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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by lucie lu on March 5, 2009, at 18:26:42
My DH and I were in couples therapy this evening, as we have been for the past couple of months and its been going OK. But tonight, we touched upon sensitive subjects, and I went into a full-fledged meltdown. The T knows about my trauma background and has been sensitive to it, and quite honestly so has my DH. It was the subject matter, a problem between us that replicates my past, and I just lost it. I was crying hard and so angry, I was beyond rage. I'm glad there were no weapons handy. The T saw that major buttons had been pushed and was concerned because it was the end of the session and I was a mess. Next week he wants to do a double session, which he normally doesnt do, so we can address these areas but provide me with some sense of safety. I dont feel at all safe now, I feel like I am flipping back and forth between now and then, and then wasnt a very safe place to be. Right now I've pretty much barricaded myself in the bedroom and I'm not sure when I'll come out. My DH, to his credit, is giving me a wide berth.
Im not sure how to express this, but it can be devastating to realize how thin the line can be between feeling like a civilized being and having these primal feelings erupt and spin so completelt out of control. That realization means that nothing feels safe anymore. Do we ever really rejoin the human race.
Posted by Dinah on March 5, 2009, at 18:51:55
In reply to OMG Meltdown in session, posted by lucie lu on March 5, 2009, at 18:26:42
Posted by TherapyGirl on March 5, 2009, at 19:12:40
In reply to OMG Meltdown in session, posted by lucie lu on March 5, 2009, at 18:26:42
Lucie, you know as well as anyone that I understand about the extreme thinness of that line. I am so sorry you're going through this. I'm there with you in spirit -- you feel like a sister to me, you know.
Hang in there, okay? Do what you can to make yourself feel safe again. I know everyone is different about what works for them, but I suspect you have some fallback safety things to do.
((((((((((Lucie))))))))))
You are human even when it's like this. Really. I know how this feels, but you are a wonderful, warm, loving person. Hang on to that if nothing else.
Posted by FindingMyDesire on March 5, 2009, at 21:20:52
In reply to OMG Meltdown in session, posted by lucie lu on March 5, 2009, at 18:26:42
Lucie,
I'm sorry to hear about this pain and fear. I'm glad for the plan for a double session, and yet it sounds so hard to be in the moment(s) right now. I'm glad you are posting.I'm thinking of you,
FMD
Posted by obsidian on March 5, 2009, at 21:30:28
In reply to OMG Meltdown in session, posted by lucie lu on March 5, 2009, at 18:26:42
I'm glad you'll be getting more time in session to deal with stuff that comes up.
You are human, so very human and thus so very capable of feeling pain deep down and at so primal a level. Are you on high alert??Funny sometimes how feelings just burst forth and kick your *ss. I've had the experience of being like "what the hell was that?!" and scaring myself and other people probably too.
Too much energy can be expended keeping it all down though and it can actually be a good thing it's coming out now (feel free to tell me to go to hell if that comment sounds ridiculous).Be very nice to yourself right now.
((((lucie)))
Posted by antigua3 on March 5, 2009, at 22:07:46
In reply to OMG Meltdown in session, posted by lucie lu on March 5, 2009, at 18:26:42
When do you see your own T? I think this would help a lot.
It's hard to let others see this part of ourselves. I've never had the strength to show my husband any of it, so I'm really impressed you were able to do this.
It's so hard because we never really know what will trigger this. But speaking about something that is intimate, that is happening now but triggers demons from out past must be incredibly painful.
I'm sorry, lucie. I hope your T can help.
antigua
Posted by seldomseen on March 6, 2009, at 6:11:11
In reply to OMG Meltdown in session, posted by lucie lu on March 5, 2009, at 18:26:42
I'm so sorry that you had to experience all those feelings. As other have indicated, I think you are very strong to express them in front of other people. It takes a lot of courage to let them surface at all.
I spend a lot of time on the wild side of things and, as I've said, am particularly comfortable around most things non-human.
