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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Poet on October 7, 2007, at 13:36:18
In reply to What is the silver lining of child abuse?, posted by happyflower on October 7, 2007, at 10:52:23
Hi Happyflower,
I think the silver lining is finally being able to let the secret out. I am struggling with this in therapy right now, it's like I should be able to trust my T with everything and anything, but that little kid in me says don't trust anyone with that big secret.
Poet
Posted by happyflower on October 7, 2007, at 14:03:34
In reply to Re: What is the silver lining of child abuse? » happyflower, posted by Dory on October 7, 2007, at 11:22:21
Hey Dory,
How is that paper coming along? ;-) Thanks for writing what you think, it is helpful to me.
I guess I thinking along the line that something a lot of the best of poets, musicans, and artists do have a lot in common and one is that they have a history of abuse growing up. The silver lining would be their work. But who knows maybe they could have produced the same work if they were not abused.
Thank goodness this isn't a research paper, lol, I only have to present one side of the arguement and use the story for evidence.
My T and I were talking about life's tramatic things, and how something good does come out of it ususally if you look . He said the 3 most traumatic things that has ever happened to him, he would never take back if he could live over again because there was a silver lining.So it got me thinking about my own past and how it changed me and how maybe there are results (good and bad) that helped me develop into the who I am today. I do see a certain about of strengh that surviors have. Good luck on your paper Dory, wanna switch?
Posted by Dory on October 7, 2007, at 14:04:03
In reply to Re: What is the silver lining of child abuse? » happyflower, posted by sunnydays on October 7, 2007, at 13:10:57
Posted by vwoolf on October 7, 2007, at 14:04:38
In reply to Re: What is the silver lining of child abuse? » happyflower, posted by Poet on October 7, 2007, at 13:36:18
What a very interesting discussion. Sometimes I think I am more creative because of it. Stronger. More resilient.
But maybe I would have been even stronger and creative and resilient without it.
It certainly has made my life very difficult and painful and dark. If I had my life again, I might choose not to go through all these things again, especially the ect and hospitalisations. They were particularly hurtful.
But then I don't know. I am what I have been. Memory is identity. I can't really imagine it any other way.
Posted by happyflower on October 7, 2007, at 14:06:23
In reply to Re: OMG (nm) » happyflower, posted by annierose on October 7, 2007, at 12:08:11
Is there a problem? Without any explaination of "OMG", I am feeling rather judged and putdown.
Posted by muffled on October 7, 2007, at 14:07:08
In reply to Re: What is the silver lining of child abuse? » happyflower, posted by Poet on October 7, 2007, at 13:36:18
Maybe, sadly.
having had trauma, makes us better able to understand and help others with their trauma, cuz its part of this world....
Maybe we can deal w/harder situ cuz we can dissociate...
Maybe for the military, it gives us the rage that makes it possible to kill another human being...
I dunno, mebbe HF you can ask what they trying to get at? Cuz i find this a little bizzarre...
Sorta like saying:
Whats the silver lining of the fact (NOT) that i belted my son in the face today....is the silver lining that he didn't lose a tooth? Or that he held in his tears, or that he didn't tell.....?????? What could possibly be the siver lining in such a scenario?
I am interested to hear T's take on this....
M
Posted by happyflower on October 7, 2007, at 14:11:33
In reply to Re: What is the silver lining of child abuse? » happyflower, posted by Dinah on October 7, 2007, at 12:18:18
Hi Dinah,
I see what you are saying. I am just thinking that going through those profound circumstances
, does do something to you and maybe all the results are not always negative. I don't know for sure. It is something I am discussing in therapy.
I guess since I can't change the past, it would be better to see some postive aspect of it all (a silver lining)
then to just see all negative. Just thinking outloud........
Posted by happyflower on October 7, 2007, at 14:15:01
In reply to silver lining of child abuse?**Trigger***, posted by muffled on October 7, 2007, at 14:07:08
I believe my T was seeing what you said first, that me going through various traumatic things, will help me have a sensitivity to deal with others who have experienced it too. Beause I understand how it feels. I'm sorry to
have upset you.
