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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by lucie lu on September 9, 2008, at 22:54:47
Id like to raise a general issue. Its not aimed at anyone in particular, and Im not perfect either its just MHO. Its about acknowledging replies to posts, which most people do, but I think we could maybe do just a little better. Most posters have concerns, a problem they are wrestling with, are feeling bad or discouraged, want feedback, need comfort or whatever. And hope someone will reply to their post. Replying, especially to someone who needs help or support, takes thought, good will, the desire to connect, and time to write what you hope will be a useful reply. (Actually, many replies take considerably longer than a few minutes to write, I suspect, and some are breath-takingly beautiful.) Most people already do, but it doesnt take long to acknowledge replies and posters by name, and I think we should all try extra hard to make the effort. Remember, most of us here feel vulnerable much of the time, so if anything we should be extra sensitive to each other and responsive to whatever help other people extend to us.
Sorry for the soap box. Babble is such a special place. This is just IMHO.
Best,
Lucie
Posted by no_rose_garden on September 9, 2008, at 23:06:35
In reply to an IMHO post, posted by lucie lu on September 9, 2008, at 22:54:47
I wish i had read this before i updated on my last post....I tried to address what ppl said, but didn't name/thank them...I think it would sound stupid/convoluted trying to add/redo it...i guess I'll try. But it seems like a good idea and I will try from now on.
I do really appreciate when ppl reply...sometimes I think nobody will reply, so it's nice when ppl do. I'm just not good at things, i guess.
Posted by Daisym on September 9, 2008, at 23:28:20
In reply to Re: an IMHO post, posted by no_rose_garden on September 9, 2008, at 23:06:35
I think it actually takes a lot of time to respond to each poster individually and by name. Sometimes a person has the energy for it, and sometimes they don't. When Babble started, it was more the norm to reply to "all" or to have an ongoing conversation down the thread with the whole group, instead of one-to-one. It has evolved into this reply to each person, which is why, I think, some people don't post often. They don't have the energy to get back to everyone. And as nice as it is, sometimes there isn't much to say except "thanks for the support" over and over again. As a reader, it can get tedious to click, read that, click, read the same thing, click read it again, etc. So then people only click on their own name - and the community conversation is lost.
I think each person should do what they are comfortable with and we should all embrace a wide array of styles. I know people need comfort and support, but Babble can also be a place of nudging, of alternative ideas, of challenges and of hotly debated topics.
There was a thread many moons ago about taking care of yourself and your own sensitivities here. I think we all need to do that because from day to day we may change what we want or need. Sometimes we post and then run away. Sometimes we want to write novels. Sometimes we only want to read and not reply. Sometimes we are too depressed to do anything. Subject lines are important to inform us of things we should stay away from - or posters avoid other posters because they know they get triggered by that person's "stuff."
I hope I'm not hurting your feelings. I think it is perfectly fine if you want to respond in your way. I just don't want others to feel there is only one "right" way here.
Daisy
Posted by Phillipa on September 9, 2008, at 23:55:38
In reply to I disagree - respectfully, posted by Daisym on September 9, 2008, at 23:28:20
My own personal policy has been to at least let a person know someone has read they thread and cares even if it's a simple one liner the person feels acknowledged. Thank-yous are appreciated but can be done as Thanks everyone. Love Phillipa
Posted by 10derHeart on September 10, 2008, at 0:46:15
In reply to I disagree - respectfully, posted by Daisym on September 9, 2008, at 23:28:20
Thank you so much, Daisy. This is an ongoing issue for me, and I have finally figured out (very possibly just now) 90% of the reason I slowly but surely have ceased posting. When I do, this fear of expectations of behavior I *cannot* possibly promise, or even promise to try to change, often hurts a lot more than the thing I posted about...
>It has evolved into this reply to each person, which is why, I think, some people don't post often.
Yes.
>Sometimes we post and then run away.
I so, so need to be able to do this safely. I know I can here. I don't always understand *why* I can, but I can.
