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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 35. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by TherapyGirl on October 31, 2007, at 17:58:22
I saw T today for an extra session. I see her again tomorrow night.
It seems pointless, though, you know? I feel like I have a terminal illness. I was in remission for a while, but now it's back. I just don't know if I want to go through the "chemo" again. At what point do I get to say, "Enough is enough?" Because if I had cancer I would have that choice. It doesn't seem fair that I don't have it for this.
We did talk about our non-hospitilization plan again. I called last night and left her a message reminding her of it (it's been a couple of years since we needed it) and telling her I needed to talk to her about that first today so I would know whether or not to be honest about what I'm feeling. She did the standard thing -- I know you don't want to go to the hospital and I'll keep you out as long as I can, BUT. I just told her the hospital had to be off the table -- they don't help me and the meds make it worse. I told her that I would go to one of my friend's houses (she has a list) if she was worried but that I would not go back to the hospital. She reluctantly agreed.
In some ways I think it is most difficult to have therapy under these conditions. It makes it an almost adversarial relationship. I want to die and her job is to not let me.
So where does that leave us?
Posted by Dinah on October 31, 2007, at 18:49:36
In reply to Two sessions this week **Triggers**, posted by TherapyGirl on October 31, 2007, at 17:58:22
I'm sorry you're feeling so bad. And I understand what you mean about your therapist. At least she's willing to work with you on alternatives to hospitalization. I sometimes feel with my therapist that his suggestions have more to do with his best interests than mine. I'm sure it's less worrying for him to have me in the hospital.
But it's not necessarily adversarial. Both of you want you to feel better. You might have different ideas of how to get there, but you have the same goal.
I know what she's proposing as an answer probably seems pitifully little in comparison to how you feel. And I certainly understand that you may feel too tired and discouraged to try again. But depression tends to put those thoughts in our heads, and make them seem so logical and sensible. I know you don't feel like fighting the depression yet again, but part of that is the depression. If that makes sense.
Posted by TherapyGirl on October 31, 2007, at 20:11:23
In reply to Re: Two sessions this week **Triggers** » TherapyGirl, posted by Dinah on October 31, 2007, at 18:49:36
Thanks, Dinah.
You describe it perfectly. And part of my brain can read it and know it's true. Then there's the other part. It's a little bit like being in the early stages of Alzheimer's. Every now and then I peak through.
But I really can't do this for much longer. Every single time takes a bigger toll. My PCP agreed with me that antidepressants (even the newer ones) are probably dangerous for me. Her theory (and God knows, she's the first doctor who has actually shared a theory with me about my bad reactions to antidepressants) is that I am more sensitive than most people to serotonin. So that even a little bit over the right amount has a negative effect on my brain. It's like I'm ODing on serotonin.
So that makes it all seem that much harder. I am still forcing myself to exercise and go to work, but at some point that stuff will stop, too.
God I hate this. I hate my life. And sometimes I hate my T for not just letting me go.
Posted by Maria01 on October 31, 2007, at 20:29:48
In reply to Two sessions this week **Triggers**, posted by TherapyGirl on October 31, 2007, at 17:58:22
I could have written this myself. You put into words exactly what I am feeling, and have been feeling for quite awhile...when will enough be enough. Like you, I can't tolerate any meds, so they are out of the question. Getting thru this is calling on strength I don't think I have at the moment...
I wish I had some words of wisdom for you, but I don't because I'm in the same place right now...
Posted by TherapyGirl on October 31, 2007, at 20:39:06
In reply to Re: Two sessions this week **Triggers** » TherapyGirl, posted by Maria01 on October 31, 2007, at 20:29:48
Yeah, I recognized myself in your post above. I tried to respond and couldn't. I was afraid I'd make it worse.
I wish I knew the answer, Maria. I hate like hell that you recognize this place so well.
Posted by Maria01 on October 31, 2007, at 20:46:10
In reply to Re: Two sessions this week **Triggers** » Maria01, posted by TherapyGirl on October 31, 2007, at 20:39:06
What's making it worse for me is that I think my T is kinda running out of patience/steam. She's a self-admitted eternal optimist, and they tend to shrink away from depression.
She wants me to call her, but I think it's pointless because nothing will be accomplished in the space of a 15-minute phone call...trying hard to stay active and to hold on, but I'm exhausted, Y'know?
