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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sunnydays on June 8, 2007, at 21:21:26
Do any of you find it hard to leave your T's office at the end of the session? I was so so sad to have to leave today - I actually started crying. I kind of thought I was in trouble when I was leaving because he brought up something at the end about medication which freaked me out a little. But I'm not in trouble about that and I know it. But I still was crying when I got home.
I just look in my T's eyes (which is very new lately, I used to hardly ever look at him) and I just wish I could fall into them and be part of his life. I wish he could be my parent and take care of me all the time. I told him today, "How about I not leave and I'll just sit right here (pointing to the corner by the couch) and no one will see me." He kind of laughed (it was a really affectionate sound, so I didn't feel laughed at) and just said, "I know leaving's really hard for you. But I'll be right here when you come back." And I cried some, and then I managed to pull it together and leave. Had to stop part way down the hall and just stand a second and take a deep breath before I had to pass the waiting room and the receptionist, because I hate not looking pulled together. I think my T was behind me in the hall, but I'm not sure.
Anyway, does anyone else find it hard to leave sometimes? And what do you do to lessen the emotional pain of being separated until your next session? I'm thinking I might call and leave him a message to say I miss him. I just want to tell him everything about my life. I want to tell him I saw a rainbow this afternoon that was really pretty.
Why can't I just live with him? Then I wouldn't have this problem. I wrote him an email and told him I missed him and I sort of was checking to see that I didn't have to leave because he didn't like me, that was just how it went, right. And he wrote back and said that nothing I was saying was dumb. And that me leaving has nothing to do with him not liking me, because of course he likes me. I feel so bad that I'm so insecure all the time and need so much reassurance.
Anyway, thoughts anyone?
sunnydays
Posted by DAisym on June 8, 2007, at 23:00:38
In reply to hard to leave..., posted by sunnydays on June 8, 2007, at 21:21:26
It is sometimes very hard to leave...that flood of emotions is so strong! Taking deep breathes is the best thing to do and know he will, indeed, be there when you come back.
This eases off eventually...and then flares up again from time to time. It is so painful though, I'm sorry.
Posted by OzLand on June 8, 2007, at 23:15:56
In reply to Re: hard to leave..., posted by DAisym on June 8, 2007, at 23:00:38
As painful as it is, this is really a good sign that you feel so attached to your T. It is not stupid or anything like that to feel you would like to go live with your T, and it sounds like he handled it well in spite of the pain. This is a huge step to recognize, and your therapist is letting you know he believes in you and your strenghts and will be there waiting when you return.
Posted by Honore on June 9, 2007, at 0:02:35
In reply to Re: hard to leave..., posted by OzLand on June 8, 2007, at 23:15:56
I used to feel that way, too-- but I never found any way of getting past the feeling, so I just had to put up with it. My T used to tell me when it was near the end of the appointment-- I guess because if we stopped too abruptly, it made it harder.
I guess emailing helped some-- I used to send him emails especially on weekends. Otherwise, listening to his voice on his answering machine, or a recording I found of him giving a lecture helped-- sometimes at night.
It might take time, but eventually it'll get easier; it has for me. Although a lot of that is having anti-depressants-- after taking them for a while, it was better, and now even without them, I don't feel the same horrible feeling at the end.
Knowing that he's there, and believing in the depth of the relationship, even if it's limited in time and space, makes a difference-- because it's not leaving in the same way, if someone stays with you emotionally.
Honore
Posted by peddidle on June 9, 2007, at 0:24:00
In reply to hard to leave..., posted by sunnydays on June 8, 2007, at 21:21:26
All the time!!
I always find myself kind of half consciously/half subconsciously stalling at the end of a session. I'll take even longer than usual to answer a simple question, or I start to look extra upset. I don't know if it's because I'm so upset about leaving, or because I'm trying to make her think that I need to stay longer. Maybe a little of both. Either way, my T is wonderful. Sometimes I genuinely need to stay longer and she's fine with that-- I was the last appointment of the day last semester, so it usually wasn't a problem... there was only one time when I felt really bad about it because she had already said at the beginning that she needed to end early, and then she kind of had to keep telling me that I had to go. That was the only time that happened though, so I'm sure it was a unique circumstance.
