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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by DAisym on October 30, 2007, at 19:04:30
The past few weeks have been intensely hard. There are many, many pressures impacting my life. And internally, my feelings feel like a shape shifter - one day I feel young, the next very old. I'm figuring out that I'm lonely, and perhaps ready for a relationship and yet that is terrifying. My therapy group has disbanded, which was a hard thing to say good-bye to.
I need my therapist and yet there are ruptures, mostly created by me, to our connection. We get things back together pretty quickly because I can't tolerate the distance so I am much more honest about what is upsetting and why. This is good, right?
Today I told him that there has been this voice in my head that whispers angry retorts to his questions. For example: My therapist asked, "did you get stomach aches a lot as a child?" I said, "yes, but I never said anything." The angry thought was, "of course I did! You'd get them too if you'd been forced to do x,y, or z." I stopped talking and looked at him and just told him it happened again. He wanted to hear it, so I told him. He asked me if these thoughts were popping in because he was asking stupid questions or for some other reason? I chuckled but honestly, this isn't about the quality of the questions. It feels defensive and just plain angry.
He wants me to experiment with letting the thoughts out. "just say it" sounds easy -- but it isn't! I'm afraid he will get defensive or hurt - and I just don't want to lose him over and over again. It is scary and painful. He says he will protect the connection, I don't have to worry about this. But how can I not?
I just can't figure out what the need to bite back is. Any ideas?
Posted by antigua3 on October 30, 2007, at 19:29:39
In reply to Blurting, posted by DAisym on October 30, 2007, at 19:04:30
I do this all the time with my pdoc. (My T doesn't elicit these feelings) I want to scream and call him a moron when he asks what I consider a stupid question. Sometimes I turn it into something sarcastic, but I'm pretty good at just letting it go. so give it a try. there has to be something there. I tend to feel like it occurs in part because I have often felt underestimated in my life, but then the thought just occurred to me that maybe what I mean is that I don't feel heard, and if he listened properly, he would hear what I have to say!! Same thing--he can't help if I don't tell him.
So you're not alone. But you also worry so much about hurting your T (which I do with my T, BTW) that maybe you feel like it's misbehaving). Explore it; he's not going anywhere.
antigua
Posted by JoniS on October 30, 2007, at 21:47:19
In reply to Blurting, posted by DAisym on October 30, 2007, at 19:04:30
Daisy,
Sorry to hear about the tough times you're in. Sounds like a lot is going on. I was once close to a therapy group and it was sad to say goodbye.
And this is too familiar:
"...one day I feel young, the next very old. I'm figuring out that I'm lonely, and perhaps ready for a relationship and yet that is terrifying..."
Those thouhgts are exactly what run through my mind as I still consider ending my marriage. Life is hard.I sometimes want to blurt out stuff to my T as well. Sometimes I've done it, only to call him the next day and apologize. He always says "it's ok, you didn't hurt my feelings"
I'm not sure why I do it. I think it has something to do with our relationship. Like, maybe, because I want more. I want him to feel something for me, even just the tiniest bit like I feel for him. I know this doesn't make sense but I really think my anger and desire to blurt is my heart saying "don't you know I love you and I want you to love me!!!???" Of course my T is very professional and keeps proper boundaries, so if I said those words out loud, we'd just talk about it. (and then I'd love him and want him more!) Life is hard.
This may not be helpful at all, just thought I'd let you know I do it and maybe yours is similar. Even though it's hard, I'd try letting it out. Your T will handle it fine. Mine has handled it fine and yours seems like he's every bit as good as mine.
I hope you get some sort of resolution.
Take good care of yourself. I'm thinking of you.
Joni
Posted by Dory on October 30, 2007, at 22:41:29
In reply to Blurting, posted by DAisym on October 30, 2007, at 19:04:30
i have a very strong feeling about this.. but no matter how i try i can't word it in a way that gets across what i mean. It's very frustrating.. i just had a strong reaction to your question and i need to try and figure out how to say it.. i need to think on this.
