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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by rnny on April 26, 2010, at 20:44:12
I see a psychiatrist/sleep specialist for anti-depressants. In his suite, my T rents an office. She is not employed by him, she is a tenant. However she is close with the psychiatrist and refers to him as a 'mentor'. I don't know if she is in love with him or what. He is married to an MD himself who also happens to be a psychiatrist. His son is the office manager of the practice and his other son runs their sleep clinic which is right there on the premises. The doctor is board certified both as a psychiatrist and sleep disorders specialist.
The psychiatrist has 2 Physician Assistant's who work for him. As you know, a PA can prescribe medication and see a patient just like a doctor can, only the PA has to be under the immediate supervision of a doctor so as to be able to consult with the doctor. I have seen one of the PA's a couple of times about my medication.
The PA once told me, "If you ever get your prescription filled and the medication doesn't work for you, bring the leftovers to us. We have alot of people here who don't have insurance who we can give it to if they take the same kind of medication". I know this is illegal and I was not going to be a part of it but being kind of new to the place, I bit my tounge and just knodded my head that I understood what she was saying. Not nodding in agreement per se.
Today while talking to my T I mentioned that this practice that the doctor's office has is illegal and I wanted her (the T) to know that I don't approve of it. I mentioned it was a felony and was something the doctor and his relevant staff could be arrested for, lose their licenses and serve prison time. It was that severe.
She said to me, "You have to let Dr. (Blank) know about this. That you feel this way". I told her I wasn't going to let Dr. (Blank) know anything and she said, "Do you mind if I tell him". I was very concerned that she would consider telling the psychiatrist something she and I discussed and I told her, " I don't mind if you tell him, just do not mention my name." I later called her and told her that I did not want her to discuss it with him at all unless she was going to him as an individual on her own. In short, I did not feel comfortable with her going to him and saying "A patient of mine said.....".
She said that was fine and reassured me that she could be trusted not to involve me. But it worries me that she would have thought (with my approval I suppose) that talking to the psychiatrst about anything she and I speak about would be something she could do. I may see him as my psychiatrist but I see her as my T and what I say in her office, stays in her office. Just because I see two health care professionals under one roof, they are two separate businesses and she has no right to talk to him about me unless I approve or ask her to.
I am not sure why she wanted me to tell Dr. (Blank) my concerns. She went on to say that alot of people there don't have money and she was sure it was to help people because Dr. (Blank) is such a nice person. As I type this, I am not even sure that she was aware this practice was taking place. About them re-using patient medications for other patients. Incidentally, the PA (Physician Asst.) who told me to bring back any unused medication also told me they get alot of samples and sometimes the samples have expired in terms of the date but they will still use them. She gave me some samples once that had expired but assured me it was still safe to use them. The medication was a precription form of Melatonin, something you can buy over the counter in Walmart and I knew with that one, that the expiration date held very little water. Melatonin is not a chemical property that is likely to change it's makeup radically if a prescription date has expired. That cannot be said of all medications and I do remember her saying it depended on the medication and the expiration date as to whether they would still issue it to a patient.
All of this is alot to be concerned about but my main question is why would my T be anxious for me to talk to the psychiatrist about how I feel? She was suggesting to me that I was worried something might happen to him if he were to be caught so maybe she was trying to help me get this off my chest with him? Or was she trying to use me as a go between to spread the word to the psychiatrist that what he is doing is illegal.
What say you? How do you view it? I made it clear to her that I didn't want any funny business coming out of her office because I wouldn't tolerate it and she assured me that she doesn't run her practice the way the psychiatrist run's his. Still, why would she want me to face the psychiatrist and tell him my thoughts and feelings about the medication scheme? I know I can ask her. I can even call her if I find it intolerable to wait until next week. But I am OK, I think I can hold out.
I was just wondering your opinion on why she said to me "Oh, you have to let Dr. (Blank) know you feel this way". And when I said I wasn't going to why would she say then, "Would it be OK if I let him know"?
For someone who is very keen on everything being ethical and above board it is strange I haven't taken any action over this already. The reason I haven't is because it is a very serious problem and I don't want to become embroiled in it.
Any comments about any of this? In particular, about the T and her dramatic concern almost that I talk to Dr. (Blank) about this or if not, would it be OK if she did? I find that part the hardest to understand. The "Would it be OK if I did".
I am not sure what her motives were. That Dr. (Blank) hear it from someone with a legal backround that what he is doing is illegal or that she was concerned about me and me not feeling anxious. I am getting a feeling she was more concerned about the doctor being tipped off that he is doing something illegal instead of her caring about me.
You were not there and can't know any better than I, but what do these facts suggest to you?
Thanks for your opinion. Feel free to re-read this to get the story straight. It does sound complicated so it was hard for me to write it out in a way that can easily be understood, at least intellectually in terms of just the facts.
rnny
Posted by rnny on April 27, 2010, at 0:32:29
In reply to Did T want to help me or her mentor? (long), posted by rnny on April 26, 2010, at 20:44:12
I wanted to say that despite the illegalities taking place, I have those under control as to what to do. I am not dismissing them as unimportant. Being sensitive, I was having a more difficult time discerning what the T was possibly thinking. But by no means am I overlooking the other matter.
Posted by mystickangaroo on April 27, 2010, at 4:44:46
In reply to Re: Did T want to help me or her mentor? (long), posted by rnny on April 27, 2010, at 0:32:29
Hi Rnmy
I am having trouble working out what your issue is here. You know the law. You know what the PA said to you. You told your T. Your T responded with Dr Blank needs to know. You said you couldn't tell him. T asks if they could. This challenged you because what is said in the room stays in the room for you.