Posted by 10derHeart on September 10, 2008, at 0:53:54
In reply to an IMHO post, posted by lucie lu on September 9, 2008, at 22:54:47
I understand your view, lucie, but I am often, no, almost always, incapable of "trying extra hard to make the effort" to do as you suggest. I wish I could. In the beginning I could - sometimes. Then, for whatever the reason (anxiety-related, I think for not totally sure yet) I couldn't any more.
I'm sorry.
What I've done is choose not to post hardly ever, even when I *really* want to, exactly to avoid this very thing. Funny - I still feel badly about the last time, and the time before that, when I know I didn't reply to people's replies. Really badly. I even remember who the posters are, and am so afraid they resent me or something.
I'm glad you raised the issue - it could be a great discussion.
I'm sorry.
Posted by lucie lu on September 10, 2008, at 7:49:47
In reply to Re: an IMHO post » lucie lu, posted by 10derHeart on September 10, 2008, at 0:53:54
> I understand your view, lucie, but I am often, no, almost always, incapable of "trying extra hard to make the effort" to do as you suggest. I wish I could. In the beginning I could - sometimes. Then, for whatever the reason (anxiety-related, I think for not totally sure yet) I couldn't any more.
>Perhaps the phrase, "trying extra hard" sounds like when you want to tell your kid to do something but try to ask them politely :) And I am no one's mother (no one here, anyway).
You and Daisy usefully raised several reasons a thread might not be replied to, and those points are very valuable to add to the discussion. What I know about you 10der is that you don't post very often and that you have really been hurting. I wish you felt that the board could be more supportive and accepting of you because I personally would like to try to help when you post. The last thing I want is for you to feel so pressured and afraid that you avoid posting altogether.
I am glad that you shared candidly about how you feel because it raises awareness of how some people might be experiencing Babble - and what might make you feel more comfortable.
> What I've done is choose not to post hardly ever, even when I *really* want to, exactly to avoid this very thing. Funny - I still feel badly about the last time, and the time before that, when I know I didn't reply to people's replies. Really badly. I even remember who the posters are, and am so afraid they resent me or something.
I'm really sorry you feel that way. Like homework undone, which was always a spectre for me in school. But I doubt that most people "keep score" on any individual. There's always too much going on and you can't listen and keep track at the same time.
> I'm glad you raised the issue - it could be a great discussion.I hope it is helpful on some level.
I hope you feel you can come on whenever you want to or feel the need.
Best, Lucie
Posted by pegasus on September 10, 2008, at 9:43:47
In reply to an IMHO post, posted by lucie lu on September 9, 2008, at 22:54:47
I've virtually ceased posting over the years, although I read religiously, because of this very issue. I am so strapped for time, between my job, my kid, my internship, that I rarely have enough time to reply to multiple people who might respond. In fact, most of the time, I can't promise that I'll even have time to post a quick thank you meant for everyone who replied. The reality of my life is that I'm stealing time from *somewhere* important if I even read posts (although I do find ways to sneak that in here and there, because the discussions here have been so incredibly helpful for me so often). So then, replying to posts has to get weighed against things like returning a client's phone call today vs. tomorrow, or responding to my (3 yo) daughter's "Mom! Mom! Mom! Can you please help me?".
Thus, I've chosen not to post anymore - even when I have a minute to do so, and the inspiration to say something - so I don't have to hurt anyone here by not thanking them properly. I'd be glad to hear whether that's what people generally prefer.
And . . . I'll admit up front that if anyone replies to me on this one, I might not thank you properly. Sorry! It's not that I'm not thankful!
peg
Posted by lucie lu on September 10, 2008, at 9:51:21
In reply to I disagree - respectfully, posted by Daisym on September 9, 2008, at 23:28:20
Hi Daisy,
Thanks, but my feelings are not hurt. I posted from a more general place wanting to express a viewpoint: challenges, disagreements, stimulating thought, all welcome. You raise a lot of good points and issues, and I agree that a useful focus to the discussion might be about talking about alternative styles and what they mean. I apologize if my comments implied that there was a set of rules that everyone had to follow. I personally have authority issues and would run from a board that had rigid expectations. Plus performance anxiety :{ So that's not what I was going for. I think we can often care for ourselves while recognizing that others are helping us. For many of us, that alone can be a growth-promoting realization, especially if weve spent most of our lives helping others. Its actually nice to have someone else to thank. I can see how this might feel pressuring; and if you cant, you cant (general you, not personal). We need to respect that too. I believe we are all here on some level to heal and get better, by getting and giving help, in our own ways and in our own times.
