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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Dinah on April 22, 2009, at 18:37:45
In reply to Re: Feeling melancholy » Dinah, posted by Annierose on April 22, 2009, at 8:44:47
Posted by Dinah on April 22, 2009, at 18:39:07
In reply to Re: Feeling melancholy » Dinah, posted by workinprogress on April 22, 2009, at 9:54:52
Yes, there was definitely a mismatch of emotional content there. And a strong suspicion on my part that he wasn't telling me all he was thinking. Which is fine of course. But the heaviness of what isn't being said can sometimes make me uneasy.
Posted by Dinah on April 22, 2009, at 18:45:28
In reply to Re: Feeling melancholy, posted by Daisym on April 22, 2009, at 11:27:17
I don't *think* I'm worried it will end. But then I have been talking about termination a lot the last couple of sessions. At first my therapist played the what if game with me. But at some point he said something like "Wait a minute. None of this is happening or is in danger of happening. This is a discussion built on nothing." So maybe...
It is an anniversary of therapy earlier this month. The fourth. I suppose there may be that looking back aspect still hanging around. But I wasn't thinking about his behavior in those days until he specifically asked me what it was about him that I liked, as opposed to all those other therapists. Which led me to think about it and wonder myself. :)
As you know, I'm very realistic about my therapists strengths and weaknesses. But lately I've begun to have the uneasy feeling that I'm still idealizing him. Although I haven't for the life of me figured out how.
Posted by Dinah on April 22, 2009, at 18:49:36
In reply to Re: Feeling melancholy » Dinah, posted by seldomseen on April 22, 2009, at 16:29:50
> the fact you thought he didn't like you, the dress/make-up thing. It doesn't sound as though you two were just reminiscing.
I think this might be the key to what else is bothering me. That both the talk of other therapists and the talk of how he felt about me at the beginning tells me that I make a very poor impression on others. None of the other therapists/pdocs liked me any more than I liked them. Even my own therapist, who is one of the most tolerant people I know, didn't much care for me for years. So I'm an unlikeable person who eventually grows on people? That if you really really get to know me, you might grow to find me appealing. But that if you don't, you most definitely won't.
That's kind of a melancholy self observation.
Yet sadly accurate I fear.
Posted by Dinah on April 22, 2009, at 18:55:05
In reply to Re: Feeling melancholy » Dinah, posted by MollieQ on April 22, 2009, at 17:34:48
Remembered pain may well be part of it too. It was very painful to feel like my therapist didn't much like or respect me. I hated my attachment to someone who not only wasn't attached, but was mildly averse to my company. No matter how much he was trying to like me. Not that he precisely admitted that of course.
But my other observations were accurate. He practically shooed away a thought balloon when I said I used to be able to hear him think "What the h*ll am I supposed to do with *that*." Another thing that one doesn't really want to have their therapist think about them.
Yes, he understands me now, after years of knowing me. But again, I'm weird enough to confuse a therapist until he gets to know me.
:(
He mentioned that it was hard for him to establish a connection with me. Of course on my side it wasn't hard at all for him. I was just too ashamed of it, given the circumstances.
Posted by FindingMyDesire on April 22, 2009, at 23:15:57
In reply to Re: Feeling melancholy » seldomseen, posted by Dinah on April 22, 2009, at 18:49:36
> So I'm an unlikeable person who eventually grows on people? That if you really really get to know me, you might grow to find me appealing. But that if you don't, you most definitely won't.
>
> That's kind of a melancholy self observation.
>
> Yet sadly accurate I fear.Oh Dinah,
I *really* want to respond to this. I'm so very compelled I have to ask myself what just got triggered for me...I say almost the same thing but in reverse. If someone "truly" got to know me they wouldn't like me and *then* I would get rejected for sure...
I guess what I can say is that you are one of the most thoughtful, helpful people on this board.
Then I think of what my T is always telling me about valuing me just for being me and not for what I "do" for others or what "actions" I take.
So, then I will reword my statement.
Dinah,
Based on what I know of your heart and mind from reading what you post on this board, you are totally wonderful and lovable person. Really.Beyond my comments, I can say I hear your melancholiness. (Did I just make that word up?) And it always feels hard to pull myself out of that feeling. I hope that our posts help. So many people here care about you. And you do have such a wonderful relationship with your T.