In my opinion, the expression and feeling of very primal, sometimes even murderous thoughts doesn't preclude us from being human, in fact, I think it puts us squarely in the entirely human realm.
I've been spending a lot of time around my nieces and nephews lately and one could argue that they are just a feral as any wild animal I've come across. I've observed the way that they experince and express emotion and it is quite intense and hurtful to them (poor little things), but they are learning to regulate and cope with these emotions because they have a great mom.
I don't know your history, but I grew up in a harsh (understatement) environment where my feelings were punished,I learned very very quickly not to express them, which then translated into just not having them. Far from the safe environment that fosters development. Therefore, I never learned how to deal with these all too human emotions in an effective, healthy way. So when they did come up later in life, they hurt - a lot.
I think the way you feel is all too human, and although it hurts right now, these feelings can be wrangled and modulated to be less painful.
Please take care and try to be a good mother to yourself.
Peace
Seldom.
Posted by lucie lu on March 6, 2009, at 7:59:18
In reply to OMG Meltdown in session, posted by lucie lu on March 5, 2009, at 18:26:42
Thank you all so much for the support, caring, and encouragement. I couldn't think of anyone I wanted to reach out to more last night than you all on Babble. I knew you'd understand.
Although I simply couldn't contain the powerful emotions set off by the session, I do agree that they are an important step toward healing. (Seldom, both of my parents were alcoholic and I was the oldest sibling, role reversal etc, classic ACOA). So some of the emotional power certainly was related to the past. But some was from the present and my relationship with my DH. He has some major issues of his own, which he has more or less refused to acknowledge and has managed to sidestep over the years by gaslighting me and focusing on my mental health problems. My long-standing anger about both histories just erupted during the session. This is why we are in couples therapy, to clear these things out and express the unexpressable, so this was good for me, and I think ultimately for us, even if it came out in an uncontrolled manner. But I realize now that I had faith that the couples T could handle it (he's good) and that, at least in that setting, my DH could too. He couldn't have, prior to starting his own therapy recently. This was a welcome development to me, needless to say.
There is a separate problem involving my own T, which I'll post about later. There has been a growing rupture(obvious to me)over the past couple of months but he seems clueless. He doesn't really seem to be acknowledging it even though I've been raising it in almost every session. I even had a few sessions recently with a consultant, who I've seen before, to talk over my concerns. This time, though, I didn't tell my regular T about visiting the consultant. That says something about my eroding trust. I will see him later today. I hope we get somewhere.
So although I think the general direction is forward, this is a pretty shaky and tumultuous time for me right now on all fronts and I'm feeling very vulnerable and confused.
So thanks again for your warm thoughts and messages.
Love you all.
Lucie
Posted by TherapyGirl on March 6, 2009, at 8:31:32
In reply to Re: OMG Meltdown in session, posted by lucie lu on March 6, 2009, at 7:59:18
It sounds like intense and very hard work, but my Lord, I'm so proud of you for doing it.
I hope when you've gotten beyond the intense, triggering part that you will take a minute and pat yourself on the back.
((((((Lucie))))))
Posted by lucie lu on March 6, 2009, at 9:24:29
In reply to Re: OMG Meltdown in session » lucie lu, posted by TherapyGirl on March 6, 2009, at 8:31:32
> It sounds like intense and very hard work, but my Lord, I'm so proud of you for doing it.
>
> I hope when you've gotten beyond the intense, triggering part that you will take a minute and pat yourself on the back.
>
> ((((((Lucie))))))
Does having chocolate ice cream for breakfast count? Because that's what I made for myself this morning :)
Posted by antigua3 on March 6, 2009, at 9:32:48
In reply to Re: OMG Meltdown in session, posted by lucie lu on March 6, 2009, at 7:59:18
I can't express how sorry I am that you're going through all this right now. Especially w/the rupture w/your T. You're doing the right thing by constantly bringing it up (like I do with my darned pdoc!), but he either isn't hearing you or is clueless, in which case seeking consultation is probably the right course of action.