Posted by RealMe on October 30, 2007, at 23:31:36
In reply to Blurting, posted by DAisym on October 30, 2007, at 19:04:30
Daisy
My T encourages me to say when I am angry with him. Sometimes I wasn't aware until after I left and then would tell him later only to feel like he might want to dump me like my previous therapist when I got mad at him. So, now I can feel when I am getting angry with him for some comment he makes, for example. So, then we look at the links, and sometimes I get angry because he is hitting on something really touchy. Sometimes I am starting to feel too close to him, and I have a need to push him away, and then I can see it happening, and I can say I am starting to feel angry with you and I'm not really angry; I am feeling things about you, good feelings and it is scary." So, I can recognize when I am trying to push him away most of the time now and can talk about why it is I would want to push him away.
Today I was talking about how my husband and I got into it at my niece's wedding after he just left the ballroom and never came back for an hour and a half, and I found him talking to one of his brother's in the hall. ONe of his sisters got mad at the brother because he had abandoned his wife upstairs in the hotel when she got sick. So, that was Saturday night. My husband has been in the guest bedroom ever since and will not come out when I am at home. So, I was talking about it in therapy today, and my T says, "just like your mother." I got really pissed at him but didn't say anything as it was a link I did not care to have made. My mother would give me the silent treatment for days on end when she was upset with me. Now here is my husband doing the same thing. Don't want to hear about it, and certainly did not want to hear his comment, "It's such a tragic mismatch." I am not sure what he meant--that my husband and I are a tragic mismatch???? I don't think he would say that since he has never met my husband. But I got upset with the whole thing, and I don't know why.
Came home from my women's group tonight, though, and there was my husband watching the debate. So, maybe he has had enough isolation. I won't apologize as I did nothing wrong by getting angry with him.
Anyway, I do the same thing with my T, and I have learned that he won't get angry with me for saying that I am angry. It gives us a chance to look at what is behind the anger.
RealMe
Posted by muffled on October 30, 2007, at 23:33:09
In reply to Blurting, posted by DAisym on October 30, 2007, at 19:04:30
From my email to T the other day:
"And another thing, is why we didn't say much(at T), and was blanking, is that ALOT was said in(previous) e-mail, or SOMEone did, and so now we waiting , watching, to see what you do......how you react......
Testing, trying to trust, apparently it never ends..."I been bolder and bolder bout saying stuff to my T bout things she does that parts of me don't like. And she apologises (which irrationally makes me feel bad cuz I made her feel bad...). Like the other day she said a triggering word to me. Today she was talking and waving her hands too close. I tell her in emails. I tell her stuff and she is Ok w/it. Proly your T will be too.
I think its a self preservation thing to keep testing our T's. And if it helps us to be safer, then maybe its OK then. Maybe you can give that part prmission to test as needed so that it can feel safe?
Hope this is OK.
M
Posted by Daisym on October 31, 2007, at 0:14:50
In reply to Re: Blurting, posted by muffled on October 30, 2007, at 23:33:09
The main thing is -- I don't FEEL angry at my therapist, I just feel angry. It is sort of like dealing with a sullen teenager - it has nothing to do with the person, it is about the world in general. So, because I know I'm not mad at him, I keep quiet. The lashing out is at some unknown force.
But perhaps there is truth in what each of you wrote. I am afraid of hurting his feelings. My feelings for him are intense and there are times when I feel frustrated that we talk about me doing all these things but I can't do them with him. Or he can't do them with me. But I've told him that.
Maybe this is testing him. Can I say this? Or this? Or this? Maybe I want him to know just how mad I am at all of this.
But the main thing that keeps coming up is outrage over the things that were done to me. I get so upset I practically shake over it. I think the wrong person is sitting in front of me - I want to scream at my abuser, pound on something and MAKE him remember what he did to me.
