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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by backseatdriver on September 2, 2009, at 17:06:15
Hey Babblers,
I've noticed a pattern in some recent postings, mine about money included.
We seem quick to want to claim that even when something about our therapist makes us uncomfortable, we try not to be judgmental.
So I want to turn the question differently and ask: What's wrong with judgment?
People are commonly lauded for showing "good judgment", and a "good judge of character" is a wonderful thing to be.
So what is wrong with taking a position on someone or something? What is the difference, as you see it, between good judgment and just being judgmental -- especially when it comes to our Ts?
Your thoughts? I'm looking forward to reading and learning from you.
BSD
Posted by Dinah on September 2, 2009, at 17:30:18
In reply to What's wrong with judgement?, posted by backseatdriver on September 2, 2009, at 17:06:15
I used to say the same thing.
And I suppose the answer is nothing. There is nothing wrong with using judgment to decide who you want to be with or what you wish to do.
I guess as I get older, I see the problem as being judging an entire person by only a part of them. I still judge behavior, but I try not to judge a person only on that behavior.
Boy, I really have turned into a mother.
Not for them, so much, as for me. If I use judge people harshly for some of their behavior, I miss out on many rich relationships and hurt myself.
I suppose I still judge people (as opposed to behaviors) but I try not to do it without looking at the entire picture. And I suppose I try mainly to judge them for their kindness, generosity, and integrity.
But even there.... Some people aren't so kind to me, but may show a lot of kindness to others. I can respect that kindness and try to incorporate a positive regard to that person into my overall view of them.
Everyone has flaws and good qualities. If we don't accept that the bitter comes with the better, we end up rejecting a whole lot of people who could enrich our lives.
And of course, I'd prefer that others not judge me harshly, so there's that whole golden rule thing going on.
Posted by Partlycloudy on September 2, 2009, at 17:50:02
In reply to What's wrong with judgement?, posted by backseatdriver on September 2, 2009, at 17:06:15
I am encouraged by my therapist to embrace my judgments as human nature. If something or someone is really bugging me, she'll have me write out a list of all the pettinesses that I can think of. Sometimes it helps me to see the silliness of them - sometimes it helps me see that what I think is upsetting me is really about something else.
So I make no attempts to hide the fact that I am judgmental. I do, however, hide the judgments themselves - particularly at a place like babble - if by voicing them I'd be uncivil or hurting someone's feelings. It's very much for my internal work and not for public viewing, but I find it useful not to pretend that I don't have these judgments. They exist, everyone (I think, to some extent) has them, and I judge myself the most harshly of all. I think it's human nature.
Posted by obsidian on September 2, 2009, at 22:31:14
In reply to Re: What's wrong with judgement? » backseatdriver, posted by Dinah on September 2, 2009, at 17:30:18
judgment is a good thing inmho
I trust my T to a great extent, not as much as I could, but I really do try
I trust him because he is consistent, shows warmth when he needs to, pushes me, and I don't want to disappoint him, but I will...and I think he kind of wants me to tell him when I disagree with something, but I don't generally disagree, and sometimes I am more present in therapy and sometimes I'm not, and he'll point that out too, and he can tell when I am angry, and he has a sense of humor with me, I need a sense of humor ;-)
I need him to undertand how hard things have been for me sometimes...how hard it has been sometimes to be alive
Posted by onceupon on September 2, 2009, at 22:32:13
In reply to What's wrong with judgement?, posted by backseatdriver on September 2, 2009, at 17:06:15
Good question.
I agree with pc that judgment is a part of human nature, and to deny that we're judging things constantly is probably not so accurate. But what we do with that judgment is maybe another issue. If we always take it at face value, we probably miss out on valuable connections, as Dinah pointed out.
Now that I think about it, it seems that whenever my judgments unnecessarily distance me from someone else (e.g., when it's not a matter of safety or something like that), it would probably benefit me to do some internal searching as to why I hold that particular judgment, and what that says about me.
My 2c - coming from a somewhat addled brain - try not to judge too harshly :)
Posted by floatingbridge on September 2, 2009, at 23:01:10
In reply to What's wrong with judgement?, posted by backseatdriver on September 2, 2009, at 17:06:15
Hi BSD, what a good question!
I think that being aware of my judgments is good. Many (too many) pass by unnoted and before I know, I'm acting on them--sometimes with good results--sometimes with destructive results (like self-sabotage, or unkindness to others). I like being able to make a judgement--helps me feel my boundaries. Judgments are good to examine too, to see how and what they might serve.