Of course it certainly doesn't help to go through this w/o his support. My heart aches for you. You sound like me: When is enough simply enought? How hard do we have to keep pushing when we're not getting what we need in return? Or feel like we're really not being heard?
I hope things go better this afternoon w/him.
antigua
Posted by lucie lu on March 6, 2009, at 9:51:17
In reply to Re: OMG Meltdown in session » lucie lu, posted by antigua3 on March 6, 2009, at 9:32:48
> I can't express how sorry I am that you're going through all this right now. Especially w/the rupture w/your T. You're doing the right thing by constantly bringing it up (like I do with my darned pdoc!), but he either isn't hearing you or is clueless, in which case seeking consultation is probably the right course of action.
>
> Of course it certainly doesn't help to go through this w/o his support. My heart aches for you. You sound like me: When is enough simply enought? How hard do we have to keep pushing when we're not getting what we need in return? Or feel like we're really not being heard?
>
> I hope things go better this afternoon w/him.
> antiguaThanks, Antigua. I know you understand all too well. It is such an important relationship and packs so much emotional punch. It is so important to us that it succeed and can be heart-breaking when it doesn't.
I was thinking of you with your T and pdoc when I saw the consultant, who I really like a lot. I saw her 3 times last fall and another 3 times more recently. These short-term consultations have been very helpful, I think, in helping me sort out things that deeply trouble me in my relationship with my T. I find myself wishing that I could see her too just to work on things that arise in my relationship with my T (lol). I read about something like that in a book. This woman client was seeing a pdoc/T and was making big positive changes in most aspects of her life. However, even while she was making all these positive changes in her life, she was getting more and more anxious and depressed when she met with her T. She sought consultation with a woman T, and in the end saw her regularly to help her deal with her worries about her pdoc! Apparently this arrangement worked surprisingly well and she was able to finish her therapy having met most of her goals and was no longer depressed. (She must have had great insurance.)
Posted by TherapyGirl on March 6, 2009, at 9:52:40
In reply to Re: OMG Meltdown in session » TherapyGirl, posted by lucie lu on March 6, 2009, at 9:24:29
It does count and I'm jealous. Of course, I've been eating mini-M&Ms like scales don't exist, so what do I know? LOL
Posted by lucie lu on March 6, 2009, at 9:54:00
In reply to Re: OMG Meltdown in session » lucie lu, posted by obsidian on March 5, 2009, at 21:30:28
> I'm glad you'll be getting more time in session to deal with stuff that comes up.
> You are human, so very human and thus so very capable of feeling pain deep down and at so primal a level. Are you on high alert??
>
> Funny sometimes how feelings just burst forth and kick your *ss. I've had the experience of being like "what the hell was that?!" and scaring myself and other people probably too.
> Too much energy can be expended keeping it all down though and it can actually be a good thing it's coming out now (feel free to tell me to go to hell if that comment sounds ridiculous).It sounds anything but ridiculous, Sid. You are right on.
> Be very nice to yourself right now.
> ((((lucie)))Thanks :)
Posted by lucie lu on March 6, 2009, at 10:04:36
In reply to Re: OMG Meltdown in session » lucie lu, posted by seldomseen on March 6, 2009, at 6:11:11
> I'm so sorry that you had to experience all those feelings. As other have indicated, I think you are very strong to express them in front of other people. It takes a lot of courage to let them surface at all.
>
> I spend a lot of time on the wild side of things and, as I've said, am particularly comfortable around most things non-human.
>
> In my opinion, the expression and feeling of very primal, sometimes even murderous thoughts doesn't preclude us from being human, in fact, I think it puts us squarely in the entirely human realm.