Posted by rskontos on October 7, 2007, at 14:15:51
In reply to silver lining of child abuse?**Trigger***, posted by muffled on October 7, 2007, at 14:07:08
Happyflower, as I just found out about the the sa, it is still very raw for me, I will just quietly say that since I also just found out about my voices, I know that they saved me from probably death or insanity then that is the silverlining. But the abused I would have rather not had quite frankly. For now, it is still a repressed memory and may always be but, the "people" I have found inside who know the truth that have been my saving grace are my silverlining and I know from my T that it is a gift for this to happen but the pain and dark side you go through makes that hard to see and it is the abuse plus the abandonment and everything else that creates it in a small child. So for me, it is difficult to see. Maybe at the end of journey, it is just beginning, I might feel differently, but you must write the paper now. Good luck....rk
Posted by Dory on October 7, 2007, at 14:17:44
In reply to What is the silver lining of child abuse?, posted by happyflower on October 7, 2007, at 10:52:23
one thought HF... you could write your paper looking at both ways of thinking.. your own ideas about what you feel came of it for you, and maybe exploring some of the things expressed here. In the end it all comes down to personal belief.
i do believe, and someone can correct me if i am wrong, but it's appropriate and accepted to use "victim" statements and case studies as appendices. i would certainly be happy to give you my own if you wanted it. You don't have to though.
an interesting side story about that idea though.. a gal from the uni i originally attended wanted to become a social worker for abused kids/teens. She wrote a paper for a class and did what i said above ***except** she didn't identify it as a case study.. the prof thought it was a self-admission of abusing a teen. Instead of contacting authorities or confronting the student, she went to the dept chair and together they identified the student to children's services as a potential abuser. SHe was red-flagged in the system. Trouble is, no one told her. SHe did not gain admission to the school of social work and could not get a job doing anything near what she wanted. Letters were being sent here and there preventing her from getting into programs, etc. At some point someone noticed she was living with her long-term boyfriend and his kids, so they contacted him privately to tell him. That's how she found out!
anyways, it ended up in a huge lawsuit (go figure) and it went into appeals, etc because the uni didn't want to own up to ruining this gal's life. SHe got a million dollars in the end but totally not worth it imo.
so moral is : double check your source credits. yikes.
Posted by happyflower on October 7, 2007, at 14:19:07
In reply to Re: What is the silver lining of child abuse?, posted by vwoolf on October 7, 2007, at 14:04:38
Thanks vwoolf,
You comments are what I am thinking about in respects to my own childhood abuse. Am I stronger, more creative?
If I didn't go through what I did , would I have been less stronger or more, less creative or more? I guess there is no way to know really. But going through what we did, did have a profound result. I am just wondering if it is all negative ( I know mostly negative), but is there a strengh that we gained because of it?
Posted by happyflower on October 7, 2007, at 14:23:25
In reply to Re: What is the silver lining of child abuse? » happyflower, posted by sunnydays on October 7, 2007, at 13:10:57
Thanks SD,
Your comments helped me. Maybe the topic is too hard to come up with for my paper.
My other choice was with Bennehiem saying that children make up the stories of abuse because they are projecting themselves onto their parents. I didn't want to write about that because I believe his Freudian view is what kept children from reaching out for help for decades because people thought they were making it all up.
So maybe I can come up with another idea, this is so hard.
Posted by happyflower on October 7, 2007, at 14:30:35
In reply to Re: What is the silver lining of child abuse? » happyflower, posted by Dory on October 7, 2007, at 14:17:44
WOw that is scary what happened to that girl!