Posted by Dinah on October 31, 2007, at 21:07:12
In reply to Re: Two sessions this week **Triggers** » Dinah, posted by TherapyGirl on October 31, 2007, at 20:11:23
How about other medications? I don't care overly much for antidepressants myself, but I find Risperdal also helps with the negative thoughts and I tolerate it much better. And sometimes anti anxiety meds help with my depression, because anxiety is a largish part of depression with me.
Posted by TherapyGirl on October 31, 2007, at 21:18:37
In reply to Re: Two sessions this week **Triggers** » TherapyGirl, posted by Maria01 on October 31, 2007, at 20:46:10
I do know. But if she's invited you to call, I think you should take her up on it. When it's really, really bad, the sound of my T's voice will get me through -- sometimes only for another 5 minutes, but it is usually a critical 5 minutes.
I do think it's very difficult for Ts in general to deal with depression. It's hard to be honest with them when they are bound by law to stop you from doing yourself any harm. I'm still working out the boundaries of that with my T. I'm not sure if we can come up with something that will work or not. There's a fine line there somewhere -- I need to be able to talk about these feelings with her, but if I do it too much it defeats the purpose. It becomes an obsession instead of a release.
I'm really, really sorry you're in this place with me.
Posted by TherapyGirl on October 31, 2007, at 21:24:03
In reply to Re: Two sessions this week **Triggers** » TherapyGirl, posted by Dinah on October 31, 2007, at 21:07:12
Yeah, anxiety has been a big feature of my most intolerable depressions. My PCP gave me a RX for Xanax on Monday. I've been taking half a pill a night. She wants me to take it every day for a week and then as needed. I honestly can't tell if it's helping or not. My anxiety, due to the situation with my ex, is worse on the weekends when I have contact with ex and ex's son. So I guess we'll see. We're also trying to be very careful to monitor what it does to my brain chemistry. But it's short acting, so I feel a little more comfortable with it.
I did take Risperdal for a while during my bad year. I was on so much other stuff at the time that I couldn't tell you if it helped or not. I think it probably also matters if you take it as needed (like it sounds like you do) or every day (like they prescribed it for me back then).
My PCP clearly would have preferred to put me on one of the antidepressants that is good for anxiety, too, but after I explained the situation to her, we ruled it out.
I'm still trying for now. We'll see if T can come up with a plan for next weekend that doesn't involve me leaving voice mails for her every hour, which is how I got through last weekend.
Posted by Maria01 on October 31, 2007, at 21:38:10
In reply to Re: Two sessions this week **Triggers** » Maria01, posted by TherapyGirl on October 31, 2007, at 21:18:37
One of my fears is that if I'm too candid about how I'm feeling, is that I will be involuntarily hospitalized..I have no friends close by where I can hang out if things get too dark. My T had mentioned involuntary hospitalization before, and I told her under no uncertain terms that would be it for me in terms of she and I working together, both because I don't have health coverage and would be left holding the bag for thousands of dollars; and because after watching several friends go thru the hell of hospitalization, it's not the way to go.
I find myself really pulling away from her this week, which is the first time I've done so since working with her. Instead, I've been hanging onto my kitties and just letting things crash around me...
Posted by Dinah on October 31, 2007, at 21:48:05
In reply to Re: Two sessions this week **Triggers** » Dinah, posted by TherapyGirl on October 31, 2007, at 21:24:03
I do take it as needed. But when I'm feeling really bad, as needed is usually daily. The funny thing is that when I've taken it for a while (a week or two) and then I stop, I feel really tearful and sad. So maybe it has an antidepressant effect as well?
I think that some people just have an affinity for one sort of medication. I took one of the old antipsychotics in my worst year as an adolescent, and it may be why I'm still here. It just seems to suit me and my form of anxiety or occasional agitated depression. It's too bad that it's not great for my diabetes. :(
I also found klonopin helpful. But Wellbutrin and Effexor and nortriptyline were *awful* for me. And while I was on Luvox for four years and it did help with agitation I guess, I'm not overly fond of SSRI's either. Part of the reason is likely that few of my mood dips last long enough to justify the withdrawal.
Maybe you just need to try different types of medications? They're not all serotonin based.
Posted by muffled on October 31, 2007, at 23:22:56
In reply to Re: Two sessions this week **Triggers** » Dinah, posted by TherapyGirl on October 31, 2007, at 21:24:03
TG.
I been there, but I not now.
I think you can't remember less you been there recently, cuz its so awful you forget.
Just goto wonder that maybe you can get past this, and be OK again? Somehow. A day at a time. An hour at a time.
You not so old.
So much potential.
Once you dead all that is gone.
My friend is gone.
They put you in a box.
And your face won't smile again, laugh.