>
> I've been spending a lot of time around my nieces and nephews lately and one could argue that they are just a feral as any wild animal I've come across. I've observed the way that they experince and express emotion and it is quite intense and hurtful to them (poor little things), but they are learning to regulate and cope with these emotions because they have a great mom.
>
> I don't know your history, but I grew up in a harsh (understatement) environment where my feelings were punished,I learned very very quickly not to express them, which then translated into just not having them. Far from the safe environment that fosters development. Therefore, I never learned how to deal with these all too human emotions in an effective, healthy way. So when they did come up later in life, they hurt - a lot.
>
> I think the way you feel is all too human, and although it hurts right now, these feelings can be wrangled and modulated to be less painful.
>
> Please take care and try to be a good mother to yourself.
>
> Peace
>
> Seldom.I love hearing that your sister is such a great mom and does such a good job of mothering your nieces and nephews. It always amazes me when people who have had such tough upbringings manage to not repeat the experience with their own kids and often do such a wonderful job at it. I wish I'd had therapy earlier, my kids might have been able to avoid a couple of tough years. But all in all, I think I've done reasonably well, much better than I had it growing up.
I am an animal person too, and I know what you are saying. Strong bonds that form both within species and interspecies in social animals arouse powerful emotions in them too. Late last night I hugged my dog for a very long time as I was trying to get back to sleep. He just stood there, gravely and patiently, gently leaning into me. When I released him finally, he almost tiptoed away from me to go lie down in his own bed.
Posted by lucie lu on March 6, 2009, at 10:07:34
In reply to Re: OMG Meltdown in session, posted by FindingMyDesire on March 5, 2009, at 21:20:52
Posted by lucie lu on March 6, 2009, at 10:10:05
In reply to Re: OMG Meltdown in session, posted by lucie lu on March 6, 2009, at 9:54:00
Posted by lucie lu on March 6, 2009, at 10:13:40
In reply to Re: OMG Meltdown in session » lucie lu, posted by TherapyGirl on March 6, 2009, at 9:52:40
Posted by TherapyGirl on March 6, 2009, at 10:43:43
In reply to If only meltdowns worked on fat ;) (nm) » TherapyGirl, posted by lucie lu on March 6, 2009, at 10:13:40
Posted by workinprogress on March 6, 2009, at 10:51:43
In reply to OMG Meltdown in session, posted by lucie lu on March 5, 2009, at 18:26:42
Lucie,
Sorry I couldn't do more than a virtual hug last night- I worked until midnight and didn't have faith that I could share anything coherent. Rested now, but I don't know that I have anything to add that others haven't already said.
But, regardless, I wanted to offer support and acknowledgment that you are tackling A LOT right now and under perfect circumstances that would be hard. But, it sounds like you don't quite have those perfect circumstances. So, I'd say, be kind to yourself, take care of yourself, keep doing what you're doing... and eat chocolate ice cream for breakfast occasionally! You deserve it!
And keep coming back here of course, because you have a big fan club here!
Posted by rskontos on March 6, 2009, at 15:32:28
In reply to Re: OMG Meltdown in session » lucie lu, posted by workinprogress on March 6, 2009, at 10:51:43
Hey sweetie, I wanted to express my feelings too that are a duplicate of WIP in that I can't add much more to all the wonderful support you have already rec'd.
But I do understand how you feel, that anger. Man o man I hate when I get so worked up especially directed toward situations that remind us things we'd like to forget, can't forget, and impact us so strong and often beyond our abilities to rein in.
That said, I am one too that never talks to Dh or family about my past, the trauma, nor do they even know about my DX.
((((((Lucie)))))))
I hope you have some peace today. I am going now to eat chips as I have a salty taste thing versus chocolate.
take care, and remember no matter how inhuman we all feel due to what we went through in our youth/childhood, and when those feelings threatened to overwhelm us, we are and will always be human no matter how we feel.