And then I feel saying that doesn't help...
I just think sometimes sadness or states of melancholy-ish feelings are some of the hardest to shake. It doesn't feel like you can do anything about them until they pass, huh?
Anyway, lots of care and support your way.
FMD
Posted by 10derHeart on April 23, 2009, at 1:46:10
In reply to Re: Feeling melancholy » seldomseen, posted by Dinah on April 22, 2009, at 18:49:36
Will it help if I tell you that when I first found Babble, before I was even brave enough to post, that I already liked you? That your "first impression" on me was a major force is making me want to stay here? That once I did join in here, I liked you even more? That once I'd been here for several years, I only liked you more and more?
Bah humbug on therapists (yours included!) who take/took so long to like you. They were obviously missing something we all see here....and it doesn't take any time at all to see it and it's all good....
Posted by TherapyGirl on April 23, 2009, at 6:08:37
In reply to Re: Feeling melancholy » Dinah, posted by 10derHeart on April 23, 2009, at 1:46:10
I totally agree with 10der. I was here about a year before I was brave enough to post. And I've liked you even more after I got to actually interact with you.
Posted by antigua3 on April 23, 2009, at 7:26:52
In reply to Re: Feeling melancholy, posted by TherapyGirl on April 23, 2009, at 6:08:37
I agree with 10derHeart. I lurked for a long while before posting and it was your posts, among a few others, that gave me the courage to join. Your responses are always very thoughtful, and I, too, liked you right away.
I'm sorry you're feeling this way. I'm no help for anyone else right now, but I did want to send an encouraging message your way.
antigua
Posted by Dinah on April 23, 2009, at 7:42:16
In reply to Re: Feeling melancholy, posted by antigua3 on April 23, 2009, at 7:26:52
Now I'm smiling, and a bit misty.
I sometimes wish I was Dinah. :) I think in person I'm anxious and stiff and tend to say all the wrong things. People tend to think I'm a snob. And of course, there's the unfortunate physical appearance. Part of which I can't help. Part of it I could help if I tried. I never try. For some reason it's even worse with mental health professionals. My therapist says they get the feeling they need to fix me, when really they don't.
I should be happy that he appreciates me now. I am in fact. And of course I'm very happy Babble is in my life. I've even found an IRL social group of very accepting people who look past the surface stuff. I even have a husband who sees the occasionally handsome girl I was overlaid on what I am now.
With any luck I'll never have to find another therapist.
Ok, I'll officially give myself a little slap right now, and end my feeling sorry for myself. I'm really the most fortunate of souls.
Thank you you guys, for reminding me of that.
Posted by antigua3 on April 23, 2009, at 7:56:07
In reply to Re: Feeling melancholy, posted by Dinah on April 23, 2009, at 7:42:16
You ARE Dinah, inside, in your heart and your kindness. Please don't forget that.
antigua
Posted by Dinah on April 23, 2009, at 9:12:57
In reply to Re: Feeling melancholy » Dinah, posted by antigua3 on April 23, 2009, at 7:56:07
My therapist tells me that all the time. That I *am* Dinah. I find it so hard to believe. I know that sounds weird, but it's true.
Posted by SLS on April 23, 2009, at 9:30:44
In reply to Feeling melancholy, posted by Dinah on April 21, 2009, at 19:07:21
Hi Dinah.
You are uniquely wonderful, regardless of how you try to understand yourself. You are accepted by me in your entirety, especially for the positive core of your being that I am pretty sure I can see.
I put together a long reply yesterday acting as an armchair psychotherapist. I decided not to post it because I wasn't comfortable with what I had written. I offered too many scenarios.
For instance, perhaps you no longer have a white whale to conquer. Worse than that, perhaps you need not have spent so many years chasing it when the answer now seems so simple. Lost years?
I don't know.
I have other possible explanations, but I imagine that you have explored them already.