It sounds like your T handles the situation well, too. I admire you for being able to tell him that you have difficulty leaving. I'm sure my T knows that I have that problem, but I can't imagine actually saying it.
I know how odd it feels when your T is standing behind you. My T would often walk out with me on her way to the bathroom. I don't know why it's awkward, but as comfortable as we feel with our T's during the session, it feels weird to interact with them outside of that room, even if we're just in the doorway. Then again, maybe that's just me and my insecurities.
As far as making it less painful in between sessions, the only thing I know is that the longer I go without seeing my T, the less painful it becomes. I'm kind of supposed to be emailing my T over the summer, but I'm trying to hold out for a few weeks (it's been two so far). When I email her, I basically feel compelled to sit at my computer all day and wait for a reply. The last session before a break is always the worst, because I know I won't see her for so long, but it gets a little easier with each passing week. Then, of course, it starts right back up again the next time I see her. I'm not suggesting that you stop seeing your T weekly (believe me, I still miss my T and I wish I could see her over the summer), but I'm just letting you know that you're not alone, and it'll get better.
Actually, that was probably pretty useless and obvious advice.
If you find something that works for that weekly longing, let me know!
Posted by sunnydays on June 9, 2007, at 11:00:13
In reply to Re: hard to leave..., posted by DAisym on June 8, 2007, at 23:00:38
Yeah, it does flare up once in a while. Sometimes I'm absolutely fine leaving, no problem, and then others I have to force myself to get off the couch and walk through the door because I want to throw a fit and beg to stay or I'm just too sad to move. Deep breaths definitely seem to be the only way to get myself out of there.
sunnydays
Posted by sunnydays on June 9, 2007, at 11:02:28
In reply to Re: hard to leave..., posted by OzLand on June 8, 2007, at 23:15:56
I mean, I know theoretically it's good to be attached, but I just don't understand why. It feels so painful in the moment that it doesn't seem like it could possibly be good. I know it's what lets us go so deep and what lets me even be able to talk at all, but boy is it hard sometimes!
sunnydays
Posted by sunnydays on June 9, 2007, at 11:08:55
In reply to Re: hard to leave..., posted by Honore on June 9, 2007, at 0:02:35
> I used to feel that way, too-- but I never found any way of getting past the feeling, so I just had to put up with it. My T used to tell me when it was near the end of the appointment-- I guess because if we stopped too abruptly, it made it harder.
**** Yeah, definitely. It's so so so hard when he forgets to give some sort of warning and it's just "Bang - session's over." (although obviously he doesn't say that). He usually says a little bit before either, "Is it ok if we shift gears now?" and then we talk about my plans for the weekend or some other lighter thing if it's one of the days when I can leave fine - otherwise I start crying and I have to force myself to leave. Or he'll say "We only have a couple minutes left." Not sure which I prefer.
>
> I guess emailing helped some-- I used to send him emails especially on weekends. Otherwise, listening to his voice on his answering machine, or a recording I found of him giving a lecture helped-- sometimes at night.
>**** Yeah, emailing definitely helps. I called and left a message just to say I miss him last night. I do the listening to his voice on the answering machine thing too.
> It might take time, but eventually it'll get easier; it has for me. Although a lot of that is having anti-depressants-- after taking them for a while, it was better, and now even without them, I don't feel the same horrible feeling at the end.
**** They definitely didn't help me with that! I think for me it has just been getting to trust that my T is still there that has helped.
>
> Knowing that he's there, and believing in the depth of the relationship, even if it's limited in time and space, makes a difference-- because it's not leaving in the same way, if someone stays with you emotionally.**** Yeah, we have talked about that and how he's still there and we're still connected even if we're not in the same room. That works sometimes to calm me a little, but sometimes I think how can we possibly be connected if he's probably not even thinking about me and just going about his day?
sunnydays
Posted by sunnydays on June 9, 2007, at 11:14:34
In reply to Re: hard to leave..., posted by peddidle on June 9, 2007, at 0:24:00
> I always find myself kind of half consciously/half subconsciously stalling at the end of a session. I'll take even longer than usual to answer a simple question, or I start to look extra upset. I don't know if it's because I'm so upset about leaving, or because I'm trying to make her think that I need to stay longer. Maybe a little of both. Either way, my T is wonderful.