*sigh* It makes me want to withdraw again.
Posted by RealMe on October 31, 2007, at 1:32:04
In reply to Re: Blurting -- trigger, posted by Daisym on October 31, 2007, at 0:14:50
I don't know why, but I don't feel the anger so much about what happened to me anymore. I used to, and now it is just a horrible deep pain and sorrow. My T says he can feel it which then makes me want to cry, and sometimes I do. I just hate that as I don't cry in front of people. He is the only one I can think of that I have cryed in front of since I don't remember when.
I feel like I should apologize to him for that as I realy hate it. Who wants to be around some pained, sobbing person with the deep sorrow. I feel like I want to cry again just thinking of it. Got to go.RealMe
Posted by B2chica on October 31, 2007, at 8:10:40
In reply to Re: Blurting -- trigger » Daisym, posted by RealMe on October 31, 2007, at 1:32:04
> I don't know why, but I don't feel the anger so much about what happened to me anymore. I used to, and now it is just a horrible deep pain and sorrow. My T says he can feel it which then makes me want to cry, and sometimes I do. I just hate that as I don't cry in front of people. He is the only one I can think of that I have cryed in front of since I don't remember when.
> I feel like I should apologize to him for that as I realy hate it. Who wants to be around some pained, sobbing person with the deep sorrow. I feel like I want to cry again just thinking of it. Got to go.
>
> RealMe
i thought i was reading my post.
this T is the First one i've ever cried infront of...but now i do it all the time. i hate it. i feel guilty for it.
i can't believe i cry so much in her office. but i also think it's because i don't cry anywhere else.but i did read some controdiction in your post and i would like to point it out if you don't mind...(my T did that to me yesterday too, but...)
>> I feel like I should apologize to him for that as I realy hate it. Who wants to be around some pained, sobbing person with the deep sorrow.
well Dear RM, HE does. he choose a profession of emotionally injured people. people who hurt deep...deep...inside. i'm sure it's ok with him...but maybe, if you can. talk to him about it. tell him it makes you uncomfortable and maybe why.
Posted by sunnydays on October 31, 2007, at 8:44:31
In reply to Re: Blurting -- trigger, posted by Daisym on October 31, 2007, at 0:14:50
Daisy,
I get what you're saying I think. Sometimes I just get so angry, and I just get so tired of all the standard "Hang in there," therapy responses and things like that. I have been on the edge of saying really sarcastic mean things to my therapist at those times. And I think you hit the nail on the head when you said you're angry about what happened to you. It's just your way of trying to figure out how to possibly express that anger, I would guess. Can you talk about that feeling of anger about what happened and how to express it with your T and see if that feels right?
Anyway, I don't have much time, sorry, but I wanted to say that I hear you, and I think I relate.
sunnydays
Posted by Dory on October 31, 2007, at 8:55:11
In reply to Re: Blurting -- trigger, posted by Daisym on October 31, 2007, at 0:14:50
ok.. not sure how much sense this will make... like i said, it's hard to articulate because it's feeling-based not thought-based... and i am doing some of the same thing so it's closer to home.
could it be age-confusion? this anger that feels like a sullen teen who is angry at the world.. is it confusing because you are an adult and not a teen? "i shouldn't feel this because i am old enough to know better?"
maybe the phrases in your head get directed at him because he is there... but who was the original anger directed at? who started the world-sucks ball rolling? Who was the idiot who didn't know you needed help?
i could be stupid.. but it's what i'm looking at so i just thought i'd throw it out there... i find myself thinking "wtf was **wrong** with you people?" and it could easily get turned on T.
Posted by raisinb on October 31, 2007, at 12:17:03
In reply to Re: Blurting -- trigger » Daisym, posted by RealMe on October 31, 2007, at 1:32:04
Hi Daisy,
I'm don't know if this applies to how you're feeling or not, but I've felt like that often, and I DO say nasty things to my T (I've said "f*ck you" and "shut up," even, and criticized her more times than I can count).