You won't post to me.
I be so sad if that happens.
I don't cry, but there's water rising in my eyes some.
I hope you don't go away.
You my friend.
I hope you can be OK.
Find your way outta the pit like I did.
Its Ok now for me.
I'm glad I am here and didn't go thru w/it successfully.
I hope you can stay.
(((((((((((((((TG))))))))))))))))))
My heart hurts for you.
M
Posted by Daisym on October 31, 2007, at 23:54:27
In reply to Re: Two sessions this week **Triggers** » Dinah, posted by TherapyGirl on October 31, 2007, at 20:11:23
I've told my therapist before that I was mad at him for holding me to my promise. He said that just shows how much I'm hurting but that I still care enough to keep fighting back. I really don't think I want him to let go of me but sometimes the pain is really too much to bear.
So a month ago we did a future planning session. What would I miss if I took my own life? He had more ideas than I did. But one of the things he said was that I would miss (and he would miss) the opportunity to see who I was meant to be. Who ever I'm evolving into - she would never get to show her stuff...and that would be sad after all this work.
So perhaps try that. What would you miss? What dreams would die with you? Who would miss you?
It is so very hard when you are at the bottom of the well and there is no rope and no way out. But let your therapist help you - catch the rope when she throws it.
I'm glad you are posting.
Posted by TherapyGirl on November 1, 2007, at 6:45:47
In reply to Re: Two sessions this week **Triggers**, posted by muffled on October 31, 2007, at 23:22:56
Thanks, Muffly. I can't post much right now, but I'll try to write more later.
You are a treasure, though.
Posted by TherapyGirl on November 1, 2007, at 18:34:24
In reply to Re: Two sessions this week **Triggers** » TherapyGirl, posted by Dinah on October 31, 2007, at 21:48:05
Maybe I do need to try different meds. But they tried so many in so many different combinations during the bad year that it scares me to death.
But you've given me something to think about. I appreciate it. And I'm feeling slightly better this afternoon.
Posted by TherapyGirl on November 1, 2007, at 18:38:42
In reply to Re: Two sessions this week **Triggers**, posted by Daisym on October 31, 2007, at 23:54:27
Thanks, Daisy. I read your post this morning, but was crying too hard to respond. As I've said before, I really like the way your T thinks and I think you've both done an amazing job of creating a health supportive connection for you.
I'm going to tell my T about this "exercise" (for want of a better word) you did with your T and see if she will help me with it. I'll have to really think about it.
You're right about how hard it is to catch the rope, but I am trying. And the depression/anxiety abated ever so slightly this afternoon. But at least now I feel like I can fake it, which I haven't been pulling off at work. So that's progress, I guess.
I'll post more below to everyone, but I really do appreciate your support and your thoughtful suggestions. Thanks.
Posted by TherapyGirl on November 1, 2007, at 18:48:00
In reply to Two sessions this week **Triggers**, posted by TherapyGirl on October 31, 2007, at 17:58:22
Thanks again to all you Babblers for being so supportive. You get it so much better than pretty much anyone else in my life -- it's hard to imagine how I'd get through this without all of you.
I am doing a little better as of this afternoon. The depression/anxiety has lifted enough that I can fake it at work, which is good. I'm afraid I've worried pretty much everyone. And I've been trying to fake it, but I just couldn't pull it off. So I've told everyone who's asked that I don't feel well and haven't been sleeping well (what an understatement that is).
Tonight, I made T talk about our hospital plan again. It occurred to me last night that she didn't so much AGREE to the plan as she said, "I understand." (This was in response to me saying the hospital didn't help me -- just made things worse.) So I explained to her tonight that I really had to know that she wouldn't do that to me. That she would trust the plan we've made and trust me to hang in there as long as I can, but that she also had to know that it's MY choice whether or not to continue to treat this depression. I pointed out that no one could force me into treatment for any physical illness and that I don't think anyone should be able to force me into treatment for this. I reminded her how little of my life I've actually been in control of and told her that I *have* to be in control of how long I live like this. It is the bluntest I've ever been with her, I think, about this subject. What she said was that she legally couldn't promise me that she wouldn't force me into treatment, but that I needed to trust the relationship we have and her history with me (she is not the one who forced me in before) and know that she agrees with me. So I guess that will have to do.
I'll keep all of you posted about how I'm doing. The weekend is coming -- T has a plan for checking in with me. But I dread going back down to the well.
And it turns out the threatened loss of my little guy (from ex's new relationship) is triggering LOTS of emotions about the hysterectomy that I didn't see coming. So I still have lots of work to do. I'll do it as long as I have the energy.
