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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by TherapyGirl on July 11, 2009, at 19:25:18
In reply to Re: I might not live through this ***TRIGGER*** » TherapyGirl, posted by obsidian on July 11, 2009, at 16:15:43
Thanks, Sid. I'm trying really hard to let go of the anger and understand where she is so I can remember her as the T she's been most of these years. But it's really, really hard.
Thanks for your support.
Posted by TherapyGirl on July 11, 2009, at 19:26:44
In reply to Re: I might not live through this ***TRIGGER***, posted by TherapyGirl on July 11, 2009, at 19:17:52
Posted by Daisym on July 11, 2009, at 20:16:41
In reply to Re: I might not live through this ***TRIGGER*** » obsidian, posted by TherapyGirl on July 11, 2009, at 19:25:18
I've been wondering if your therapist is so angry at God or the World or whatever that she has no empathy left - at least for now. It is almost as if she can't have one more person need her - like there is nothing left there to give. Not that this is an excuse, as this is her job. But I'm just struck by the complete change and her lack of capacity to hold you.
I know how much my mom changed when her husband died. It has been 2 1/2 years and she is still unthinkingly cruel at times.
Again - not an excuse. I'm just so sad for both of you.
Posted by TherapyGirl on July 11, 2009, at 20:28:16
In reply to Re: I might not live through this ***TRIGGER*** » TherapyGirl, posted by Daisym on July 11, 2009, at 20:16:41
That's an interesting thought. She is an ordained minister, so it would be really interesting for her to be angry at God, etc.
I should also mention that her 1st husband died in an accident when her children were very young (3 and 3 mos.). This husband had a degenerative disease when she married him. I really thought she would have a better handle on it. And I really, really thought she'd be more in touch with her feelings about it and her ability (or inability) to do her job. I think the fact that she has not responded to either of the two times that I said she wasn't herself says it all. If she would at least admit it, we could talk about it and figure something out. But she keeps saying it's MY filter. It's just an impossible situation.
Posted by twilight on July 12, 2009, at 18:33:21
In reply to I might not live through this ***TRIGGER***, posted by TherapyGirl on July 10, 2009, at 16:35:46
I feel for you Therapygirl, 24 years is a long time, it is a death in some way, a death of the person she used to be before her husband died. I can really relate to that. It's so hard for you but I hope you get help to get you through this time when she is retiring, plus she is not herself due to her own mourning process.
Obviously, she did not or could not realize how it has affected her practice so continued on. Maybe she needed the income up to retirement, who knows.
But the fact is, no she is not the same person. Remember it is not you, or anything you've done. It is her own circumstances that have caused her to feel like this. And being human, as we all are, sometimes even the best of training can't help one deal with a major crisis like the death of spouse.
Hopefully you can find a second T to help you through this maybe?
Posted by TherapyGirl on July 13, 2009, at 17:51:05
In reply to Re: I might not live through this ***TRIGGER*** » TherapyGirl, posted by twilight on July 12, 2009, at 18:33:21
Thanks, Twilight. I'm trying to remember all of this and cut her some slack, but it's hard.
I don't think I'm up for another T right now, but I'll keep it in mind for later.
Thanks for the support.
Posted by TherapyGirl on July 13, 2009, at 17:54:04
In reply to I might not live through this ***TRIGGER***, posted by TherapyGirl on July 10, 2009, at 16:35:46
Still absolutely NO RESPONSE to my message from last Wed. (when I said I loved her and appreciated what she had done for me). I thought maybe she would send me a card with a note or something, but NOTHING. I can't tell you how out of character that is for her. To not respond at all?? Who IS this person and what did she do with my T?
I left her a message yesterday telling her I wouldn't be in this week, but that there was still some small part of me holding out hope that we could figure out a better way to do this. So I want to give both of us a break, not give up my slot, and go week-to-week right now. I think her response (or non-response) to that will tell me everything else I need to know.
Posted by LadyBug on July 13, 2009, at 20:04:13
In reply to Re: The update, posted by TherapyGirl on July 13, 2009, at 17:54:04
ThearpyGirl-
I feel for what you're going through. I can totally relate to what's happening to you.I suffered through my T's retirement last December. In March of 08 we suffered a major rupture in our work. I won't go into my story because it takes too long. I've never been so hurt by someone in my whole life. We worked together for almost 12 years. She was my lifeline helping me through a lot of stuff.