It's usually because I expect so much from the relationship--I expect her to say something brilliant or perfectly understanding--and she says something completely obvious, and I hate how inadequate she is. Also, if she *has* to ask obvious questions in the first place, then it means that she doesn't know how I feel inside, and that's lonely and distancing. I think to myself, shouldn't I be *helped* here, made to feel safe and happy, rather than working so hard to reach some distant, puzzled, inadequate authority? How do I bridge that gulf, and why is it my job?
But then, that's me, of course :)
Posted by Annierose on October 31, 2007, at 15:18:24
In reply to Re: Blurting -- trigger, posted by Daisym on October 31, 2007, at 0:14:50
>>But the main thing that keeps coming up is outrage over the things that were done to me.
And that's exactly where you need to be right now in this journey. It's scary to feel all this anger and, I think, a need express the rage that has been swelling inside. Your therapist is reminding you that he can help be a container for it.
Of course you worry that you will scare him away. I have felt that with my own t. But your relationship has been built on a solid foundation. He knows how loving and caring you are. He knows the sarcastic commentary is not about him. It's directed at x,y.z.
I'm glad you are thinking about those lonely feelings and wondering if it's okay to start testing the waters. And coffee and conversation can be just that .... try not to think ahead to more intimate situations. Baby steps. Opening yourself up to the possibility of dating is just one of many first steps.
"The lashing out is at some unknown force." --- Your psyche is a powerful force to be reckoned with. The unknown force is what happened to you and it's perfectly appropriate for these feelings to be coming up. They have been quiet for too long.
Thinking of you,
Annie
Posted by Dinah on October 31, 2007, at 17:42:40
In reply to Blurting, posted by DAisym on October 30, 2007, at 19:04:30
I was going to say that I can't imagine expressing anger in an angry way to my therapist, when I realized that that statement is ridiculous.
After all, I'm the one who called him and as he answered screamed that he was a "sh*t faced b*st*rd" before hanging up with as much of a slam as I could manage on a cell phone. He still teases me about that.
Mind you, he really deserved that in context.
But I also remember that I used to get angry with him a lot, and call and tell him so, then learned to say so in session as it happened.
But short of the sort of behavior that earned him the angry phone call, it is true that I can't at the moment imagine expressing anger to him in an angry way. I can and do tell him politely when he does something that makes me angry. But my approach rarely varies from the attitude I ordinarily take with him. Nonconfrontational.
I think I *am* afraid of hurting him, but not by angry words. He's not likely to be hurt by my angry words. I don't really think that I'm afraid he'll be angry with me. He does get angry with me, not usually in response to my anger, but often enough that I know that his anger doesn't last and won't hurt our relationship in the long run.
I think it's more likely that I'm afraid my anger can hurt our relationship on my end.
I think mainly that our relationship currently has a form that would find anger out of place. I don't know if I can explain that properly. I always visualize sessions as they approach, and lately I've been visualizing myself as a kitten butting my head against his hand in an attempt to gain an ear scritch. Hissing and scratching wouldn't feel right.
Maybe it's time in your relationship to let him see your anger? And maybe it's hard to let him see that because it isn't how you want him to see you? But maybe that's why you're supposed to show him that side of you?
Just a thought. But it always seems to me that our relationship goes through phases. And in the absence of outside influences that intrude, those phases usually have a purpose. Maybe this too has a purpose?
Posted by fallsfall on October 31, 2007, at 20:36:05
In reply to Re: Blurting -- trigger, posted by Daisym on October 31, 2007, at 0:14:50
Do tell him what you are thinking. You can say "This isn't really directed at you, but...". Then he knows that you know that the anger is old anger, and he is just conveniently there. Letting him know what the thoughts are can help you understand where they come from.
Do you realize that you said: "I want to scream at my abuser". That is SO good.
(((Daisy)))
Love,
Falls
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