The practical considerations you raise are inescapable. People have lives, jobs, families, projects, need time for themselves, need the freedom to enter into the room and leave at will. That is the nature and attraction of a bulletin board. I agree that being too formal e.g. a one reply, one name requirement - can quickly become a barrier to posting and counter-productive. There must be many other ways to have your eyes meet those who are listening and respond to you (if you feel you can and want to). Agree that naming individuals often is not practical, relevant, or necessary, especially for general discussions, fun threads etc. But when you feel in need yourself, its important to remember they are out there nonetheless and probably want to help you.
Ideally, people should be able to take care of themselves and "own" their own sensitivities. For many of us, thats a goal we work towards in therapy. By the same token, I think that sometimes that ability can be very hard, even out of reach, especially those times when people feel less strong or more vulnerable. Its nice to maybe keep a little eye out for others who might not be feeling so good and for whom a small reach out, e.g. personal comment, may be enough to pull them in. I believe it makes us stronger individuals when we are able do that. I think greeting newcomers so warmly, as Babblers do, is wonderful. I know I still remember mine with fondness and warm feelings.
Again, this is just MHO, neither an indictment nor a wish to hijack the board with a set of hard-and-fast rules. Thats not what Babble is about, nor would I want ever it to be. These are personal goals I try to work on, and certainly not always met with success. Im no better than anyone else, have no more time, ingenuity, brain cells, maturity, profundity or anything else. My goals dont have to be anyone elses either. This post is simply about starting a discussion, and thank you for replying to it.
Best,
Lucie
Posted by Dinah on September 10, 2008, at 10:17:59
In reply to an IMHO post, posted by lucie lu on September 9, 2008, at 22:54:47
It's always been perfectly acceptable to do either or neither. So for those of you who aren't posting because you don't feel you can properly reply, please post. We care about you. Do you really think we'd rather not hear from people we care about because we'll be upset at how you reply or don't reply? There aren't so many people in a person's life who care that you should cut yourself off from them in performance anxiety, no matter how reasonable performance anxiety might be. 10der, Pegasus, and everyone else who feels that way. I would far rather hear from you and hear how you're doing and what challenges you're facing, I'd far rather reply to the best of my ability and have no response at all to my reply, than have you not post.
Seriously.
Actually, I remember there being posts from people who dislike individual responses for various reasons. It really is ok to do a group response. Or no response if a person isn't up to posting a response.
For myself, I try to do individual responses in part because I want to respond to particular statements in the replies. But there are times when I post, respond to individually to a few replies, then leave and come back to a number of responses and not have the ability at that moment to respond to each so I respond to all. It certainly doesn't mean I don't appreciate the individual responses. It has to do with me, not anyone else.
I don't really feel one way or another about people replying to my response individually (or as part of a group). Sometimes I worry a bit about something I wrote and it's reassuring to see a reply. But mostly, it's ok either way.
I do try to make sure that if I respond to one person individually that I respond to everyone who posted at the same the same period of time individually. I might accidentally leave someone out, but I am generally mortified if I do. The only situation that really does strike me on occasion is when most people are responded to individually, and others aren't responded to at all - individually or as part of a group. If it happens once, I assume that it's an oversight. If it happens consistently, it's hard to see it as anything but a response of a sort, even if a silent one. In those cases, it might occur to me that my input is not overly helpful to that poster, and so I might be a bit hesitant to reply in the future. But that very rarely happens.
Alex used to say something that I really liked. I'm positive I won't paraphrase it correctly but... It's best to go into a situation like babble and give people the benefit of the doubt. People (and I've found this particularly true of the Psychology Board) want to be accepting and welcoming.