**** Yeah, sometimes I feel like I'm doing that too. Sometimes I can just tell without looking at the clock that the session's about to end and I tense up - he caught that happening the other day, which was nice because we could talk about it a little. But I guess it doesn't matter if we're just appearing upset to stay longer or if we 'really' are that upset - because either way we are upset about leaving.
> It sounds like your T handles the situation well, too. I admire you for being able to tell him that you have difficulty leaving. I'm sure my T knows that I have that problem, but I can't imagine actually saying it.
**** I couldn't either for a long time, but then I just had to one day.
>
> As far as making it less painful in between sessions, the only thing I know is that the longer I go without seeing my T, the less painful it becomes.**** Yeah, that happens with me too if I'm on break for a long time or something.
I'm kind of supposed to be emailing my T over the summer, but I'm trying to hold out for a few weeks (it's been two so far). When I email her, I basically feel compelled to sit at my computer all day and wait for a reply.
*** I know that feeling too, although I email him so much that I've gotten much better about that and it doesn't really happen with me anymore.
I'm not suggesting that you stop seeing your T weekly (believe me, I still miss my T and I wish I could see her over the summer), but I'm just letting you know that you're not alone, and it'll get better.
**** Thanks pediddle. I actually see my T biweekly, so I feel really weird that I react so strongly when it's less than a week until I see him again.
>
> Actually, that was probably pretty useless and obvious advice.**** Not at all. It helps to know other people's experiences.
> If you find something that works for that weekly longing, let me know!
*** definitely!
sunnydays
Posted by Honore on June 9, 2007, at 12:42:06
In reply to Re: hard to leave..., posted by sunnydays on June 9, 2007, at 11:08:55
I had thoughts about his not thinking about me-- how nothing really mattered--that it was mostly me deluding,. I had so many terrible thoughts that would flood into my mind and destroy whatever connection was built up during the time tegether that was good.
I honestly can't say why the thoughts started to diminish. For one thing, we talked about this-- that while the relationship had limitations-- like only being together for certain defined hours,-- and all that. He would say that all relationships are limited. It's not as if he spends ten hours a day with his family, or has the most profound and meaningful conversations day in and day out. Those conversations are occasional-- and ours were distilled, capturing the essence, even though the time seemed short. He would say that the way he is with his family isn't necessarily deeper or better than how he was with me.
It was kind of just coming to believe that that was true-- that relationships have a metaphysical aspect that can be deep or intense, in a way that isn't defined in hours or places. That may be the most important thing. Not only that he thinks of me, thinking of him, and I can think of him thinking of me-- but that all any two people can have together-- is the time they have, and what they make of it, which is limited in some ways, and not in others. That's what people carry with them-- not the actual other person, who is often somewhere else, doing other things. That thought really meant (and means) a lot to me.
It's an unconscious process but I found that I wasn't devastated on weekends-- mostly because the good experiences and the way he was with me made his words seem real-- not just empty promises or empty reassurance.
I feel pretty sure that you'll come to feel a strong enough sense of your T's presence to hold strong, even as you close the door and go down the street, or are alone on weekend-- it takes time, but it answers your fears and sense of abandonment: so that you won't forget him, and will know, without questioning it, that he can't forget you, because you've become a real part of his world.
Honore
Posted by Dory on June 9, 2007, at 18:41:35
In reply to hard to leave..., posted by sunnydays on June 8, 2007, at 21:21:26
Hi Sunny, i'm sorry it's so hard for you at the end and between sessions. i feel sad that it is that way but i am also puzzled and curious about it. i am wondering if it is so overpowering because you seem him as a parent. When i had a strong romantic sort of transfernce for my former T i found being apart harder than i do now with my new T. i am curious about the pain of separation in relation to the type of bond or transference one has. i hope this isn't side-tracking your thread.