Anyway, after she hurt me, she left for 3 weeks. I saw her when she got back and one time after that. I took a break thinking I'd never go back. She changed directions on me just as your T has done to you. She stopped responding to me in the ways she always had done. She never took ownership to hurting me. So I stopped going.In July, I got this formal letter from her in the mail announcing her retirement. She added she would be available to see me if I needed to see her. It kinda shocked me that she was retiring. It took me until November to decide what I should do. But I went back for 4 or 5 visits. I was sad she was leaving. I loved her and needed her. Things went as well as they could have. We had a positive ending so I'm glad I went back.
I know how you feel, with me our work ended before I was ready. But she changed on me too. I believe retirement becomes their MAIN focus. It's sad because we have to deal with it too. I chose not to see anyone else. No way did I want to get back into being so attached to someone only to have to say goodbye again. There's nothing I can compare the loss of my T. I cried for weeks. It does get easier with time but I MISS HER like crazy sometimes. It's been so hard. I don't have contact with her. I guess that's best because our work is done.
I'm thinking about you. You will get through this! I'm sorry things are so dang complicated. I don't think you will get her back in the ways she's always been for you. She's moving on in her life and unfortunately it spills over into her work. We as patients, suffer so much because of it. It just plain sucks to the highest degree!
I was so grateful for my babble friends as no one else could even begin to understand my situation.
HANG IN THERE! Keep posting. We'll help you through.
LadyBug
Posted by TherapyGirl on July 13, 2009, at 20:14:49
In reply to Re: The update » TherapyGirl, posted by LadyBug on July 13, 2009, at 20:04:13
Thanks, LB. Yes, I remember very clearly your struggles with your T. There really has to be a better way to do this, but I think you're right -- once they make the decision to leave, they've already left.
I'll keep you posted. I think about you often and hope that it gets easier with time. I highly recommend a dog if you don't already have one. I don't know that I would have come home from the family vacation last week without knowing my girl was here waiting for me. She's about the only positive change in my life this whole year.
And you're right -- Babblers rock. I don't know what I would do without you guys, too.
Posted by TherapyGirl on July 14, 2009, at 19:59:08
In reply to Re: The update, posted by TherapyGirl on July 13, 2009, at 17:54:04
No response to either of my last two messages. Is it possible my T isn't speaking to me? WTF???????
Posted by Dinah on July 14, 2009, at 21:29:59
In reply to Re: Still no response -- to anything ((Sigh)), posted by TherapyGirl on July 14, 2009, at 19:59:08
(((( Therapygirl ))))
Posted by LadyBug on July 15, 2009, at 3:29:08
In reply to Re: Still no response -- to anything ((Sigh)), posted by TherapyGirl on July 14, 2009, at 19:59:08
I can think of a few words I could call her right now but I can't use them on here. At the end my T told me no more voice mail unless it pertained to scheduling. That crushed me because it was totally fine for 11 years.
When will you see her again? I'm so sorry you are going through this, I know it's hard.
Hugs to you......
LadyBug
Posted by TherapyGirl on July 15, 2009, at 6:58:35
In reply to Re: Still no response -- to anything ((Sigh)) » TherapyGirl, posted by LadyBug on July 15, 2009, at 3:29:08
Thanks, Dinah & LadyBug.
My T hasn't given me any rules for contact right now, but who knows? The rules seem to change almost daily and I am left to try to figure them out on my own. I usually find out by breaking them. God, if that's not my childhood, I don't know what is.
I'm not scheduled to see her again, but in my last message to her I specifically said that I did not want to permanently give up my slot and that I hoped she would work with me on that.
I was actually thinking in the last couple of days that maybe we limit our discussions about her retirement to once/month with the expectation that she will focus during those sessions. The other stuff we talk about does not need as much intensity from her.
But apparently she'd just rather me go away. Far away. Have I mentioned lately that this is so much worse than my worst nightmare about this over the years?