Posted by lucie lu on September 10, 2008, at 10:48:57
In reply to an IMHO post, posted by lucie lu on September 9, 2008, at 22:54:47
I'm sorry to have activated the sensitivities of some of you. There's nothing wrong with reading and not posting if that's what's right for you, whether some or all of the time. I do it too; often have to, due to time or other outside pressures.I also agree with Dinah, that I'd rather hear even a peep from people who would othewise not post than not to hear from them at all. The flexibility of Babble is one of its great advantages.
The concern I expressed is that while some may stay off the board because they feel pressured or unsafe, others may stay off because they feel they will be ignored or their voices will be unheard. I personally would like to hear from them too, and if a little encouragement would help them when they do drop in, that would be great. I hate to see anyone drop out for lack of a response. So this is the issue I am raising not changing what already works for most, but whether the board can be made more welcoming for everyone. If you feel you already address that with your own posting style, then thanks for sharing your philosophy, it may be helpful for all of us.
As Daisy aptly put it, people need comfort and support, but Babble can also be a place of nudging, of alternative ideas, of challenges and of hotly debated topics. This is what we are doing.
Best,
Lucie
Posted by raisinb on September 10, 2008, at 13:00:05
In reply to an IMHO post, posted by lucie lu on September 9, 2008, at 22:54:47
Hi Lucie--
Your point's well-taken. What follows is just MHO from personal experience.I think it's wonderful to acknowledge every poster by name, but I wouldn't want to be held to it, honestly. I do it as often as I can. There are times (few, admittedly, but some) when I've posted because I'm extremely distressed about something and Babble's my only outlet or option for support. In these times it's very tough for me to craft acknowledgments to everyone. I'm barely getting through the day! :) And sometimes a response triggers me, and it's better if I don't acknowledge it, vs. starting a mini-war in a thread (we have too many of those).
Because of what we're dealing with, Babble is such a sensitive place, and feelings are likely to be hurt no matter what regulations we have. I hope we can all work through them with the grace and sensitivity we usually show.
Posted by muffled on September 10, 2008, at 15:19:46
In reply to Re: an IMHO post » lucie lu, posted by raisinb on September 10, 2008, at 13:00:05
I have been known to do both way. Depends on the post, depends on my reaction to it, depends on how much time I have, or energy etc etc.
I f I respond individually, then I must respond to ALL, and thats a time problem. So I end up trying to be more genreal. A thing I do lately, is have idivid replies, but all in one post.
But it can SO quickly become overwhelming I agree.
I know when someone mentions my name I get a thrill of a nice feeling, but I also understand it can't always be done.
Over time I have accepted that my posts are sometimes good, sometimes bad, sometimes terrible, but I can only try to do what I am able to do at the time and I don't beat myself up about it, and I don't worry bout others cuz I know many feel sames me.
Its a tough problem, and not easily surmounted.
Maybe just by having threads like this from time to time, where posters can reassure others(and so themselves) that the way they post is just FINE! and being amental health board we do anticipate the the style etc may vary, ITS OK!
Iactually post elsewhere right now as it is more useful to me at this time. But I pop in here now and again to keep tabs on babblers.
I think the psycholgy board is doing well and there have been some great threads and support going on!
Good for you all!
Take care and the VERY betsest of wishes to you all.
Goto go.
Muffled
Posted by LadyBug on September 10, 2008, at 17:01:18
In reply to hoping for a 360-degree view..., posted by lucie lu on September 10, 2008, at 10:48:57
I'm learning that we all have different opinions and different ways of doing things. How I think other people should or shouldn't do things makes no difference.
I don't control other people in any way. Are people going to hurt my feelings at times for one reason or another? Sure. I don't have to like it.
I think we are all trying to do the best we can. I think people mean well here on Babble. I have appreciated the support for a long time now.
I try to respond when I feel I am up to it. Depression kicks my butt sometimes and I don't always have the energy to post. When I do start a post I try to acknowledge everyone even if I don't have much to say but thanks for the support.
LadyBug
Posted by JayMac on September 10, 2008, at 17:35:54
In reply to an IMHO post, posted by lucie lu on September 9, 2008, at 22:54:47
Is it time for a Babble group hug yet?