- Scott
Posted by MollieQ on April 23, 2009, at 10:48:55
In reply to Feeling melancholy, posted by Dinah on April 21, 2009, at 19:07:21
You know, Dinah, one thing that makes *me* feel sad is that in relating the history of past misattunements with your T, you seem to be accepting full responsibility. It is *you* who is hard to understand, odd, hard to like, something of a strange species. I suspect that is how you really see yourself. But I have to say that sometimes I have had the feeling that your T can fall a little short in the empathy department. He doesn't apologize when he might because he sees nothing wrong - although you certainly do, and I'll warrant you would be quick to apologize if you thought you had something to apologize for. I know how hard it can be, how entrenched the habit can be, to drop the view that it is the bad/unpleasant/odd things about us that cause our misfortunes and misattunements with others. Perhaps our idealizations help to keep those ideas firmly in place.
But as you can see (and I count myself as another who came to this site after reading your thoughtful posts), you are widely liked and respected here, your idiosyncracies of thought and character are loved and appreciated here. If you are an "odd little creature," then I find I enjoy and value such creatures and wish I knew more of them.
Please don't think I am trying to diss your T. I know you have a close and rich relationship that is very nurturing. I am only trying to point out that I think you are taking burdens onto yourself that should be shared. If someone finds someone else unlikeable, isn't that a mutual construction? And couldn't it just as well be an empathic failure on the part of the person who is judging, as much as an "accurate" perception of the qualities of the person being judged?
And the fact that you have seen a lot of MH people out there who you didn't like, and vice versa, just bears out that these are mutual constructions. There is nothing wrong with being picky, especially if it is your heart and inner being that are going to be under the microscope and knife. Anyway, most people I know who have gone into long-term therapy (at least if they live in an area where there are choices), have scored a workable match only after trying MANY other relationships, maybe half dozen or more. This is a testament to our uniqueness not (un)likeability. And most people won't like someone who they sense doesn't like them. Again, this is a shared thing, it is not just due to "who you are." There is nothing wrong with who you are.
We like who you are.
Mollie
Posted by workinprogress on April 23, 2009, at 11:30:47
In reply to Re: Feeling melancholy, posted by Dinah on April 23, 2009, at 7:42:16
Is it too late to join? I too have found you to be ever present, supportive, insightful, kind, interesting, thoughtful, and most importantly... you helped me feel less alone.
Dinah, your comments about your appearance strike me as related to the conversation being had in Europe and the States about Susan Boyle. If you all haven't seen the video on You Tube, please check it out. Babble has the advantage of stripping away our preconceived notions of one another.
Though, not being able to see folks also seems a hinderance at times. I feel like I have a hard time separating out and remembering people's "stories" when I don't have a face to put them with and when I sometimes miss pieces of the conversation. I'm amazed at how some of you do it for each other and I wish I could do the same. And Dinah, it's another thing you do quite well and it helps to make us all feel welcome and noticed.
(((((Dinah)))))))
> Now I'm smiling, and a bit misty.
>
> I sometimes wish I was Dinah. :) I think in person I'm anxious and stiff and tend to say all the wrong things. People tend to think I'm a snob. And of course, there's the unfortunate physical appearance. Part of which I can't help. Part of it I could help if I tried. I never try. For some reason it's even worse with mental health professionals. My therapist says they get the feeling they need to fix me, when really they don't.
>
> I should be happy that he appreciates me now. I am in fact. And of course I'm very happy Babble is in my life. I've even found an IRL social group of very accepting people who look past the surface stuff. I even have a husband who sees the occasionally handsome girl I was overlaid on what I am now.
>
> With any luck I'll never have to find another therapist.
>
> Ok, I'll officially give myself a little slap right now, and end my feeling sorry for myself. I'm really the most fortunate of souls.
>
> Thank you you guys, for reminding me of that.
Posted by 10derHeart on April 23, 2009, at 14:19:02
In reply to Re: Feeling melancholy » Dinah, posted by MollieQ on April 23, 2009, at 10:48:55
Posted by raisinb on April 23, 2009, at 17:20:54
In reply to I missed out on the Dinah fan club.., posted by workinprogress on April 23, 2009, at 11:30:47
I second all the wonderful things people have said about you :) I hope you're feeling better and I hope seeing how much everyone values you has helped :)
(((Dinah)))
Posted by Dinah on April 24, 2009, at 16:25:04
In reply to Re: Feeling melancholy » Dinah, posted by SLS on April 23, 2009, at 9:30:44
> Hi Dinah.
>
> You are uniquely wonderful, regardless of how you try to understand yourself. You are accepted by me in your entirety, especially for the positive core of your being that I am pretty sure I can see.