I would love to do both arguements, but we have to choose one view point since the paper is only 4-5 pages. Plus I don't want to use my personal history to make the arguement, I just want to use the story of Hansel. I have to connect 2 texts, once being the Grimms story and the other either Maria Tatar essay or Bettleheims. I don't care for either one, but at least Tatar's version does belief the story was written about child abuse. Bettleheims's essay is about how children just make it all up in their daydreams.
Posted by happyflower on October 7, 2007, at 14:36:33
In reply to silver lining of child abuse?**Trigger***, posted by muffled on October 7, 2007, at 14:07:08
Maybe the silver lining in your about example of using your son was that you DIDN"T hit him because you know how it feels. I dont' know if you were abused or not as a child , but sometimes the cycle continues, but in your case it didn't .
Posted by Dory on October 7, 2007, at 14:40:21
In reply to Re: OMG » annierose, posted by happyflower on October 7, 2007, at 14:06:23
> Is there a problem? Without any explaination of "OMG", I am feeling rather judged and putdown.
yeah, me too, but for the opposite reason.. either way it feels like somebody supposedly said something wrong.. it thought it was me
Posted by Dory on October 7, 2007, at 14:43:54
In reply to Re: What is the silver lining of child abuse? » Dory, posted by happyflower on October 7, 2007, at 14:03:34
Posted by happyflower on October 7, 2007, at 14:45:41
In reply to What is the silver lining of child abuse?, posted by happyflower on October 7, 2007, at 10:52:23
It has me thinking why are most T's victims of some sort? Doesn't what happened to them give them the desire to help others?
My T said the other day that the best therapist are the ones who were f*ck*d up at one time or another in their lives.
Just knowing people here, it seems most of have a sensitivity that others in real life seem to be missing. It seems we all are here because of a common reason, doesn't that say something? Who is more likely to understand babble or outside person?
I know I would love to not have the abuse I have had happen to me too, but it did and I can't change that fact. But I can change how I look at it or my own mental health. I know abuse is very bad, but somehow I think I am a stronger person because of it. Now I don't think I would have felt this way 2 years ago when I was suffering with PTSD because of it. I feel I am in a different place now and can look at it differently. Sure I wish it didnt' happen, but it did. But I refuse for it to win over me.
Posted by happyflower on October 7, 2007, at 14:54:18
In reply to Re: What is the silver lining of child abuse? » happyflower, posted by Phillipa on October 7, 2007, at 13:07:43
If you take a look at the story again as an adult, those fairy tales are very scary indeed!
Actually what happened was that the family was starving, so the mother convince the father that they must take Hansel and Gretel out into the woods and leave them there, so there would be enough to eat. Yikes! And this really has happened though out history. Then the evil witch entices them with the gingerbread house, to lure them in , so she can trap them, fatten them up and eat them. Kinda sick story. I am glad I didn't read thoe to my kids.
Posted by happyflower on October 7, 2007, at 15:06:34
In reply to yes!!! you take Pierre Bourdieu, he sucks (nm) » happyflower, posted by Dory on October 7, 2007, at 14:43:54
LOL, I guess we could switch... The only thing I remember about him was that he compared people's social class to what kind of music they listen to. Don't know if that is the topic, but I guess it isn't . lol Good luck, when is it due?
Posted by Dinah on October 7, 2007, at 15:41:41
In reply to Re: What is the silver lining of child abuse? » sunnydays, posted by happyflower on October 7, 2007, at 14:23:25
Are you saying that your two choices were to find a silver lining in child abuse, or to argue that child abuse is the child's invention?
That doesn't sound in keeping with what I understand is being taught about child abuse in universities today, so I'm a bit surprised.
I suppose there is a difference between trying to come up with positive aspects to something that has already happened to someone, and saying that very negative behaviors have silver linings. The latter seems almost to be saying that it isn't all bad because something good comes out of it. I think that goes a bit far for child abuse. Yeah, there are kids who make it through, but there are lots of kids that don't. Not all Hansels and Gretels make it out of the forest.