Thanks again to all of you for the great support.
Posted by Maria01 on November 1, 2007, at 19:51:46
In reply to Re: Two sessions this week **Triggers** Update, posted by TherapyGirl on November 1, 2007, at 18:48:00
glad to hear that you are doing better =)
I am right there with you with respect to how long you want to keep treating the depression. We should have the right to determine how far and how long we should go, be it for a physical illness(cancer, AIDS, etc) or for other illnesses like depression. Our T's mean well, but they don't live our lives, we do.Your post reminds me that I need to have the hospitalization talk with my T...soon. As mentioned before, your post articulated everything that I have been feeling, and also my feelings toward deciding when enough is enough.
I am glad that it has lifted a bit, and I wish you a peaceful weekend.
Posted by rskontos on November 1, 2007, at 20:41:24
In reply to Re: Two sessions this week **Triggers** » Daisym, posted by TherapyGirl on November 1, 2007, at 18:38:42
TG, I too am really having a hard time and I did go on a AD even though my last one was hell getting off and I swore I wouldn't do it again but I got in exactly the place you are now. I must admit it is helping with the anxiety. Not totally because a trigger can set off a panic attack but I can control them to an extent. The depression or despair at the bottom of the pit is not so bad, it is better or manageable. I think I could get it better if I increase the dosage where the neuro said I could go but for now I am leaving it alone. I have some relief not all I could probably get but little side effects. No weight gain, in fact I am left with no appetite. So for now I am better than I was. My T is supportive of this AD but only in the short term. I will eventually taper off. That is another reason to stay low. I must admit although I didn't want anything it has helped. Just an FYI for you to consider as a different point of view. I am journeying to the deepest recessions of my mind for all that happened to me as a child and I know it was ugly I just don't have the memories. I have dissociated for so long I have no memories of most of my past and my T says I have been depression all my life. And anxiety ridden and not medicated for it. So really I do understand where you are. I have thought more about suicide than ever . So far now that this AD is working. Which is good. Anyway, I hope you find your way. I wish I had more advice I can offer much support. This is tough but you are strong. I feel that all of us are stronger than we actually realize. Take care, rk
Posted by Daisym on November 1, 2007, at 22:07:00
In reply to Re: Two sessions this week **Triggers** » Daisym, posted by TherapyGirl on November 1, 2007, at 18:38:42
I'm glad I could help, at least a little. Sometimes I feel so hypocritical about this topic though. What I *know* is that feelings shift and change and we never know what surprises are waiting down the road. What I fear is that all the surprises left for me are bad. :(
I went through a phase where I read everything I could about suicide. There is one book in particular that was helpful - let me know if you are a reader. It, obviously, isn't a "planning" book, but more a research study on why people do this and the despair they feel. It helped me in some dark moments I think because this was the subject that was on my mind. And if I wasn't going to actively pursue it, I wanted to passively explore it. Or maybe I was just obsessed...I'm not sure.
As far as the hospital - I've never been in for this. I've been close. I think your therapist is being honest about her legal obligations but I think you do have to trust that you might not be able to make really good decisions for yourself at times. She won't do this lightly or without a lot of thought. I'm glad you are being so honest with her.
If if you aren't at the top of your game at work right now, so what? Everyone has bad weeks, feels ill or has problems. It is just your turn. Try not to be so hard on yourself.
On Tuesday, my therapist and I spent half the session talking about what I believe happens when we die - is there an afterlife and all that. We talked about ghosts and spirits and universal consciousness. It was a weird conversation, philosophical and theoretical. Maybe he is afraid I'm going to haunt him?
I'm glad you have a plan for the weekend. Don't forget to check in here too.
Posted by I need a hug on November 2, 2007, at 1:53:37
In reply to Re: Two sessions this week **Triggers** » TherapyGirl, posted by Daisym on November 1, 2007, at 22:07:00
TG,
Just wanted you to know I'm thinking of you. I see my T on Friday so I've been try to get my thoughts in order before I go. That's not an easy task! I usually try to write things down because if I don't, I end up forgetting things I really wanted to talk about.