>
> I put together a long reply yesterday acting as an armchair psychotherapist. I decided not to post it because I wasn't comfortable with what I had written. I offered too many scenarios.
>
> For instance, perhaps you no longer have a white whale to conquer. Worse than that, perhaps you need not have spent so many years chasing it when the answer now seems so simple. Lost years?
>
> I don't know.
>
> I have other possible explanations, but I imagine that you have explored them already.
>
>
> - Scott
>Thanks, Scott. That means a lot to me.
I'd actually welcome your thoughts. From what you've said over time, I think your therapist might approach things a bit differently than mine. However thoroughly therapized I may be, it's mostly in the same direction.
White whale? Did you have anything in particular in mind?
Posted by Dinah on April 24, 2009, at 16:38:52
In reply to Re: Feeling melancholy » Dinah, posted by MollieQ on April 23, 2009, at 10:48:55
Thank you. :)
I have an embarrassment of riches on Babble. I consider myself so fortunate to know so many wonderful people here. It's probably a bit self pitying of me to worry myself about what impression I make on many people.
My therapist and I talked a lot about this today. I ended up with a post-therapy migraine for the first time in a very long time. To his credit, when I pointed out that he had acknowledged his fault but not expressed regret for causing me pain, he did apologize more personally. But not for long. He's an immensely resilient guy in part because he doesn't dwell on these things much. But you're right. Empathy isn't really his strength.
Neither is dwelling on unpleasantness. He was very frustrated with my "negativity" towards myself today, until I pointed out that self image and body image is such a horrendously difficult thing to talk about. And I was showing him a great deal of trust to talk about it with him.
He thinks that the reason I don't get along with mental health professionals is that most of them see me as in need of "fixing". And I resist being fixed. He says that perhaps he did too at one time. But that he doesn't any more.
I suspect, from my post therapy migraine if nothing else, that this is an area that has not yet been adequately addressed in therapy. I hope my therapist is up to addressing it.
Everyone likes my therapist, and he is generally accounted as attractive. (It's difficult for me to assess that really, towards a therapist/mommy. But my husband and mother assure me he is attractive.) So he's going to have to dredge up some imagination and empathy.
I really do think you're right about my therapist and perhaps about the others too. But it's hard, when there seems to be a lot of negative reaction towards me, not to conclude that whatever is going on with others, some of it must have to do with me.
Posted by Dinah on April 24, 2009, at 16:46:19
In reply to I missed out on the Dinah fan club.., posted by workinprogress on April 23, 2009, at 11:30:47
Well, now I'm going to blush along with my smile. :)
Thank you. I really do appreciate it.
I wish I could find a way to be "Dinah" in real life. I wonder if it's the asynchronous nature of the internet that gives me time to reflect before I speak. Or if I just am nervous around people and freeze up.
I didn't have time to post this morning before therapy, but I did look up Susan Boyle on the internet. It definitely caused a reaction in me. I think my favorite quote from the comments was:
"We are shallow to expect nothing special from an ordinary middle-aged
woman...but then she sings and she has the most beautiful voice and all of a
sudden she's SOMEONE special and we're ashamed because we pre-judged
her as a NOBODY. BUT that still makes us shallow - worse than shallow -
because WHAT IF SHE COULDN'T SING...?"I guess that's how I feel. Like I open my mouth, and have a pleasant enough voice, but nothing special, and everyone thinks the cover represents the book, and I'm not worth much at all. My therapist tells me that I am special when I open my mouth, and I suppose I am humbled by the fact that many of you echo that thought.
My therapist brought her up today too, so I'm glad I had a chance to watch the video.
Thank you.
Posted by Dinah on April 24, 2009, at 16:47:42
In reply to Re: I missed out on the Dinah fan club.. » workinprogress, posted by raisinb on April 23, 2009, at 17:20:54
Thank you. It does. :)
Posted by SLS on April 24, 2009, at 17:06:57
In reply to Re: Feeling melancholy » SLS, posted by Dinah on April 24, 2009, at 16:25:04
Hi Dinah.
> White whale? Did you have anything in particular in mind?