But if you've experienced anything, no matter how horrific, and come through to the other side, it can be said that you learned something valuable from making it through. People who almost die often find a new purpose to life. People who have lost a loved one to violence often dedicate themselves to making sure it doesn't happen again.
I guess I don't see a silver lining in violent death or near death experience. The good comes out of what people make of their experiences, not the experience itself.
Posted by Dory on October 7, 2007, at 16:32:28
In reply to Re: yes!!! you take Pierre Bourdieu, he sucks » Dory, posted by happyflower on October 7, 2007, at 15:06:34
social class and taste actually, applying to music, yes, but to all other symbols of taste or "breeding."
It was due on Friday but i have an extension. i have to deal with the opinions of critics as well.. at least four of them have to be considered and placed within the context of their political orientation. Same for the biblio.. ordered and grouped by school of thought, etc.
Posted by annierose on October 7, 2007, at 16:45:29
In reply to Re: What is the silver lining of child abuse? » happyflower, posted by Dinah on October 7, 2007, at 15:41:41
Very well put.
Posted by Dory on October 7, 2007, at 16:57:19
In reply to Re: What is the silver lining of child abuse? » happyflower, posted by Dinah on October 7, 2007, at 15:41:41
"Not all Hansels and Gretels make it out of the forest."
yeah... wasn't witchy's first child-pie attempt if i recall..
so.. what of all the people who don't make lemonade? Is the silver lining individual? i would say that in many cases it breaks down functioning. Abusees often become abusers. What happens when creative people like Bing Crosby turn out to be horrid child abusers? i'm just throwing it out there..
i do like and agree with your ideas dinah, about what someone does with their life experiences rather than what the experiences are. Very well articulated.
Is "making the best of it" the same as "something good coming of it?"
Posted by happyflower on October 7, 2007, at 17:12:16
In reply to Re: What is the silver lining of child abuse? » happyflower, posted by Dinah on October 7, 2007, at 15:41:41
There are other views to take for this assignment, but we have to use these so called experts. One believes in the silver lining, the other that it is all in the child's imagination, and the other one is from a femenist expert on how women in fairy tales are portrayed negatively of women. I can either agree with them or disagree with them,but I have to use the story of Hansel and Gretel to prove my view I am wanting to make.
This isn't a class about child abuse, it is a writing class, where it is their job to get us to stretch our minds and think of an aspect and write about it. The so called expert in my book do show that child abuse is hard to prove in sociiety because society doesn't want to beleive it. But those of us who have been there, know the truth.
I really wasn't trying to upset anyone, I know child abuse is so wrong, and I was having trouble coming up with a silver lining in my own life.You said: I guess I don't see a silver lining in violent death or near death experience. The good comes out of what people make of their experiences, not the experience itself.
But what I am wondering is if the experience is what made the person take the initiative in making the most out of it. Does that make any sense?
I guess this assignment is getting me to do what it was suppose to do, think about these situations. My T does believe in making the most out of things, so maybe that is why he believes in the silver lining. He doesn't belive child abuse is good either, it would be better to have no child abuse and no silver lining, as opposed to the opposite, but the reality is that child abuse is more rampant than we want to believe. IT is a hard topic to write about and think about.
Posted by seldomseen on October 7, 2007, at 18:50:35
In reply to What is the silver lining of child abuse?, posted by happyflower on October 7, 2007, at 10:52:23
Yeah, I've spent a lot of time trying to find the silver lining of the abuse I experienced as a child.
On balance, I would rather it not have happened, but it has given me a deep sense of empathy and overwhelming sense of gratitude at just being alive.
It's weird but lately, rather than feeling so flawed or damaged, it has been giving me a real sense of invincibility. It's almost like I know that if I can live through that and come out with some semblance of sanity, then there really isn't much else life can through at me that I can't handle. Yeah, I get thrown for a loop sometimes, but really, what I deal with now is NOTHING compared to what I survived as a child.
I've been in therapy for years and it has taken every bit of it to get to this point.
But that's my take on it.
Seldom.
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