing in writing can help at first. It gets easier over time.
(Also, I used to read obsessively about psychology for a long time. It's passed, I think. Or perhaps I just found those readings that were helpful to me.)
Posted by lingonberry on May 5, 2010, at 10:18:03
In reply to Re: Want to quit, but do I need to 'fess up, first?, posted by Marie Box on May 5, 2010, at 2:35:43
Mrrrhhhghh. Everyone always suggest bringing something in writing. I did that to a psychiatrist once, and she basically just told me she didn't have the time to address any of it, and I was really embarrassed. I confessed a lot that I had never told anyone else, and so I felt really dismissed when she wouldn't go through it.
Sorry you have to go through this. That sucks! Really! It was not an appropriate way to handle the situation. I know it hurts but her lack of interest has nothing to do with you. Dont interpret that as a proof of your needs being bad or wrong, because they are not.
On top of that, my therapist has never once suggested that I write something down and bring it into session. She never suggests ANYthing. At the beginning, she would give me some therapy "homework," but now she has completely stopped doing that. She is very non-directive, only "suggesting" things to talk about if I tell her in a session beforehand that I want her to. It drives me crazy, but I don't want to say anything because I don't want to talk about myself or let her know that I care. I'm afraid that by asking I'm going to "reveal" all of this stuff about myself to her. I'm basically paranoid that I have no defenses against her other than silence, flat affect, and feigned detachment. I know that this is very all-or-nothing but I am afraid of--what? I don't know. Why would I care if she knows me? Why do I feel this need to hide and protect myself?
Therapists have different approaches. My T is also very non-directive. I think most T´s in the psychodynamic fields are. Its not like regular counselling or coaching. They want you to listen to your self, to observe whats going on inside of you when you dont get what you need. Probably, you have not got what you needed from your parents and thats the reason you are in therapy. You are afraid of your needs, remembering deep inside what happened in the past when you expressed them. But your T will NOT meet you in the same way as your parent did. Therefore, you have to acknowledge your needs, talk about them with your T, telling her that you feel ashamed of having those needs and that you are afraid that no one will ever listening to you or satisfy them. She will be thrilled if you will be able to speak up. Our needs are not wrong, our parents way of handling our needs was wrong. Not the needs per se. Thats what you have to learn in therapy.
I know that I am acting out some. I lie, and skip sessions, and self-injure. But I keep going to see her. It's so stupid. I'm afraid to confront and be confronted.
You are not stupid. I think youre afraid. The little child within you are so afraid of meeting her parents again if she express her need to T, ie. of being rejected again. We are so primed for rejection and disaster. Its okay to be afraid. I did that too. I was SO afraid of trusting my T. I had a tremendous resistance to become dependent on him. But you can trust your T. She cares about you, even if you yet dont realize it.
I also read about psychology and psychotherapy all. the. freakin'. time. Why do I do this? I waste, seriously, like 2-7 hours per day researching stuff. Sometimes it feels compulsive. I don't want to tell her what I think about it though because I don't want to tell her what I feel is the truth and then be wrong. It hurts too badly.
Me too! Before I learned to trust my T I checked up on him by learning about what to expect from psychotherapy, so I know he did the right thing. LOL. For me, it was about control. I had a feeling of being out of control, not being able to defend myself; I couldn´t trust my gut feelings, fear of confrontation and so on. I think I have read almost anything worth knowing about Psychotherapy. Its pretty exhausting.
I have no idea how much my therapist knows about all of this. She must know that SOMETHING is going on. Gah. Why won't she say anything? Why is she so non-directive? Why doesn't she ask me why I do things that she MUST notice that I do, such as avoid expressing sadness or embarrassment, or refuse to pick a topic for session, or whatever. What is she waiting for? This total lack of direction and input wasn't her style in the past; I don't understand why it changed. I wish I had the guts to ask her :( I hate this :(
I think she is acting this way out of concern for you. She knows you are afraid. Trust me, she knows and she respects you enough to not rip you off your defence. It takes a lot from a T to just sit still in the boat while watching a client hurting themselves, knowing that you will go on until you are ready to take a deep look at yourself and start to talk to your T. She is still with you, arent she?´She is listening to you, caring about you but you need to se that.
Maybe you can start to tell your T that you have something you need to talk to her about, but you are so embarrassed or afraid and ask her for helping you and see whats happening. Or, maybe you need a T with a different approach. Only you can know.
I hope things will work out for you!
Take care!