Posted by OzLand on June 9, 2007, at 21:14:08
In reply to Re: hard to leave... » OzLand, posted by sunnydays on June 9, 2007, at 11:02:28
> I mean, I know theoretically it's good to be attached, but I just don't understand why. It feels so painful in the moment that it doesn't seem like it could possibly be good. I know it's what lets us go so deep and what lets me even be able to talk at all, but boy is it hard sometimes!
>
> sunnydaysI agree with Honore wholeheartedly. To answer your question above, well we can't really experience deep joy without also knowing about deep pain as they relate to relationships. It is good because you will be able to take away a sense of your T as who he is, and you will begin to see that you are a whole person who can handle both intimacy and pain.
I am cheering for you as I try to accomplish something akin to this in my analysis.
I am so afraid of letting anyone get to know me and have never really felt close to anyone. Intimacy scares the hell out of me; unfortunately, pain and loneliness have been old friends. I am really scared to let him know me as it will mean intimacy on a different level. I had a therapist some 25 years ago who I saw as a father, and when he went away on vacation for 4 weeks, I did not think I would make it. Over time, I could feel myself getting stronger, and I could keep him in mind even when he was gone. It does happen.
My fear now with my new therapist/analysit is having sexual feelings for him. We meet twice per week, and I have met with him for one month now. He is so good looking and seems to be able to read my mind. Not really, but he asked me if I was afraid of having sexual feelings for him (we are pretty much the same age), and I can't believe I said yes. I was so embarrased. But it is what it is as they say.
Take care, and hang in there, sunnydays.
Posted by sunnydays on June 9, 2007, at 21:40:34
In reply to Re: hard to leave... » sunnydays, posted by Honore on June 9, 2007, at 12:42:06
> I had thoughts about his not thinking about me-- how nothing really mattered--that it was mostly me deluding,. I had so many terrible thoughts that would flood into my mind and destroy whatever connection was built up during the time tegether that was good.
**** For me I'm not sure if it destroys the connection. It just makes me feel so desperate because I feel this pull towards him so strongly and when I'm alone there's no one to reach for. I don't have very many friends who are around this summer, and my parents aren't people I can talk to. So I just write to him and wait and wait. Don't you hate it when it feels like the only thing you did between sessions was wait for the next one to come around?
He would say that the way he is with his family isn't necessarily deeper or better than how he was with me.
**** Yeah - whenever I say I want to live with my T he says something like, "Well, I have a couple people that would tell you it's not all it's cracked up to be! But I understand that it's easy to imagine that you'd have my full attention all the time and I'd never get frustrated and it would be like it is in here." I liked how he said that. Because it's absolutely true that it wouldn't be the same, but it really showed that he understood what it was that I wanted.
That's what people carry with them-- not the actual other person, who is often somewhere else, doing other things. That thought really meant (and means) a lot to me.
***** Yeah, I had a similar thought once that helps me. I think of it like this - even if absolutely nothing else, I am a physical part of my T. He has a memory of me, and that is somehow encoded chemically in his brain, so that I am literally a part of him and he is a part of me. And that shows how much of a science major I am, but that helps me. And he is also in my spirit, too, I can feel it sometimes.
>
> It's an unconscious process but I found that I wasn't devastated on weekends-- mostly because the good experiences and the way he was with me made his words seem real-- not just empty promises or empty reassurance.**** Yeah - I don't spend the weekends devastated, it's just the walking out the door and the next few hours that are the most difficult.
Thank you so much Honore.
sunnydays
Posted by sunnydays on June 9, 2007, at 21:42:04
In reply to Re: hard to leave..., posted by Dory on June 9, 2007, at 18:41:35
> Hi Sunny, i'm sorry it's so hard for you at the end and between sessions. i feel sad that it is that way but i am also puzzled and curious about it. i am wondering if it is so overpowering because you seem him as a parent. When i had a strong romantic sort of transfernce for my former T i found being apart harder than i do now with my new T. i am curious about the pain of separation in relation to the type of bond or transference one has. i hope this isn't side-tracking your thread.
