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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by obsidian on May 10, 2009, at 20:01:24
In reply to Therapy is wrong!!, posted by obsidian on May 10, 2009, at 19:46:40
for the members of our new anti-therapy movement?
how about?"Freud's a Fraud"
or
"F*ck you Ellis, I'll think how I want!"
Posted by obsidian on May 10, 2009, at 20:04:46
In reply to what should the T-shirts say?, posted by obsidian on May 10, 2009, at 20:01:24
nevermind
Posted by obsidian on May 10, 2009, at 20:09:25
In reply to forget it, I'm cancelling the movement....., posted by obsidian on May 10, 2009, at 20:04:46
active suppression of feelings, just deny them and they will eventually go away
I have spoken, the end
Posted by SLS on May 10, 2009, at 21:42:33
In reply to what this world needs is more....., posted by obsidian on May 10, 2009, at 20:09:25
Hi Obsidian.
You managed to get a smile and a few chuckles out of me. I know there is truth in jest, and I just hope that you are not in a bad place.
- Scott
Posted by Sigismund on May 10, 2009, at 22:04:21
In reply to what should the T-shirts say?, posted by obsidian on May 10, 2009, at 20:01:24
>F*ck you Ellis, I'll think how I want!"
That's the one I like.
I feel protective of Sigmund.
You could try 'Sigmund was right about coke and I'm right about you' or something.
Posted by obsidian on May 10, 2009, at 23:56:01
In reply to Re: what this world needs is more....., posted by SLS on May 10, 2009, at 21:42:33
I am trying to use my sense of humor, but the truth is that I am really hurt about how therapy has transpired with my T over the past few weeks. I'm really, really hurt, really triggered, with a lot of familiar feelings coming up...and I am not sure I can address everything with him.
My feelings are both intense, and to some degree irrational, but here I am with them nonetheless.
Posted by obsidian on May 10, 2009, at 23:58:43
In reply to Re: what should the T-shirts say? » obsidian, posted by Sigismund on May 10, 2009, at 22:04:21
poor sigmund, he was quite a guy. We should be nicer to him (((freudster)))
I wish he had laid off the cigars.
Posted by chumbawumba on May 11, 2009, at 0:55:49
In reply to Therapy is wrong!!, posted by obsidian on May 10, 2009, at 19:46:40
Your motto should be "I'll suffer if I want to dammit"
Posted by Sigismund on May 11, 2009, at 2:06:47
In reply to Re: Therapy is wrong!!, posted by chumbawumba on May 11, 2009, at 0:55:49
What do you think of the Patti Smith poem from "Horses", 'Gloria in Excelis Deo' which starts
>Jesus died for somebody's sins but not mine
meltin' in a pot of thieves
wild card up my sleeve
thick heart of stone
my sins my own
they belong to me, me
I take it that therapy is confession?Not that I have a position. I am extremely catholic.
Posted by FindingMyDesire on May 11, 2009, at 3:14:57
In reply to Re: what this world needs is more..... » SLS, posted by obsidian on May 10, 2009, at 23:56:01
Dear Obsidian,
I have to admit you cracked me up too. (Which I needed.) But I sure am sorry to hear that therapy has been so hard! I was just posting a response to an old post of mine about the cycle I get in. I'm about to enter the painful part of the process AGAIN for the thousandth time.Do you want to talk about what has been hard? Do you want to try to describe your "irrational" but very true feelings? It sounds like it's big. I admire your humor though. I have been totally hooked on YouTube videos this week. Watching some over and over just to feel the physical healing of laughter. It's so much like crying my eyes out.
If you are interested, I'm currently hooked on this one:
http://www.todaysbigthing.com/2009/05/04FMD
Posted by Recently on May 11, 2009, at 10:01:38
In reply to what should the T-shirts say?, posted by obsidian on May 10, 2009, at 20:01:24
> for the members of our new anti-therapy movement?
> how about?
>
> "Freud's a Fraud"
> or
> "F*ck you Ellis, I'll think how I want!"
>
A T-shirt I would buy!
Posted by obsidian on May 11, 2009, at 10:11:47
In reply to Re: Therapy is wrong!!, posted by Sigismund on May 11, 2009, at 2:06:47
> What do you think of the Patti Smith poem from "Horses", 'Gloria in Excelis Deo' which starts
>
> >Jesus died for somebody's sins but not mine
> meltin' in a pot of thieves
> wild card up my sleeve
> thick heart of stone
> my sins my own
> they belong to me, me
>
>
> I take it that therapy is confession?
>
> Not that I have a position. I am extremely catholic.I'm not sure what I think of it. What do you think it means?
I didn't know you were extremely catholic. I went to catholic schools until college.