Yes. I thought that perhaps your notion of finally "earning" being liked by your therapist was some sort of fulfilled desire of yours, and that having obtained it, you find that it was quite anticlimactic and not of profound significance. If it doesn't apply here, I guess the metaphor can be of use in other aspects of your life where you have chased something that never needed chasing. In general, I think it can be melancholy to realize how much time and effort was put into something that really didn't deserve being such an obsession. Lost years.
It is not important to me that any of my ideas be right. It is important to me that you find solace in understanding, no matter where such understanding comes from.
You are so loved here.
- Scott
Posted by Dinah on April 24, 2009, at 17:37:55
In reply to Re: Feeling melancholy » Dinah, posted by SLS on April 24, 2009, at 17:06:57
> Yes. I thought that perhaps your notion of finally "earning" being liked by your therapist was some sort of fulfilled desire of yours, and that having obtained it, you find that it was quite anticlimactic and not of profound significance. If it doesn't apply here, I guess the metaphor can be of use in other aspects of your life where you have chased something that never needed chasing. In general, I think it can be melancholy to realize how much time and effort was put into something that really didn't deserve being such an obsession. Lost years.
Chuckle. I feel like you really have grasped that aspect of my character. I have worked, in my own convoluted and strictly scrupulous way, to earn love from my therapist. I've always valued love earned more than love freely given. My therapist says I'm very bad at accepting grace. I daresay that goes back to my relationship with my parents. I always laugh that I was well compensated with love.But having gotten it, I think I value it very much. Love from someone I care a lot about, and who really has very little in common with me in any way, could never be considered by me to be anything but profoundly significant. I do occasionally worry that that particular achievement can drain energy from therapy.
In other aspects of my life... Perhaps. I've always been a person with very realistic, and not terribly challenging, goals. I'm quite lazy, I'm afraid. Perhaps my problem is that having achieved this goal, I'm at loose ends for another one. I suppose home improvement is not the same sort of goal.
I could aim to have my husband approve of me. But *that* is an impossible dream, and I'm not given to pursuing impossible dreams. At least not outside the safe haven of therapy.
Posted by antigua3 on April 24, 2009, at 19:28:42
In reply to Re: Feeling melancholy » Dinah, posted by SLS on April 24, 2009, at 17:06:57
>>I guess the metaphor can be of use in other aspects of your life where you have chased something that never needed chasing. In general, I think it can be melancholy to realize how much time and effort was put into something that really didn't deserve being such an obsession. Lost years.
>
Interesting idea, but I couldn't ever let myself believe that they were "lost" years because that would be too devastating. I prefer to think of discovering things like this that they were earned insights that for whatever reasons had to be obtained.It's like my pdoc asking me the other day if I had any regrets at how my life had worked out, knowing that my warped beliefs colored every area of my life. Yes, of course, I have regrets, some very shameful ones, but I decided a long time ago that I couldn't go down that path because I am who I am, illness/whatever and all, and I have to believe that some good came out of the effort.
Sorry for jumping in Dinah.
Thanks for the thought Scott.
antigua
Posted by SLS on April 24, 2009, at 20:36:55
In reply to Re: Feeling melancholy » SLS, posted by antigua3 on April 24, 2009, at 19:28:42
> > Lost years.
> Interesting idea, but I couldn't ever let myself believe that they were "lost" years because that would be too devastating. I prefer to think of discovering things like this that they were earned insights that for whatever reasons had to be obtained.
>
> It's like my pdoc asking me the other day if I had any regrets at how my life had worked out, knowing that my warped beliefs colored every area of my life. Yes, of course, I have regrets, some very shameful ones, but I decided a long time ago that I couldn't go down that path because I am who I am, illness/whatever and all, and I have to believe that some good came out of the effort.
>
> Sorry for jumping in Dinah.
> Thanks for the thought Scott.
> antigua
For me, the lost decades have been difficult for me to accept. They still haunt me sometimes. However, I have gone through a grieving process such that I now accept the loss. I imagine there will be more grieving that I will be confronted with every now and then. However, I am ready to move on. What a gift it is to have received such a genuine improvement in my condition. I thank God every day for it. When I look at the grand scheme of things, I am grateful for an opportunity to find happiness that is not granted to everyone. Yes, I did work for it, but I consider myself blessed to have had the resources to do so.Thanks for reminding me to create a gratitude list.
- Scott
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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