**** Not a side-track at all. I have no idea why it's so difficult sometimes and not others. I do think it's harder when I'm in a more little-girl place than when I'm feeling more adult. The little girl just wants to be taken care of and doesn't like feeling like she's being sent away.sunnydays
Posted by sunnydays on June 9, 2007, at 21:49:10
In reply to Re: hard to leave... » sunnydays, posted by OzLand on June 9, 2007, at 21:14:08
> I agree with Honore wholeheartedly. To answer your question above, well we can't really experience deep joy without also knowing about deep pain as they relate to relationships. It is good because you will be able to take away a sense of your T as who he is, and you will begin to see that you are a whole person who can handle both intimacy and pain.
***** That's a good point. I have serious issues with trust, and so I guess being attached shows I trust my T somewhat, although I still question that trust all the time. I feel bad about that and get worried that he's going to get sick of me or angry if I can't hurry up and trust him soon.
> I am so afraid of letting anyone get to know me and have never really felt close to anyone.**** Same here. It's so hard to say anything deeply personal about myself, even to my therapist. And I discovered last session that I can't say things sometimes even in session if I can't trust myself not to cry.
Intimacy scares the hell out of me; unfortunately, pain and loneliness have been old friends. I am really scared to let him know me as it will mean intimacy on a different level.
**** Yep. My T keeps telling me sadness has been my old friend and that's why I have to try to not let it be there all the time.
I had a therapist some 25 years ago who I saw as a father, and when he went away on vacation for 4 weeks, I did not think I would make it. Over time, I could feel myself getting stronger, and I could keep him in mind even when he was gone. It does happen.
**** Yeah. I've been able to do that some. It's just something I'd rather not do (as in I'd rather he never left and I never had to leave) :P
>
> My fear now with my new therapist/analysit is having sexual feelings for him. We meet twice per week, and I have met with him for one month now. He is so good looking and seems to be able to read my mind. Not really, but he asked me if I was afraid of having sexual feelings for him (we are pretty much the same age), and I can't believe I said yes. I was so embarrased. But it is what it is as they say.
>**** I bet that would be embarrassing. It was so so hard for me the first time that I told my T I loved him. He was great with it, and he knew I meant as a parent because some time before that I had said that I wished he was my parent. But it's hard to talk about these things.
> Take care, and hang in there, sunnydays.
>
>Thank you,
sunnydays
Posted by OzLand on June 10, 2007, at 22:44:37
In reply to Re: hard to leave..., posted by sunnydays on June 9, 2007, at 21:49:10
I have been thinking more about this whole issue, and my old therapist was like a father to me in many ways, "the good father." I ended therapy with him in 1994, and it was not all that painful. I recall thinking how odd, but I think I was ready to move on with my life and become "emancipated from home" so to speak. Over th course of the next six or seven years, I saw him when I would return to the place and city where he was. We would speak briefly, and then it was always my intention to make an appointment with him so that we could have time to really talk. I am sorry that I never did. He died in the fall of 2004, and I did not learn of this until around December 2004. I was so upset even though I had not worked with him since I was much younger.
I am now working with a new person, and I think about what I learned from before those many years ago when I was so much younger. I remember how I heard that a person does the work they can do, and it is okay if the person doesn't finish the work he or she needs to do. One can always come back and continue the work at a later date. I am not able to go back to my old therapist, but I have a new one now who is fantastic, and after only eight sessions, I know somehow I will be able to continue the work I aborted before. Even my husband notices the difference in me now. Why did I abort the work before? Well I was doing quite well and thought I didn't need to address certain things. My therapist then would chuckle at such comments just as my new one does when I give some lame rationalization. It feels good to know I can now do that piece of work, and yet I know too that when I die, that not all the work will be done. I hope I can continue to grow and change until the day I die. It is what life is all about after all.
Posted by muffled on June 11, 2007, at 22:30:19
In reply to Re: hard to leave..., posted by sunnydays on June 9, 2007, at 21:49:10
This is the end of the thread.
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