Posted by JayMac on September 10, 2008, at 17:42:16
In reply to Re: an IMHO post: Group hug?, posted by JayMac on September 10, 2008, at 17:35:54
> Is it time for a Babble group hug yet?
>Sorry, I don't mean to make light, or to make fun, of the situation. I just find that humor can alleviate tension.
That being said, I still think we need one big group hug.
Posted by lucie lu on September 10, 2008, at 19:26:04
In reply to Re: an IMHO post: Group hug?, posted by JayMac on September 10, 2008, at 17:42:16
> > Is it time for a Babble group hug yet?
> >
>
> Sorry, I don't mean to make light, or to make fun, of the situation. I just find that humor can alleviate tension.
>
> That being said, I still think we need one big group hug.Nice suggestion, Jay :)
Anyway why not make light of the situation? This is just a discussion. People have different ideas, views get aired. Everyone gets heard, learns new things, maybe thinks a little differently. That is healthy, at least it should be.
Having said that, now I am moving on from this thread.
-Lucie
Posted by Daisym on September 10, 2008, at 22:02:33
In reply to Re: an IMHO post » lucie lu, posted by pegasus on September 10, 2008, at 9:43:47
Didn't you just have her?
And clients....:) I'm so happy for you.
Nice to see you.
Posted by Daisym on September 10, 2008, at 22:08:41
In reply to Re: I disagree - respectfully » Daisym, posted by 10derHeart on September 10, 2008, at 0:46:15
I hope you heard loud and clear from so many others here - you can post and run. It really is OK.
I find I'm doing a lot of that these days - or I'm here late at night. So you aren't alone.
And I agree with what Lucie said - no one keeps score.
Posted by Daisym on September 10, 2008, at 22:09:32
In reply to Re: an IMHO post: Group hug?, posted by JayMac on September 10, 2008, at 17:35:54
No hugs for me please! But I think ice cream all around would be good. :)
Posted by pegasus on September 12, 2008, at 9:04:25
In reply to I can't believe she's three!! » pegasus, posted by Daisym on September 10, 2008, at 22:02:33
Oh, Daisy, that made me smile that you remember me, and my daughter, and my career change. I always think that no one will notice or remember me (yes, it's part of the issues that bring me here).
Everyone, it's great to hear that it's OK to post and run. I truly was trying to be sensitive by not posting. Maybe I'll be brave enough to add a word here and there going forward. But, truly, I may not even read any responses for days after that, and may never have time to reply at all, much less gracefully. I know that can trigger stuff for some people. So I think I'll include a quick warning about my situation when I do post.
And . . . I also do love it when I get a personal response, or am mentioned by name, when I respond to someone. So I know the optimal thing to do, when it's possible.
Good discussion. Thanks Lucie for bringing it up.
peg
Posted by JayMac on September 12, 2008, at 12:33:36
In reply to Re: an IMHO post: Group hug? » JayMac, posted by Daisym on September 10, 2008, at 22:09:32
> No hugs for me please! But I think ice cream all around would be good. :)
Ice cream would be great! =)
Posted by lucie lu on September 12, 2008, at 12:36:52
In reply to Re: an IMHO post: Group hug?, posted by JayMac on September 12, 2008, at 12:33:36
> > No hugs for me please! But I think ice cream all around would be good. :)
>
> Ice cream would be great! =)Can I please have a hot fudge sundae with chocolate ice cream, and whipped cream on top? There is little in life that cannot be improved by chocolate. ;)
Posted by JayMac on September 12, 2008, at 17:38:53
In reply to Re: an IMHO post: Group hug? » JayMac, posted by lucie lu on September 12, 2008, at 12:36:52
> > > No hugs for me please! But I think ice cream all around would be good. :)
> >
> > Ice cream would be great! =)
>
> Can I please have a hot fudge sundae with chocolate ice cream, and whipped cream on top? There is little in life that cannot be improved by chocolate. ;)
>
Mmmmmmm......do you prefer dark or milk chocolate? I like it as dark as it can get! :P
Posted by lucie lu on September 12, 2008, at 18:34:56
In reply to Re: an IMHO post: Group hug?, posted by JayMac on September 12, 2008, at 17:38:53
This is the end of the thread.
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