What do you think can happen next? What can your T do to look after you? What do you need looking after from is what keeps going round my head.
Posted by emilyp on April 27, 2010, at 12:50:55
In reply to Re: Did T want to help me or her mentor? (long), posted by mystickangaroo on April 27, 2010, at 4:44:46
While not your main question, I also wonder why you would not want, at least to some degree, for your therapist and your psychiatrist to talk and make sure they are treating you as "one person." The therapy and the medication are closely related. And having one person know some things about you and a second person know others things does not allow you to be treated as a 'patient'. Instead on one hand you are treated as a biological entity and the other as an emotional entity. You might find this recent article in the NY Times of interest.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/25/magazine/25Memoir-t.html
I also say this from experience as I used to have both a therapist and psychiatrist and when they did not talk it was frustrating.
In addition, I also sense from your previous posts that you are always very suspicious of individuals in the mental health profession and feel as if they are trying to hurt you or are doing something unethical. I know various doctors who are very ethical but they do the same things with medication. It is tough for others out there, especially for the millions who do not have health insurance (or who have health insurance but not mental health coverage). Instead of seeing his actions as an illegal or unethical, perhaps you could see it as a way to help others. This does not mean you have to participate. But perhaps think twice before you jump to a negative conclusion. I would also think that having such a perspective of mental health professionals makes it more difficult for you to really benefit from the care you are receiving. Just something to consider.
Posted by rnny on April 27, 2010, at 14:28:51
In reply to Re: Did T want to help me or her mentor? (long), posted by emilyp on April 27, 2010, at 12:50:55
I am not "very suspicious" of people in the mental health profession. I know for a fact that people in the mental health profession are being sued left and right and are just now coming into being a class that is seeing their day in the justice system. It used to be hard to prosecute mental health professionals because of the "class" of the accuser. With mentally ill people getting their due justice, courts are recognizing the rights of the mentally ill and taking their complaints seriously. I studied law and psychiatry and have a schooled backround in it, unlike the average joe. That does not mean as a psychiatric patient I am any different than the average joe psychiatric patient. As for the T speaking to my psychiarist, that is something I would have wanted to do myself if I so chose and therein is the focus of my concern. Since I said I didn't want to speak to him about it, I was wondering why someone would then say "Do you mind if I do". I don't want to be implicated in a felonious situation was my point, so of course I don't want my name being brought into a scenario like that. I would not be implicated in terms of being charged with anything but I certainly would be implicated as a witness and frankly that is something I just don't want to take on right now. If I was to address this legally, there are other ways to go about it. I know the story is long and takes someone with a surgeon's knife to decipher what the concerns are. However I tried to make it clear what I was asking about and if that is something someone else can't pick up on, then just ignore the post. It was very long and it could be that because it is crystal clear to me what the concern was, another person can read what I submitted and pick up on nothing to be concerned about. Thanks.
Posted by emilyp on April 27, 2010, at 16:26:31
In reply to Re: Did T want to help me or her mentor? (long), posted by rnny on April 27, 2010, at 14:28:51
Trust me, I understood your concerns
Posted by emmanuel98 on April 27, 2010, at 20:41:32
In reply to Did T want to help me or her mentor? (long), posted by rnny on April 26, 2010, at 20:44:12
It sounds like she wanted to convey your legal/ethical concerns to the p-doc for his own safety. To do this without using your name seems very reasonable to me. If I found my p-doc was, inadvertently, doing something illegal, I would want him to know and if I couldn't tell him myself, I wouldn't mind my T cluing him in without using my name. Of course, my T and p-doc don't share an office, so if my T called my p-doc, it would be pretty obvious that the message came from me.
Posted by mystickangaroo on April 28, 2010, at 6:34:52
In reply to Did T want to help me or her mentor? (long), posted by rnny on April 26, 2010, at 20:44:12
I have had another read of your original post. Yes it is long.
My question for you is why did you raise it with your T? Your T is not involved in prescription. She is not part of the practice. She just rents a room in the building.
What did you expect her to do? What would you think of a T that knew of illegal activity and did nothing? Nothing at all. It's not like you were having an intellectual or hypothetical conversation about it. My sense is your T wanted less of a theraputic conversation about the meds and a more informative one - with a person you know. The person who is responsible for the prescription of meds. (and potential supply)
In direct answer to your question. you didn't need help. Your T's mentor is looking at possible crimminal charges. Who would you help?
Posted by rnny on April 28, 2010, at 9:33:54
In reply to Re: Did T want to help me or her mentor? (long), posted by emmanuel98 on April 27, 2010, at 20:41:32
That is how I felt eman. That it would be pretty obvious the message came from me. And what you suggest makes sence. That she was concerned for his legal safety. That is what I was trying to determine. I have never had a T say of anything or anyone, "would you mind if I told 'him or her'". So right away the anxiety set in motion and I was getting anxiety over it. In my case, an anxiety attack almost. That's me. That's one reason I see a shrink! ty for your great answer.
Posted by rnny on April 28, 2010, at 9:37:44
In reply to Re: Did T want to help me or her mentor? (long), posted by mystickangaroo on April 28, 2010, at 6:34:52
>>>My question for you is why did you raise it with your T? Your T is not involved in prescription. She is not part of the practice. She just rents a room in the building.<<< I raised it with my T for the same reasons any of us raise anything with our T. And those reasons are multiple, many when you consider all of use see a T and raise things with them for any number of reasons. Raising it with my T is not the isssue. But it is OK that you asked.
This is the end of the thread.
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