P.S. I've had a few T's that I just didn't jive with. I didn't really like their values--which meant ultimately, unsuccessful therapy. And there were some that didn't like mine! When I confessed my disappointment with my T about his Lexus--well, I liked his response. I respected that I could talk to him and that, in that instance, I could happily let that one go.
fb
Posted by Phillipa on September 4, 2009, at 12:37:37
In reply to Re: What's wrong with judgement? » backseatdriver, posted by floatingbridge on September 2, 2009, at 23:01:10
I admitt I judge myself the hardest. I try not to judge others. Sometimes it's not judgement but trying to figure out why. The why of what they are causing me to feel. Don't know if this makes sense. Phillipa
Posted by Nadezda on September 4, 2009, at 19:25:32
In reply to What's wrong with judgement?, posted by backseatdriver on September 2, 2009, at 17:06:15
There's no particular problem with making judgments. But in common usage, that's different from being judgmental.
Being judgmental involves making a lot of negative judgments about people, particularly moral judgments, as if to say that you yourself are morally (or otherwise) superior and looking down on them. Most people try to be as accepting as possible of others, at least except on really important issues, if only because they would also like others to accept them, despite some differences in values, abilities, etc. Another reason to be accepting is that often being judgmental of others is tied to being rather judgmental toward oneself-- which can be self-destructive.
Anyway, it's in my mind the opposite of kindness, emotional generosity and openness. For those reasons, I try to become less judgmental and more accepting and appreciative of people.
As far as Ts go, there are special reasons to be grateful--and therefore generous in spirit-- because if you've been seeing a T for a while, this is a person who has been caring, concerned, and thoughtful about you. For
those and other reasons,I suppose I would be likely to think the things that bothered me weren't important compared to the person's contribution to my life--if not in the moment, at least ultimately. That's not blind acceptance, or idealization, but at least not being judgmental.Nadezda
Posted by backseatdriver on September 5, 2009, at 14:48:47
In reply to What's wrong with judgement?, posted by backseatdriver on September 2, 2009, at 17:06:15
Lots of interesting thoughts to mull over. I wish I had more to say in reply, but I seem to have picked up my old depressive pathogen again. All I can do at the moment is express my appreciation. Thanks!
Posted by backseatdriver on September 5, 2009, at 14:49:34
In reply to Re: What's wrong with judgement?, posted by backseatdriver on September 5, 2009, at 14:48:47
PS. Meant to add, re: depressive pathogen: I'm no angel, and this gets me down.
Posted by floatingbridge on September 5, 2009, at 17:09:47
In reply to Re: What's wrong with judgement?, posted by backseatdriver on September 5, 2009, at 14:49:34
Hey BSD,
Well, I don't know any angels, and am certainly not one myself ;) I think they're mythical, unless, of course one happens to be five--my son believes in angels and the wee-folk.
Yeah, that pesky depressive pathogen. I'm well acquainted with mine. Sorry to hear you have one of your own.
Thanks for starting a good thread!
fb
Posted by seldomseen on September 6, 2009, at 8:27:43
In reply to What's wrong with judgement?, posted by backseatdriver on September 2, 2009, at 17:06:15
I think one of the problems with judgement is that we so often do not have enough information to make a truly informed one. This may be a matter of semantics, but a thoughtful conclusion based on as much information as can be gathered, is usually preferable, at least to me.
Also, judgements tend to be so polarizing. As others have indicated, rarely (actually never) are people all bad or all good. Making a judgement IMO, tends to put people into these all or nothing categories. Sort of a throwing the baby out with the bathwater type thing.
I think embedded in the concept of judgement is the notion of "acceptable risk" - which is the amount of potential threat we are willing to tolerate. I think this threshold of risk varies from person to person, or even intrapersonally given a situation.
When I first started my recovery process my threshold for acceptable risk was very very low. I have since raised that threshold a considerable amount and I simply cannot convey how much richer my life is as a result.
Just my two cents.
Seldom.
Posted by Dinah on September 6, 2009, at 14:01:59
In reply to Re: What's wrong with judgement?, posted by seldomseen on September 6, 2009, at 8:27:43
I like that way of describing it.
Posted by Nadezda on September 6, 2009, at 15:07:32
In reply to Re: What's wrong with judgement? » seldomseen, posted by Dinah on September 6, 2009, at 14:01:59
I do, too.
One thing I've noticed as a small example, is that on the subway, you can look around and think that everyone is sort of forbidding, or not dressed that well, or threatening. But if you really open your eyes and look at people individually, you see how interesting they each are. Each person seems to have a different way of presenting themselves, or different expressions, or ways of sitting or standing, and you find yourself becoming intrigued with how they are. It does open up a whole new, much more inviting and enjoyable world.
Nadezda
This is the end of the thread.
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