Lingonberry
Posted by workinprogress on May 6, 2010, at 1:03:04
In reply to Re: Want to quit, but do I need to 'fess up, first?, posted by Marie Box on May 5, 2010, at 2:35:43
> Mrrrhhhghh. Everyone always suggest bringing something in writing. I did that to a psychiatrist once, and she basically just told me she didn't have the time to address any of it, and I was really embarrassed. I confessed a lot that I had never told anyone else, and so I felt really dismissed when she wouldn't go through it.
Oh Marie... I wish I could reach out and give you a big hug! I so understand and empathize with so much of what you wrote. Clearly, given what others have said, this is all such a natural part of the process and not "unusual" or "weird" or "wrong". But I for one remember really worrying about all that. I really was very afraid of the relationship... very confused by what I was feeling... and felt very alone. My friends wouldn't understand and I didn't trust my T enough to talk to her openly. So guess what... I read all kinds of psychotherapy stuff too! And I found this board. I'm glad you're here....
>
> On top of that, my therapist has never once suggested that I write something down and bring it into session. She never suggests ANYthing. At the beginning, she would give me some therapy "homework," but now she has completely stopped doing that. She is very non-directive, only "suggesting" things to talk about if I tell her in a session beforehand that I want her to. It drives me crazy, but I don't want to say anything because I don't want to talk about myself or let her know that I care. I'm afraid that by asking I'm going to "reveal" all of this stuff about myself to her. I'm basically paranoid that I have no defenses against her other than silence, flat affect, and feigned detachment. I know that this is very all-or-nothing but I am afraid of--what? I don't know. Why would I care if she knows me? Why do I feel this need to hide and protect myself?
I just got done with a yoga class. They said "the pain you feel is weakness leaving your body". I think you could connect that to therapy too... I can be a very painful process, but it makes you stronger, in less pain, and more able to handle pain in the future. The more you can talk to your T about what you're feeling, your questions, your concerns.. the better. I find that my best, most useful and healing conversations are when we talk about "us" and what's going on between us and in my head. Being able to not filter is so helpful, but it takes TIME and patience to build that trust. Initially, I found reading my journals really helped a lot.>
> I know that I am acting out some. I lie, and skip sessions, and self-injure. But I keep going to see her. It's so stupid. I'm afraid to confront and be confronted.
You're not stupid. You're afraid. Being open and honest and vulnerable with someone is scary, very scary. But, your therapist is on your team. The more you can share with her what's going on inside, the more she can help you do what's most kind for yourself. One thing I always have to remind myself... they can't read our minds. They seem magical, but they actually can't do that... ;)>
> I also read about psychology and psychotherapy all. the. freakin'. time. Why do I do this? I waste, seriously, like 2-7 hours per day researching stuff. Sometimes it feels compulsive. I don't want to tell her what I think about it though because I don't want to tell her what I feel is the truth and then be wrong. It hurts too badly.
I'm still learning this one... but my T says there isn't right and wrong- no secret rulebook that she's holding. But, it sounds like researching therapy is a very common pastime amongst us therapy goers (I find it relieving to hear that too!!!)... I think Lingonberry is onto something in saying it's about "checking up on" our Ts... and trying to equalize the power a little bit. They have a LOT of power. My T reminds me of that (and how very careful she is with it) from time to time. It makes sense to me that we want to know what's going on in this mysterious process.>
> I have no idea how much my therapist knows about all of this. She must know that SOMETHING is going on. Gah. Why won't she say anything? Why is she so non-directive? Why doesn't she ask me why I do things that she MUST notice that I do, such as avoid expressing sadness or embarrassment, or refuse to pick a topic for session, or whatever. What is she waiting for? This total lack of direction and input wasn't her style in the past; I don't understand why it changed. I wish I had the guts to ask her :( I hate this :(
>
I know... it's SO hard to get up the courage to start these conversations. But, I can almost guarantee you you'll feel better when you do. I found so much comfort and relief in those conversations. The stories I made up in my head were torture. Not only were my conversations with my T not torture, they were healing. I replayed them in my head over and over again. They were like a healing salve for my self-inflicted wounds. I know it's hard to believe. And believe me, I know how scary it is.... but I can't encourage you enough to have the conversation with her- maybe just a piece at a time- about some of the things you're said here.
(((((Marie Box)))))))))
Posted by Marie Box on May 11, 2010, at 18:55:41
In reply to Re: Want to quit, but do I need to 'fess up, first? » Marie Box, posted by Dinah on May 5, 2010, at 7:25:50
I just find most everything about therapy to be humiliating. I have definitely made progress outside of the therapy room; I have opened up more, cried to people close to me, expressed what I want/need from people. But I just close up with my therapist. It's like I don't want to be emotionally open with her because she knows what a big deal it is--because she understands the struggle behind it--and it feels like breaking down or admitting defeat after struggling for so long.