And you are a special person so don't beat up on yourself,
rsk
Posted by DAisym on March 6, 2009, at 20:33:23
In reply to Re: OMG Meltdown in session, posted by lucie lu on March 6, 2009, at 7:59:18
Is it possible that as you work on these issues with your husband that your therapist is getting some of the anger that still isn't safe to express in couples therapy? And/or, he isn't in the therapy room to keep you safe from all the hurt that comes up in those sessions so you feel abandoned by him? Of course none of this is being done or felt at a conscience level - it just might be really old feelings of no one being there for you. I could be all wet, but it was the first thing I thought of as you put these things together.
We've long had a joke around here that Babble is actually therapy for therapy. I've only had one consultation around something that happened in therapy so I don't really know what you are working on. But I think we all have to guard against trying to get someone else to tell us how to manage our feelings for our therapists, without diluting them so that they aren't coming into the session. Trust is a really fragile thing, even after all these years. How do you think he will feel if/when you tell him you are getting consultation? I imagine he'll be sad that the trust has deteriorated that much.
I hope you had a good session today.
Posted by lucie lu on March 7, 2009, at 13:05:52
In reply to Re: OMG Meltdown in session/Lucie, posted by rskontos on March 6, 2009, at 15:32:28
Thank you both for your warmth, support and encouragement. I really meant it when I said that when I was feeling so upset that night, nothing could have helped me more than reaching out to other Babblers. As you both know, it doesn't even matter what is said sometimes, it is the lovingness and connection we get from each other that helps more than anything :)
Posted by lucie lu on March 7, 2009, at 13:39:56
In reply to Re: OMG Meltdown in session » lucie lu, posted by DAisym on March 6, 2009, at 20:33:23
> Is it possible that as you work on these issues with your husband that your therapist is getting some of the anger that still isn't safe to express in couples therapy? And/or, he isn't in the therapy room to keep you safe from all the hurt that comes up in those sessions so you feel abandoned by him? Of course none of this is being done or felt at a conscience level - it just might be really old feelings of no one being there for you. I could be all wet, but it was the first thing I thought of as you put these things together.
>
> We've long had a joke around here that Babble is actually therapy for therapy. I've only had one consultation around something that happened in therapy so I don't really know what you are working on. But I think we all have to guard against trying to get someone else to tell us how to manage our feelings for our therapists, without diluting them so that they aren't coming into the session. Trust is a really fragile thing, even after all these years. How do you think he will feel if/when you tell him you are getting consultation? I imagine he'll be sad that the trust has deteriorated that much.
>
> I hope you had a good session today.Hi Daisy, welcome back. You've had a pretty rough week yourself.
There seems to be plenty of anger to go around these days. I think that while expressing anger to my DH may be the more cathartic, even trying to take such a risk with my T is probably equally important in its own right. With him, anger and other negative emotions feel so threatening because in my experience, no relationship has been healthy enough to withstand them. I need to unlearn this.
And the business of not telling him about the consultation this time is interesting. The last time I saw the consultant, last fall, I did end up telling my T. It felt like holding back my sins in confession, you know? In other words, I was afraid to not tell him, it was simply not a choice. This time felt different. I felt angry and alienated, for a start. But also this time there was this funny, almost "you're not the boss of me, so there!" rebellious tone to it. It was like a teenager wanting to deal with things her own way, even if it might not be the best by adult standards. I haven't decided if I will tell him or not. I probably will in the end because I know secrets between us are bad. And he may well be sad/angry/disappointed in me but it will be like a parent finding out their child sneaked out after hours. But one thing I will make a concerted effort to resist doing is to try to take care of his feelings for him, even if it is my fault. This is a whole new area for me to be working on and really seems to be opening up new possibilities, as I wrote in the thread below.
BTW... I remember an earlier post from a while ago, Daisy, where you said you felt like a thread-killer because living on the west coast, you are often the last to respond. But I think that you might want to see this in a more positive light, namely that it is a compliment to be considered "the last word" on any topic :)
This is the end of the thread.
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