How is the xanax working for you? I've been taking ativan for a long time. I works really well for me. My T lets me adjust my dose when I feel I need to. She knows me well enough to know that I won't abuse it. If I need it, I take it. If I don't, I don't. It helps with PMS. It's pretty similar to xanax so I just wanted to mention it to you as an alternative. I've had a lot of problems with meds. A new med is what led to my first migraine 2 years ago, sending me to the ER and getting shot up with morphine and demerol. I went off of the med but I had to make another trip to the ER for the same thing. This was before I started seeing a neurologist. She's a fantastic doctor and soon had the headaches under control. I don't know what brought this one on but I'm glad it's over. Well, enough about me. I think it sounds like you've got a good PCP who is willing to work with you and your T. Some doctors try to do more than they are qualified to do. After my mom died is when my depression started(actually, it started years before that but I never did anything about it.) My PCP prescribed 2ADs she felt comfortable with. When they didn't work or I had side effects, she suggested therapy. That was the beginning of a beautiful 9 year relationship with my T. When the migraines started, she immediately ordered an MRI and referred me to a neurologist. I have a great deal of respect for her because of this. I hope you have a relaxing weekend and I will continue to follow your posts. Please let me know if I can do anything for you. HUGS
Posted by TherapyGirl on November 2, 2007, at 18:56:39
In reply to Re: Two sessions this week **Triggers** Update » TherapyGirl, posted by Maria01 on November 1, 2007, at 19:51:46
Thanks, Maria. I'm tired today, but not in the bottom of the pit.
I encourage you to have the hospital talk with your T, but you'll need to take her a viable plan. For me that is a list of about 4 or 5 friends who have agreed to let me come stay with them in lieu of the hospital. Some of them had to think about it and what responsibility they are taking on. But mostly for me it's just that I need to not be by myself and a change of scenery doesn't hurt either. So they have agreed. Do you have friends you can make that agreement with?
Thanks again for all your support. I hope things get better for you soon.
Posted by TherapyGirl on November 2, 2007, at 18:58:50
In reply to Re: Two sessions this week **Triggers**, posted by rskontos on November 1, 2007, at 20:41:24
I'm glad they AD is helping you, RS, even if it's just a little bit.
I think ADs are generally wonderful drugs and I know they help a lot of people. Maybe one day I'll try some small dose of a newer one for a short time and see what it does to me. Part of the problem in the past is that they just kept piling on and switching without letting me come off in between. So maybe there is one that would help. I'm not willing to try it yet, but I will if it gets that bad.
I hope you continue to get better. Thanks for your support.
Posted by TherapyGirl on November 2, 2007, at 19:06:08
In reply to Re: Two sessions this week **Triggers** » TherapyGirl, posted by Daisym on November 1, 2007, at 22:07:00
Thanks, Daisy.
And I'm right there with you about my fear about what surprises are left. Even on my good days.
I'm a big reader, so if you would send me the name of that book, I'd appreciate it. It would give my thoughts an outlet that is better than the outlet I naturally come up with when it's like this.
I am still depressed, but functional now. So at least I can deal with it. I'm a little anxious about how the weekend will play out (it's little man's birthday), but I feel as comfortable as I can with the plans I have in place for dealing with it.
I should probably have the afterlife discussion with my T. We did venture into spiritual territory last night -- which I usually veer away from. But I was telling her that one of my friends suggested to me last weekend that I pray for myself -- that God will be there for me when no one else is, blah, blah, blah. In theory, I get that and I want to be comforted by that. But there was a 5-year-old in my head screaming, "If God wouldn't protect ME, why would he protect HER? Where the h*ll was he when my mother was beating the sh*t out of me?" Okay, maybe it was my teenager and not my 5-year-old, but you get the drift. My T chose not to respond to that, but instead asked me to think about asking my friend to pray WITH me the next time. She thinks that would open up avenues of support from my friend that she has had trouble expressing in the past. I don't know if I can do it or not, but I'm thinking about it. I'd love it if you would post about your conversation with T about the afterlife.
Thanks for everything, Daisy. I will check in as I can over the weekend.
Posted by TherapyGirl on November 2, 2007, at 19:09:06
In reply to Re: Two sessions this week **Triggers**, posted by I need a hug on November 2, 2007, at 1:53:37
Thanks, Hug.
The xanax seems to be working okay, but the real test will be this weekend. I will be upping the dose for Sat. and Sun. nights. I guess we'll see what shape I'm in on Monday.
I hope your session went well today. I used to see my T on Fridays and I really liked it. But now she only works some Fridays and usually only half a day at that. It sucks to have a semi-retired T.
Your PCP sounds great, too. My current one seems good -- she discusses things with me and believes what I tell her about my body's reaction to drugs. That's the most important part of being a good doctor in my book.
Thanks for all the support this week. I'll keep you posted and you do the same. Okay?
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