I am mortified that I can't contain these emotional responses to her enough for them not to interfere with therapy. The longings and gratitude that I feel, and the self-attacks and self-loathing that follow--they are just so painful. And I can't figure out if it's worthwhile because the only time my life really feels like its going down the tubes is when I feel these things, which is only after I reach out to her for help and she responds. And the idea of saying all of this to her, and even having her respond appropriately...it seems like it would just throw me overboard into a sea when I don't have the strength to swim. But I don't know what else to do. It just feels like there's no solution.
It is nice to hear that you all research psychology stuff too! I have quite a collection of internet bookmarks now.
Also, Dinah, thanks for telling me about how your therapist can't read your mind. I haven't been sure how much I'm supposed to expect out of my therapist; it makes me feel better knowing that it's pretty normal for a therapist to need things explained out in explicit detail.
In my head, I really think that I just wanted to tell her, "Well, it looks like I've grown attached to you." But that's so embarrassing because of all of what she probably knows that could entail. And if she doesn't know, I'm sure she'll ask me to explain.
I skipped my last appointment :( I'm going to try really hard to force myself to go this week. I just dread it.
Posted by Marie Box on May 13, 2010, at 15:28:13
In reply to Re: Want to quit, but do I need to 'fess up, first?, posted by Marie Box on May 11, 2010, at 18:55:41
Well, I went, and today--once again--we pretty much just talked about nothing. I realized that I am scared of what's going on, but I just don't think that my therapist knows how to break through to me. I want to stop going but now I feel like I'm just going to go through life wondering if there's a part of me that's broken that not even my therapist could fix. I'm going to cancel the rest of my appointments.
Posted by workinprogress on May 14, 2010, at 23:05:04
In reply to Re: Want to quit, but do I need to 'fess up, first?, posted by Marie Box on May 13, 2010, at 15:28:13
((((((mariebox)))))
It sounds like you're feeling really frustrated. And I know from what you said earlier, you're at least a bit afraid. I absolutely empathize with that fear. What I will tell you, from my experience, sharing with my T how I feel about her and how important she is to me- while a HUGE RISK- is always so so worth it. And, it always brings me closer to her and closer to healing. Is there any chance try to share your feelings with her before just quitting? Might it help to talk to her about it? Just some things to consider...
take good care of yourself...
WIP
> Well, I went, and today--once again--we pretty much just talked about nothing. I realized that I am scared of what's going on, but I just don't think that my therapist knows how to break through to me. I want to stop going but now I feel like I'm just going to go through life wondering if there's a part of me that's broken that not even my therapist could fix. I'm going to cancel the rest of my appointments.
Posted by brokenpuppet on May 20, 2010, at 18:36:06
In reply to Re: Want to quit, but do I need to 'fess up, first?, posted by Marie Box on May 11, 2010, at 18:55:41
> I am mortified that I can't contain these emotional responses to her enough for them not to interfere with therapy. The longings and gratitude that I feel, and the self-attacks and self-loathing that follow--they are just so painful. And I can't figure out if it's worthwhile because the only time my life really feels like its going down the tubes is when I feel these things, which is only after I reach out to her for help and she responds. And the idea of saying all of this to her, and even having her respond appropriately...it seems like it would just throw me overboard into a sea when I don't have the strength to swim. But I don't know what else to do. It just feels like there's no solution.
hi! i've also just recently posted about leaving therapy and then i read your post and i wanted to say that i understand completely but i wasn't nearly as brave as you in writing and explaining my feelings here. i have been able to share with my therapist some of my feelings but i can't share them here (yet?).
i think that you should hang in there and take it slowly - if you can post so openly here you will be able to talk to your therapist one day... slowly, just take it one step at a time.
i hope that helps. or maybe nothing really helps as its something inside you that has to overcome the ...fear? i don't know what to call it, its like a fighting a survival instinct, it's like trying to force yourself to jump off a cliff.
i wish you well and hope you look after yourself in the meantime.
Posted by Marie Box on May 28, 2010, at 16:04:25
In reply to Re: Want to quit, but do I need to 'fess up, first?, posted by brokenpuppet on May 20, 2010, at 18:36:06
Thanks for responding!
I'm still stuck in therapy. My symptoms all seem to be worsening so I finally took a leap of faith and asked for help with some deeply personal things. Now I just have to convince myself to show up again even though I am utterly embarrassed about everything I said.
I don't understand therapy, really, or why I have to go through this to get better. It feels like surely there must be a better way, but I don't know what it is. If I did, I'd probably be doing it. Yeah.
This is the end of the thread.
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