Posted by annierose on July 15, 2009, at 8:02:14
In reply to Re: Still no response -- to anything ((Sigh)), posted by TherapyGirl on July 15, 2009, at 6:58:35
Did you specifically ask her to call you back? From the sounds of your posts, it sounds like you gave her directions, i.e. "I am not coming in but hold open my future appointments."
So maybe she has done that and is waiting to hear from you as far as the next step.
I sound like a broken record, but I think another therapist would help you get through this awful transition with your current t ... especially now that you are so disappointed with your therapy and how she is handling the good-bye part. I keep pushing you to think about this as an option as I abruptly ended therapy (years ago) mid-session with my long-term therapist. After a few months of brewing (or stewing) I did seek professional help and it was extremely helpful all the way around. This is a huge loss.
Posted by muffled on July 15, 2009, at 10:35:40
In reply to Re: Still no response -- to anything ((Sigh)), posted by TherapyGirl on July 15, 2009, at 6:58:35
I liked what annierose said too TG...
FWIW, I have kept my 'relationship' w/my present T, very surface, and she is that way too. Big boundaries and strict.
She is not cosy. I don't want to know about her.
She is not 'supportive' in 'that' way. She is a sounding board for my emails, she gives me info, reflects on things I say etc.
She is a TOOL for me to use.
Cuz ya, leaving my last T hurt. It hurt that it didn't seem to bother HER one bit!
So I keep suggesting you find some support ie a T, but you say you don't want to be hurt again. But what I am saying is this new T is just to help you get thru the grief. NOT to be a special person or anything...
But maybe thats easier for me to do, cuz of how I am, I dunno...
Anyhow, w/o hearing your T's side of things, I can't REALLY know what is going on. But it DOES sound like she herself has had some really big life changes going on, and that she may just be barely coping herself in her personal life. She's a person like any other and for all we know she is hanging on by her fingernails too...
I agree that it would appear she has handled this badly.
But maybe thats all she can give, maybe its all she has left...
She is human.
IMHO, which I of course realize doesn't really amt to much, but I think maybe you can't really contiunue with your T, she seems to not be able to cope adequately, for whatever reason, and all the gnashing of teeth and wailing won't change that, and in fact perhaps adds more pressure...
I know SO BAD you want T back, but maybe it just can't be :(
Maybe instead of contining to torture yourself over this, you need to walk away, give yourself and T some space.
Let T know you have (hopefully???) sought another source of support.
This way you can end w/her on a good note.
Maybe still touch base now and again to know she is OK. I bet she would like that.
But right now there is TOO much emotion and 'stuff' in T's life, too much emotion and 'stuff' btwn you two guys, just TOO much...
Sorry this is long.
I honestly think you can get thru this TG, but its crazy hard, but you will get thru it.
((((((((((TG))))))))))))
I hope you can find a counsellor of some sort and start a new 'relationship', whatever that might come to be. It might be a breath of fresh air having a new T with new ideas and new ways of working. Could be kinda interesting.
Sorry if I am annoying :(
Give your sweet baby a pat and a scratch on the tummy for me :)
M
Posted by rskontos on July 15, 2009, at 21:40:49
In reply to Re: Still no response -- to anything ((Sigh)), posted by TherapyGirl on July 14, 2009, at 19:59:08
I am sorry for her bad, neglectful behavior. Hang in there.
rsk
Posted by TherapyGirl on July 16, 2009, at 17:27:26
In reply to Re: Still no response -- to anything ((Sigh)) » TherapyGirl, posted by rskontos on July 15, 2009, at 21:40:49
Thanks, AnnieRose, Muffled and RSK. I really do appreciate the support and I'm trying to listen to what you're all saying about a new T. It's very hard for me to even consider it right now, but I promise I'll keep the option in mind. I think part of the problem is that it took me 4 years to speak to this T -- four years of at least weekly sessions, mostly in complete silence. I just don't feel like I can go through that again and yet it's fairly likely to take me a long time (maybe not 4 years) to feel safe enough to talk to someone. I just don't know.
T did finally call me back today -- this is the first response I've gotten to either of the messages I've left in the last 8 days. She said she wanted me to know she had gotten my messages and that she was willing to work with me. She confirmed that she would leave my slot open until I decided what to do. I told her I might be ready by next week and she said that was fine.