I remember a vivid nightmare I had as a kid that the horns on my head had become visible while I was in church, very scary. I think my horns are showing now ;-). Maybe therapy is like confession without the penance and the possibility of hellfire later on. I've got my own hellfire.
Posted by obsidian on May 11, 2009, at 10:12:40
In reply to Re: Therapy is wrong!!, posted by chumbawumba on May 11, 2009, at 0:55:49
> Your motto should be "I'll suffer if I want to dammit"
I feel like my options are few.
Posted by obsidian on May 11, 2009, at 10:24:52
In reply to Re: what this world needs is more..... » obsidian, posted by FindingMyDesire on May 11, 2009, at 3:14:57
thanks for the link, I love things like that.
I am confronted again and again with the reality that I am powerless. My T seems to have been less and less available over the past few weeks. I know all about "reality", that I am alone ultimately with my struggles. It's just too much to be disappointed right now. It's too much to hope that someone could care. There's a switch in my head that brings it crashing down, and it's been flipped.
Thanks for asking, I find it hard to put these feelings into words.
-sid
Posted by obsidian on May 11, 2009, at 10:26:47
In reply to Re: what should the T-shirts say?, posted by Recently on May 11, 2009, at 10:01:38
I've got a T-shirt with a little chicken on a therapist's couch. The therapist is asking him "So, why did you cross the road?"
Posted by chumbawumba on May 11, 2009, at 15:02:31
In reply to Re: what this world needs is more..... » FindingMyDesire, posted by obsidian on May 11, 2009, at 10:24:52
> I am confronted again and again with the reality that I am powerless. My T seems to have been less and less available over the past few weeks. I know all about "reality", that I am alone ultimately with my struggles. It's just too much to be disappointed right now. It's too much to hope that someone could care. There's a switch in my head that brings it crashing down, and it's been flipped.
> Thanks for asking, I find it hard to put these feelings into words.
> -sidThere have been times in my life where I been full of despair and a hair's breadth from ending it all. And I think frequently I looked for some miracle cure, mostly in the form of a pill but sometimes in the form of a person or a drink or a drug, to relieve my suffering. As if the suffering was some sort of malady like a broken leg which could be "fixed". Like a leaky roof. Maybe there are people like that for whom depression is just a leaky roof ( a purely medical problem) and a pill fixes it, it hasn't worked like that for me. So anyway the following was written by a Zen master who also experienced a lot of despair as a young person. I don't know if you'll find it helpful, it was helpful to me.
"...But if we do allow ourselves at any time, to look down at the darkness and think that the darkness is the reality of our lives, to think that we cant, in reality, do something about ourselves, or we cant, in fact, take one more step--what we are implying is that the one step that is right in front of us is somehow insufficient, its not enough. Were starting to go back into holding onto some sort of hope that we can do something which will get us there in a big, big hurry or in one big leap or provide some kind of shortcut. Even though we may already know better, its very easy to start thinking, wouldnt it be nice to make this big shortcut or this big leap and not have any more despair, not have any more doubt, not have any more anger? It just doesnt work that way. For better or for worse, as human beings, the secret of life is will, the secret of life is willingness; the willingness to take one step is what grows and develops our faith. It grows and develops our will by exercising the will. In this respect it is like jogging or running or riding a bike or lifting weights; its the repetition of doing it over and over that develops it, that creates the strength of training."
Posted by chumbawumba on May 11, 2009, at 15:32:16
In reply to what this world needs is more....., posted by obsidian on May 10, 2009, at 20:09:25
> active suppression of feelings, just deny them and they will eventually go away
> I have spoken, the endActually, what this world needs is more cowbell.
Can you imagine, you're in the office with your shrink and he/she suggests maybe it's time to try something different, and you bust out with a cowbell .
"Yeah something different, whoo hoo, ting-bonk chunk-a-bonk-bang-bing"
Posted by obsidian on May 11, 2009, at 17:35:37
In reply to Re: what this world needs is more....., posted by chumbawumba on May 11, 2009, at 15:02:31
I used to function under the false assumption that if I just kept going that things would get better, if I just worked enough, got enough schooling, kept getting up in the morning, etc., that things would get better. Things did change, but a lot stayed the same, so there certainly must be other things to change.
I'm hopelessly determined, that much I know, just not right now.
thanks chumbawumba, be well,
sid
Posted by obsidian on May 11, 2009, at 17:37:21
In reply to Re: what this world needs is more..... » obsidian, posted by chumbawumba on May 11, 2009, at 15:32:16
agreed, we all need more cowbell :-)
-sid
Posted by Sigismund on May 11, 2009, at 21:04:53
In reply to Re: what this world needs is more....., posted by chumbawumba on May 11, 2009, at 15:02:31
>For better or for worse, as human beings, the secret of life is will, the secret of life is willingness; the willingness to take one step is what grows and develops our faith.