Not exactly warm and encouraging, but at least it was something. I really, really want to do this goodbye better than either of us has managed to do it so far. I'm trying to put some ideas in place to make it work better for both of us. I guess we'll see how open she is to that.
I hate all of this. And I miss my T.
Posted by Dinah on July 19, 2009, at 15:13:06
In reply to Re: Update + Thanks, posted by TherapyGirl on July 16, 2009, at 17:27:26
I hope she's open to hearing your ideas, and that somehow you can have the best goodbye possible. I honor your efforts in that. I have the sneaking suspicion I won't be nearly that gracious.
We had one of those absolutely fabulous sessions last Saturday. I'm reassured by the strangest things, but I was reassured. However, I left with an image I just can't shake.
You know how I said that if he ever tries to leave, I'll wrap myself around his legs like a snake and he'll have to peel me off him? I suddenly got the image that instead, I'll wrap myself around his legs and he'll just detach them and walk away. Because I never did have the real him, just the therapist him, and he can take off the therapist him any time.
He laughed and sighed when I told him that. But... I think there may be truth to it.
Posted by sunnydays on July 19, 2009, at 15:56:00
In reply to Re: Update + Thanks » TherapyGirl, posted by Dinah on July 19, 2009, at 15:13:06
It's interesting that you have that image... My therapist has talked about how he's not the same at home that he is in the room with me. But the most core components of him - his empathy, his good-natured humor/teasing, his ability to be nonjudgmental, are not things you just turn on and off at will. So while you probably get some 'techniques' that are part of him as a therapist and that he can 'take off', I'm also absolutely certain that you get some of the core, permanent, inalienable parts of him too. You have been with him so long I'm sure you have touched him personally. And he can't take that off either.
sunnydays
Posted by TherapyGirl on July 19, 2009, at 19:38:20
In reply to Re: Update + Thanks » TherapyGirl, posted by Dinah on July 19, 2009, at 15:13:06
We are so much alike, Dinah. Sigh.
Your image really resonated with me until I read SD's response. I'm going to try to hang onto that thought.
I have no idea what to expect from T, but I'm determined to see her this week and try again. A couple of very wise people have encouraged me to think about already having the memories, etc., stored up for when she's gone. I think mostly they're right, but I really need to at least allow for the possibility of new memories of our connection. And that can't happen the way we've been handling this.
So I guess we'll see. I'm hoping I don't walk out of there devastated yet again.
Posted by TherapyGirl on July 19, 2009, at 19:38:55
In reply to Re: Update + Thanks » Dinah, posted by sunnydays on July 19, 2009, at 15:56:00
Thanks for this, SD. I know you were responding to Dinah, but this is a helpful reframing for me, too. So just thanks, okay?
Posted by Dinah on July 20, 2009, at 7:54:34
In reply to Re: Update + Thanks » Dinah, posted by sunnydays on July 19, 2009, at 15:56:00
That's what he says too.
And goodness knows it seems as if I've gotten the real him often enough to know who he is.
The imagery comes from something he said in the session, and while there was nothing wrong in what he said and even a lot right in it, somehow that image entered and stuck. He of course was frustrated by that.
Posted by Dinah on July 20, 2009, at 7:56:46
In reply to Re: Update + Thanks » Dinah, posted by TherapyGirl on July 19, 2009, at 19:38:20
I didn't mean to upset you. And my point of view may well be skewed right now because of my mood. So don't pay me overmuch mind.
I know I'm a Jessica to him, and I know you're a Jessica to her. She might not be in a place to show it, but I hope you can hold on to that.
Posted by TherapyGirl on July 20, 2009, at 10:33:25
In reply to Re: Update + Thanks » TherapyGirl, posted by Dinah on July 20, 2009, at 7:56:46
You really didn't upset me, Dinah. I swear. The image was just extremely powerful AND what SD said made some sense, too.
You have such a way of drawing pictures with your words. I really like that about you. I still read your willow tree post regularly.
Posted by Dinah on July 20, 2009, at 10:40:00
In reply to Re: Update + Thanks » Dinah, posted by TherapyGirl on July 20, 2009, at 10:33:25
This is the end of the thread.
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