So perhaps faith can come from the preparedness to take the risk of being vulnerable?
Posted by chumbawumba on May 11, 2009, at 21:35:40
In reply to Re: what this world needs is more....., posted by Sigismund on May 11, 2009, at 21:04:53
> >For better or for worse, as human beings, the secret of life is will, the secret of life is willingness; the willingness to take one step is what grows and develops our faith.
>
> So perhaps faith can come from the preparedness to take the risk of being vulnerable?Well that's the great and the frustrating thing about these Zen masters. It's like a Rorschach test. You can interpret what they say in many different ways. JUST GIVE ME A STRAIGHT ANSWER DAMMNIT!!!
The way I interpet that particular section (in the context of despair and depression) is that we just have to be willing to take one more step. If that next step is making oneself vulnerable so be it. Whatever that may be, to just do the best we can no matter how small the effort. And then repeat. There's no big secret, no quantum leap, no sudden enlightenment.
So maybe I can't get out of bed I'm so depressed. Well so maybe I can move an arm out from underneath the covers. Or maybe it's just to not pull the trigger or not take the overdose of pills. And then little by little we get a little stronger. Maybe I can get up and brush my teeth.
So sometimes it seems like I can't go on. But the hope, the solution lies in just taking the next step. However small, the step itself is not important. It's the willingness to do something, anything.
I remember at my worst. It was all I could do to not kill myself. And I guess my recovery started when I became willing to live.
Posted by chumbawumba on May 11, 2009, at 22:00:14
In reply to Re: what this world needs is more....., posted by Sigismund on May 11, 2009, at 21:04:53
> >For better or for worse, as human beings, the secret of life is will, the secret of life is willingness; the willingness to take one step is what grows and develops our faith.
>
> So perhaps faith can come from the preparedness to take the risk of being vulnerable?Well thats the great and frustrating thing about these Zen masters. You can interpet what they say many different ways. JUST GIVE ME A STRAIGHT ANSWER DAMMIT!!!
The way I interpet that section (in the context of despair and depression) is to just not give up. Take the next step no matter how small. Maybe I can't get out of bed I'm so depressed. So maybe I can just take an arm out from underneath the covers. Or get up and brush my teeth and go back to bed. Just be willing to do something about yourself. And then do the next thing. But don't do something thinking of the next ten things you have to do. Just do one thing.
No quantum leaps, no sudden enlightenment, just the willingness to take the next step.
And it doesn't matter how small the effort. Because for me sometimes just getting out of bed might as well be Neal Armstrong's first step on the moon. It's a heroic effort, at least for me.
I remember at my worst it was all I could do not to kill myself. And I suppose I started to recover when I just became willing to live.
To take one step is enlightenment.
I like this story:
The Buddha was to give a Sermon to his adherents but instead just held up a flower. One of his disciples smiled. The Buddha picked that disciple as one who truly understood him and who was worthy to be his successor.
Posted by raisinb on May 12, 2009, at 13:46:59
In reply to what should the T-shirts say?, posted by obsidian on May 10, 2009, at 20:01:24
"Psychoanalysis causes lip cancer."
"The surgeon general says to lay off the couch."
"This lightbulb no longer wants to change."
"Give me back my $150. With that and a loyal customer discount, I could've had you killed by now."
"Transfer this, punk!" (obscene gesture pictured)
"My Ph.D. beat up your Ph.D."
"If I have so much ego strength, why haven't I thrown you out the window yet?"
"Oh yeah I've got BPD--Butt pain from my doctor."
"Therapy--the fastest way to lose friends and alienate people."
"My dog ate my CBT homework." Or, "My dog ate my unconscious. I think I'll have to get him neutered now." (sorry, that one was a little sick :))
"Therapy--the one place where the customer is always wrong."
"Oedipus might be blind, but he knows a stupid interpretation when he hears one."
"Freud, Kohut, and Otto Rank all walk into a bar...we can only assume the head injuries were to blame for all these stupid theories."
Posted by raisinb on May 12, 2009, at 13:49:19
In reply to Re: what should the T-shirts say?, posted by raisinb on May 12, 2009, at 13:46:59
Posted by obsidian on May 12, 2009, at 21:42:17
In reply to Re: what should the T-shirts say?, posted by raisinb on May 12, 2009, at 13:46:59
they were brilliant raisinb!! I shall begin printing the T-shirts immediately! (all proceeds to go to the anti-therapy movement)
-sid
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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